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Autologous Blood Injection: Acne Scar Repair Via Hyperplasia, Peripheral Stem Cells Deposition, Differentiation & ECM Growth Within Ensuing Haematoma

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#1 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 03:04 AM

Below this paragraph you will find information related to the subject/method of Autologous Blood Transfer for Acne Scar Revision. I originally wrote this text in the Scarless Healing thread. Nonetheless, I have since decided to include it here as a partial introduction to this new thread. If you want to cut to the chase read the second half of the text, wherein I briefly discuss the use of blood as a filler substance for acne scar depressions. I also introduce the histological mechanisms by which blood injected into said depression(s) can stimulate collagen formation and cellular differentiation from 'Peripheral Blood Stem Cells' that are present in minute quantities within your blood serum. Further still, the endogeneic growth factor proteins, amino acids, platelets and white cells present within blood all play a direct role in the healing process. Finally the resulting haematoma at the intra-dermal site of injection creates the conditions necessary for collagen deposition and growth. Indeed blood contains fibrocytes that are important for the production of Type I Collagen.

Below is the text I wrote in the Scarless Healing thread:

I've been getting quite a few private messages from acne.org members who are in a lot of pain and desperation. I am happy to talk to you, and I always try to answer your questions in detail. I want you to know that I'm here to help in my own small way, but so far I've tried to stay away from encouraging people to do something drastic. That said, due to the fact that medical services are exceptionally expensive and that many if not most doctors are selfish or at the very least emotionally detached to the point of losing the drive and inspiration to attempt perfection whilst working on your scars, I have decided I am going to try and give you more knowledge in the hope that you will find a way to make it work for you.

I will suggest a freely available and in fact easily accessible autologous filler substance that has been shown to have efficacy in treating depressed acne scars. Based on the information that I provide, you may potentially then agree that this filler can be easily transplanted/injected into a recipient site by just about anyone with a steady hand, discipline and adherence to a maximally sterile (aka: sterilized skin, syringe, etc), yet simple procedural methodology. This suggestion will contradict what most doctors tell you, because for one reason or another many of them have become automated appendages of the money hungry corporations/producers of synthetic fillers. So I say this at my own risk, but then again, no one here knows my name. Likewise, this information and the given method for acne scar revision is yours to use according to your own free will and at your own personal risk. After all, if one is not careful, even the safest procedure can become a hazard to your health.

Obviously there are many fillers, most of them synthetic and or composed of foreign tissue, so they are not only expensive but also dangerous. Yes they help, but at times they also harm. You need a doctor that is like an artist, full of passion and expertise, who is willing to work with you for hours upon hours, week after week, until something near perfection can be achieved. Unfortunately this will cost you a small fortune. Sometimes, you may opt to go to a relatively poor country where the same service will not impact your bank account to the same degree. Even so, it is not easy to find the surgical talant, kind heart and perfection oriented intellect all combined into one human 'medical practioner's package.

I don't know if you've heard of this, but autologous substances when used correctly can provide permanence in tissue augmentation. You all likely know of autologous fat injection and autologous collagen injection. However, you do not have access to these materials. It would be very dangerous for anyone to attempt to harvest/isolate either of these substances from themselves. So you are left with only one option and that is to go to a doctor in your area, who will charge you a lot of money only to give you an imperfect service.

Now think of your days in high school math class and try to recall the Bell Curve. Split it up according to standard deviations. The horizontal axis of this Bell Curve represents the cosmetic/surgical skills of doctors. Any career, and indeed anyone regardless of their educational background, will in one way or another fall somewhere on this curve. Doctors included! From a statistical standpoint then, 50% of doctors are below average in their skills, while only those beyond 1.5 to 2.0 standard deviations on the right side of the curve's average can be considered to have good skills. The top 2.5% are those that are considered outstanding. That's 1 in 40... You have to do your homework to find these bright lights in a largely dark world.

