4527 replies to this topic

[Mr Guru]

I wouldn't say that this thing is still in it's infancy, look at this http://www.wired.co....artificial-skin

and it's not that expensive either http://www.popsci.co...mass-production

 

Four years may seem long to you but relatively speaking it is not when you speak of medical advancement. I don't think so at least. These things take forever to perfect. Just my opinion.

 

You can't go to the doctor right now and get it done in any case. Can you?

Well I don't know if you can, I have red article where girl had a large pigmentation mark on left thigh and doctor performed this artificial skin graft successfully.

If you don't believe here it is it's in lithuanian use google translator http://kauno.diena.l...nepadare-374793

[genuine123]

Hi Chuckstonchew,

 

No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.

 

So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?

 

Thanks

 

Hey genuine. As I stated before, I most certainly post here as soon as I get any and every update from Harmon. Unfortunately there hasn't been any updates for a while as he's waiting for his lawyer to talk with the JHU officials. I'll be sure to post here as soon as I hear anything from Harmon. I know it sucks it's taking so long as we were gaining momentum after I talked to him on the phone. But we've done everything in our power and all we can do now is wait. It's in Harmon's hands now.

 

Hi Chuckstonchew,

 

I guess there is still no word from Harmon. This hydrogel seems like such a no-brainer i'm finding it difficult to understand the slow progress. Even the Facebook page, which is really good, hasn't taken off as i thought it would. Guess I'll continue to try and spread the word.

 

Did Harmon ever tell you about the small business he formed?

Edited by genuine123, 27 February 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[seabs135]

 

Hi Chuckstonchew,

 

No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.

 

So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?

 

Thanks

 

Hey genuine. As I stated before, I most certainly post here as soon as I get any and every update from Harmon. Unfortunately there hasn't been any updates for a while as he's waiting for his lawyer to talk with the JHU officials. I'll be sure to post here as soon as I hear anything from Harmon. I know it sucks it's taking so long as we were gaining momentum after I talked to him on the phone. But we've done everything in our power and all we can do now is wait. It's in Harmon's hands now.

 

Hi Chuckstonchew,

 

I guess there is still no word from Harmon. This hydrogel seems like such a no-brainer i'm finding it difficult to understand the slow progress. Even the Facebook page, which is really good, hasn't taken off as i thought it would. Guess I'll continue to try and spread the word.

 

Did Harmon ever tell you about the small business he formed?

 

The last time Chuckstonchew answered this question I'm sure he said he is meeting lawyers.

 

BTW this is clearly is a factual no brainer, but the problem we have on here is every time we all try to inform and interest people, the information sometimes gets smoked over...  Also regarding the facebook page, its kind of like one billboard on a street corner in a big city at the momet but with little other media alongside it.

[Lapis lazuli]

Smoked over? What do you mean?

[seabs135]

@Genuine123, me restating this here imo will probably unintentionally prejudice shit, it could look like there is a deceptive debate, when the facts we have cant be debated. Anyway here is why this is a no brainer, just to restate:

The background factual knowledge we have: We have the facts that equally treated scaffold behave the similar in all mammals = 1. We have the fact that digestible gels create cells and non-degradable ones don’t create cells = 1. (1 + 1) / 2 = 100%. Next we have the foreground or primary facts that a porous and soft rapidly degradable sugar hydrogel which degraded in under 7 days got complete regeneration of a full thickness 3rd degree burn = 1. We have the fact that the hydrogel was compared to a state of the art control = 1 (btw this is rare on this thread that something can be observed against an objective state of the art control standard, no one has really noticed this aspect here.). We have the fact that the test is very easy, cheap and testable = 1. (1+ 1 + 1)/3 = 100%. I could go on the primary facts. But even if we multiply the background facts with the primary facts it is still a 100% no brainer. 1 * 1 = 100%. Note: I will state here that nothing is exactly 100%, but using this information this is as close to 100% as you can get in anything in life. in fact using the information we have, the probability for this not to work is ridiculously insignificant, it has a serious and ridiculously miniscule probability. The only thing that is currently debatable here is funding.

 

Smoked over? What do you mean?

 

@Lapis it can mean anything from the thread being spammed, the topic being ignored, faux debates, and so on, instead of trying to bring awareness of the facts. Most of the smoke/fog/noise blown over is accidental. 

[panos]

No one can doubt that seabs...also vegf enapsulated at hydrogel was critical...many noobs will come here saying it doesnt work...

just ignore them.i wish i had the knowledge /equipment to create something similar...

[seabs135]

No one can doubt that seabs...also vegf enapsulated at hydrogel was critical...many noobs will come here saying it doesnt work...

just ignore them.i wish i had the knowledge /equipment to create something similar...

No noobs here in the main, just scarred people looking for information. There was no vegf added. They had a hypothisis that this, without anything added, could get neovascularization and regeneration. They got rapid digestion, rapid neovascularization, and complete regeneration.

Edited by seabs135, 28 February 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[panos]

no VEGF  added? from the patent  http://patentscope.w...&tab=PCT Biblio

 

[0089] In exemplary embodiments, the delivery of VEGF promotes tissue ingrowth and functional vascularization. In the examples that follow, five- week-long study first revealed significantly more tissue ingrowth, primarily by macrophages, into the VEGF-encapsulated hydrogel than into blank hydrogel. This result may suggest that VEGF attracts circulating cells into the hydrogel, thus promoting tissue penetration. Phelps et al. also found that matrices lacking VEGF showed less tissue invasion than VEGF-incorporating matrices (Phelps et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, vol. 107, no. 8, pp. 3323-8, 2010). The tissue ingrowth might further expedite scaffold biodegradation, which in return could facilitate further ingrowth. This result was further confirmed by a three-week-long multiple GF delivery study; without the VEGF encapsulation, in which neither the blank hydrogel nor the hydrogel loaded with SDF-1 and IGF showed any significant tissue ingrowth. Although Cohen et al. (Dvir et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A vol. 106, no. 35, pp. 14990-5, 2009) demonstrated that a scaffold encapsulated with SDF-1 and IGF promoted prevascularization when implanted onto a rat omentum, these hydrogels revealed neither significant tissue ingrowth nor vascular structures with the encapsulation of SDF-1 and IGF. Overall, these results suggest that VEGF delivery is required to initiate sufficient tissue ingrowth, which eventually leads to functional vascular development within the hydrogel implants.

