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Autologous Blood Injection: Acne Scar Repair Via Hyperplasia, Peripheral Stem Cells Deposition, Differentiation & ECM Growth Within Ensuing Haematoma

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#41 joedude

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 08:45 AM

I have had good results with fat injections. My PS did a good job of injection and I've had two rounds of injections. The fat was taken from my butt. My PS did make sure theat the injected fat did not make a scar bulge near my cheekbone.

I think one third of the fat lived. It's difficult to say because I'm not sure what volume he injected and how much was due to swelling from the novocaine. It was very unconfortable both the harvesting from my butt and the pumping the fat into my face. I am not squeamish, but it was gross. I looked freakish for the first couple days. There was not much bruising though. He used a smaller canula tip for injecting under my eyes to create very small fat fragments and then used a different tip to plump up with larger-sized fat globs along the cheekbone. He was definitely organized in his methods. I'd say my results are excellent, and I think I look younger. I am planning to have Total FX in the fall to fix some texture problems on my skin.

I'd always rather have autologous products injected as filler rather than artificial substances.


QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jul 31 2008, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some good information here from an experienced and seemingly objective dermatologist:

http://aad2007.omnib...ers/FOC-807.pdf

Interesting academic article about Oral Topiramate for the improvement of acne scars (or for that matter all types of scars):

http://dermatology.c...ate/rakesh.html



#42 Weedman

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 11:06 AM

Bulgarian R. Dermatologist, your a good man smile.gif. Your the definion of what a doctor should be, that is a person that helps others get better not a money sucking parasite.




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Posted 01 August 2008 - 12:01 PM

the do u think of the science of saline injections?

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:53 PM

has anyone got their doc to do this, ?? can this be done by ourselves getting a syringe, getting blood out of vien and injecting in the scar?

#45 simon17777

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 04:37 AM

QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jul 30 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello bunnyoboy,

I suggest you stay away from permanent synthetic fillers. Dangerous stuff!

As for the blood injections, ask your doctor to carefully look at the studies conducted on blood injections. Blood injections have been used for all kinds of purposes. They have been used in inflammated tendons, injured muscles, etc ,..., and of course skin. Your doctor needs to understand the mechanisms of action, otherwise he likely won't believe in the treatment. If he does not, then he will also not take it seriously.

(A) There is a blood injection technique called the Bastille method. Herein blood is injected into the scar and used as a chromophore for a non-ablative laser and/or IPL device. The blood has to be precisely injected only where the hypotrophic scar exists. It then acts as a pigment which absorbs the light from the IPL and thereby heats up the coagulated blood (haematoma). This heat is contained inside the skin and will not cause the epidermis to be harmed. Think of the blood acting as a catcher for the light precisely in the area where its needed. In this way, the IPL will not heat up the healthy tissue nearly as much as it heats up the atrophied (and now temporarily pigmented) area in your skin. It's a beautiful technique when done properly, because its precision oriented. Doing the traditional non-ablative laser/IPL treatment is like carpet bombing in WWII, wherein the innocent civilians pay the price. The Bastille method is more like using guided missiles to only inflict damage on military targets, whereby civilians are spared obliteration.

Note of warning: Your doctor will have to try this with a very low setting on the IPL to see how your skin reacts. Never, and I do mean, NEVER, should he/she go high on the settings. I am not a believer in the 'one shot cure'. Also, get him to do this on one scar only, until he/she actually knows what they are doing. No need for heroics. Safety is always paramount.

(B) Another blood injection technique is to simply inject the blood into the scar tissue and let it sit there as a haematoma for a few days. I've already described this in detail. It is effective in slowly rebuilding the ECM. The procedure should be repeated every two to four weeks. Patience is important here, but you will see progressive results.

The use of technique (B) in-between treatments with technique (A) is encouraged. One technique complements the other.

My treatment plan:

-Do technique (B) first. Wait for haematoma to completely disappear. When this happens wait another two weeks before doing technique (A). After completing (A) wait two weeks and do (B) again. Repeat the cycle as needed...

Best of luck,

BRD


hi Bulgarian R. Dermatologist,
where can i extract my blood?
wouldn't the blood just get reabsorbed after the injection? like the saline injections.
how many treatments would it take to treat boxscars and rolling scars?
could i just do technique B? i cannot afford technique A.
would it still be effective?
thanks

#46 Tofu

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE (joedude @ Jul 31 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have had good results with fat injections. My PS did a good job of injection and I've had two rounds of injections. The fat was taken from my butt. My PS did make sure theat the injected fat did not make a scar bulge near my cheekbone.

I think one third of the fat lived. It's difficult to say because I'm not sure what volume he injected and how much was due to swelling from the novocaine. It was very unconfortable both the harvesting from my butt and the pumping the fat into my face. I am not squeamish, but it was gross. I looked freakish for the first couple days. There was not much bruising though. He used a smaller canula tip for injecting under my eyes to create very small fat fragments and then used a different tip to plump up with larger-sized fat globs along the cheekbone. He was definitely organized in his methods. I'd say my results are excellent, and I think I look younger. I am planning to have Total FX in the fall to fix some texture problems on my skin.

