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#1 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 11:56 AM

Most experts are 'liver blind' with respect to the role of liver glycogen in human metabolism.
There is no general awareness of the importance of maintaining adequate liver glycogen.
If physicians, exercise physiologists, nutritionists, athletes and coaches are not aware of it, one can scarcely expect the public to be conscious of this.
It's important to optimize liver glycogen as it is essential at a time when a well-stocked liver is necessary for repair and recovery during the night.

Honey optimizes liver glycogen storage via fructose and glucose uptake, honey activates sleep via the insulin-melatonin (HYMN) cycle, honey promotes optimal body recovery (fat burning) during the night fast and honey promotes good health via prevention of overproduction of the adrenal stress hormones.

Why honey?

Because honey contains a 1:1 glucose to fructose ratio. This is optimal.

After the fructose passes through the gut wall via its own specialized transport mechanism, it is acted upon by fructokinase and is taken from the portal circulation into the liver. Fructose liberates the glucose enzyme, glucokinase, which has been locked in the liver cell nucleus. This allows glucose uptake into the liver.

The fructose is converted to glucose and stored as liver glycogen.
Glucose, with the assistance of fructose, enters the liver and is also converted to liver glycogen. Fructose releases the enzyme, glucokinase, which facilitates glucose uptake into the liver. So fructose acts as a kind of glucose regulator.

Glucokinase is a very fickle hormone, a very lazy hormone. It spends most of its time locked away inside the nuclei of liver cells. It will not act until liberated by fructose. This phenomenon is well documented in the literature and is known as the Glucose Paradox. Grains are essentially starch and are quickly converted into glucose in our bodies. This glucose, in our modern diets, presents the portal circulation with a large glucose dose. But without fructose to liberate glucokinase, little glucose is taken into the liver. When the liver is provided with fructose and glucose together, the fructose liberates the glucose enzyme, and allows for optimal liver uptake of glucose which is then converted to glycogen. We call this the Fructose Paradox.

Other sources of the 1:1 ratio of glucose/fructose found in honey are all fruits and vegetables

But it we wanted to invent a safe, healthy food, ideal for replenishing the liver prior to bed to optimize the body's recovery mechanisms, it would be honey. Nature provides it so we need not invent it.

Honey has been recommended for stomach ailments and multiple other human conditions for centuries. Honey reduces production of the stress hormone cortisol, and cortisol is a risk for gastric ulcers. Honey is powerfully anti-infective and is known to inhibit the growth of the helicobacter bacteria, known to cause ulcers. Honey promotes growth of the probiotic bacteria essential for good intestinal tract biology.

The fuel the body use during rest for recovery and rebuilding of damaged tissues is FAT primarily body fat.

The effect of going to bed with a depleted liver is to place brain metabolism at risk and puts the whole recovery process on hold. So the brain activates the adrenal glands to release stress hormones -- adrenalin and cortisol.

They mobilize alternative fuel stores (primarily free fatty acids and protein from muscle tissue). The protein is carried to the liver and converted to glucose to maintain fuel supply to the brain. Such chronic release of adrenalin and cortisol during the night fast contributes to a series of degenerative conditions associated with the modern diet such as osteoporosis and insulin resistance that may lead to type 2 diabetes.

Refueling the liver prior to bed protects brain metabolism during the night fast, by maintaining a stable blood sugar. With an energy-stocked liver and stable fuel supply, the brain will activate the pituitary gland. The pituitary gland organizes release of recovery hormones during Slow Wave Sleep. Slow Wave Sleep is recovery sleep, when the brain waves are at their slowest. This is when repair and maintenance of damaged tissues and construction of new cells gets underway.

But the body must have the resources available for this repair -- protein from the evening meal and a stable blood sugar that comes as a result of an optimally fueled liver.
Honey is the best food for refueling the liver prior to bed.

After consuming honey prior to bed time some glucose will pass through the liver circulation into the general circulation and cause a mild spike in blood sugar and will cause a mild insulin spike. Insulin activates sleep by promoting uptake of tryptophan into the brain. In the brain, tryptophan is converted to serotonin. Serotonin plays a pivotal role in control of mood in human brain function. Serotonin is eventually converted to melatonin when we switch off the light (darkness activated). Melatonin inhibits the production of insulin. When insulin production is inhibited by melatonin, blood sugar is stabilized (blood sugar does not fall precipitously).

This cycle is critical for the maintaining a stable blood sugar during the night time and we call it the Honey-Insulin-Melatonin Cycle (HYMN).
The HYMN cycle is essential for the body to recover and repair itself.
If the cycle is not completed and blood sugar stabilized, the adrenal glands will be activated and release those stress hormones which halt recovery.

