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Immune Response

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This might help:

Rev Med Chir Soc Med Nat Iasi. 2004 Apr-Jun;108(2):319-24.

[Immunohistochemical evidence of chronic inflammation in acne vulgaris][Article in Romanian]

Brănişteanu D, Cianga C, Cianga P, Petrescu Z, Carasevici E.

Universitatea de Medicină şi Farmacie Gr.T. Popa Iaşi, Facultatea de Medicină, Clinica Dermatologică.

The etiology and pathogenesis of acne vulgaris are not yet completely understood. Therefore we have investigated 5 patients with different clinical forms of disease, including the rare form of acne fulminans. Taking into consideration the four factors that are currently incriminated in the development of acne, sebaceous hypersecretion, hyperkeratosis of the pilosebaceous infundibulum, bacterial colonisation and perifollicular inflammation, we have focused our study on a set of cells involved in the chronic inflammatory process. We have evidenced by immunohistochemistry methods, using appropriate monoclonal antibodies, the presence of T lymphocytes and macrophages, while the B cells could be evidenced only in the severe forms. We were also interested to investigate the occurrence of new capillary formation, as an accompanying phenomenon of the inflammatory process. The presence and histological distribution of these cells highly supports the hypothesis that the mechanisms underlying the development of acne vulgaris belong to the Delayed Type Hypersensitivity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1568880...Pubmed_RVDocSum


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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here is something that could add to this thread, what do you guys think??

http://www.physorg.com/news112424870.html

http://www.attitudefactor.com/immune.htm


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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After reading the study, I'm confused at the original post. The study does say that B cells do not respond in normal acne cases, only during severe acne. We also know that B cells are responsible for producing antibodies. So why should one expect that antibodies would be produced against P.acne in normal acne cases?

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After reading the study, I'm confused at the original post. The study does say that B cells do not respond in normal acne cases, only during severe acne. We also know that B cells are responsible for producing antibodies. So why should one expect that antibodies would be produced against P.acne in normal acne cases?

These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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I sort of get what he means. You can have both memory B-cells and memory T-cells. When we talk about acne as a DTH, we are speaking of a T-cell mediated response. Basically, you have a feedback loop in which T cells activate macrophages upon exposure to the antigen. Macrophages can then activate the T cells. This chronic activation will lead to inflammation, because lots of inflammatory mediators are released. So when the OP wrote about developing "antibodies," he wasn't completely correct--only the most severe cases have antibodies involved....

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hey hey hey,

been reading the literature sweetjade posted which is informtive and has cleared some of my misconceptions.

my immunology is a bit sketchy its been a while since i've used it. macrophages are always first at a site of infection not always the first for immune response but contributes to the immune response but causing a chain reaction ultimatly if needed, B cells for antibdies and memory cells.

when a spot forms the number of p. acne in the follicle is abnormal, this causes waste products to accumulate in the follicle. i suspect the first stages of the immune response occures but its this response that causes acne.

if i understand correctly inflammation occures, the site becomes red and heavily dilated because of the body redirecting resources to fight the infection. the body does not know if this invasion is by a simple organism or something more serious one. during the next couple of days, the bacteria dies probably through phagocytosis in relation to john1234's comment, it most probably be a t-cell mediated response, antibodies i don't believe assists much, possibly neutralizing toxins produced or improving phagocytosis (or in cystic or severe acne where the bacteria has grown beyound the follicle and erupted in the hypodermis and getting close to the blood supply thus causing a harsher response?). anyway; ultimatly puss forms at the site due to bacteria destruction and bacteria replication; samaging surrounding cells. at the end of the infection all the bacteria would have been killed and the body begins the repair stage.

p. acne is part of the natural human flora. we have many other organisms. they are hamless and helps the body but when they appear in unsual places or when their number get to high, the body will defend itself causing adverse physiological and biological reactions.

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Hi Immune response....Have I got news for you.

email me at [email protected] I'll explain the immune response to a specific molecule which is the root cause of acne.

