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Scarless Healing


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#41 emily88

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:16 PM

Hey Anna, sorry I haven't been on the boards for a while. When I first read about Juvista I went to their website and also I searched about it on Yahoo. Those statements are from an article on it, from some cosmetic surgery site I think since most patients undergoing surgery worry about a scar left behind. It's a pretty common article, I bet you can find it in a lot of places if you search on Yahoo or Google.

#42 seabs135

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 09:28 PM

I've just read this thread, very long and my eyes are now tired, so no doubt there will be typo after typo. Heh, heh, heh. I'll try to keep it short.

Not one of you has mentioned the work of some unsun australian doctors who are looking into a protein called 'fetuin,' which mops up dead cells, limits inflamation and speeds up healing... They say it is a major player in fetal scarless healing... And I've read their research seems to have a better research model with regards to their tested embryonic proteins, with it being they don't just make incisional wounds they 'burn,' too, hence their tested wounds will have more area and volume. I mean a scratch will be easier to heal than a burn.

Also here is a pdf document I'd like you lot to read too. In it some one claims that scarless healing may be available 'within' four years. This document was written last year:

http://www.vcp.monas...sfuture2006.pdf

#43 Neca

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE(kirk @ Jun 25 2007, 08:28 PM) View Post
Not one of you has mentioned the work of some unsun australian doctors who are looking into a protein called 'fetuin,' which mops up dead cells, limits inflamation and speeds up healing... They say it is a major player in fetal scarless healing... And I've read their research seems to have a better research model with regards to their tested embryonic proteins, with it being they don't just make incisional wounds they 'burn,' too, hence their tested wounds will have more area and volume. I mean a scratch will be easier to heal than a burn.


This sounds very interesting, do you have any links to information relating to 'Fetuin's' role in wound healing? I'll do a google search but if you can provide any specific links that would be great.

QUOTE(kirk @ Jun 25 2007, 08:28 PM) View Post
Also here is a pdf document I'd like you lot to read too. In it some one claims that scarless healing may be available 'within' four years. This document was written last year:
http://www.vcp.monas...sfuture2006.pdf


Thanks for posting this document Kirk, I saw this PDF in another thread on here and was planning on posting here but it totally slipped my mind. It is quite a decent outlook at the current status of scarless healing and is quite optimistic the future will be one without scars. However, it's a shame they don't go into much detail about what research is taking place in this area. Also, it is sometimes annoying when you read 'prevention is better than cure'; well naturally we would have all not wanted to cause our skins to scar but a lot of the time there isn't much we can do, lol! Despite doctors being quite clever, they can also make quite redundant points eusa_think.gif !

#44 Neca

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 07:45 AM

BBC NEWS Article - Artificial skin 'cuts scarring'
26th June, 2007

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/6236282.stm

A prototype artificial skin used to heal wounds has been developed by British researchers at the Intercytex company. The company's site: http://www.intercytex.com

This article outlines the new direction skin grafting and wound healing will take by the use of synthetic skin. I don't think this is an entire solution to scars, rather it may be used to reduce scarring as the article says: "After 28 days the artificial skin had remained stable and the wounds had healed with relatively little scarring." So scarring is still occurring unfortunately.

Also, from that 4-picture set in the middle of the page, it is hard to understand whether the redness in the wound after the dressing had been removed four weeks later will turn out to be scar tissue or normal tissue blending into the surrounding texture?

Anyway, at least this shows scarless healing research is getting a HEAP of attention eusa_dance.gif !!! It seems there is a new technique being introduced each day now on how to reduce scarring.

#45 Anna

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 01:27 PM

Thank you for your response Emily! I did do a search on this and saw it quoted in numerous places, but I wasn’t able to find it on Renovo’s website nor was I able to see where someone from Renovo was actually quoted. I don’t want to get my immediate hopes up yet. It would be so great to just go into an office and say, “Oh, I’m just here for my scar removal injections!” “I’ll be back next week to finish it off completely”

“Not one of you has mentioned the work of some unsun australian doctors who are looking into a protein called 'fetuin,' which mops up dead cells, limits inflamation and speeds up healing... They say it is a major player in fetal scarless healing... And I've read their research seems to have a better research model with regards to their tested embryonic proteins, with it being they don't just make incisional wounds they 'burn,' too, hence their tested wounds will have more area and volume. I mean a scratch will be easier to heal than a burn.”