Generally the 1 in 40 doctors will charge you more for their unusual abilities. This however is not always the case. Again, these doctors, including the artistic geniuses ( the 1 in 100 factor ) are also present in poor countries. If you are from a wealthy area of the world, you may just be able to afford them and their supreme abilities. But even so, there is the issue of travel, the difference in medical culture, etc that make this less practical. Also, many of the supreme doctors might be great with their hands, but again could potentially turn out to be indifferent and incapable of accepting their own fallacy should problems arise. Those that think they are gods sometimes make the biggest mistakes!

OK, so here's the reality.

Your bone marrow tissue mixed with your blood can be injected into your acne scars. I don't know if it has been done, but cardiologists have been experimenting with this for some time now. Scar tissue seems to get rebuilt in such experiments and healthy heart function returns often within weeks of injection into the scarred areas of the heart muscle.

The problem with this is that again you will have to go to a foremost expert who is willing to try this. The costs involved would be through the roof. Further still, what would the results be? I believe quite good, but I don't have proof as I have not done this procedure myself. That said, it works in the heart experiments because your bone marrow contains stem cells. It also contains a host of other things that will give recipient cells a myriad of regeneration stimulating signals.

What about your blood? Yes, your blood can be injected into your acne scars. This is where I can get into a lot of trouble, but then again my identity is secure. Haha! Or at least I happen to think so, thus I am enjoying a feeling of security that could potentially be a case of 'ignorance is bliss'... Oh well!

What many of you probably didn't know because some doctors forgot to tell you is that your own blood injected into scar tissue can cause a haematoma that in turn perpetuates collagen formation in that exact area.

Here's a quote:

"In this study, we explored the possibility of blood injection as a means of augmenting the labrum's contribution to the glenoid concavity. Tissue augmentation by injection of materials has become a well-established procedure in the fields of dermatologie and cosmetic surgery.18-21 It has also been advocated, in view of its minimal invasiveness and morbidity, as a primary treatment for velopharyngeal incompetence22 and dysphonia.23 Materials used for injection have included bovine collagen, homologous collagen, hyaluronic acid gel, and autologous fat. The use of autologous blood to augment atrophie acne scars has also been reported to be effective and has been postulated to have a long-lasting effect by inducing collagen formation in the resulting haematoma.24"

Here's another quote from a different source:

"Blood transfer is a unique method of injecting one's own blood into a depressed acne scar. For deeper scars, blood can be injected to correct the skin deficit, which then induces collagen production in the area to produce a medium to long-term improvement. For more superficial scars, a smaller amount of blood is injected superficially into the scar, and then a vascular laser such as the Gemini laser is used to fire into the acne scar containing blood. The laser is attracted specifically to the blood, and this induces a stimulation of collagen in the scar which helps to raise the skin to a more even level."

Is this as effective as other fillers? I am not certain, since a comparative study must be performed in order to ascertain the relative efficacy of such a procedure. However, my analysis and consequent application of logic as based on sound scientific principles leads me to believe that it could very well be just as effective as those "other" fillers that claim to stimulate collagen formation, yet end up costing you more than your car is worth. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

Research the composition of blood and the way in which it functions to gain further insight into what this procedure could mean for you. Do the searches and come to your own conclusions. You deserve the power of information. This is information that can then be transformed by your minds into knowledge... and I may be going on a limb here, but perhaps you have more knowledge about acne scars then 99% of doctors out there. Remember the Bell Curve!

Do what you want with this knowledge, but remember:

a) blood contains 'peripheral blood stem cells'
b) blood contains many other cells (neutrophils, monocytes, etc) that are vital for repair, including proteins for cellular communication, fibroblast regulation, etc
c) blood is easy to extract (You know the drill...)
d) it's yours after all, so it's free and your veins are not all that difficult to get to (Oh boy!)

Some might want to 'biblically' stone me to death for saying this. But since joining acne.org I can clearly see that people are doing all kinds of dangerous things to themselves precisely because of the pain and desperation present within their/our suffering souls. So I finally decided I might just lose my professional sanity here by sharing this piece of information...