Martin

Hi people.

this has been bothering me for a while. i have a degree in microbiology but i still don't understand why this happens. when bacteria such as p. acne grows in a blocked follicle it causes a spot.

the bodies immune system will quickly detect these microbes and begin to attacked using white cells on many types (mainly macrophages) this causes inflamtion dues to chemicles released by the white cells. as time goes by puss occurs signalling death of the bacteria then healing and repair phase.

once we have been exposed once shouldn't our immune system destroy any p .acnes in the follicle before a spot forms? this would be true for any microbe that invades our body. antibodies would still linger in the body, macrophages would be more effective against the bacteria and memory cells would be made. so why are we still prone to them?

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Hi people.

this has been bothering me for a while. i have a degree in microbiology but i still don't understand why this happens. when bacteria such as p. acne grows in a blocked follicle it causes a spot.

the bodies immune system will quickly detect these microbes and begin to attacked using white cells on many types (mainly macrophages) this causes inflamtion dues to chemicles released by the white cells. as time goes by puss occurs signalling death of the bacteria then healing and repair phase.

once we have been exposed once shouldn't our immune system destroy any p .acnes in the follicle before a spot forms? this would be true for any microbe that invades our body. antibodies would still linger in the body, macrophages would be more effective against the bacteria and memory cells would be made. so why are we still prone to them?

Because your body doesn't see the p. acne as an actual threat, hence is why it doesn't get eaten by the macrophages. The acne bacteria are normal, and everyone has it. It's not foreign to our body. This is just a rough guess, I might be way off but that's my 2 cents.

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So let me get this straight, hormones and other factors onset a inflammatory response, but we are not exactly sure how?

Could someone put this all into perspective for me. I get that the bacteria does not play a part and that something is causing the body to inflict an inflammatory response, I just don't get why or where the hormones come in.


Please, use Retin-A. It has nearly eliminated my acne and continues to lighten my red marks.


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So let me get this straight, hormones and other factors onset a inflammatory response, but we are not exactly sure how?

Could someone put this all into perspective for me. I get that the bacteria does not play a part and that something is causing the body to inflict an inflammatory response, I just don't get why or where the hormones come in.

Well, to start off, there are several factors involved in acne formation: hyperkeratinization, sebum (over)production, presence/activity of P. acnes bacteria, and inflammation. Hyperkeratinization is abnormal shedding of skin cells within the follicles, which creates plugs... these "plugged follicles" are called microcomedones... if there is some drainage (of sebum and the other contents), it will become an open comedo, or blackhead. If there is no drainage, it will become a closed comedo, or whitehead, which can become an inflamed lesion, such as a pustule or cyst. So, microcomedones are the precursors to all acne lesions.

The big question, is what causes these factors in the first place, namely, what triggers the formation of microcomedones? The info found earlier in this post is about research involved with the answer to this question. I’ll just sum it all up for you, which will hopefully help you put it into perspective.

Basically, it appears that in most cases, hereditary differences in our skin’s innate immune system make us more likely to produce an immune response to certain internal or external stimuli. The immune response changes the cycle of the sebaceous follicle, increasing the proliferation of skin cells within the follicle… and because of the other substances within the follicles (e.g. keratin, sebum), plugs form (microcomedones), and normal drainage can no longer occur.

The stimuli discussed as the probable triggers of this initial immune response are a combination of androgens, certain hormone receptors, certain regulatory neuropeptides/ cytokines, deficiency in certain anti-oxidants, and certain environmental factors (specifically, stress response or topical stress, diets containing pro-inflammatory substances, and smoking).

A further immune response can result due to chemical changes which occur to the obstructed comedo as it progresses, which is where P. acnes can be involved. At this point, pustules or other inflamed lesions are formed.

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yeah the acne bacteria DOES NOT cause acne. because everyone whether u hav acne or not have the p.acne bacteria. whats causes acne is not just the skin but something deep down internally

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So let me get this straight, hormones and other factors onset a inflammatory response, but we are not exactly sure how?