At rest, the body gets 70% of its fuel from fat and 30% from glycogen or glucose.
The fat comes from body fat stores. The glycogen or glucose comes from the liver.
During sleep, up to 70% of the fuel needed for metabolism comes from body fat!

During moderately intense aerobic exercise on the other hand , only 20% of the required fuel comes from fat. At rest, we burn 70% fat for metabolism. With light exercise, we might get 35% of our energy requirements from fat; with moderately intense exercise this drops to 20% and with intense exercise, we only get 10% or the required energy from fat.

On average, one hour of moderately intense aerobic exercise on the treadmill will burn around 600 calories. But we get only 20% of our energy from fat during moderately intense exercise. Twenty percent of 600 calories or 120 fat calories are burned in one hour of exercise. One gram of fat provides 9 calories so a total of about 13.3 grams of fat are burned in one hour of moderate aerobic exercise -- about half an ounce or 0.0485 pounds.

Besides only half of the fat burned during moderate exercise comes from body fat stores.
The rest comes from muscle fat. So one hour on the treadmill burns up less than quarter of an ounce or only 0.02425 pounds of body fat.

This means that we can burn more fat during sleep than in the gym, considerably more"
And during sleep, the fat we burn is all body fat, provided of course that the liver is fueled prior to bedtime. An average 180 pound male will burn about 70 fat calories per hour or 560 fat calories during eight hours of sleep, thus consuming more than 60 grams or 0.1323 pounds.

So the notion that exercise burns body fat is for the most part a myth.
While it's true that during moderately intense aerobic exercise, as much as 20% of the energy required comes from fat, only half of that or 10% comes from body fat.

If the liver becomes depleted of glycogen stores prior to bed, the brain activates release of adrenalin and cortisol. Initially adrenaline releases any remaining glucose from the liver. Adrenalin is also responsible for the relea se of free fatty acids into the blood stream.

Cortisol is a very powerful glucocorticoid hormone or steroid. Its main job when the body is under stress is to make sure there is enough fuel (glucose) to meet the energy demand. It does this by degrading muscle protein so that it can be turned into glucose for the brain. Chronic overproduction of cortisol can be very harmful to the body.
It degrades bone which can lead to osteoporosis and suppresses hormonal production.
In addition, increased cortisol levels are associated with memory loss, depression, gastric ulcers, poor immune function and obesity.

Honey refuels the liver in a very efficient way and in doing so, activates sleep, promotes recovery (fat burning) physiology and reduces production of stress hormones.

It's worth mentioning that chronic high levels of cortisol and adrenalin are extremely negative for skin health, conditions and acne.

#2 Bobby Digital

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:10 PM

Wow, props, thats incredible information.

So your supposed to have some honey at night before sleep? How much? Just any honey and drink it or what? I've never been a honey person so i have no idea...

EDIT: By the way, any sources would be great. I'd like to share this with some people...

#3 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE(Bobby Digital @ Aug 2 2007, 12:10 PM) View Post
Wow, props, thats incredible information.

So your supposed to have some honey at night before sleep? How much?


1 spoonful or 2

QUOTE
Just any honey and drink it or what? I've never been a honey person so i have no idea...


You can just eat it plain, or dissoluted in a cup of warm water or dropped in a piece or fruit or a bowl of berries or in a green smoothie (but straight from the jar and dissoluted in water is more handy)

Of course it's important to be sure the honey is high quality and possibly organic from bees not fed artificial substances and from honey which is not left cristalize in the factories. Organic, artigianal and fresh ... that's what you want.

QUOTE
EDIT: By the way, any sources would be great. I'd like to share this with some people...


Strange, I remember I posted the address ... it disappeared

http://hibernationdiet.blogspot.com/

#4 groove88

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:59 PM

Yeh right, dam good post Danny!

With regards to the burning fat part, where does the burning of the visercal fat part come in? Is it a fat that gets equally burned with body fat, does it burn last, and does excercise still burn it the best?

sorry for 21 questions lol

G

#5 notadoctor

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:04 PM

This is pretty worthless. I don't really know why I thought if I read through the whole thing that I would get anything interesting out it, and now I am continuing to waste my time by replying on this thread.

P.S. Glucokinase is an enzyme and not a hormone.

#6 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 01:04 PM) View Post
P.S. Glucokinase is an enzyme and not a hormone.


typo

In fact on like 16 you can read:

"the glucose enzyme, glucokinase"

By the way: honey is absolutely paleo.
It was consumed in the paleolithic (as rests testify) and it is consumed by most hunter-gatherers and it is consider paleo-compatible in all paleo-nutrition literature.