Again, I suggest you discuss this with a doctor who wants to truly help you... I also hope he's up there in the skills we discussed. Note, one must sterilize the skin before injection and one must inject very soon after blood extraction, because you don't want cells within the blood to die. Injection should occur at differing angles depending on the scar present and sometimes at slightly different intra-dermal levels.

OK, there it was! I'm tired now... I feel good and bad all at once. It takes a great deal of time and effort for me to compose these messages and articulate them in a way that is beneficial for your/our cause. I do my best to express myself in an understandable fashion as English is not my first language. Anyway, whatever your opinion may be, base it on knowledge and understand that this is my way of helping you... Even if there may be member-to-member disagreements on moral, ethical and/or professional levels, I believe this is the way in which I can help.

#2 Changelife

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 05:21 AM

Hey BRD,

at first thank you very much for posting this interesting suggestion. I could only have a short look over your posts, because I have to learn for some tests next week and so I do not have much time.
But my first thougts are: Isn't it possible to create hypertrophic scar with this method, when too much collagen was created? What about effusions of blood which will look your face ugly? Thanks

#3 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

QUOTE (Changelife @ Jun 27 2008, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey BRD,

at first thank you very much for posting this interesting suggestion. I could only have a short look over your posts, because I have to learn for some tests next week and so I do not have much time.
But my first thougts are: Isn't it possible to create hypertrophic scar with this method, when too much collagen was created? What about effusions of blood which will look your face ugly? Thanks


Hi Changelife,

The way I see it, blood is safer as a filler substance than anything else out there. Other fillers, especially the ones that have medium to long-term permanence within recipient site, are dangerous because of the possibility for granuloma formations due to allergic reactions. Sometimes such reactions can occur years after a particular filler such as silicon has been injected.

Since your blood cannot in any way cause your body to perceive it as a foreign substance, there is no risk of an allergic reaction. The biggest risk is actually injecting partially coagulated blood into a blood vessel. This is problematic and therefore the procedure requires the blood to be injected into a depressed scar immediately after extraction.

Once the blood is injected into the acne scar a haematoma will form. This is intra-dermal coagulated blood. Think of a bruise you get after you accidentally hit a blunt object with one of your limbs. The haematoma will not look pretty. That's for certain, however that's the medium-term price you pay for creating the conditions for tissue repair and regeneration. Nonetheless, the medium-term brusing can be hidden with makeup.

Autologous blood injection into an acne scar will do the following in a roughly sequential manner:

1) Haematoma formation.


2) Platelet Derived Growth Factor (PDGF) and other growth factors (proteins that function as regeneration regulators amongst other things) will be released by platelets during coagulation (haematoma formation) in step 1.


3) These growth factors will function as cellular signals that cause an abnormally large number of fibroblasts to migrate to the site of the haematoma. The localized immune response, as regulated by fibroblast GF(s) (growth factor(s)) and Il(s) (interleukin(s)), will accelerate the healing. In essence they help down-regulate the otherwise inflammatory and tissue-degenerative immune response. Simply said, under the effect of the said GF(s) and IL(s) control mechanism, the local macrophages recognize the fully formed haematoma as a clearly defined, localized and indeed minimally detrimental site specific tissue injury, which does not require white blood cell hyper-reactivity than would lead to the unwanted inflammatory effect. The key point to remember is that the growth factors and interleukins present in and around a haematoma will keep the immune system at bay, thus allowing the concentrated number of fibroblasts to do their job in a maximally efficient and effective manner. Afterall, the less inflammation the better the sub-dermal regeneration.

The outlined process described above is representative of a positive feedback loop, wherein the overwhelming number of fibroblasts regulate the immune response, while consequently the regulated immune response allows the fibroblasts to build tissue in a more organized and scar-free fashion. As a consequence even more fibroblasts can undergo mitosis and begin to function properly at the site of the haematoma, which causes the cycle of regeneration-regulation to repeat itself indefinitely.

