42 replies to this topic

[LiliVG]

I just found this information about what are called phyto-androgens, the "male" equivalent of phyto-estrogens. They are apparently able to bind to testosterone receptors, imitating androgens, AND stimulating more of your own androgenic activity! Since androgens are solidly associated with acne, I need to find a list of which plants contain these! One food I've found that does is coconut. Can anyone help me compile a list of phyto-androgen-containing foods, and/or find out more about these?
There probably is a balance of phytoestrogens with phytoandrogens in many plants, but I think some foods probably lean more toward to androgenic than the estrogenic and vice versa. I don't know those ratios, but finding a list that contains phytoandrogens at all is a start...

http://www.aphrodisi.../phytoandrogens


**Edit: I will add foods containing phyto-androgens here as I find them**

citrus (triterpenoid fatty acids)
wheat germ oil
coconut
hibiscus
spinach
legumes (peanuts are legumes, are they androgenic?)
celery
parsnips
corn
oats (Avena sativa)
garlic (Allium sativum)
onions
pine nuts

[LiliVG]

Found this...

"...the ketone fraction of wheat germ oil...is androgenic..."

[LiliVG]

Triterpenoids are one such androgenic fatty acid, found in high concentration in Citrus fruit! Maybe that's why citrus gives some people cysts?

Still researching....

[countdown2failure]

Found (on internet): hibiscus, spinach, and legumes: such as soybean, kidney bean, pea, lentil, licorice, etc. may contain phytoandrogen.

[bran88]

hmm but soybeans definitely contain photoestrogens...it probably depends on the ratio of phytoandrogens to phytoestrogens?

[LiliVG]

Found (on internet): hibiscus, spinach, and legumes: such as soybean, kidney bean, pea, lentil, licorice, etc. may contain phytoandrogen.

Awesome! can you provide the link? Also is it all legumes? Peanuts are legumes, maybe that's why they give people problems?

hmm but soybeans definitely contain photoestrogens...it probably depends on the ratio of phytoandrogens to phytoestrogens?

That's a good point, plants do have many compounds

[countdown2failure]

Yeah, from what I am reading, it sounds as if many, if not most plants containing phytoestrogens also contain phytoandrogens, and visa versa. Will probably be very difficult to find out the exact ratios.

[bchapais]

OK .. are you saying that these foods may trigger acne in some people because of their androgenic ability? I'm not sure I follow this. Can you help or explain in laymens terms?

[LiliVG]

OK .. are you saying that these foods may trigger acne in some people because of their androgenic ability? I'm not sure I follow this. Can you help or explain in laymens terms?

Androgens are known to be a trigger of acne, so I figure anything that stimulates/imitates higher androgen levels would make acne worse.

[LiliVG]

Yeah, from what I am reading, it sounds as if many, if not most plants containing phytoestrogens also contain phytoandrogens, and visa versa. Will probably be very difficult to find out the exact ratios.

That's true, plants contain many compounds some of which do counter one another. I don't know how we'd find out the ratios. Since this is kind of a new development in the scientific department, it'll probably be a while before the ratios are known. It could be that some of the foods that make people break out have higher androgen ratios than others. I don't know, it's all still new.

[countdown2failure]

found this:

phytoandrogens may be found in sources such as Serenoa repens, Dalbergia cochinchinensis, Brosimum rubescens, Striga orobanchioides, and Azadurachta indica.

I know the first one is Saw palmetto, which some people are using to treat acne...? I don't think any of the others are in anything that we use or consume... but I may be wrong.

P.S. ^That list in quotes there is vastly incomplete. Trying to find more...

[bchapais]

Oh shit I've been eating alot of raw coconut ( candida killing) and I just got a freaking zit today!!! Oh my, quite possibly the connection!

[LiliVG]

found this:

phytoandrogens may be found in sources such as Serenoa repens, Dalbergia cochinchinensis, Brosimum rubescens, Striga orobanchioides, and Azadurachta indica.

