Jump to content

Photo

Resveratrol


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
93 replies to this topic

#61 Listener

Listener

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 533
    Likes: 3
About Me
  • Joined: 17-October 06

Posted 18 August 2007 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE(thetruth24 @ Aug 17 2007, 06:40 PM) View Post
Sounds Good Listener! Ill keep you updated!

Damn, 10 grams?! How many pills is that?


None! lol
I'm using actual oil. Cod liver oil to be exact, with a higher concentration of omega 3 than usual.
It's just 3 tablespoons a day. One a meal, simple smile.gif

#62 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 18 August 2007 - 05:58 PM

Autonomous,

Man, I find all that stuff very interesting! I dream about curing all kinds of diseases!

#63 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:06 PM

Jemini,

Really? Thats EXACTLY what I want to do. I wanna become a pharmacist, and I know that a strong grasp on chemistry and biology is needed. In you're opinion, is it difficult? What kind of classes are you required to take in order to become a pharmacist. I am enrolled in Bio and Chem, as far as science goes, in this upcoming fall.

Can you do you're on testing and research in college, on acne? I also would like to experiment with all these ideas, but I'm not sure pharmacists have the power to do that.

Best of luck man! Is there any advice you could give me?

Listener,

Cool! I noticed that anything liquid feels alot more effective than pills, not sure why. Whether that be pain killers or that green chlorophyll I've been drinking.

By the way, I would recommend it! It makes all your bowel movements feel so clean and 100%! Chlorophyll is known to detox livers, which can also help with acne!

How is the oil going?

#64 AutonomousOne1980

AutonomousOne1980

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 3,076
    Likes: 51
About Me
  • Joined: 30-June 06

Posted 19 August 2007 - 04:18 AM

heres a random abstract about nutrigenomics

: Acta Vet Hung. 2007 Jun;55(2):229-39.Links
Veterinary aspects and perspectives of nutrigenomics: a critical review.Fekete SG, Brown DL.
Institute of Animal Breeding, Nutrition and Laboratory Animal Science, Faculty of Veterinary Science, Szent István University, H-1400 Budapest, P.O. Box 2, Hungary. Fekete.Sandor@aotk.szie.hu

Nutrigenomics examines nutrient-gene interactions on a genome-wide scale. Increased dietary fat or higher non-esterified fatty acids (NEFA) from starvation-induced mobilisation may enhance hepatic oxidation and decrease esterification of fatty acids by reducing the expression of the fatty acid synthase gene. The key factors are the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs). Dietary carbohydrates--both independently and through insulin effect--influence the transcription of the fatty acid synthase gene. Oleic acid or n-3 fatty acids downregulate the expression of leptin, fatty acid synthase and lipoprotein lipase in retroperitoneal adipose tissue. Protein-rich diets entail a shortage of mRNA necessary for expression of the fatty acid synthase gene in the adipocytes. Conjugated linoleic acids (CLAs) are activators of PPAR and also induce apoptosis in adipocytes. Altered rumen microflora produces CLAs that are efficient inhibitors of milk fat synthesis in the mammary gland ('biohydrogenation theory'). Oral zinc or cadmium application enhances transcription rate in the metallothionein gene. Supplemental CLA in pig diets was found to decrease feed intake and body fat by activating PPARgamma-responsive genes in the adipose tissue. To prevent obesity and type II diabetes, the direct modulation of gene expression by nutrients is also possible. Nutrigenomics may help in the early diagnosis of genetically determined metabolic disorders and in designing individualised diets for companion animals.


I just found out that apolipoprotein a- I gene expression could be regulated by ppar alpha.