#7 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE(groove88 @ Aug 2 2007, 12:59 PM) View Post
Yeh right, dam good post Danny!

With regards to the burning fat part, where does the burning of the visercal fat part come in? Is it a fat that gets equally burned with body fat, does it burn last, and does excercise still burn it the best?

sorry for 21 questions lol


Fats seems to go away in relation of how it is stored. The last place you store your fat is the first place it will be burned from. That's why for example people who are skinny, thin but have visceral fat accumulated in their "beer belly" will lose fat there first and won't have to lose the last bit of fat in the face (becoming an emaciated skeleton) before losing it in the belly.

#8 Healthoid

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 04:23 PM

QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post
This is pretty worthless. I don't really know why I thought if I read through the whole thing that I would get anything interesting out it, and now I am continuing to waste my time by replying on this thread.

LOL, I agree. Lots of words, no susbstance.

#9 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:09 PM

QUOTE(Healthoid @ Aug 2 2007, 04:23 PM) View Post
QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post
This is pretty worthless. I don't really know why I thought if I read through the whole thing that I would get anything interesting out it, and now I am continuing to waste my time by replying on this thread.

LOL, I agree. Lots of words, no susbstance.


Well, the substance is the conclusion; the lot of words is just for those who want some explanation. The substance according to this information is the importance of never leaving your liver depleted. It's not posted here to be meant as the one-fits-all solution or as gospel, no thanks ... that it typical of paleo zealots. It's just another possible helpful tool of the trade people can use. And no, the paleo stuff is not the solution to all the problems of the worlds ... we you and notadoctor should stop pretending an information if irrelevant just because it is not included in your paleo gospel; and in that regard I think every extra info is always appreciated in this forum which has an extremely high rate of paleo-diet dropouts and failure-to-thrive ... and no, it's not their fault.

#10 Kodi

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:45 PM

Thanks for posting, will finish reading after exam-revising (arrg provincial exam). Just wanted to say don't buy crap honey from any store, find a unpasturized, raw organic source.

#11 Healthoid

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE(Danny© @ Aug 2 2007, 04:09 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Healthoid @ Aug 2 2007, 04:23 PM) View Post
QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post
This is pretty worthless. I don't really know why I thought if I read through the whole thing that I would get anything interesting out it, and now I am continuing to waste my time by replying on this thread.

LOL, I agree. Lots of words, no susbstance.


Well, the substance is the conclusion; the lot of words is just for those who want some explanation. The substance according to this information is the importance of never leaving your liver depleted. It's not posted here to be meant as the one-fits-all solution or as gospel, no thanks ... that it typical of paleo zealots. It's just another possible helpful tool of the trade people can use. And no, the paleo stuff is not the solution to all the problems of the worlds ... we you and notadoctor should stop pretending an information if irrelevant just because it is not included in your paleo gospel; and in that regard I think every extra info is always appreciated in this forum which has an extremely high rate of paleo-diet dropouts and failure-to-thrive ... and no, it's not their fault.

Perhaps your thread will be useful for some people, but perhaps it will also lead people down a blind alley. All these honey benefits sound great on paper, but let's see some results.

#12 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:04 PM

QUOTE(Healthoid @ Aug 2 2007, 05:51 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Danny© @ Aug 2 2007, 04:09 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Healthoid @ Aug 2 2007, 04:23 PM) View Post
QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post
This is pretty worthless. I don't really know why I thought if I read through the whole thing that I would get anything interesting out it, and now I am continuing to waste my time by replying on this thread.

LOL, I agree. Lots of words, no susbstance.


Well, the substance is the conclusion; the lot of words is just for those who want some explanation. The substance according to this information is the importance of never leaving your liver depleted. It's not posted here to be meant as the one-fits-all solution or as gospel, no thanks ... that it typical of paleo zealots. It's just another possible helpful tool of the trade people can use. And no, the paleo stuff is not the solution to all the problems of the worlds ... we you and notadoctor should stop pretending an information if irrelevant just because it is not included in your paleo gospel; and in that regard I think every extra info is always appreciated in this forum which has an extremely high rate of paleo-diet dropouts and failure-to-thrive ... and no, it's not their fault.

Perhaps your thread will be useful for some people, but perhaps it will also lead people down a blind alley.