Thanks for posting this Kirk. A couple of months ago I was in contact with Dr. Fiona Wood in Australia and was asking about a new product they are working on called ReCell with is being used as a scar and vitiligo treatment. ReCell is a single use spray on skin treatment to reepithialize skin after a burn or cosmetic dermabrasion. Dr. Wood is renowned for her work with burn victims. I don’t remember specifically reading about fetuin, but it sounds promising. My understanding is that for those of us with existing scars what will be needed is something to eliminate all the existing scar tissue before regeneration can occur. I’ll look into it further. It is truly of note that they are using it on burns where one can assume dermal tissue has been lost. That is the real test as it pertains to those of us with indented acne scars where tissue is missing. Link to ReCell: http://www.recell.info/


“This article outlines the new direction skin grafting and wound healing will take by the use of synthetic skin. I don't think this is an entire solution to scars, rather it may be used to reduce scarring as the article says: "After 28 days the artificial skin had remained stable and the wounds had healed with relatively little scarring." So scarring is still occurring unfortunately.”

Neca, I think it is so great that there is so much attention being paid to this topic. We will all see where the state of the art is within the next year or so. Maybe you and I will come up with the solution ourselves. We’ll put everyone on a plane to someplace exotic and sequester ourselves away and all emerge scar free after our treatment gets administered. Okay, I’m dreaming, at least for now!

Oh, this is an interesting paper related to reducing excess TGF B1 for cancer patients who exhibit high levels of TGF B1. They use drugs and supplements with Papain (active enzyme in Paypaya) to reduce the high TGF B1 levels. Another piece of the puzzle maybe?

http://www.osteosarc...nzymes_2001.pdf
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#46 seabs135

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 03:21 PM

Neca wrote, 'This sounds very interesting, do you have any links to information relating to 'Fetuin's' role in wound healing? I'll do a google search but if you can provide any specific links that would be great.'

Neca, all I have found is what is on the internet, entrez pubmed etc. and some article titbits that excited me when I read them. As you know though, these headlines and titbits can be misleading. So most of what I've seen and read on fetuin you will be able to see for yourself on the internet. Just type in Fetuin and Kimble in google.
Though I do have a document, that I documented on word on the 21st October 2005 (like I do with every article and PDF file I see that could have something to do with scarless healing, and I'd advise everyone who reads this thread to do the same) called 'fetal protein holds key,' by Bernadette Condren that has been took down from the newspaper website (thus I'm unsure about what rights I have to post it on this forum publically), you can only get this document now via payment etc. This document was the first article that originally excited me about this protein. I just sense through what I've read then, along with how now they only release tiny bits of info, along with the scarlessfuture PDF that they have something big and something significant is in the pipeline. (Note: I can also see on the other hand I might have been driven by hype, like the hype for other bits of progress I've read about on the web etc.),

However I did about a year ago read some information in scientific medical jargon, that was what I thought was about fetuin suppressing TGFB1 or something? I just wish I wasn't a layman. Perhaps you could look into that, as I assume you know your medical jargon?

Anna wrote, 'Thanks for posting this Kirk. A couple of months ago I was in contact with Dr. Fiona Wood in Australia and was asking about a new product they are working on called ReCell with is being used as a scar and vitiligo treatment. ReCell is a single use spray on skin treatment to reepithialize skin after a burn or cosmetic dermabrasion. Dr. Wood is renowned for her work with burn victims. I don’t remember specifically reading about fetuin, but it sounds promising. My understanding is that for those of us with existing scars what will be needed is something to eliminate all the existing scar tissue before regeneration can occur. I’ll look into it further. It is truly of note that they are using it on burns where one can assume dermal tissue has been lost. That is the real test as it pertains to those of us with indented acne scars where tissue is missing. Link to ReCell: http://www.recell.info/'

Anna, I tried to get in touch with Kimble too but he didn't answer his email. Heh, heh, heh. Perhaps he is a ladies man or something and will only answer emails from women. Perhaps you could have a go?