: Eur J Pharmacol. 2006 Dec 3;551(1-3):80-6. Epub 2006 Sep 6. Links
Anti-hyperlipidemic properties of CM108 (a flavone derivative) in vitro and in vivo.Guo L, Hu WR, Lian JH, Ji W, Deng T, Qian M, Gong BQ.
State Key Laboratory of Bioreactor Engineering, East China University of Science and Technology, Shanghai 200237, China. glei77@sohu.com

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) and liver X receptor alpha are ligand-activated transcription factors that belong to nuclear receptors superfamily and are involved in the regulation of lipid metabolism. PPAR, especially PPAR-alpha, PPAR-gamma agonists and liver X receptor alpha agonists can regulate the expression or biosynthesis of some factors involved in the formation and function of HDL, such as apolipoprotein (apo) A-I and ATP binding cassette transporter A1 (ABCA1). It is well known that HDL plays an important role in the treatment of hyperlipidemia as the carrier of reverse cholesterol transport. In the present study, the anti-hyperlipidemic properties of CM108, a derivative of flavone, 9-Hydroxy-2-mercapto-6-phenyl-2-thioxo-1,3,5-trioxa-2lambda(5)-phospha-cyclopenta[b]naphthalen-8-one, were studied. Through the transactivation assays of in vitro study, it was discovered that CM108 could activate PPAR-alpha PPAR-gamma and liver X receptor alpha at 40-150 microg/ml, which subsequently resulted in activating ABCA1 promoter and enhancing apoA-I and apoA-II production, whereas reducing apoC-III production significantly. Furthermore, after in vivo study that the hyperlipidemic rats were treated with CM108 for 4 weeks, a significant increase was found in HDL cholesterol levels (26.7%, P<0.05) and a significant decrease was also noticed in triglyceride levels (26.3%, P<0.01) at 100 mg/kg CM108 group compared with that of control animals. Meanwhile, the atherogenicity index, represented by total cholesterol/HDL ratio, was significantly reduced (P<0.01). In conclusion, CM108 can effectively elevate HDL levels and lower triglyceride levels in hyperlipidemic rats maybe by regulating a series of genes, receptors and proteins related to HDL.

since it is known that people with acne have low levels of apolipoprotein a-I sseing now its relationship to ppar alpha is also a good thing. so far ppar alpha could possibly improve two big opponents in acne, sebum production and apolipoprotein a-I or so it seems.

#65 jemini

jemini

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 548
    Likes: 0
About Me
  • Joined: 20-January 05

Posted 19 August 2007 - 01:43 PM

Interesting study. Again, acne sufferers generally have lower a1 levels. Activating ppar alpha, in conjunction with some other receptors seem increase these a1 levels.

Thetruth: Yes, a strong science background is required. At my school, pharmacy is a 6 year total program. 2 years of prereqs, then 4 years in the Pharmacy school. It wouldn't say its hard if you have a knack for science. But it all really depends. The subjects can be challenging, but being "hard" depends on the teacher, the grading and your work ethic. I will say this about being a Pharm major, when all your buddies are drinkin on a Wednesday night, you'll be up studying for your organic chem exam. Expect this to be the norm.
I will say this though. I strongly DISCOURAGE you from going into the Pharmacy. The education is rewarding, but the actual job I find, is not. You bust your ass getting this primo education, only to most likely waste it behind the counter at CVS or Walgreens. You get paid well out of college, true, but the job is monotonous, stressful and with computers now a days, the pharmacist is there "just in case." the computer systems identify the pill and look up any drug interactions, so the pharmacist is mostly just manages a team of techs and double checks the prescriptions (the techs count the pills). After working "in the system" so to speak I can see how flawed it is. Pharmacists are almost obsolete with the developing technology, they remain mostly as an antiquated safeguard. They get overpaid since they have a degree, but will almost never be required to use that education they worked hard for. I also think its messed up you get paid close to 100,000 to stand behind the counter while the World War II vet on the other side has to spend 500 bucks a month to pay for his pills, and he wonders why they are so expensive. In a few decades, traditional pharmacists will become obsolete as computers fill more and more of the roles. You could also work in a hospital which I also found to be boring as well (though better than a Chain store). You could go into research, which require more schooling after 6 years, and that is what I was going to do. But I decided I didn't want to narrow myself to just pharmaceutical research because I find it all interesting. So I switched to a microbio degree, which is basically a general "I want to work in a lab someday" degree

#66 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:36 PM

Thats some great research Autonomous! Thanks for sharing.

I thought though, that PPAR alpha maybe the downregulated receptor, while gamma and delta were working "regularly". Earlier in this thread, it was suggested that there maybe an unbalance between receptors which can cause acne. I know this study though involves lipid metabolism and how upregulating alpha can help control sebum.

What is currently available to act as an alpha, gamma, and liver x receptor agonist?