[seabs135]

no VEGF  added? from the patent  http://patentscope.w...&tab=PCT Biblio

 

[0089] In exemplary embodiments, the delivery of VEGF promotes tissue ingrowth and functional vascularization. In the examples that follow, five- week-long study first revealed significantly more tissue ingrowth, primarily by macrophages, into the VEGF-encapsulated hydrogel than into blank hydrogel. This result may suggest that VEGF attracts circulating cells into the hydrogel, thus promoting tissue penetration. Phelps et al. also found that matrices lacking VEGF showed less tissue invasion than VEGF-incorporating matrices (Phelps et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, vol. 107, no. 8, pp. 3323-8, 2010). The tissue ingrowth might further expedite scaffold biodegradation, which in return could facilitate further ingrowth. This result was further confirmed by a three-week-long multiple GF delivery study; without the VEGF encapsulation, in which neither the blank hydrogel nor the hydrogel loaded with SDF-1 and IGF showed any significant tissue ingrowth. Although Cohen et al. (Dvir et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A vol. 106, no. 35, pp. 14990-5, 2009) demonstrated that a scaffold encapsulated with SDF-1 and IGF promoted prevascularization when implanted onto a rat omentum, these hydrogels revealed neither significant tissue ingrowth nor vascular structures with the encapsulation of SDF-1 and IGF. Overall, these results suggest that VEGF delivery is required to initiate sufficient tissue ingrowth, which eventually leads to functional vascular development within the hydrogel implants.

 

That is from a patent, and patents are full of claims and abstract claims, some tested, some theorised, the claims in a patent is all about trying to protect property.

 

The paper on the other hand has a 'factual basis,' It is not abstract. The paper observes something tested in method, using a control. And can be tested again. It states nothing was added. And it states it got rapid neovascularization and angiogenesis in 7 days. VEGF is 'theorised' to be involved in angiogenesis and neovascularization. VEGF and angiogenisis was stimulated by the digestion of the hydrogel, proven by the rapid neovascularization and the fact that the hydrogel had 714 blood vessels per mm squared and the control had 182 vessels per mm squared.  The whole paper is about neovascularization and regeneration.

Edited by seabs135, 28 February 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Rez77]

hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no. 

 

but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no? 

[acnescar123]

hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no. 

 

but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no? 

 

You already have something similar to that around - "recell".

[Mr Guru]

Is it possible to get this hydrogel treatment or is it still in testing?

Couldn't find anything about this hydrogel availability.

[Rez77]

hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no. 

 

but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no? 

 

You already have something similar to that around - "recell".

 

No, the recell absolutely does not produce youthful skin of that nature...

 

Recell is a fairly underwhelming technology, it simply minimizes the damage done by the laser AND it also helps a bit with pigmentation...but it does not actually aid in REGENERATING new skin, this is why it is a failure in producing true skin regeneration. 

 

The hydrogel, I'm assuming since it produces "scarless" healing actually regenerates tissue somehow. True? 

Edited by Rez77, 03 March 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Vladislav]

I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the point is that the 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds always heal without scarring (and that happens all the time, without any medical intervention, without any hydrogel, that is due to rapid reepithelialization), so by using the 8020 dextran hydrogel even 3rd degree burns and deep wounds, full tickeness skin excisions could be healed without scarring just like 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds (due to accelerated reepithelialization), at least I hope that is the case.

[Rez77]

I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the point is that the 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds always heal without scarring (and that happens all the time, without any medical intervention, without any hydrogel, that is due to rapid reepithelialization), so by using the 8020 dextran hydrogel even 3rd degree burns and deep wounds, full tickeness skin excisions could be healed without scarring just like 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds (due to accelerated reepithelialization), at least I hope that is the case.

 

Question: so I'm assuming CO2 lasers are not enough to burns deep enough to solve acne scars. At least I've never seen anyone whose deeper scars were fixed with lasers alone (or anything else for that matter). Is the hope then for bad acne scars or other scars that you could use a very strong laser that would induce a deep third degree burn and then slather hydrogel over it and it would all regenerate into new looking skin? 

[Vladislav]

As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds, yes - it's a pretty invasive procedure, and then you get a completely regenerated skin wounds (as if those wounds were only small 1st or 2nd degree burns or superficial skin wounds that are not very deep).

Edited by Vladislav, 03 March 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Mr Guru]

As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds, yes - it's a pretty invasive procedure, and then you get a completely regenerated skin wounds (as if those wounds were only small 1st or 2nd degree burns or superficial skin wounds that are not very deep).

I have a question too, "As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds" - judging by your words that means the hydrogel treatment is available right now?

[Vladislav]

No, it is not available right now, it may be available in the future.

[skinregenerator]

No, it is not available right now, it may be available in the future.

Edited by skinregenerator, 06 March 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[panos]

Hey i guys i was reading a study for scar free healing back to 2004...And it was claimming

 

''that Such putative human pharmaceutical agents have successfully completed phase 1 safety and

toleration studies under the auspices of a biotechnology

company, Renovo Limited (see www.renovo.com)''

 

 

So what happened to this ??

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....df/15293811.pdf