I know the first one is Saw palmetto, which some people are using to treat acne...? I don't think any of the others are in anything that we use or consume... but I may be wrong.

Yeah, a lot of herbs have phytoandrogens too, I'm not so worried about those because most people have to go out of their way to take those. I'm looking for for foods that have phytoandrogens, and it seem from that earlier post that there are several.
And there probably is both phyto androgens along with the phyto estrogens, it's probably a matter of the ratio, or which specific compounds are in the plant, some phytoestrogens/androgens are much stronger than others, so that's probably also a factor.
I'm finding that several foods with a reputation for being an aphodesiacs have phytoandrogens in them, and probably in a ratio leaning more toward the androgenic.

[Mr. Bigger]

What about flax seeds? I know people take flax seeds to balance their hormones, do they contain androgen or are they anti androgenic?

[countdown2failure]

Yeah found flax seeds, also: oatmeal, corn, pine nuts, and celery?

Phytoandrogens have been reported to increase androgen levels and the androgen-to-estrogen ratio in men. Foods containing high levels of phytoandrogens:

* celery
* parsnips
* corn
* oats (Avena sativa)
* garlic (Allium sativum)
* onions
* pine nuts

Foods that lower androgen levels and suppress androgenic activity in men include:

* licorice
* black cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa), which is very high in estrogen and sometimes used to treat hot flashes in menopausal women
* hops, one of the most powerful estrogenic foods
* grapefruit, which interferes with removal of estrogen from the body

EDIT again: Here is the link where I found that

[LiliVG]

Yeah found flax seeds, also: oatmeal, corn, pine nuts, and celery?

Phytoandrogens have been reported to increase androgen levels and the androgen-to-estrogen ratio in men. Foods containing high levels of phytoandrogens:

* celery
* parsnips
* corn
* oats (Avena sativa)
* garlic (Allium sativum)
* onions
* pine nuts

Foods that lower androgen levels and suppress androgenic activity in men include:

* licorice
* black cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa), which is very high in estrogen and sometimes used to treat hot flashes in menopausal women
* hops, one of the most powerful estrogenic foods
* grapefruit, which interferes with removal of estrogen from the body

EDIT again: Here is the link where I found that

That's great, thanks! I'm gonna add those to the list!

It's interesting because some plants may be androgenic, but then have other properties, like for instance, being antibacterial and high in sulfur, like garlic, so the androgenic effect may be masked by other compounds in the plant.

[bran88]

the only two I (think ) I know about for sure are flax seeds and soy: they are both estrogen dominant. I'm fairly sure about that. Another thing to consider is that phyto-hormones are a lot gentler than human hormones. Eating a food that is really androgen heavy often could probably trigger acne, but these are probably not foods that we need to cut out entirely...Also if we are eating enough estrogen dominant foods to counter the androgen dominant foods, I think that it shouldn't be too much of a problem...It would definitely be nice to have a list though!

[countdown2failure]

Damnit, I always wondered if there was some sort of correlation between acne and how much I love putting onions and garlic in everything that I cook.

[LiliVG]

the only two I (think ) I know about for sure are flax seeds and soy: they are both estrogen dominant. I'm fairly sure about that. Another thing to consider is that phyto-hormones are a lot gentler than human hormones. Eating a food that is really androgen heavy often could probably trigger acne, but these are probably not foods that we need to cut out entirely...Also if we are eating enough estrogen dominant foods to counter the androgen dominant foods, I think that it shouldn't be too much of a problem...It would definitely be nice to have a list though!

That's true. In fact, with phyto estrogens, they are sometimes used to reduce the overall estrogenic effect because they bind with the receptor that real estrogen would ordinarily bind to, but since the phytoestrogen is weaker, the overall estrogenic effect is lowered. So it could be that some of these foods have that effect as well on the androgen side. But I agree, a good starting place is to have a list.

[Glass Danse]

ehhh i dont know about this one. at least not for me/men