Could someone put this all into perspective for me. I get that the bacteria does not play a part and that something is causing the body to inflict an inflammatory response, I just don't get why or where the hormones come in.

Well, to start off, there are several factors involved in acne formation: hyperkeratinization, sebum (over)production, presence/activity of P. acnes bacteria, and inflammation. Hyperkeratinization is abnormal shedding of skin cells within the follicles, which creates plugs... these "plugged follicles" are called microcomedones... if there is some drainage (of sebum and the other contents), it will become an open comedo, or blackhead. If there is no drainage, it will become a closed comedo, or whitehead, which can become an inflamed lesion, such as a pustule or cyst. So, microcomedones are the precursors to all acne lesions.

The big question, is what causes these factors in the first place, namely, what triggers the formation of microcomedones? The info found earlier in this post is about research involved with the answer to this question. I’ll just sum it all up for you, which will hopefully help you put it into perspective.

Basically, it appears that in most cases, hereditary differences in our skin’s innate immune system make us more likely to produce an immune response to certain internal or external stimuli. The immune response changes the cycle of the sebaceous follicle, increasing the proliferation of skin cells within the follicle… and because of the other substances within the follicles (e.g. keratin, sebum), plugs form (microcomedones), and normal drainage can no longer occur.

The stimuli discussed as the probable triggers of this initial immune response are a combination of androgens, certain hormone receptors, certain regulatory neuropeptides/ cytokines, deficiency in certain anti-oxidants, and certain environmental factors (specifically, stress response or topical stress, diets containing pro-inflammatory substances, and smoking).

A further immune response can result due to chemical changes which occur to the obstructed comedo as it progresses, which is where P. acnes can be involved. At this point, pustules or other inflamed lesions are formed.

I think most Unified Acne theories could be shoehorned rationally under a framework approximating this description. Even databased's very unconventional melatonin maintenance regimen which heavily relies on tending to pineal melatonin levels through controlled stimulation of the ganglion would seem to be explained under such a framework.

I would wonder though, do people who suffer visible to no acne, are they simply less responsive to stimuli or is it that their autoimmune response is dampened so as to not upset the normal balance and processes of the sebaceous gland?

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There are a lot of factors that come into play.

Unfortunately most people's immune system and immune response isn't as strong and effective as it should be. This is why it is important to get nutrition that feeds your immune system.

Also, many people don't have enough good bacteria to balance out the bad bacteria in their body so this balance is crucial and most people don't get real alive probiotics in their diet anymore.

Also, when you feed the bad bacteria with your diet this helps it grow out of control.

So simply making a few changes can help a lot.

Hope this helps,

David

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There are a lot of factors that come into play.

Unfortunately most people's immune system and immune response isn't as strong and effective as it should be. This is why it is important to get nutrition that feeds your immune system.

Also, many people don't have enough good bacteria to balance out the bad bacteria in their body so this balance is crucial and most people don't get real alive probiotics in their diet anymore.

Also, when you feed the bad bacteria with your diet this helps it grow out of control.

So simply making a few changes can help a lot.

Hope this helps,

David

which changes?

this thread is very confusing. would be awesome if someone could type out a step by step way to get rid of acne using all these methods mentioned (i.e. elimination diet)

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this thread is very confusing. would be awesome if someone could type out a step by step way to get rid of acne using all these methods mentioned (i.e. elimination diet)

Chronic inflammation is at the root of acne formation as well as most health conditions. It has many causes but diet and lifestyle habits are major. What you want is a nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing, anti-inflammatory diet that doesn't include anything you have an intolerance for. And you need to sleep well, keep as natural as possible circadian rhythm, manage stress and be physically active but in ways that do not cause inflammation. Avoid or manage stress. Don't irritate your skin topically.

Keep all meals, drinks and snacks low to moderate glycemic load. It's the impact of the meal that matters, not each and every food. Never drink or snack on sugar without plenty of fiber and fat to lower the glycemic impact.