Thanks

#67 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:40 PM

Thanks for the advice Jemini.

The thing though, is that I am very interested in medicine. I would like to go into research, but as you stated, that is too many years to be in school. My family is not financially "great", so 6+ years of college will be too hefty. I thought that since I am interested in medicine, and pharmacist get paid alot to deal with medicine, why not take that route? I honestly, don't mind the idea of working behind a counter, at least not yet. I will take you're thoughts into consideration though. My goal is to get a job in something that I would enjoy, or at least, not hate.

Thanks

#68 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:47 PM

It's crazy though, that there are so many ideas of why we get acne, what causes excess sebum and what causes hyperkeratinization.

I guess the main stay of belief for the cause of excess sebum is either:
Lipid Metabolism
Androgens/PPARs

The causes of excess sebum are such a main focus. I wonder why no one tries to find out what causes hyperkeratinization. Obviously there is a genetic factor, but still. There are theories that sebum composition, or androgens and their interactions with PPARs cause hyperkeratinization, but there aren't that many studies on it. Maybe if there were more, we could either link the connection between excess oil and irregular shedding, or find out that real causes it.

Can anybody share some studies regarding hyperkeratinization? Thanks

That said, it seems like Accutane is really the only rthing that fixes these factors responsible in the pathogensis of acne. Isotretinoin deals with the RXR receptor, but are there any other receptors that are involved?

I'm really really tired, and am working on about 4 hours sleep in two days, so some of my stuff will be sloppy or my questions may not make sense.

#69 AutonomousOne1980

AutonomousOne1980

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 3,076
    Likes: 51
About Me
  • Joined: 30-June 06

Posted 20 August 2007 - 03:45 AM

QUOTE(thetruth24 @ Aug 19 2007, 10:47 PM) View Post
It's crazy though, that there are so many ideas of why we get acne, what causes excess sebum and what causes hyperkeratinization.

I guess the main stay of belief for the cause of excess sebum is either:
Lipid Metabolism
Androgens/PPARs

The causes of excess sebum are such a main focus. I wonder why no one tries to find out what causes hyperkeratinization. Obviously there is a genetic factor, but still. There are theories that sebum composition, or androgens and their interactions with PPARs cause hyperkeratinization, but there aren't that many studies on it. Maybe if there were more, we could either link the connection between excess oil and irregular shedding, or find out that real causes it.

Can anybody share some studies regarding hyperkeratinization? Thanks

That said, it seems like Accutane is really the only rthing that fixes these factors responsible in the pathogensis of acne. Isotretinoin deals with the RXR receptor, but are there any other receptors that are involved?

I'm really really tired, and am working on about 4 hours sleep in two days, so some of my stuff will be sloppy or my questions may not make sense.

yes i am fascinated by how accutane can just wipe out acne in most cases, and thats where i started learning about rxr and also lead to my interest in ppars and how they also affect rxr and change gene transcription.

Id like to go back again and increase my knowledge of how accutane works to gain some more insight, but ive already invested so much time in to reading studies i know a good amount so i can only justify only a few hours a week.

#70 jemini

jemini

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 548
    Likes: 0
About Me
  • Joined: 20-January 05

Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:08 AM

Well, it looks like I might be wrong on some things. I found a study on another messageboard about how acne sufferers might suffer from an overactive cyp450 gene.
http://www.drugtalk....p/t-254590.html
Its at the bottom. Also, ppars have been linked with all sorts of skin function including keritinization, differentiation etc etc. But after skimming the studies I couldn't really tell you anymore than that. Also I know labgirl had some good posts in detail how retinoids work. I can't seem to find it now.

#71 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 20 August 2007 - 03:53 PM

Autonomous,

Me too! Since I've learned that it has something to do with the RXR receptors, I've been thinking about the significance of it, and the roles it plays in the pathogenesis of acne. (Sebum and hyperkeratinization).

How come some people though, don't respond to accutane?

Jemini,

Thanks for sharing that study! I still agree though, that although they might have an overactive gene, the effects would have to be pretty "big" to cause acne, in which we would see other detrimental effects.

