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Scarless Healing


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#4221 Vladislav

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

This group has а similar issue:
http://www.facebook....TER/23363014706
So in March there were only 36 people who liked this group (it is a $10 billion project related to nuclear fusion research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) and now there are 7,346 likes!!!???



#4222 DamnLife

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:01 AM

This group has а similar issue:
http://www.facebook....TER/23363014706
So in March there were only 36 people who liked this group (it is a $10 billion project related to nuclear fusion research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) and now there are 7,346 likes!!!???

Hydrogel fb page got from 31 to 3000+ likes in few hours...



#4223 Rez77

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

who cares about the likes on the facebook page --could we please just focus on if this thing is really coming out for humans. 



#4224 DamnLife

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:08 AM

who cares about the likes on the facebook page --could we please just focus on if this thing is really coming out for humans. 

probably in 2020's 



#4225 2001

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

The facebook page is too plain. The owner needs to post links and information to all the articles that are out there on the net. Someone should make a youtube channel, and use "scars" "remove scars" as keywords. It might also be wise to join the official JHU facebook page and post/ask questions about Dextran Hydrogel in every new comment section that comes up on the JHU FB page. At this point it's about being proactive. I dont feel like JHU cares about this as much as we do.



#4226 Maldition

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:42 AM

Now you are finally understanding what I always told you

 

Discovery of new drugs to go on sale need decades

 

I'll be back in 10 years, and see what's new, bye.


Edited by Maldition, 17 March 2013 - 01:45 AM.


#4227 panos

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:35 AM

Maldition in 10 years you can study the whole patent and study of hydrogel, hack everything

and be back with the hydrogel solution itself.

I will help you:)


Edited by panos, 17 March 2013 - 03:44 AM.


#4228 DamnLife

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:12 AM

Now you are finally understanding what I always told you

 

Discovery of new drugs to go on sale need decades

 

I'll be back in 10 years, and see what's new, bye.

You are right, I always understood the same thing, actually It's 50/50% we may never see hydrogel.



#4229 2001

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 06:11 PM

Stop being so self defeating.


Someone found/created something that tons of people want. Problem is the people who want it, don't know it's out there.


Remember the saying "Money talks and bullsh*t walks".


The only issues preventing forward momentum with this is money and intellectual ownership issues.


The funding wont happen until the ownership issue is resolved. The other thing is this. The people who want and need this. Well only a few of them know about it.

 

We have to expose it to the masses. We have to reveal it to the people who are searching for it on the internet. Put more knocking hands on JHU's door until the noise is too loud to ingore of the door breaks down.

 

There is no conspiracy here. This is a big money invention that could net billions of dollars for it's owners/investors- if it works on humans.


Everything is quiet and it's not good as far as time goes. We are trying to shorten the time as consumers. The news about this invention needs to be too loud to overlook and ignore. It should be the first thing Google and Bing find when you search for the keyword "Scars" it should be the most watched Youtube video for the keyword "Scars" and the Facebook page should come up first when you search for the keyword "Scars".

 

 

Again- The news about this invention needs to be loud and in everyones face, so the investors come after it, so the consumers beg for it. We have to force it to exist sooner. It wont take as much effort as everyone assumes.


Edited by 2001, 17 March 2013 - 06:23 PM.


#4230 wentworthwhile

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:01 AM

The facebook page is too plain. The owner needs to post links and information to all the articles that are out there on the net. Someone should make a youtube channel, and use "scars" "remove scars" as keywords. It might also be wise to join the official JHU facebook page and post/ask questions about Dextran Hydrogel in every new comment section that comes up on the JHU FB page. At this point it's about being proactive. I dont feel like JHU cares about this as much as we do.


@2001 i totally agree with you. I created the facebook page because i wanted everyone to know about this. If i was the one in contact with the Doctors at JHU (i tried many times with no luck!) then i would have asked Dr Harmon if he minded me posting updates on the page of the discussions we'd been having. I think this could help us get a large following. If everyone else feels how i do, hearing there is progress keeps your hopes high. I think because we havent heard anything for a while everyone is starting to feel how they did before, hopeless.
Anyhow i did ask chuckstonchew if i could post his updates from Dr Harmon but he thought it best to wait til we got approval for crowd funding. I also wouldnt want Dr Harmon to stop chatting him because he might not want their conversations public yet. Although this forum isnt exactly private.
Some other users suggested keeping the page purely informative at this stage was best.