#47 Tom_Mason

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 04:40 PM

Hey all, awesome to see this thread going strong. Anna, i talked to a doctor in Australia who had seen ReCell being used and he said its a very intensive procedure in that regular checks are needed through a period of 6 months after its performed to see if its taking. At this stage according to him it is not very reliable and also very expensive so i think there are better options available or becoming available.
In Sydney last sunday one of the major papers had a 2 page spread on scarring in one of its sections talking about current methods of treatment and also "scarless future" being developed by Australian scientists. I believe Aus will probably come out with the treatment first due to amazing R&D going on here and the doctors (for those who dont know an Australian scientist was the one who created the cervical cancer vaccine) makes me swell with pride razz.gif
So seems scarring is finally getting major attention.
Anyways the point of this was just to post another link
http://plasticsurger...d.edu/research/
This is research going on at stanford in America also looks like its getting into gear so definately worth a look.
Have a great day everyone!!!

#48 Anna

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 07:44 PM

"Anna, I tried to get in touch with Kimble too but he didn't answer his email. Heh, heh, heh. Perhaps he is a ladies man or something and will only answer emails from women. Perhaps you could have a go?"

Kirk, I will definitely give it a shot! Heck, I'll send pictures to him too if I think it will help! Anything for the team, right? eusa_shifty.gif

Tom, When I contacted Dr. Wood I was wondering if they had ever considered to deliver the skin cells via a tattoo application rather spraying them on post dermabrasion. I understand that for burn injuries there isn't much choice, for scars, or particularly vitiligo, it seems it might be a better way to go. She replied that this wasn't something they were doing. I still think it might be worth considering instead of having patients go through the dermabrasion procedure. I'm not sure how this cell proliferation method differs much from Isolagen, other than it is much quicker.

I'm going to spend a lot of time this weekend researching and looking at all the links everyone has provided so expect some tedious posts from me soon!

My best to all of you!
Anna
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#49 Tom_Mason

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:31 AM

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/4330906.stm

This article was very interesting but quite confusing.
If anyone else reads this tell me what you think. It is talking about limb regeneration and scarless healing.
Here are some quotes:

He said about 1,000 patients had already been trialling "promising" new therapies designed to minimise or completely banish scarring.

but then there was

Over the next 25 years, Professor Enrique Amaya and colleagues will study what genes and cells are important for regeneration and see if the same can be encouraged to happen in mammals, starting with mice and moving ultimately to humans if successful.

The first advances will probably be in straightforward tissues like the skin

Professor Mark Ferguson, from the UK Centre for Tissue Engineering at Manchester University

The work could mean that people who are severely scarred will be able to heal without any trace of the injury.


I'm not sure if its just the journalist mixing up the regeneration parts with the scarring research or what but it stated later that there was the 1000 patients trialling new scarring therapies. Neca and Anna im very curious to see what do you guys think of this?



#50 Anna

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:28 AM

"He said about 1,000 patients had already been trialling "promising" new therapies designed to minimise or completely banish scarring."

The article was written in 2005 so I believe they were referring to one of Renovo's trials. We now know that they have backed off of the "scarless healing" claim a bit.

"Over the next 25 years, Professor Enrique Amaya and colleagues will study what genes and cells are important for regeneration and see if the same can be encouraged to happen in mammals, starting with mice and moving ultimately to humans if successful. "

I think that this will actually be happening a LOT faster than 25 years given that DARPA is now behind this. They have already identified the genes responsible for the perfect regeneration in the MRL mouse, so the next step to humans should be close I believe.

" The first advances will probably be in straightforward tissues like the skin."

THRILLED to read they think the skin is straightforward!!! So fix us dang it! eusa_dance.gif

"Professor Mark Ferguson, from the UK Centre for Tissue Engineering at Manchester University

The work could mean that people who are severely scarred will be able to heal without any trace of the injury."

I still want to read something substantial that existing scars are being reversed or that they are conducting a study on existing scars.

"I'm not sure if its just the journalist mixing up the regeneration parts with the scarring research or what but it stated later that there was the 1000 patients trialling new scarring therapies. Neca and Anna im very curious to see what do you guys think of this?"

Probably a bit of both. Like I said above, I believe the 1000 patients refers to Renovo's trial and Renovo is refering to their therapies as regenerative. Also, these jounalists are tasked with reporting on a very complex topic which even those of us who have been studying for years get mixed up on. I still am very hopeful that things are moving along much more quickly than previously thought.

Just my two cents worth Tom!

Have a wonderful day!

Anna


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#51 Anna

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 02:06 PM

I'm just plinking around this morning and have already read about 23 scientific papers! Thank God I have good eyes!