(Note A]: In other words, you do not need the fibroblast specific Isolagen treatment. The autologous blood injection is just as effective if not more so!)


4) The result is fibroblastic hyperplasia. Hyperplasia is basically a fancy word for the proliferation of cells within an organ or tissue beyond that which is ordinarily seen.

([Note B]: The medical community knows rather well that hyperplasia can cause the enlargement of organs and/or tissues. More importantly the enlargement is site specific, and therefore tissue specific. In the case of a hypotrophic scar, intra-dermal tissue growth is a good thing. Also, hyperplasia is related to neoplasia, which is condition underlying tumor growth, benign or otherwise. However, unlike neoplasia, the hyperplasia site is regulated by normal histological control mechanisms and is therefore not dangerous, though very effective for tissue growth and regeneration. )


5) The fibrocytes (quiescent fibroblasts) present within the injected blood will be stimulated to start laying the groundwork for the extracellular matrix generation. These "cells [have] the ability to produce an ECM. The cells express the hematopoietic cell surface markers CD34+, CD45+, as well as fibroblast markers such as collagen. In addition, fibrocytes express the class II major histocompatibility complex molecules and the costimulatory molecules. These cell can migrate to wound sites, suggesting a role in wound healing. There are several studies suggesting that fibrocytes mediate wound healing and fibrotic tissue repair."


6) The large number of fibroblasts will start making, "collagens, glycosaminoglycans, reticular and elastic fibers, and glycoproteins found in the extracellular matrix." This functionality in combination with the direct ECM organizing capability of the related fibrocytes creates a healing cascade that results in histological rebuilding of hypotrophic tissue. These cells will also start producing more growth factors to stimulate further tissue repair. Refer to [Note B] for more information.


7) The relatively long-lasting haematoma constantly reinforces the 'tissue injury' response for a prolonged period of time. As a result the functioning fibroblasts in the area now start undergoing mitosis thereby exponentially increasing their numbers without necessitating further migration per se. In adults, fibroblasts in connective tissue rarely undergo mitosis, which is partially responsible for weakened regerative capabilities. Thus the haematoma specific mitosis is of utmost benefit in order to stimulate the said repair processes.

8) Angiogenesis also occurs, allowing blood to vessels to form around and even partially penetrate the scar tissue once formed by the improper inflammatory response to an acne scar.


9) Peripheral Blood Stem Cells (PBSC) will differentiate in order to help rebuild site specific tissues.

10) Adipocytes are stimulated to create areolar connective tissue that also helps soften and plum up the skin.


([Note C]: The procedure may need to be repeated where hypotrophic tissue damage is extensive.)

#4 zrbx

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 08:39 AM

I'm a med student, so i'm familiar with your explanation

in subcision you do both things:
- cut tissue to allow him to pop up.
- make secondary haematomas doing this.

the results are not great, but good for some people.
anyway

Autologous Blood Injection makes some sense, I which I had some acne scar in my arm to test this(haha)
I dont want to stick even a needle in my face right now lol

But there's one thing..
Don't you think that if a simple way to stimulate extracellular matrix like this actually works, would be a common knowledge in the medical community?
Can you link me the articles of the studies you quoted?
thank you !

( my english sucks, sorry smile.gif )
Medstudent 5th year \o/

Regimen: isotretinoin 20mg twice/week !

07/07/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 85mj - 1 pass
08/13/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 2/3 passes
09/22/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 1/2 passes
11/05/2009 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj
23/06/2010 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj

#5 tricia

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 04:30 PM

I have read about the blood into the scars a few different places, this is one:

http://www.thevictor.../acne-scarring/

The blood injection is mentioned under treatment for superficial scarring

I actually injected large volumes of saline into my own scars sometime back and did it about every two weeks for a few months. I think it had some effect because it breaks up the scar tissue and can cause some blood circulation with little down time. Dr. Sire does this out of California. I think injecting blood would have similar effect.