Eat real, whole nutrient dense food. Limit/avoid sugar, grains-especially gluten grains and refined grain products, hydrogenated/trans fats (margarine, crisco, most fried foods, corn & veggie oil). This means avoiding most commercially prepared foods.

Also limit dairy, especially unfermented and especially from cows. Milk contains hormones meant to make tons of things happen in a rapidly growing infant's body. This causes bad things in our no longer rapidly growing post-adolescent bodies.

The most anti-inflammatory foods are plant foods and fish. Have lots of veggies, fruit, herbs, teas, spices, fish, etc. Try to have only products from pastured animals as much as possible. You want to reduce your intake of omega 6 fats and increase omega 3 and monounsaturated fats. High omega 3 fish like wild salmon, sardines, herring. Farmed trout and certain other fish is also ok depending on where it's from, but avoid farmed salmon. It just isn't a good fish for farming. Avocados, olive oil and products from pastured animals and fish are sources of healthy fats that result in healthy sebum that works.

The most inflammatory foods/meals are anything that spikes your blood sugar/insulin, anything you have an intolerance for, trans fats and high omega 6 sources like grains, grain oils, and products from grain fed animals.

Follow an elimination diet to determine any intolerances you may have. Either follow a very hypoallergenic diet for a couple months, then methodically add foods back in, or methodically eliminate foods starting with the most commonly problematic ones such as grains, nuts, peanuts, soy, eggs, citrus, shellfish, dairy, etc. Perfectly healthy foods could be causing your breakouts.

Try completely avoiding gluten grains and dairy for at least a month. And even if you notice no improvement, they should not be a big part of your diet. Dairy always affects acne for a number of reasons and gluten isn't good for anyone, causing serious harm for some people, and is usually part of some high glycemic food anyway.

Avoid harsh cleansers and topicals. Soap is alkaline. Even tap water is mildly alkaline. Washing with them strips away the acidic layer on the surface of your skin that protects your from microbes. It's restored with sebum and sweat, but in the meantime, your skin is vulnerable.

And then maybe you need to pay extra attention with supplements, foods and habits to address any issue you might have such as gut permeability and other digestion issues, poor liver, thyroid or adrenal function.

More info on all of the above: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/230714-good-things-for-acne-cliff-notes-to-clear-skin-health/

Various environmental pollutants are also factors in inflammation. Perfumes, cosmetics, detergents, Auto exhaust, mercury, all kinds of crap in our water. Maybe be even all the EM waves we now have bouncing around.

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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this thread is very confusing. would be awesome if someone could type out a step by step way to get rid of acne using all these methods mentioned (i.e. elimination diet)

Chronic inflammation is at the root of acne formation as well as most health conditions. It has many causes but diet and lifestyle habits are major. What you want is a nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing, anti-inflammatory diet that doesn't include anything you have an intolerance for. And you need to sleep well, keep as natural as possible circadian rhythm, manage stress and be physically active but in ways that do not cause inflammation. Avoid or manage stress. Don't irritate your skin topically.

Keep all meals, drinks and snacks low to moderate glycemic load. It's the impact of the meal that matters, not each and every food. Never drink or snack on sugar without plenty of fiber and fat to lower the glycemic impact.

Eat real, whole nutrient dense food. Limit/avoid sugar, grains-especially gluten grains and refined grain products, hydrogenated/trans fats (margarine, crisco, most fried foods, corn & veggie oil). This means avoiding most commercially prepared foods.

Also limit dairy, especially unfermented and especially from cows. Milk contains hormones meant to make tons of things happen in a rapidly growing infant's body. This causes bad things in our no longer rapidly growing post-adolescent bodies.

The most anti-inflammatory foods are plant foods and fish. Have lots of veggies, fruit, herbs, teas, spices, fish, etc. Try to have only products from pastured animals as much as possible. You want to reduce your intake of omega 6 fats and increase omega 3 and monounsaturated fats. High omega 3 fish like wild salmon, sardines, herring. Farmed trout and certain other fish is also ok depending on where it's from, but avoid farmed salmon. It just isn't a good fish for farming. Avocados, olive oil and products from pastured animals and fish are sources of healthy fats that result in healthy sebum that works.