I'd always rather have autologous products injected as filler rather than artificial substances.


QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jul 31 2008, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some good information here from an experienced and seemingly objective dermatologist:

http://aad2007.omnib...ers/FOC-807.pdf

Interesting academic article about Oral Topiramate for the improvement of acne scars (or for that matter all types of scars):

http://dermatology.c...ate/rakesh.html



Hi Joedude,

Did ur doc inform u of any impact from laser treatments such as fraxel or total FX?Would it affect the injected fats in any way?


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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE (joedude @ Jul 31 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have had good results with fat injections. My PS did a good job of injection and I've had two rounds of injections. The fat was taken from my butt. My PS did make sure theat the injected fat did not make a scar bulge near my cheekbone.

I think one third of the fat lived. It's difficult to say because I'm not sure what volume he injected and how much was due to swelling from the novocaine. It was very unconfortable both the harvesting from my butt and the pumping the fat into my face. I am not squeamish, but it was gross. I looked freakish for the first couple days. There was not much bruising though. He used a smaller canula tip for injecting under my eyes to create very small fat fragments and then used a different tip to plump up with larger-sized fat globs along the cheekbone. He was definitely organized in his methods. I'd say my results are excellent, and I think I look younger. I am planning to have Total FX in the fall to fix some texture problems on my skin.

I'd always rather have autologous products injected as filler rather than artificial substances.


QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jul 31 2008, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some good information here from an experienced and seemingly objective dermatologist:

http://aad2007.omnib...ers/FOC-807.pdf

Interesting academic article about Oral Topiramate for the improvement of acne scars (or for that matter all types of scars):

http://dermatology.c...ate/rakesh.html




Hi joedude a follow up question. You said that you flew in for the precedure.. i was wondering how did u arrange for the doc to work on you. did u send him photos through email and enquired abotu fat transfer.. reason being is that i have to fly in also.


#48 christpunchers

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:07 PM

My current derm told me about an Australian doctor who injects blood into scars and is achieving great results. Perhaps this is one way for some of us to go.

#49 Foxclose

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE (christpunchers @ Aug 17 2008, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My current derm told me about an Australian doctor who injects blood into scars and is achieving great results. Perhaps this is one way for some of us to go.


I don't think I can find a derm that would do this nearby. If someone could write out a plan for self-injections, I would be grateful.

#50 christpunchers

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 09:20 PM

Basically a small amount of blood or saline is injected beneath the scar. Then the area shot (in the lightest mode) by a laser like IPL. I don't think it is possible to do a good job on your own. Better let a professional with enough confidence to give it a shot.

#51 drewboy

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 09:48 AM

QUOTE (Naitch @ Jul 16 2008, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
bullshit, if this method truly offered results everyone would be doing it. hogwash.


I was eating my breakfast reading through this thread when I came across this post. I almost spit up my coffee. I just knew this had to be posted by Naitch, and sure enough it was. If you look through my silicone thread this guy hasn't offered even a morsel of positivity, let alone had a nice thing to say too anyone. In my thread he claims Im a doctor trying to make $$, also said I am lying about my results and am blowing smoke up peoples ass.

Then to make matters even more hilarious, he posts about getting nosejobs, heating up acne so on and so on. I as well as Bulg derm are here to help everyone as much as the other guy, but this guy can be compared to Ebeneezer Scrooge. Talk about a downer when trying to help people by spending quality time typing out these threads.

Sorry , back on topic.

#52 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:13 PM

Hey Drewboy,

I know it can be frustrating when people communicate in an overly critical way. I get frustrated too. The thing is we all know what it's like to have to deal with acne scars and sometimes one just can't help but be angry. I talked to Naitch over PM and he is actually a very good guy. If you're up to it, I suggest you PM him. We're all very similar here because we share something very powerful and sometimes I forget what it was like living as teen with bad acne, followed by living as an adult with terrible acne scarring.

That said, WE have to completely eliminate acne scars because otherwise they have a very negative impact on a person's physical and psychological wellbeing. And we are close to beating them. As I've said before, we're going to win this war and the hard times that people have endured will only translate into making them kinder, stronger and indeed truly extraordinary people. Once the scars are wiped off the 'face' of the earth, all the former sufferers will look back on their ordeal as a gift. A gift that made them more aware of the beauty that is life than all those non-sufferers who were fed with silver spoons by way of their genetic bliss.

Best wishes... smile.gif

#53 Emhfali

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:08 PM

this senseless "encouraging" drivel doesn't work for any type of acne scar.
sry for my raw tone but we're all desperate and want to see results. i'm not here to read something like "once there is a solution", "in the future you'll have a healthy skin"..once once once..what's all this fuss about???


#54 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:18 PM

QUOTE (Emhfali @ Aug 20 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this senseless "encouraging" drivel doesn't work for any type of acne scar.
sry for my raw tone but we're all desperate and want to see results. i'm not here to read something like "once there is a solution", "in the future you'll have a healthy skin"..once once once..what's all this fuss about???