#6 Arsenal

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:30 PM

can people try and quote medical journals rather than random websites


#7 zrbx

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 05:58 PM

arsenal is right..
Medstudent 5th year \o/

Regimen: isotretinoin 20mg twice/week !

07/07/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 85mj - 1 pass
08/13/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 2/3 passes
09/22/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 1/2 passes
11/05/2009 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj
23/06/2010 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj

#8 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:04 PM

Yes indeed you all deserve to see medical proof that this works or not... Here are some studies performed and documented in medical journals.

1) From the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique. Name of the article; Blood transfer: The use of autologous blood as a chromophore and tissue augmentation agent:
link:http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=14134738

Quotes from this peer reviewed source:

"After drawing blood from the patient, this was immediately reinjected into premarked areas of atrophic scars. If there was substantial tissue deficit, this was either followed by repeated injections of whole blood at monthly intervals on three occasions or until adequate correction was attained and oral antifibrinolysis medication dispensed in addition to the blood transfer (hematogenous augmentation of tissue or the HAT technique). In the other circumstance, where the deficit was superficial, blood was implanted high in the tissue and used as a target for vascular laser or intense pulsed light in a technique termed the blood augmentation (with or without) stimulation of tissues by irradiation with light or laser energy or the Bastille technique. This is again repeated as required."

"Reasonable short- to medium-term correction has been attained in all five cases and there seemed to be a progressive improvement with each injection session. With the Bastille technique case there seemed to be progressive improvement with time, with the result at 4 weeks being substantially better than that at 2 weeks or at baseline."

"[Autologous blood injection can help] to provide a medium- to long-term correction for atrophic scars and other depressions, such as expression lines and wrinkles, they would be worthwhile additions to existing dermatologic techniques."


2) From the Journal of Orthpeidic Surgery. Article name; Capsulolabral augmentation by blood injection increases the intrinsic stability provided by the glenoid:
link: http://findarticles....04/ai_n14682653

A quote:

"The use of autologous blood to augment atrophie acne scars has also been reported to be effective and has been postulated to have a long-lasting effect by inducing collagen formation in the resulting haematoma.24"


3) Aticle name; Autologous blood injections for refractory lateral epicondylitis.
link: http://www.davidlnel...odInjection.htm

Quote:

"Introducing autologous blood in a relatively atraumatic manner may initiate the inflammatory cascade and promote healing in an otherwise degenerative process. Inflammation at the injection site may have occurred during this study given the degree of local pain and erythema elicited in some patients. Whether this inflammatory response resulted from local tissue irritation during the metabolism of the blood or from cell-mediated factors within the blood is unknown. The latter hypothesis is favored, however, given the reports by Hildebrand et al22 of stronger and earlier healing after injections of platelet-derived growth factor into acutely torn medial collateral ligaments in rabbits. Fibroblastic hyperplasia and vascular formation were noted."


4) Another source from the PubMed.gov:
link:http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12850800


As a final note, please check the article I have sourced below. Search for it in google, because it discusses autologous blood transfers for acne scars. I don't have a link because you need to sign-up with a medical journal in order to access the text. sad.gif However, if you study or work at a university, you might be able to access this and other medical journals through your student, graduate and/or staff electronic library account.

Article name and author information to be used in your search:

Combining treatments to produce rational treatment of acne scars.

BIENNIAL SPRING CONFERENCE
Australasian Journal of Dermatology. 48 Supplement 2:A102-A104, September 2007.
Goodman, G.


Best of luck with everything. I am continually researching inexpensive and autologous substances that can help us all beat acne scars. As I always say and firmly believe, together we will win this war.

#9 zrbx

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:55 PM

nice!
I will read some..

ps: i hate this articles that need accounts and $ -.-
Medstudent 5th year \o/

Regimen: isotretinoin 20mg twice/week !

07/07/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 85mj - 1 pass
08/13/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 2/3 passes
09/22/2009 - Starlux 1540 - 100mj - 1/2 passes
11/05/2009 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj
23/06/2010 - Starkux 1540 - 100mj

#10 joedude

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 08:30 AM

Fat injections can contain significant numbers of stem cells, and my PSs are noticing that the quality of their patients' skin magically improves.