The most inflammatory foods/meals are anything that spikes your blood sugar/insulin, anything you have an intolerance for, trans fats and high omega 6 sources like grains, grain oils, and products from grain fed animals.

Follow an elimination diet to determine any intolerances you may have. Either follow a very hypoallergenic diet for a couple months, then methodically add foods back in, or methodically eliminate foods starting with the most commonly problematic ones such as grains, nuts, peanuts, soy, eggs, citrus, shellfish, dairy, etc. Perfectly healthy foods could be causing your breakouts.

Try completely avoiding gluten grains and dairy for at least a month. And even if you notice no improvement, they should not be a big part of your diet. Dairy always affects acne for a number of reasons and gluten isn't good for anyone, causing serious harm for some people, and is usually part of some high glycemic food anyway.

Avoid harsh cleansers and topicals. Soap is alkaline. Even tap water is mildly alkaline. Washing with them strips away the acidic layer on the surface of your skin that protects your from microbes. It's restored with sebum and sweat, but in the meantime, your skin is vulnerable.

And then maybe you need to pay extra attention with supplements, foods and habits to address any issue you might have such as gut permeability and other digestion issues, poor liver, thyroid or adrenal function.

More info on all of the above: http://www.acne.org/...od-t230714.html

Various environmental pollutants are also factors in inflammation. Perfumes, cosmetics, detergents, Auto exhaust, mercury, all kinds of crap in our water. Maybe be even all the EM waves we now have bouncing around.

Thanks for this alternavista. I have several questions if you do not mind me asking

1) You suggest to avoid harsh topicals,cleansings and tap water. My questions are:

A) if i have an acne breakout, is it best not to apply anything to the pimples? Or would you reccomend something like aloe vera (straight from the plant)?

B) I am assuming i should use bottled water to wash/rinse my face?

2)Regarding the natural circadian rhytyhm, i am assuming going to bed 2-4 in the morning and waking up 11-12 is a no-no? Maybe sleeping at 10 and waking up at 8 is ideal?

3) Would you say mahi mahi is an anti inflammatory type of fish? how should these fishes be cooked?

4) what do you think about 100% organic grass fed beef? Is that okay to eat?

5) What about free range chicken (i am trying to find pasteurized)? How about free range pasteurized eggs?

6) Regarding this: "Never drink or snack on sugar without plenty of fiber and fat to lower the glycemic impact." Could you give me an example of what to eat with the sugar? So i am assuming if i ate a sugary snack or meal (so lets say candy), i should be eating foods high fiber and fat with it as well? Could you give me some common examples of these?

7)What do you think about taking vitamin d and fish oil supplement

8)Which ways can i be "active" and it wont cause inflammation

9) your link does not work

thanks!

3)

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Thanks for this alternavista. I have several questions if you do not mind me asking

1) You suggest to avoid harsh topicals,cleansings and tap water. My questions are:

A) if i have an acne breakout, is it best not to apply anything to the pimples? Or would you reccomend something like aloe vera (straight from the plant)?

Yes, aloe vera gel is good. Many swear by tea tree oil but I have never used it. And you could use some form of BHA sparingly.

B) I am assuming i should use bottled water to wash/rinse my face?

Is that about the alkalinity. Then no, you skin will be able to restore acidity after the mild alteration to it caused by slightly alkaline water. I do recommend a chorine filter for your shower though.

2)Regarding the natural circadian rhytyhm, i am assuming going to bed 2-4 in the morning and waking up 11-12 is a no-no? Maybe sleeping at 10 and waking up at 8 is ideal?

They say the deepest most restorative sleep occurs between 10pm and 2am. I would think that varies with time zone, latitude and season, but you get the idea. Your body should start making melatonin as it gets dark and you should sleep within so many hours of that. That is, if you didn't have artificial light messing that up

3) Would you say mahi mahi is an anti inflammatory type of fish? how should these fishes be cooked?