If you have any ideas on how to get more likers let me know ill give it a go. Maybe we can somehow put together a video of purely facts and text, using photos from the study. Including links to the pnas paper & patent and also the facebook page. If anyone has the ability and the time please do!

@chuckstonchew
keen to hear if youve heard from Dr Harmon!

#4231 DamnLife

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:24 AM

They have already tried it on pigs http://blogs.nature....ck-in-pigs.html

So maybe it's time to test it on humans?



#4232 seabs135

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

....


Edited by seabs135, 18 March 2013 - 03:12 PM.


#4233 panos

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:26 AM

First of all we just to need to make this as simple as possible

It is a hydrogel  that is being cover with plastic wrap and after days it is eaten by the skin itself promoting

skin growth .

Just this..

 

And then we should promote the myriad of its practical usage( scarless after breast augmentation!,scarless after

liposuction!,hair regeneration for people with scarring alopecias! , scarless after every surgey!,)

We should also say that scar is not just a cosmetically ugly issue,but also lacks normal skin function)

It is the fail of the body to regenarate completely..

 

We should make this as simple as possible 



#4234 panos

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

I just had a wild thought

 

Well if almost every disease is caused due to enviroment

 

what if we could create again and mimick the enviroment 

 

when we were fetus iside our mothers organism  and we could heal scarless?

 

This is the way hydrogel works

 

True health is universal...Recreating again this enviroment would do things feasible.

 

We also dont know if the low TGFbeta1-2 and high TGF-beta 3 of the fetus

is just a response of healing due to the positive surrounding enviroment.

 

 

We are just a response to enviromental factors

 

if an organism can heal scarless at a specific enviroment then the same organism could

heal scarless again in a similar enviroment..

 

if hydrogel promotes scarless healing in humans then it does so cause it recreates a topical embyonic

like enviroment.

 

We should have immediatley understand that renovo was a scam: renovo concentrated

on TGF that was clearly a response to the fetal enviroment. instead

they were claiming by adding tgfbeta 3 and lowering tgfbeta 1 2 they will promote scarless

healing ( that was a nice butcher approach)

 

Most of the studies try to create the hormonal profile of the embryo 

and not the enviroment that surrounds the embryo!!!!!Maybe hydrogel does so!


Edited by panos, 19 March 2013 - 04:44 PM.


#4235 skinregenerator

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

I just had a wild thought

 

Well if almost every disease is caused due to enviroment

 

what if we could create again and mimick the enviroment 

 

when we were fetus iside our mothers organism  and we could heal scarless?

 

This is the way hydrogel works

 

True health is universal...Recreating again this enviroment would do things feasible.

 

We also dont know if the low TGFbeta1-2 and high TGF-beta 3 of the fetus

is just a response of healing due to the positive surrounding enviroment.

 

 

We are just a response to enviromental factors

 

if an organism can heal scarless at a specific enviroment then the same organism could

heal scarless again in a similar enviroment..

 

if hydrogel promotes scarless healing in humans then it does so cause it recreates a topical embyonic

like enviroment.

 

We should have immediatley understand that renovo was a scam: renovo concentrated

on TGF that was clearly a response to the fetal enviroment. instead

they were claiming by adding tgfbeta 3 and lowering tgfbeta 1 2 they will promote scarless

healing ( that was a nice butcher approach)

 

Most of the studies try to create the hormonal profile of the embryo 

and not the enviroment that surrounds the embryo!!!!!Maybe hydrogel does so!

 

interesting?!



#4236 seabs135

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Panos the hydrogel just degrades rapidly and is eaten by whitebloodcells. This was also tested with a standardised method against a control used thousands of times before.  7 to10 days after application on a 3rd degree burn, the hydrogel has mostly been degraded and cells are created, therefor the wound is reepithilized. And after 21 days, when the wound was checked again, the hydrogel wounds have healed, with appendages, with complete regeneration; proven results. The control on the otherhand behaved as typical.