I have had several rounds of fat grafting and my skin quality improves each time and it's not just due to the plumping with the fat. It is almost magical. I am not a fan of injecting whole blood because of the hemosiderin problem. I have had hemoglobin stains in my facial skin following surgery that took a long time to go away, and sometimes the stain is permanent.

Love the fat injections.


QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jun 29 2008, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes indeed you all deserve to see medical proof that this works or not... Here are some studies performed and documented in medical journals.

1) From the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique. Name of the article; Blood transfer: The use of autologous blood as a chromophore and tissue augmentation agent:
link:http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=14134738

Quotes from this peer reviewed source:

"After drawing blood from the patient, this was immediately reinjected into premarked areas of atrophic scars. If there was substantial tissue deficit, this was either followed by repeated injections of whole blood at monthly intervals on three occasions or until adequate correction was attained and oral antifibrinolysis medication dispensed in addition to the blood transfer (hematogenous augmentation of tissue or the HAT technique). In the other circumstance, where the deficit was superficial, blood was implanted high in the tissue and used as a target for vascular laser or intense pulsed light in a technique termed the blood augmentation (with or without) stimulation of tissues by irradiation with light or laser energy or the Bastille technique. This is again repeated as required."

"Reasonable short- to medium-term correction has been attained in all five cases and there seemed to be a progressive improvement with each injection session. With the Bastille technique case there seemed to be progressive improvement with time, with the result at 4 weeks being substantially better than that at 2 weeks or at baseline."

"[Autologous blood injection can help] to provide a medium- to long-term correction for atrophic scars and other depressions, such as expression lines and wrinkles, they would be worthwhile additions to existing dermatologic techniques."


2) From the Journal of Orthpeidic Surgery. Article name; Capsulolabral augmentation by blood injection increases the intrinsic stability provided by the glenoid:
link: http://findarticles....04/ai_n14682653

A quote:

"The use of autologous blood to augment atrophie acne scars has also been reported to be effective and has been postulated to have a long-lasting effect by inducing collagen formation in the resulting haematoma.24"


3) Aticle name; Autologous blood injections for refractory lateral epicondylitis.
link: http://www.davidlnel...odInjection.htm

Quote:

"Introducing autologous blood in a relatively atraumatic manner may initiate the inflammatory cascade and promote healing in an otherwise degenerative process. Inflammation at the injection site may have occurred during this study given the degree of local pain and erythema elicited in some patients. Whether this inflammatory response resulted from local tissue irritation during the metabolism of the blood or from cell-mediated factors within the blood is unknown. The latter hypothesis is favored, however, given the reports by Hildebrand et al22 of stronger and earlier healing after injections of platelet-derived growth factor into acutely torn medial collateral ligaments in rabbits. Fibroblastic hyperplasia and vascular formation were noted."


4) Another source from the PubMed.gov:
link:http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12850800


As a final note, please check the article I have sourced below. Search for it in google, because it discusses autologous blood transfers for acne scars. I don't have a link because you need to sign-up with a medical journal in order to access the text. sad.gif However, if you study or work at a university, you might be able to access this and other medical journals through your student, graduate and/or staff electronic library account.

Article name and author information to be used in your search:

Combining treatments to produce rational treatment of acne scars.

BIENNIAL SPRING CONFERENCE
Australasian Journal of Dermatology. 48 Supplement 2:A102-A104, September 2007.
Goodman, G.


Best of luck with everything. I am continually researching inexpensive and autologous substances that can help us all beat acne scars. As I always say and firmly believe, together we will win this war.



#11 Changelife

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 01:20 PM

Is this procedure widely avaible and is it expensive?