Here are some of my random findings:

On Fetuin: A disease marker for risk assessment of cardiovascular calcification

Fetuin (AHSG, or Fetuin-A) has the highest capacity in inhibiting soft tissue calcification among all other molecules in the circulation. It is the most important and major calcification regulating protein in the circulation.

http://www.fetuin.com/


I think this is really interesting. I read a book a while back called, "The Calcium Bomb" which turned out to be more of a marketing tool for the author who at the end essentially wanted people to sign up to buy his supplements and antibiotics. HOWEVER, in this book the author proposed that virtually all disease processes start with inflammation and that calcium gets deposited in the body's attempt to neutralise that inflammation...sounds like scarring to me. So, maybe using Fetuin is the key to catabolizing scar tissue which would then allow regeneration.

Another interesting tidbit:

http://ajp.amjpathol.../full/157/2/423

Fetal repair is fundamentally different from adult repair. Adult skin wounds heal by scar formation, whereas fetal skin wounds heal by regeneration with restoration of normal skin architecture. This transition from scarless fetal repair to adult-type healing with scar occurs at specific times during gestation. The mechanism for scarless fetal repair is unknown, but it does not require systemic factors such as the fetal immune system, fetal serum, or amniotic fluid. Isolated human fetal skin transplanted into adult athymic mice can heal without scar. Thus the capability for scarless repair is inherent to fetal skin itself.

Isn't that fascinating?! So, since the fetus is able to regenerate and would regenerate its graft, what harm would it do to harvest the tissue and then propogate the cells in a lab for transplantation onto scarred skin? I would guess the fetus would need to be a tissue match or the risk for rejection would be raised, but I still think this this is very interesting.

A bit of a roadblock in the research is that so many articles use the term TGF generically when we know the various forms of TGF have vastly differing actions. Also, some articles refer to Fetuin as a form of TGF??? Drives me nuts!

Neca, I read up on DermaLastyl, and in the article it said that the main ingredient that the doctor used DID make the wounds heal without scarring. I know DermaLastyl is a diluted formulation but I might go ahead and order it just to try it. Probably won't hurt!
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#52 Neca

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 12:55 PM

GREAT POSTS EVERYONE, THANKS FOR THE EXCELLENT RESEARCH AND ARTICLES!!!

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 27 2007, 12:27 PM) View Post
Thanks for posting this Kirk. A couple of months ago I was in contact with Dr. Fiona Wood in Australia and was asking about a new product they are working on called ReCell with is being used as a scar and vitiligo treatment. ReCell is a single use spray on skin treatment to reepithialize skin after a burn or cosmetic dermabrasion. Dr. Wood is renowned for her work with burn victims. I don’t remember specifically reading about fetuin, but it sounds promising. My understanding is that for those of us with existing scars what will be needed is something to eliminate all the existing scar tissue before regeneration can occur. I’ll look into it further. It is truly of note that they are using it on burns where one can assume dermal tissue has been lost. That is the real test as it pertains to those of us with indented acne scars where tissue is missing. Link to ReCell: http://www.recell.info/


Yes I definintely agree Anna, ReCell does look promising; I've had a quick look through the PDF comparison photos presented on their case studies page at http://www.recell.in...casestudies.asp and the results do look reasonably good. However, this form of treatment is clearly aiming to improve scars and healing rather than remove scar tissue altogether. The most effective results are likely to be amongst 'fresh' burn patients since no scar tissue will have been deposited over the wound if the ReCell treatment is applied within a few hours of injury. Thus, ReCell can enter the wound free from scar tissue obstacles and penetrate the wound directly. However, despite this, the treatment does not prevent scar tissue formation so the success of the treatment will depend on how the wounded skin reacts to the ReCell's keratinocytes. Moreover, I'm not sure whether ReCell would be affective at all if provided in tattoo mode as it would not evenly penetrate the scar tissue. Dermabrading the scar tissue prior to treatment helps evenly remove layers of scar tissue (leaving only a thin layer of rooted scar tissue) enabling the application of ReCell to be more affective. Moreover, the tattoo mode may be a little too intrusive causing even more scar tissue to form as it is penetrated deep down. This is why I think if you look at the hypertrophic scar before/after photo on ReCell's site it looks less visible and flatter as the scar tissue has been sanded down.