Retinoids don't seem to be able to penetrate the skin deep enough to make the necessary changes though. Maybe thats why it takes weeks and weeks to see any kind of improvement. Perhaps all these topicals are very effective, but the carrier isn't strong enough to penetrate the skin.

#72 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 20 August 2007 - 03:59 PM

OK for everyone!

What do you guys think about adrenal disorders and acne?

Someone in this forum said taking adrenal fatigue support supplements helped him get rid of his acne.

To me this makes a lot of sense since the adrenal glands are responsible for many of the hormones of the body. Come to think about it I feel like I suffer from adrenal fatigue, by looking at the symptoms. Maybe you're hormones are out of whack and aren't in balance.

Just wanted to see what you guys thought

#73 jemini

jemini

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 548
    Likes: 0
About Me
  • Joined: 20-January 05

Posted 21 August 2007 - 12:53 PM

First, about the adrenal fatigue supplements. I would like to know whats in them to be able to fairly judge. But in general, I tend to doubt that acne is caused by overactive adrenals. True, there are certain hormones created by the adrenals. If I recall my science class, epinephrine and norepinephine are made in the medulla I think and things like cortisol and aldosterone are made in the cortex. All I know is that if any of these hormones were at abnormal levels, you would have side effects beyond acne. Epinephrine could cause acne in excess, that is why people breakout after extensive periods of stress or worry. Perhaps during finals week or you jumped out of airplanes for a living. But I really don't believe acne is caused by overactive adrenals.

My belief is that acne is actually a reflection of the genetic variance which has helped us survive over the millenia as a species. Say for instance, acne is caused by an "overactive" or over stimulated ppar, say either alpha or gamma, or even beta/delta. Variance in each one would cause people to have different body shapes. Say one person had too much ppar gamma, not only would they might have acne, but they would be more likely to store fat, (ppars are mainly associated with energy metabolism). PPar gamma agonist drug Avandia is used for diabetics. People with high blood sugar need to get the sugar out, so by stimulating ppar gamma causes one to pull the sugar out of the blood and create fat instead. Say way back in the cave man days there was little food around, those who were able to store fat easier might actually have a survival edge. I'm not saying this specific instance is the case, but the idea that the tendency to have acne is actually an expression of some sort of genetic variance which might offer some of the population a better chance to survive, at least in terms of Darwinian evolution.

I wonder if the rxr receptor actually has anything to do with acne control at all, and not just its ability to form heterodimers with other receptors. To test the idea, one could design a drug that bound just as tightly to the rxr or rar receptors as accutane, but didn't cause the same powerful transcription effect. In otherwords kind of like a partial agonist/antagonist. That way it would bind up the other nuclear receptors, but would only cause a "signal" at the retinoid receptor at approximately normal levels. Ah, if only such a chemical existed. If this chemical were to exist, it could be just as effective as accutane, but perhaps with fewer side effects. It would still probably raise triglycerides though.


#74 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 22 August 2007 - 08:56 PM

Jemini,

Here is what I am taking for adrenal fatigue.

http://www.enzy.com/...;partcode=04035

Thats a pretty interesting theory. So maybe acne is just another "side effect" of a larger genetic predisposition?

I checked out the pinned retinoids thread, where RARs and RXRs were discussed. Well I guess these receptors are found in the skin and thats how retinoids help. They are agonists for these receptors and normalize cell differenitiation. So yeah, maybe since these agonists bind to these receptors, ppars are not able to form them.

What are your thoughts on topical isotretinoin?

#75 Listener

Listener

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 533
    Likes: 3
About Me
  • Joined: 17-October 06

Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:54 AM

Is it your belief (you three) that the aspect of our physiology that accutane changes is in fact the aspect that is worng in the first place?
I mean things like benzoyl peroxide etc.. are not fixing the actual problem. (Our skin isn't oily and keratinous because it is too low pH, yet the acidic peeling effect of BP will still aid in desquamation)

Follow through question is: If it corrects the underlying problem then why does it have certain side effects that people with naturally clear skin don't get?
Like dry eyes and joint pains etc.. Is it to do with the large dosage.... I'mnot sure myself, but the 13-cis-Retinoic Acid supplementation idea is starting to really peak my interest. I've got uni coming up and i really don't want to waste years waiting to try isotretinoin and then finally go on it and be like: 'dayum why the hell didn't i do this 6 years ago?!?!'