No, it's rather simple ... if it does work good, if it doesn't stop obsessing with it and find something else. The point is to focus some more on liver glycogen and it's not a spefici matter of honey and fruits and veggies do the trick too. But even in the honey instance it's just 1 tbs, for the rest of the day one must still eat healthy food, avoid junk or foods to which one is allergic, obtaining enough protein and so on. If it works one should realize it immediately by a more restful sleep, more energy in the morning, less cravings and thirst and depression.
If it doesn't ... it's not like the whole lifestyle has been compromised. I don't buy the hype but the principle is sound and correct.

#13 notadoctor

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:06 PM

I don't really think the Paleo diet is the answer to everything. I think it has a lot of good things you can take from it, but everybody has to do what they feel is right for themselves. I occasionally eat potatoes and starchy vegetables and occasionally eat legumes, and it does not seem to cause problems. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions. I also don't think that you should knock the Paleo Diet if it works for people. The idea that legumes were not part of a Paleolithic humans diets can be argued, and whether or not they are good for you is disputable. I think the main ideas behind the Paleo Diet are to lower the Glycemic Load of the foods you eat, consume less Table Salt, consume a good ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6, and avoid cereal grains and milk. If it was just that I think that it would be pretty hard to argue with.

You act like what you are saying is so profound, but it just ends up being boring. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions.

#14 allo12345

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:06 PM

Dude this is really good information, thanks

I'm going to take some honey everyday for now on. It's not like it wasn't tasty after all.

#15 Charybdis

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:18 PM

god i love honey, i simply must buy some tomorrow, fuck going out getting drunk, i'll stay in with a pot of honey biggrin.gif

#16 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 06:06 PM) View Post
I don't really think the Paleo diet is the answer to everything. I think it has a lot of good things you can take from it, but everybody has to do what they feel is right for themselves. I occasionally eat potatoes and starchy vegetables and occasionally eat legumes, and it does not seem to cause problems. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions.


Read it again.
The whole post could have been.
Pay attention to your liver glycogen because it's the key of many health issues.
The only reason it was longer than that is that it was honest to also explain why.
And to say that your posting just to claim you're wasting your time posting is due to the fact that my post are long-winded is nothing but pure discrimination. It's like insulting someone for stattering. Everyone has an own writing style. I don't appreciate the synthetic style because while I can agree with the goal (to explain things without writing much) no one is able to do that, language is complicated, understanding each other is complicated and all kind of synthetism leads to misunderstanding which is probably the biggest relational problem among all people. Anyway my style is long-winded just like Debussy style of music was impressionist.
If you don't like you can just avoid reading and go for the synthetic misunderstanding-leading stuff you appreciate, don't need to insul my threads or "waste your time (sic)" with them.


QUOTE
I also don't think that you should knock the Paleo Diet if it works for people.


Ask Joel or Daniel Kern if I'm a Paleo Diet knocker.
I don't knock ideas (even the most weird like eating shoes for breakfast) I knock ideologies.
When ideas becomes ideologies they become dangerous, limiting, dogmatic and contribute to confusion and rivalty. You seem to react emotionally to whatever I say about the Paleo diet as if you were defending a friend (no .. and ideology indeed) and didn't even realize that I'm not a Paleo basher but have been the strongest paleo promoter in this forum and that I've never bashed the Paleo diet per se but its ridocolous and flawed absolutisms. It's because I respect it that I don't want it to become a polluted limited nutritional ideology.
The paleo diet, just like the honey thing, is nothing but a tool, an humble and little tool ... it is very relative and general .. the pre-agricultural diet ... in that way it is a tool made of several principles which can be tweaked in hundreds of way reselting in hundreds of different diets but following those general principles, and in that way it can also be work as a supplement to other principles or be supplemented by others. This is the paleo-diet that i defend ... but I still feel like it should be called non-agriculture diet or hunter-gatherer diet because as a follower of the Paleo Bulletin Board where Fallon, Cordain, Groove, Matesz, Audette, Eaton, Walsh and all the others discussed "non-pacifically" their contradictory ideas I realized quickly that everything about paleolithic is absolutely blurry and speculative.

QUOTE
You act like what you are saying is so profound, but it just ends up being boring. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions.


Well, sorry ... you can be offended by someone writing style ... but when you stop keeping it for yourself and start posting meaningless stuff on a thread you're just being discriminatory.
The solution is simple, stop reading what you don't like BUT ALSO stop believing that what you like is inherently better; you may believe that short is better ... but that's you ... you're biased and maybe dead wrong. What you're doing with your whining now is not different from someone interrupting a concert to say that the he doesn't like that style of music without realizing that it's a matter of taste and his taste may literally sucks!

#17 Wynne

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:47 PM

Succinct paragraphs are far more pleasant and illuminating to read.