ReCell could be a bit hit or miss, but it is definitely worth pursuing and researching more. Maybe if this was combined with Juvista/Juvidex then wounds could heal almost perfectly.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 27 2007, 12:27 PM) View Post
Oh, this is an interesting paper related to reducing excess TGF B1 for cancer patients who exhibit high levels of TGF B1. They use drugs and supplements with Papain (active enzyme in Paypaya) to reduce the high TGF B1 levels. Another piece of the puzzle maybe?
http://www.osteosarc...nzymes_2001.pdf


Thanks for that link, very intriguing paper. What we would need to know is whether these drugs+supplements (given to cancer patients) will also work with the same efficacy levels during the stages of wound healing. Effectively, what I am trying to say is whether these substances are able to prevent TGF1+2 from forming when the skin is seriously wounded and goes into scar tissue formation mode? The healing process which produces scar tissue may override those drugs/supplements. Nevertheless, I will definitely look more into Papain and its effects on TGF1.


QUOTE(anna @ Jun 30 2007, 01:06 PM) View Post
Isolated human fetal skin transplanted into adult athymic mice can heal without scar. Thus the capability for scarless repair is inherent to fetal skin itself.

Isn't that fascinating?! So, since the fetus is able to regenerate and would regenerate its graft, what harm would it do to harvest the tissue and then propogate the cells in a lab for transplantation onto scarred skin? I would guess the fetus would need to be a tissue match or the risk for rejection would be raised, but I still think this this is very interesting.


I think that's incredible and am very surprised that the adult mice do not reject the skin transplant? A skin biopsy, I would have assumed, is taken from the same person as the wound that it is about to treatment due to the fact that rejection is less likely to occur. I would also assume thus that if a skin biopsy is taken from a human being and used to treat a wound on another human being, then acceptance is much less likely but not impossible due to anti-rejection drugs. Thus, maybe the mice were given anti-rejection drugs.

It makes me think...wouldn't it all be so easy if samples of our human skin was taken when we were all fetus' and then stored for potential future use? It would provide a perfect match.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 30 2007, 01:06 PM) View Post
Neca, I read up on DermaLastyl, and in the article it said that the main ingredient that the doctor used DID make the wounds heal without scarring. I know DermaLastyl is a diluted formulation but I might go ahead and order it just to try it. Probably won't hurt!


You could give it a go if ya want to Anna but I wouldn't get hopes up too much. Since its primarily an anti-ageing cream, the amount of anti-scarring ingredients is likely to be minimal. If it doesn't cost too much or if you are able to get a sample then it might be worth a try. But if they are charging $300 or something then I wouldn't really bother. I just hope some venture capitalist risks his money into Elastin's creator so he can go forth and produce a fully concentrated and potent form of the substance in the hope that it reduces scarring.

#53 Neca

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 01:29 PM

QUOTE(kirk @ Jun 27 2007, 02:21 PM) View Post
Neca, all I have found is what is on the internet, entrez pubmed etc. and some article titbits that excited me when I read them. As you know though, these headlines and titbits can be misleading. So most of what I've seen and read on fetuin you will be able to see for yourself on the internet. Just type in Fetuin and Kimble in google.
Though I do have a document, that I documented on word on the 21st October 2005 (like I do with every article and PDF file I see that could have something to do with scarless healing, and I'd advise everyone who reads this thread to do the same) called 'fetal protein holds key,' by Bernadette Condren that has been took down from the newspaper website (thus I'm unsure about what rights I have to post it on this forum publically), you can only get this document now via payment etc. This document was the first article that originally excited me about this protein. I just sense through what I've read then, along with how now they only release tiny bits of info, along with the scarlessfuture PDF that they have something big and something significant is in the pipeline. (Note: I can also see on the other hand I might have been driven by hype, like the hype for other bits of progress I've read about on the web etc.),

However I did about a year ago read some information in scientific medical jargon, that was what I thought was about fetuin suppressing TGFB1 or something? I just wish I wasn't a layman. Perhaps you could look into that, as I assume you know your medical jargon?


Hey Kirk, great post; I will definitely try and track down that Bernadette Condren document that you mention. I'm sure there is a way around having to pay for that article as it's surely referenced in other places as well that provides a brief synopsis of it. If Fetuin does in fact inhibit TGFb1 then it will definitely be something to look into further. The only issue surrounding Fetuin is that the research into explaining Fetuin's role in reducing/preventing scar tissue is not very advanced. Therefore, I think we might have to wait a few years longer until something definitive pops out. But it will definitely be interesting to see what Doc. Kimble has to say if Anna manages to flatter him enough wink.gif ..lol!