#12 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 01:32 AM

@ Joedude,

Yes fat grafting is a very good procedure. Adipose tissue does contain stem cells. However, this procedure must be done in the hands of an experienced and indeed talented doctor. If not, the fat may be reabsorbed without permanent effects taking place, whilst your wallet becomes thinner in the process. Also, it is difficult to be accurate with fat grafting, though some surgeons can truly make acne scars go away with this procedure.

Basically if someone is looking to do this, do your homework. Ask the surgeon these questions:

1) What kind of procedure do you use to harvest the fat? (Some doctors don't harvest properly and end up damaging the adipose tissue before even injecting it into your skin.)

2) With your procedure, (a) harvesting and (b) transplanting/injecting, do you guarantee permanent results?

If they don't, ask them why not! The reason I say this is because a skilled practitioner can achieve permanence over 1-3 visits.

3) May I have before/after pictures and contact info for your previous patients who had fat grafting done for their acne scars, wrinkles and/or facial augmentation. Some of the best doctors can arrange for their former patients, with prior approval, to be referrers for his/her skills as a cosmetic/plastic surgeon.

In regard to your comments on autologous blood transfers:

Pigmentation from autologous blood injection usually dissipates within 1-2 weeks. However, should someone experience longer term pigmentation (I haven't seen anything last longer than 5 weeks and this was a rare case), this can be taken care of by way of various pigment specific light/laser treatments. Think of the haematoma as a bruise. If you've bruised yourself and the dark blue/purple pigment did not go away easily than you will know what to expect from the blood injection.

I suggest anyone who wants to try this procedure to inject their blood into one scar only and see for themselves how long it takes for the haematoma induced pigment to disappear. Thus you will gauge how your body reacts and have reassurance for future treatments.
-----------------------------------

@ Changelife,

Fat grafting is expensive, approximately $1500 to $3000 in most western countries. This cost is however directly dependent on the size of area to be treated and the overall precision necessary to achieve desired results. However it is safe and as I said, very effective when performed with an eye for detail... So from a long-term perspective, it could actually be much less expensive than other procedures and indeed very rewarding.

As you know I am a fan of procedures that use autologous substances.

Present options that I like for intra-dermal 'acne scar' deposition:

a) Autologous fat transfer (safe, expensive and effective)

b) Autologous blood transfer (safe, very inexpensive and effective)

Future options for injectable autologous substances:

a) Blood/Fat transfer than includes additional stem cells taken directly from your bone marrow (safe, very expensive and extremely effective) ... Basically your bone marrow has more, a lot more, stem cells than either your blood alone or your adipose (fat) tissue. If you've read my posts you'll know I see a bright future in such a procedure.

#13 havingfaith

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 01:17 PM

One doctor who specializes in fat said that it shouldn't be injected directly into a scar because it is not effective. Is that true Bulg-Derm?


Thanks

#14 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (havingfaith @ Jul 3 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One doctor who specializes in fat said that it shouldn't be injected directly into a scar because it is not effective. Is that true Bulg-Derm?


Thanks


I'm not certain what your doctor meant, since autologous fat transfer can treat the most serious of acne scars. I am basically talking about the deep pits left from cystic acne. Also, fat transfer can make areas of the skin where there are clusters of scars flatten out.

It is however difficult to do this as fat has to be injected into an area where adipose tissue is found. That means it is injected deeper than other fillers and thus requires a great deal of patience and care on the part of the doctor for accuracy and permanency to be achieved. Thus many doctors may say they cannot fix acne scars with fat injections, while what they are really saying is that they do not feel comfortable making promises they can't fulfill due to a lack of talent, skill and/or dedication to you. On one hand it is good when a doctor doesn't perform a procedure he/she does not think they can do correctly, but on the other hand it isn't good when he/she essentially puts all other doctors in the same skill category as him/herself. The information you received is in my opinion a form misinformation since fat transfer in the hands of what I call 'the passionate savant artisan' surgeon can dramatically improve deep-pitted acne scarred skin to the point of visual perfection. I always tell myself to not judge others based on my personal and professional insufficiencies. That’s why I praise those doctors that are better than me in one way or another, because I know they can change or save a life in ways that I can only dream of…