#18 notadoctor

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Danny© @ Aug 2 2007, 07:42 PM) View Post
QUOTE(notadoctor @ Aug 2 2007, 06:06 PM) View Post
I don't really think the Paleo diet is the answer to everything. I think it has a lot of good things you can take from it, but everybody has to do what they feel is right for themselves. I occasionally eat potatoes and starchy vegetables and occasionally eat legumes, and it does not seem to cause problems. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions.


Read it again.
The whole post could have been.
Pay attention to your liver glycogen because it's the key of many health issues.
The only reason it was longer than that is that it was honest to also explain why.
And to say that your posting just to claim you're wasting your time posting is due to the fact that my post are long-winded is nothing but pure discrimination. It's like insulting someone for stattering. Everyone has an own writing style. I don't appreciate the synthetic style because while I can agree with the goal (to explain things without writing much) no one is able to do that, language is complicated, understanding each other is complicated and all kind of synthetism leads to misunderstanding which is probably the biggest relational problem among all people. Anyway my style is long-winded just like Debussy style of music was impressionist.
If you don't like you can just avoid reading and go for the synthetic misunderstanding-leading stuff you appreciate, don't need to insul my threads or "waste your time (sic)" with them.


QUOTE
I also don't think that you should knock the Paleo Diet if it works for people.


Ask Joel or Daniel Kern if I'm a Paleo Diet knocker.
I don't knock ideas (even the most weird like eating shoes for breakfast) I knock ideologies.
When ideas becomes ideologies they become dangerous, limiting, dogmatic and contribute to confusion and rivalty. You seem to react emotionally to whatever I say about the Paleo diet as if you were defending a friend (no .. and ideology indeed) and didn't even realize that I'm not a Paleo basher but have been the strongest paleo promoter in this forum and that I've never bashed the Paleo diet per se but its ridocolous and flawed absolutisms. It's because I respect it that I don't want it to become a polluted limited nutritional ideology.
The paleo diet, just like the honey thing, is nothing but a tool, an humble and little tool ... it is very relative and general .. the pre-agricultural diet ... in that way it is a tool made of several principles which can be tweaked in hundreds of way reselting in hundreds of different diets but following those general principles, and in that way it can also be work as a supplement to other principles or be supplemented by others. This is the paleo-diet that i defend ... but I still feel like it should be called non-agriculture diet or hunter-gatherer diet because as a follower of the Paleo Bulletin Board where Fallon, Cordain, Groove, Matesz, Audette, Eaton, Walsh and all the others discussed "non-pacifically" their contradictory ideas I realized quickly that everything about paleolithic is absolutely blurry and speculative.

QUOTE
You act like what you are saying is so profound, but it just ends up being boring. I just don't like how your posts are always so long-winded, and come to very lame conclusions.


Well, sorry ... you can be offended by someone writing style ... but when you stop keeping it for yourself and start posting meaningless stuff on a thread you're just being discriminatory.
The solution is simple, stop reading what you don't like BUT ALSO stop believing that what you like is inherently better; you may believe that short is better ... but that's you ... you're biased and maybe dead wrong. What you're doing with your whining now is not different from someone interrupting a concert to say that the he doesn't like that style of music without realizing that it's a matter of taste and his taste may literally sucks!


You are right, my complaining about your writing is probably at least as annoying as your writing itself. But... you could have said it in less words.

#19 Danny©

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:51 PM

Oh no ... here we go again! Another long-winded thread.
Maybe a diet of 90% bone marrow and 10% coconut oil straight from the bottle will cure me!

QUOTE(Wynne @ Aug 2 2007, 06:47 PM) View Post
Succinct paragraphs are far more pleasant and illuminating to read.


Only because you're deluding yourself that what you understood is really what the author meant. Succinct things needs interpretation and interpretation is biased and flawed.
That's why it works so well with poems, where ambiguity is the key.

#20 Wynne

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:55 PM

QUOTE(Danny© @ Aug 2 2007, 08:51 PM) View Post
Oh no ... here we go again! Another long-winded thread.
Maybe a diet of 90% bone marrow and 10% coconut oil straight from the bottle will cure me!

QUOTE(Wynne @ Aug 2 2007, 06:47 PM) View Post
Succinct paragraphs are far more pleasant and illuminating to read.


Only because you're deluding yourself that what you understood is really what the author meant. Succinct things needs interpretation and interpretation is biased and flawed.
That's why it works so well with poems, where ambiguity is the key.

lol.gif thanks for the English lesson. rolleyes.gif Bachelor's in English here, thanks. Also nursing degree. Succinct expression does not have to leave excessive room for interpretation.