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Foods that don't call for an Insulin Spike..


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#1 RonP

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:30 AM

Does anybody know of some foods, hopefully descent, that don't spike insulin levels? Do salads? What are the "safe" carbs?

#2 The Great Reizo

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:34 AM

From what I've learned, fruits and veggies are the best general choices for low Glycemic foods. The glycemic index tells you how fast a food is metabolized into sugar and the Glycemic Load tells you how much of an impact it makes on your glucose level. Stay away from anything refined and limit grains (assuming you can tolerate them). You can find many websites with glycemic index/loads. Hope this helps.

#3 rakbs

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:57 AM

If you want to prevent excess insulin, you will have to lower your total carbohydrate intake, regardless of where the carbs come from. I would aim for fewer than 100 a day, for starters.

Fruits and vegetables are good choices, but be wary of fructose in fruit.

Adding fat to your meals also helps with insulin spikes.

#4 shavingwoes

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:21 PM

Fruits are certainly better than refined sugars; but they still do affect insulin. I get my carbs from vegetables only for the moment.

#5 RonP

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 02:41 PM

What is the lowest insulin inducing meal you can think of? You see, I take all my supplements with a big salad, then take PGX before all other meals.

Thanks

#6 moonwalker

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 02:41 PM

Well I depends - if you eat sweats and go to the gym I don't think it will matter. And try to eat carbs in the morning. I do that and it seems to be working.

#7 acne_battle

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE (rakbs @ Apr 9 2008, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want to prevent excess insulin, you will have to lower your total carbohydrate intake, regardless of where the carbs come from. I would aim for fewer than 100 a day, for starters.

Fruits and vegetables are good choices, but be wary of fructose in fruit.

Adding fat to your meals also helps with insulin spikes.


That sounds like dieting and not consuming enough calories. That can cause problems if its done too often

#8 AlexGF

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 03:30 PM

QUOTE (acne_battle @ Apr 9 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (rakbs @ Apr 9 2008, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want to prevent excess insulin, you will have to lower your total carbohydrate intake, regardless of where the carbs come from. I would aim for fewer than 100 a day, for starters.

Fruits and vegetables are good choices, but be wary of fructose in fruit.

Adding fat to your meals also helps with insulin spikes.


That sounds like dieting and not consuming enough calories. That can cause problems if its done too often



Fats have lots of calories more than anything........... I see no problems with that......

#9 xtr3m

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:48 PM

http://www.google.ca...?q=low gl meals

#10 shavingwoes

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE (acne_battle @ Apr 9 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (rakbs @ Apr 9 2008, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you want to prevent excess insulin, you will have to lower your total carbohydrate intake, regardless of where the carbs come from. I would aim for fewer than 100 a day, for starters.

Fruits and vegetables are good choices, but be wary of fructose in fruit.

Adding fat to your meals also helps with insulin spikes.


That sounds like dieting and not consuming enough calories. That can cause problems if its done too often


I've noticed pretty much everyone equates low carb with ketosis now. There is such thing as consuming lowered amounts of carbohydrates while staying out of ketosis which is what I do and I'm sure most other people on here that are on meat & vegetable diets are doing as well.

#11 RonP

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 01:22 AM

How does working out tie in with all this insulin stuff? I work out very frequently, so does that mean I shouldn't be worried about insulin? I know my acne is hormonal, only because I experienced clearing from DIM...Please!!

#12 Mrs. Lovely

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 01:40 AM

How do you suggest getting more fat into your diet? I don't eat meat, so how can I do that?

#13 Constantine

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 03:42 AM

eggs, avocado, seeds, nuts, olive oil, cocnut oil

#14 Mrs. Lovely

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 05:17 AM

I don't do avocado, nuts, or coconut oil, but I'll increase my intake of the others. Thanks for the suggestions!

#15 bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:29 PM

Take some PGX fiber before a meal.

#16 RonP

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (BlessTheFall @ Apr 10 2008, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Take some PGX fiber before a meal.



I've been doing that with all meals that aren't salads. I figure, if PGX will help that much with spikes in insulin...shoudn't I just eliminate all other supplements and stick only with PGX before every meal? What should be my routine?



#17 bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:41 PM

I'm not sure how much nutrients the fiber blocks out because it's ability to swell and all, but I follow pretty much the same plan as yours. Anytime I eat anything that has a mildly high G.L, I go for the PGX. Usually after exercise in the evening I finish up with almong milk with high glycemic carbs and protein and then more protein. I find that that is the best time to take my other supplements (apart from the healthy fats - I take that anytime). I wish I knew about PGX a long time ago. It's fantastic going 5 hours without being hungry (I'm also trying to lose weight. I've been at a halt around 204, since coming down from 254, but can't get lower sad.gif)

#18 Danny©

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:38 AM

It's not so simple for a lot of reason.

First of all there's a difference between "balanced insulin output" and "inbalanced insulin output"
A balanced insulin output is when a food contains nutrients that once broken down requires insulin to be transported to the cell. Now such foods may cause a large insulin secretion but the whole thing is completely benign and harmless. Insulin is just a trasporter and by itself it completely neutral. You provide the body with amino acids and glucose molecules and insulin trasports it to hungry cells. You provide an excess of calories and insulin trasports fatty molecules to adipocites.