The likes of Brad Pitt, Ray Liotta, James Woods can and do have their serious acne scars 'fixed'... I am told for most US celebrities it's been done by way of injections of various autologous substances. To expand on the list I mentioned earlier, such substances could be fat, collagen, trans-dermal, blood and/or harvested fibroblasts. Anyway, Brad Pitt usually goes to a guy named Mark Rubin. When Mr. Pitt says to him, "Fix me doc!" Dr. Rubin would likely not reply with a lack of emotion and the sour words, "It's not possible..." See, it's all about how much time a doctor is willing to invest in you, and indeed how much skill they have to make that critical period of time worthwhile. Unfortunately money talks, and in this way Mr. Pitt talks big. Either way, I want you all to know that there is a way to have smooth skin.

YOU will have smooth skin!

#15 improve

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 02:31 AM

The problem is: will the fat be absorbed over time or will it be permanent? That is the big question. We all know that unfortunately there is a possibility that the fat will vanish over time (I think you would start to see that after 2/3 months). And this could happen even if all the procedure is done with the greatest care and skill. What do you think?

#16 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 04:03 AM

QUOTE (improve @ Jul 4 2008, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem is: will the fat be absorbed over time or will it be permanent? That is the big question. We all know that unfortunately there is a possibility that the fat will vanish over time (I think you would start to see that after 2/3 months). And this could happen even if all the procedure is done with the greatest care and skill. What do you think?


The fat will not be reabsorbed if the proper harvesting and transfer technique is used. It's all a matter of whether the fat has been damaged or not durring harvesting and whether or not it is injected at the proper depth. As I've said, it may take anywhere between 1 and 3 visits, but permanent results can be achieved. Anyone that tells you otherwise is mistaken.

#17 Guest_delta force operators_*

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 01:02 PM

is needling the same as this? In the science instead of injecting blood ur creating mirco wounds that draw blood.

#18 joedude

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:38 AM

When I get the fat transfers, about 50 percent of the fat lives. They overinject me to make sure enough stays, and I look really alien in the first two days. I also avoid alcohol to hedge my bet to ensure that the fat lives. I usually give up all alcohol for two weeks around the transplant. There's a really good article by the PS Ellenbogen about his experience with fat transfer in his PS practice, and how the quality of the skin actually improves with the transfer, which could not be explained by plumping of the skin alone. That said, it's really difficult to find a PS who does a lot of fat injection and is very skilled at it, and who charges a reasonable fee.

I'd say that all of the things I have tried on my skin: laser, fat injection, cautery, topicals like Tazorac; each helped about 10 percent with a cumulative effect of about 80 percent. It's a lot of trial and error and it's really an art and not a science.


QUOTE (Bulgarian R. Dermatologist @ Jul 4 2008, 06:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (improve @ Jul 4 2008, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem is: will the fat be absorbed over time or will it be permanent? That is the big question. We all know that unfortunately there is a possibility that the fat will vanish over time (I think you would start to see that after 2/3 months). And this could happen even if all the procedure is done with the greatest care and skill. What do you think?


The fat will not be reabsorbed if the proper harvesting and transfer technique is used. It's all a matter of whether the fat has been damaged or not durring harvesting and whether or not it is injected at the proper depth. As I've said, it may take anywhere between 1 and 3 visits, but permanent results can be achieved. Anyone that tells you otherwise is mistaken.



#19 joedude

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:28 AM

My PS is very careful when injecting near scars because I think they can bulge if injected improperly. Also, scars can be in areas where the injected fat might have difficulty finding a good blood supply to due the large amount of fibrous tissue sometimes associated with scarring.

I had fat injection under an appendectomy incision and I think most of the fat has died by now.

QUOTE (delta force operators @ Jul 6 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
is needling the same as this? In the science instead of injecting blood ur creating mirco wounds that draw blood.



#20 happymelon

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 12:32 AM

So where can one find a skilled doc that can "fix" our scars?