Maybe you should read the entire thread before you post. Otherwise you're bound to come up with a very uninformed statement as you did above. Also, I'm not here to write according to your likes and dislikes. I've spent countless hours helping people who are in need of help. If you on the other hand believe what I have written thus far is "senseless drivel" then by all means don't come looking for answers to your problems in this thread. Regards...

#55 Emhfali

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:57 PM

everybody here who has deeper scarring have spent countless hours on this board. we're all desperate 'cause there isn't any method which is working for deeper acne scarring. i've deeper icepick and some rolling scars. show me one, only one, case which was succsessful in treating deeper acne scarring. i demand only one case. can you fulfill my desire? i don't think so.

don't get me wrong, i've a lot respect for you. but i've met so many doctors who have promised me they would heal deeper acne scars. but finally i had to accept that nothing works for deep scarring. they can't show me any case which was succsessful in healing scarring. so if you can show me only one case all my accusations will vanish into thin air.


#56 christpunchers

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:17 PM

Question for Bulgarian Derm, Are the results of blood/saline injection permanent? Do they help with redness in the scars?

#57 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE (christpunchers @ Aug 20 2008, 04:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question for Bulgarian Derm, Are the results of blood/saline injection permanent? Do they help with redness in the scars?


I have never talked about saline injections. Blood injections have nothing in common with saline injections.

Saline injections are largely ineffective in my opinion.

Blood injections on the other hand are effective because:

1) The blood has some extraordinary histological properties that stimulate ECM repair upon haematoma formation. See the first page of this thread for detailed information.

2) The haematoma acts a chromophore for red and infrared LED light. This heats up the area of injection more and stimulates a targeted response on the part of fibroblasts. The said LED light also stimulates a host of other cells that contribute to the ECM remodelling process to function more effectively. Utilizing light therapy after a blood injection is called the Bastille method.

As for redness, the blood itself can help in the long-term. However it does make the injection site darker in the short-term due to the temporary haematoma formation. Furthermore, the LED is especially effective for eliminating red spots over time. This is primarily due to the fact that specific wavelengths target the red pigment leftover from acne scars.

#58 christpunchers

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Aug 19 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (christpunchers @ Aug 20 2008, 04:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question for Bulgarian Derm, Are the results of blood/saline injection permanent? Do they help with redness in the scars?


I have never talked about saline injections. Blood injections have nothing in common with saline injections.

Saline injections are largely ineffective in my opinion.

Blood injections on the other hand are effective because:

1) The blood has some extraordinary histological properties that stimulate ECM repair upon haematoma formation. See the first page of this thread for detailed information.

2) The haematoma acts a chromophore for red and infrared LED light. This heats up the area of injection more and stimulates a targeted response on the part of fibroblasts. The said LED light also stimulates a host of other cells that contribute to the ECM remodelling process to function more effectively. Utilizing light therapy after a blood injection is called the Bastille method.

As for redness, the blood itself can help in the long-term. However it does make the injection site darker in the short-term due to the temporary haematoma formation. Furthermore, the LED is especially effective for eliminating red spots over time. This is primarily due to the fact that specific wavelengths target the red pigment leftover from acne scars.

Why would saline be ineffective? I was told by many that it works really well, better than many of the other treatment types out there. I just want to get your opinion, I'm not really dead set to try neither (but I have access to both).

#59 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:26 PM

Saline is ineffective in my experience. I have not had good results with saline.

It should not be compared to blood in any way, form or fashion. I don't know why saline has been mentioned in this thread as having the same effects as blood. After all, saline contains nothing more than water and salt, while blood is a biological solution full of various growth factors and cells that contribute to the healing response that I've described in detail within the first page of this thread. Blood also coagulates to form a haematoma that stimulates ECM repair. Saline can do no such thing. Finally, saline is not pigmented like blood and thus will not be able to absorb as high of a percentage of the LED light when the Bastille method is utilized. For this method to work you have to have blood injected into the scar tissue.

Anyway, this is a thread about blood injections and I don't want people to get them confused with saline injections. The difference between the two is truly like night and day. By all means, try saline injections and see if they work for you. However, please don't confuse the methodologies I've presented here with something completely unrelated.

Best wishes. smile.gif

#60 Emhfali

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE
everybody here who has deeper scarring have spent countless hours on this board. we're all desperate 'cause there isn't any method which is working for deeper acne scarring. i've deeper icepick and some rolling scars. show me one, only one, case which was succsessful in treating deeper acne scarring. i demand only one case. can you fulfill my desire? i don't think so.

don't get me wrong, i've a lot respect for you. but i've met so many doctors who have promised me they would heal deeper acne scars. but finally i had to accept that nothing works for deep scarring. they can't show me any case which was succsessful in healing scarring. so if you can show me only one case all my accusations will vanish into thin air.


hehe yeah, that was obviously. no answer 'cause no (succsessful) case.
cheer up