Btw the fish oil is going okay. I've been abroad and had a higher glycemic load than usual. I have been consistent with the fish oil though, 7 grams omega 3 a day still. I can definitely say i don't think it is making i worse like i thought last time. I've only been doing it for just over two weeks so far and i've had some big nights out and diet blowouts along the way so i got some hope for it.
I discontinued chromium because i no longer think insulin resistance is an important enough underlying factor.

QUOTE(thetruth24 @ Aug 22 2007, 08:56 PM) View Post
Jemini,

Here is what I am taking for adrenal fatigue.

http://www.enzy.com/...;partcode=04035

Thats a pretty interesting theory. So maybe acne is just another "side effect" of a larger genetic predisposition?

I checked out the pinned retinoids thread, where RARs and RXRs were discussed. Well I guess these receptors are found in the skin and thats how retinoids help. They are agonists for these receptors and normalize cell differenitiation. So yeah, maybe since these agonists bind to these receptors, ppars are not able to form them.

What are your thoughts on topical isotretinoin?



I have tried isotrex before. Not on my face though. I can say that it was very irritating. Enough so to discontinue it. It even warned against leaving it not rubbed in, because it could gather in a crease on the face and cause extreme peeling.

My belief is that is merely converts to retinoic acid on the skin and acts like a peeling agent and has none of the systemic effects of oral retinoids.

#76 Listener

Listener

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 533
    Likes: 3
About Me
  • Joined: 17-October 06

Posted 27 August 2007 - 04:09 AM

I chanced upon two small quotes that seemed to relate Vitamin A with both the fat metabolism issue and the liver issue I don't actually understand what the issue with liver and acne is but w/e).

'Fat malabsorption can result in diarrhea and prevent normal absorption of vitamin A. Over time this may result in vitamin A deficiency. '

'Healthy adults usually have a reserve of vitamin A stored in their livers and should not be at risk of deficiency during periods of temporary or short-term fat malabsorption. Long-term problems absorbing fat, however, may result in deficiency. In these instances physicians may recommend additional vitamin A '

I came across them when i was researching side effects of high Vitmain A intake. The quotes are probably of no significance tho.

Would taking isotretinoin/13 cis retinoic acid cause the same toxicity symptoms?


#77 thetruth24

thetruth24

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 119
    Likes: 1
About Me
  • Joined: 25-April 07

Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:49 PM

Listener,

I think the reason people suffer from those side effects is because, like you said, the dosage is too high. Ask people who took really lose dosage accutane. Most if not all, experienced no side effects, and if they did, it diminished. Of course it took longer to see results, but we all know nothing happens over night. If you had a vitamin A deficiency, it would take a little bit of time for our bodies to change.

Fat metabolism has really got me interested as well. Conenzyme A is suppose to help with lipid metabolism, so thats probably why people have had success with the product Viliante, or whatever its called. Earlier in this thread autonomous was talking about the receptors, and how alpha produces something that helps with lipid metabolism. So maybe, as mentioned before, we need to find something to upregulate the alpha receptor.

Can anyone explain what the other receptors do though? (Gamma, Delta)?

Thanks for the isotrex feedback. I thought though, that retinoids bind to the receptors on our skin that regulate keratinization? The peely dry skin slowly diminishes and they still get relatively clear skin.

#78 Packerfan785

Packerfan785

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,128
    Likes: 2
About Me
  • Joined: 03-June 08

Posted 06 June 2009 - 06:17 PM

I think its time to bump this thread.

#79 Wally

Wally

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 362
    Likes: 0
About Me
  • Joined: 05-October 02

Posted 15 June 2009 - 01:33 AM

This is a great post filled with tons of research! Are any of the original posters still around? I'd be curious to see if any of their theories panned out/what new research they have discovered!

#80 Mr. Crab

Mr. Crab

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 462
    Likes: 0
About Me
  • Joined: 13-April 09

Posted 17 June 2009 - 05:35 PM

I'm going to try some Biotivia Bioforte Trans-Resveratrol. This is very interesting stuff. I've heard of a few cases where it helped a lot, and no bad experiences, so we will see if it does anything for me. This thread needs a BUMP!