Yes. All fish are anti-inflammatory. Poaching and steaming are nearly always the healthiest ways to cook anything.

4) what do you think about 100% organic grass fed beef? Is that okay to eat?

Yes.

5) What about free range chicken (i am trying to find pasteurized)? How about free range pasteurized eggs?

Yes. provided you aren't intolerant to eggs. It's very common to be allergic to egg whites, although the grains they are fed have a lot to do with that.

6) Regarding this: "Never drink or snack on sugar without plenty of fiber and fat to lower the glycemic impact." Could you give me an example of what to eat with the sugar? So i am assuming if i ate a sugary snack or meal (so lets say candy), i should be eating foods high fiber and fat with it as well? Could you give me some common examples of these?

You could have a few almonds when you have some chocolate, for example. Or just have your sweet, hopefully a small serving, after a good meal in which you ate fat and/or fiber such as meat and vegetables.

7)What do you think about taking vitamin d and fish oil supplement

Depending on where you live and what you do, you probably need to take a D supplement. I live in the south and try to get into the sun when I can, and I still take 2,000 IU.

8)Which ways can i be "active" and it wont cause inflammation

Move around a lot as much as possible every day walking, doing chores, dancing, etc. Occasionally do more intense activity in short bursts like sprinting, climbing stairs or hills, lifting weights. Or play games that mimic this kind of activity.

9) your link does not work

That's because since the upgrade to this site, they changed directory structure which altered the paths (urls) to where things lived. All the links within the boards were broken. For a while there they added some redirect to get you to the new link. But that seems to have been broken when the site went down last weekend.

Hopefully they'll fix it again.

Here's a link that works for more info on all of the above: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/230714-good-things-for-acne-cliff-notes-to-clear-skin-health/


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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This website is helpful at finding anti inflammatory food. You can search for whatever food you want and it will give you the inflammation rating (negative number means inflammatory and positive means anti-inflammatory). It will also give you the estimated glycemic load. Surprisingly, some foods we think as healthy actually have an inflammatory effect, so we could be eating what we consider "healthy" and unknowingly adding up the inflammation. For example, blueberries should be great because they are natural and unrefined. But, one cup is -28, meaning mildly inflammatory. Of course, as long as you are eating other foods in conjunction, you needn't cut out these types of foods. The suggestion is to add up the total for the day and have it come out as a positive number which would mean you have an overall anti-inflammatory effect. :)

I looked up cod liver oil and 1 tablespoon is 1024! I take both that and flaxseed every day. I could not find flax on the site, though...which is weird. Anyhow, I wanted to share that because I know I for one thought all veggies and fruits would be beneficial (which they are in their own unique properties). Maybe that is why some who do the raw fresh diets still have problems? I don't know, just a thought.

Site: http://nutritiondata.self.com/

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So, the very basis is hyperkeratosis and forming microcomedones? Is that right? After that it sets the stage for oil to get trapped and then the otherwise harmless bacteria gorge on it and create problems?

If so, what are the best ways in reducing hyperkeratosis and microcomedones? I know prescriptions products do this, but I am looking for OTC. I have read that both BP and salicyclic acid are mildly effective comedolytics. There are also retinol and sulfur. One of the studies included on this thread said linoleic acid showed a 25% reduction in overall size of microcomedones after 1 month. I have seen that ingredient in Dove facial lotion. I wonder which is more effective?

I have read (and don't know if this true) that pores can be pinched off thus creating a blockage to trap oil. Even if they are clear, if the skin swells, it can create problems. Well, eating an inflammatory diet might cause this? For girls, we start retaining water during our cycles which I suppose could exacerbate the problems of hormone spikes. I don't know about the rest of you but I have a horrible habit of eating salty items at that time which further causes me to bloat. lol To counter that, I try to eat mostly anti-inflammatory foods, plus add flax and cod liver oils. I also drink burdock tea the second half of my cycle since I read it is a diruretic (it is also touted as a blood purifier).