Edited by seabs135, 19 March 2013 - 08:52 PM.


#4237 panos

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:54 AM

I know that seabs ,i was just making an hypothesis about how the hydrogel which is nothing

but a 3d structure consisting of water and sugar could make an enviroment capable of tissue

regeneration= very moisture +anti bacterial+ 3d human cells like behaving enviroment.

 

You still dont explain the reason why the hydrogel is being eaten by the macrophages 

and even JHU team just makes 3 hypothesis about this.......



#4238 scarminator

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:23 AM

Panos, your theory is interesting. If I remember things right though, I believe I've seen a study testing that hypothesis by letting a fetus heal outside of the womb. I think the result was that it didn't matter though, i.e. that the fetus healed scarlessly anyway.

 

My guess would be that the main mechanism of action of the hydrogel is that it promotes cell motility. Without a scaffold to move in, fibroblasts will be restricted to the periphery of the wound. As fibroblasts can't move to the center of the wound, the layout of new collagen fibers will get messed up. The movement of cells are always affected by the extracellular matrix/their surroundings, a phenomenon known as 'contact guidance'.



As for fetuses and why they don't heal with a scar (for some time period), their granulation tissue is different from adults and probably works better as a scaffold.



#4239 panos

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:47 AM

I wouldnt care so much about studies but user's testimonials...

 

Testimonials of people i trust in forums. Hydrogel has not been proven to work in humans or

even in mice(we dont know yet the credibility of the study/even if i strongly believe it should work)

 

What we know for sure though is :

 

a) extreme moisture enviroment would accelerate and promote healing

 

b) pathogens will hinder healing

 

c)deeper regeneration will result in better scar appearance than exfoliation or lighter regeneration

 

 

WE KNOW THESE THINGS FOR SURE AND I WOULDNT CARE ABOUT ANY STUDY DISPROVING THEM

Nature shows the way in healing. 

 

 

Hydrogel should work cause of the extreme enviroment of moisture that as you say promotes cell motility

plus the protection from pathogens...

 

Lugol's iodine works by killing any bacterial within the scar,shedding the skin so fast that will result in 

deeper regeneration from bottom to up

 

Subcision works by attacking the deep scar tissue promoting deeper regeneration.

 

I wouldnt care about any study disproving those thing ,studies are just a nice beggining point.



#4240 seabs135

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

I know that seabs ,i was just making an hypothesis about how the hydrogel which is nothing

but a 3d structure consisting of water and sugar could make an enviroment capable of tissue

regeneration= very moisture +anti bacterial+ 3d human cells like behaving enviroment.

 

You still dont explain the reason why the hydrogel is being eaten by the macrophages 

and even JHU team just makes 3 hypothesis about this.......

Panos, but no one has to explain any non related peripheral theory, over results. There is no onus to overkill to feed any external theory that others have. The only thing that matters in science is results (peer reviewed even better), and results with no confirmation bias and no noise.

 

E.g. if I proved I could invent a flying car, would I have to explain someone elses non connected theory as to why grass is green too? No, especially because I'd imagine in my paper I would not have made any note on why grass is green. That would be external noise that is not related to the results. The result on a testable paper with no confirmation bias is what matters.

 

With regards to macrophages. The paper produces a cited fact on the first page that macrophages induce and accelerate angiogenesis. On page three the paper explains that they, quote, "did observe differences between macrophages and neutrophils between the control scaffold and dextran hydrogel (n = 6) because Neutrophil is a normal response to a wound area." 

I cant see any hypothesis on macrophages, only cited facts, and even if there was one, that would be peripheral noise distracting from the papers results and pointless to discuss imo.  I also cant remember anyone asking anyone to explain a peripheral theory.

The paper does mention that the hydrogel is eaten by neutrophils, which is normal behaviour for neutrophils in any mammal wound as the neutrophils eat bactera and foreign debris.


Edited by seabs135, 20 March 2013 - 02:50 PM.





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