#54 Neca

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 27 2007, 03:40 PM) View Post
In Sydney last sunday one of the major papers had a 2 page spread on scarring in one of its sections talking about current methods of treatment and also "scarless future" being developed by Australian scientists. I believe Aus will probably come out with the treatment first due to amazing R&D going on here and the doctors (for those who dont know an Australian scientist was the one who created the cervical cancer vaccine) makes me swell with pride razz.gif
So seems scarring is finally getting major attention.


Hey Tom, I know it's a long shot but is there any chance you still have that article or are able to scan and post that article or provide a link if it has also been posted online or just briefly describe any of the techniques it mentioned? Did it include the same things we have been talking about on here? I am sooo so happy that scarring is getting increased publicity. We are definitely well on our way along the yellow-brick road to a clear skin future...let's really hope the journey isn't too long though.

QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 30 2007, 04:31 AM) View Post
http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/4330906.stmI'm not sure if its just the journalist mixing up the regeneration parts with the scarring research or what but it stated later that there was the 1000 patients trialling new scarring therapies. Neca and Anna im very curious to see what do you guys think of this?


That's an excellent article Tom and thanks for posting it. I can't add much that Anna hasn't already outlined in her excellent post regarding the article, which covered virtually all the bases. You are right, the journo didn't really present the article clearly enough. I think scarring therapies are definitely well advanced now and the potential for finding a real solution is not a long way off, but when we are talking about organ regeneration then it is almost entirely a different ball park. I would say it's probably another 10-15 years away in terms of military research, however I doubt the regeneration of all the organs of the body will be as easy as the other....so who really knows.

#55 Neca

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 01:48 PM

I forgot to also mention that I will also update you guys on whether I am able to source some Mannose-6-Phosphate (anti TGFb1+2) and some TGFb3 soon. I'm looking into our various options and hopefully will be able to get hold of some samples to test on my ever present scars.

I'm also looking into whether fresh Aloe Vera leaf (which contains Mannose-6-Phosphate) can effectively reduce/remove scarring and how concentrated the leaf is regarding M-6-P. Maybe injecting it intradermally after needling could reducing scarring. The only problem would be whether the aloe vera gel from a fresh tree would be 'clean' enough??

#56 Tom_Mason

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 04:39 AM

Anna thanks for clearing up that article and thanks Neca for your input also. Unfortunately Neca no i don't still have the paper to scan in, i can remember the gist of it though. Basically it was talking about current scar treatment methods eg peels, fraxel, excision and so on which as we know do not get rid of scars but i suppose they needed some filler material, the interesting part of the article was the last 2 paragraphs talking about the Monash University paper which i saw a link to here somewhere discussing the idea of a scarless future within 4 years. It didn't go into detail only that they were working on it, it definately is a good sign i agree.
Must be off as early morning start at work tomorrow.
Wishing you all the Best!!!

#57 seabs135

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 02:37 PM

QUOTE(Neca @ Jul 1 2007, 08:29 PM) View Post
Hey Kirk, great post; I will definitely try and track down that Bernadette Condren document that you mention. I'm sure there is a way around having to pay for that article as it's surely referenced in other places as well that provides a brief synopsis of it. If Fetuin does in fact inhibit TGFb1 then it will definitely be something to look into further. The only issue surrounding Fetuin is that the research into explaining Fetuin's role in reducing/preventing scar tissue is not very advanced. Therefore, I think we might have to wait a few years longer until something definitive pops out. But it will definitely be interesting to see what Doc. Kimble has to say if Anna manages to flatter him enough wink.gif ..lol!


It was an interesting article, you should try and track it down. wink.gif



#58 Anna

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 08:53 AM

Secret Squirrel Reporting with article by Bernadette Condren, you will have to beat me for me to give up my sources and even then I won't:

Fetal protein holds key

In a world first, Brisbane scientists have found the key to scarless healing. Bernadette Condren reports

08oct05

CHILDHOOD burns are among the most horrific and most preventable accidents.
A pot pulled from a stove, a hand on an open barbecue, a steaming cup dragged from a benchtop – scarring can be for life.

Minor burns that heal within two weeks heal without leaving a scar.

More severe burns, known as partial-depth burns, can take years of treatment, exacting a toll on the child and its family so immense that it is life-changing.
Roy Kimble is a quiet Scotsman with a great passion. He wants to create a treatment that will minimise, even eradicate, scarring from burns wounds.
And he's close. Very, very close.