I guess it will take a multiprong attack, though. I know I can't just use one product to get a satisfactory effect, but I also am prone to cysts. I had found success by starting retinol. I started with Neutrogena with it's very minimal concentration because I never used retinol before and wanted to ease into it. My skin did really well and I was able to work up to every night. My skin was becoming much better and my pores clearing. I then went to skinceuticals .3% retinol and started that 2x week . I was using BP mixed with mositurizer in the mornings and on the off days from retinol I would sometimes put on a 10% glycolic cream. My skin really cleaned out (where not breaking out) looks really great. I wasn't get cysts any more and I even made it through Ovulation and pms weeks with no breakouts. However, these last two months around ovulation my skin freaked and I got several cysts, although not super huge and disfiguring types, but painful bumps. I can't tell if they rose from purging (that was the 2nd and third months on skinceuticals) or if it was a reaction from new herbs I was taking or from a new conditioner which I found out had algae extract in it. I am sure the retinol made my skin more sensitive, too..double edged sword! *sigh*

Eventhough the pores should have been clean and regulated, inflammation should be down, and the water retention minimized, it did not stop the cysts from forming. But I do agree that bacteria itself doesn't instigate the problems, since everyone has it. Also, if you just use an anti bacterial soap or cream, you can still get acne. I know oil isn't the culprit because there have been month I have been just an oil slick and had no breakouts whatesoever. I mean so much oil I should be cyst city. lol So the immune response and inflammation really makes sense. Even if the pores are clear, something else may iniate the response, whether an allergen, irritant (cosmetics, etc), food, or whatnot. Stress hormones can cause irritation and loss of immune function in the skin and may compromise the skin barrier.

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I'm not sure if anyone else has said anything like this yet as there is already quite a lot written, but in regards to the original question....

I know that the bacteria that causes acne is actually supposed to be on our skin and acne can occur when it grows out of control. I always saw it as a type of imbalance similar to the way us girls can get (sorry to anyone that finds this kind of stuff icky) vaginal infections. The two most common vaginal infections for women are bacterial vaginosis and yeast infections. The things about these though are that they are not infections of foreign bacteria, but an imbalance of our natural bacteria... which is why they are so difficult to cure.

OKAY I'm about to go off on a bit of a tangent here but in the end it will all come together and get back to the topic of acne...

In the case of a yeast infection: If you attack the infection too aggressively, you may kill too much of the yeast and then end up with a different imbalance like bacterial vaginosis. On the other hand, if you don't kill enough of the yeast, then it overtakes the rest of your good bacteria again and the yeast infection returns.

I know all this because.... I lived it.... for months.... and it sucked. I finally managed to rebalance myself by treating the infection and then LEAVING EVERYTHING ALONE and letting it get back to its natural balance by itself. This meant using pads and not tampons for months. Any girls out there... you can probably imagine how much that sucked.

So I've decided to take the same approach to my acne. I'm currently using Retin-A. Once my skin gets clear (because I'm telling myself it will)... I'll ease off the Retin-A, then DO NOTHING. Just let my skin rebalance itself. I'm hoping this will work. But who really knows?

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I know that the bacteria that causes acne is actually supposed to be on our skin and acne can occur when it grows out of control. I always saw it as a type of imbalance similar to the way us girls can get (sorry to anyone that finds this kind of stuff icky) vaginal infections. The two most common vaginal infections for women are bacterial vaginosis and yeast infections. The things about these though are that they are not infections of foreign bacteria, but an imbalance of our natural bacteria... which is why they are so difficult to cure.

This is true. There should be bacteria. It's the balance that is at question!


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I took anti-histamine for 2 weeks as an experiment, and it did nothing. I have tested positive to allergies, but I do know I suffer from Hey Fever. Allergies (IgE) involve the immune system, as does acne.


''I'm not clever, but I figure if I ask all the questions, somebody else might have all the answers'' - Quote, Me!


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