Insulin is just "indirectly" implied in the problems seen when insulin is chronically high, just like the postman is indirectly implied in the delivery of threat letters. In fact high insulin levels are a symptom of the problem not the cause. Having high chronic insulin levels and a specific health problems doesn't mean that high insulin level is causing the problem but that the problem is causing the chronic high insulin levels. The most basic problem is one of saturation.

The postman who find all mail boxes full will have a huge load at the end of the route which will keep carrying around. This is what happens when insulin found cell boxes full. Insulin can't deliver. So more insulin is secreted. This is turn cause a metabolic cascade of high IGF-1, high cortisol, low blood sugar, adrenaline rush, triglycerides storing and more. But you're wrong if you think that insulin per se causes this. You eat a food which requires an high insulin synthesis. High amount of insulin are secreted. Insulin delivers to the cells. Insulin goes down to fasting levels. Problems begins only when insulin finds the cell "mail boxes" full and can't deliver. It is by no mean a problem caused by insulin.

Second problem is that proteins are extremely insulinogenic and as much as the body needs insulin to deliver glucose, the body needs insulin to deliver amino acids. So you want low levels of insulin? Stop eating carbs and proteins. At this point you have fat as your only source of energy (you can't live eating just fat but anyway let's go on with the example) the first days you'll have extra protein turnover to turn into glucose and extra glycogen to deplete. When all source of glucose ends and the body gets adapted to using a 70% of ketones bodies glucose will come from fats. The glycerol component of fat will be turned into glucose in the liver and insulin will be secreted to deliver that glucose to cells. Leaving the fact that within as month you'll die, you won't even have achieved your goal of removing insulin spikes.

So given that basically all macronutrients are insulinogenic per se or become insulinogenic through adaptation is not far-fetched to claim that (given the variable of adaption) there's no difference between a mixed meal or eating just protein or just fat, you can't avoid insulin spikes. And it won't far-fetched either to claim that eating per se causes insulin spikes.

The GI is even more of a problem.
First of all it is not a precise value inherent the foods but the average glycemic impact of isolated foods fed to diabetic subjects. So the problems are that each person has a different personal glycemic impact but also that we don't eat just a carrot and wait to digest, we don't eat just 50 grams of rice and wait to digest. We eat meals and within the meal the GI loses a lot of its importance. The subjects are fed the food to test in an overnight fasted state which has 0 relevance to the way we eat (except for breakfast) So at most you can say that the GI is useful to determining the glycemic impact of breakfast foods.

But even more confusing is the fact that the GI is not only determine by the rate of entry of glucose into the blood stream but is also determined by the rate of disappearance of glucose from the systemic circulation. So many low GI foods have not a low GI because there is a lower rate of entry of glucose into the blood stream but because there's a greater insulin response/spike removing glucose from the circulation. What this means is that you will never know what foods are low GI because they are slow carbs and what are GI because they are insulin spikers. The Insulin Index studies already showed that there's no correlation between insulin spike and GI.

If you want to limit the indirect damage of insulin, forget about all of this and make sure to desaturate your cells and never oversaturate them. This means eating healthy foods according to the energetic demands of your body and keep yourself active. Losing body fat and exercizing reverse insulin resistance almost overnight, reducing carbs below 100 grams don't.

#19 bryan

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE (Danny© @ Apr 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So given that basically all macronutrients are insulinogenic per se or become insulinogenic through adaptation is not far-fetched to claim that (given the variable of adaption) there's no difference between a mixed meal or eating just protein or just fat, you can't avoid insulin spikes. And it won't far-fetched either to claim that eating per se causes insulin spikes.


The key word in all of this is "spikes". People want to avoid unnecessarily large SPIKES of insulin. I think people have enough sense to know that they can't eliminate insulin altogether.

QUOTE (Danny© @ Apr 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The GI is even more of a problem.
First of all it is not a precise value inherent the foods but the average glycemic impact of isolated foods fed to diabetic subjects.


The GIs of foods aren't determined by feeding them to diabetic subjects. They are given to normal subjects.

.

#20 Danny©

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:15 AM

QUOTE (bryan @ Apr 11 2008, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The GIs of foods aren't determined by feeding them to diabetic subjects. They are given to normal subjects.


It depends on the study. There are many studies that have contributed to increasing the GI database. I remember the original study was only with diabetic subejcts but maybe the other ones were not.

QUOTE
The key word in all of this is "spikes". People want to avoid unnecessarily large SPIKES of insulin.


There's no such a thing as a food causing an "unecessarily large" spike of insulin.
If that food causes that spike it means that spike is necessary.
This is the key word, necessary vs necessary.
Unecessary insulin spikes are due to the body pumping more insulin because the one already secreted is not being effective and this has more to do with the whole condition of our body, our exercise pattern, sleeping pattern and total calories consumed than the GI of foods.

Of course from a certain point of view you can consider the spike caused by refined crap as "uneccessary" since those food could have provided a smaller inpact if they natural state was maintained.