In a world first, Dr Kimble and his team of scientists at Brisbane's Royal Children's Hospital have found that a protein called fetuin is a major player in the scarless treatment of burn wounds.

Those who will benefit from Dr Kimble's research are not only children, but also adults who have severe burns, such as those sustained during the Bali bombings.
Experts have known for many years that babies who have surgery while still in the uterus, and babies born very prematurely and who have surgery, heal without scars.

This was the scrap of information Dr Kimble and his team began with when their research project started in 2000.

"We asked: 'OK, a fetus can heal an incisional wound without scarring, but can it heal a burn without scarring?' " Dr Kimble recalled. "That was the first thing we set out to prove."

And they did.

In another world first, the Royal Children's Hospital Burns Research Group – which is funded by the hospital's foundation – used fetuses in sheep to prove the theory.
The quest for the holy grail of scarless healing had truly begun.

They set out to establish which proteins differed between the skin of a lamb in the womb and the skin of a lamb after birth. The first protein identified as being present in the fetus but largely absent in the lamb, was fetuin.

Fetuin has been pretty much ignored by the scientific community since it was discovered almost 70 years ago, but its days of obscurity are over. After identifying fetuin as a major player in scarless healing, the team in the burns lab created an artificial wound.

They grew a cell culture, scored it to create a gap in the cells then watched it to determine how long it took for the cells to close the gap. They repeated the process, adding fetuin to the next culture they grew.

Again they timed how long it took for the gap to close. The difference was significant – significant enough for Dr Kimble to patent the protein.

"Nothing closes a wound like fetuin does, so we know it has some very important qualities," Dr Kimble said.

At the University of Queensland's St Lucia campus there is a pig that hundreds of thousands of parents around the world will never know about but when they thank God that the hot cup of coffee their toddler has tipped on his or her head can be treated in such a way that there will be no scarring, it's the pig they should be thanking.

"We're in the middle of testing fetuin on our burns model," Dr Kimble said.

"We've recreated the deep thermal partial-thickness burn that you see in a child, which will heal on its own but will take more than two weeks to heal and always heals with scarring. We're currently testing fetuin on our animal model to see whether it will make wounds heal faster and with less scar tissue."

This trial is going so well that human trials have been pencilled in to start in 2007.
Current treatment for burns include patients having to wear pressure garments to prevent scar tissue from building up. Sheets of silicon are put over the wound before the garments are put on.

They have to be worn 24 hours a day and in the uncomfortable heat of Queensland's long summers.

If the scar is over a joint, the child will develop a contracture requiring surgery until they stop growing. Even then, they may not develop the full range of movement in the joint because scar tissue does not grow like normal skin.
"If we can use fetuin to reduce scarring, a lot of that is not going to be necessary," Dr Kimble said. "If you can get a wound to heal nice and fast at the beginning, you don't need all the pressure garments, silicon and repeated surgeries."

Fetuin would be applied as a topical cream and would provide a salve not only for the patient but also for parents.

"Because the vast majority of burns in kids are household accidents that are totally preventable, the parents feel very guilty and will probably feel guilty for the rest of their lives," Dr Kimble said.

As head of the burns unit, Dr Kimble shakes his head in despair because, he says, 99 per cent of the burns he sees are preventable.

"I do the research just to make things better," he said. "But if it can be prevented from happening in the first place – that's the best."


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.

#59 Anna

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 11:24 AM

Here is a link to the patent for the Fetuin product Professor Kimble is involved with. It is LONG and you have to go through the tabs to get the details. I'll read it in greater detail this weekend. Mainly, I'm looking for something that gives a glimmer of hope for treating existing scarring.

http://www.wipo.int/...;DISPLAY=STATUS

We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.

#60 Tom_Mason

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 05:17 AM

Wow anna awesome work on the info, still in the process of reading through it all. From what i can gather about treating existing scarring wouldn't they merely create a wound on your scars and then proceed in treating it in the same way which they treat the initial burns? Just a thought. Haha by the way when i read
"Fetuin has been pretty much ignored by the scientific community since it was discovered almost 70 years ago, but its days of obscurity are over. After identifying fetuin as a major player in scarless healing, the team in the burns lab created an artificial wound". I could feel a rise in my blood pressure, similar for anyone else?
Looking forward to reading the rest of it
Have a good one all




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