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Scarless Healing


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#21 Anna

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:27 PM

At this point, that would be a more accurate description Tom. The banner on Renovo's website used to read "Scarless Healing" but they seem to have taken that down. They really are pushing the investment potential rather than the substance of efficacy...what's new?! I have no problem with somebody making a healthy profit if their product really works. I am quite a bit tired of the disappointments though!
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#22 Neca

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 16 2007, 04:28 PM) View Post
there was some talk at that time of having the assess a patient's natural levels for TGF B1,2,&3 to make a custom concoction to specifically address each individual's needs. That seems to have gone by the wayside...maybe, at least for now.


Now that would have been a great idea had they decided to go down this route but it's not surprising they didn't. In today's world corporations aim to make profit rather than primarily cure health problems. Can you imagine how much it would have cost Renovo had they offered custom made formulations. Moreover, by splitting the TGFs into two different products that aim to do two slightly different things they can make more money by targeting different markets.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 16 2007, 04:28 PM) View Post
Have you read about some of the work being done by DARPA and ACell involving tissue regeneration?


Yes, there seems to be a load of research going into mimicking tissue regeneration that occurs in some reptiles for human beings. I know Renovo's head Prof. Ferguson has been consulted on this as well. I'm not sure I've read much about DARPA or ACell specifically though, if they can also help scar removal that would be great too eusa_dance.gif . Here's one of the article where I read about tissue regeneration if you haven't seen it already:

Doctors seek key to regrowing limbs (Daily Telegraph - UK Newspaper)
http://www.telegraph...12/nregen12.xml

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 16 2007, 06:27 PM) View Post
The banner on Renovo's website used to read "Scarless Healing" but they seem to have taken that down. They really are pushing the investment potential rather than the substance of efficacy...what's new?! I have no problem with somebody making a healthy profit if their product really works. I am quite a bit tired of the disappointments though!


That's a very clever spot Anna nice one. I didn't realise that they have taken down the "Scarless healing" tag. I did notice though that they are being more careful with their wording though. When the company launched initially it was all about scarless healing, now it seems they talk mainly about scar improvement. Their marketing is quite cunning:

QUOTE(renovo)
Renovo is a biopharmaceutical product company and is the world leader in scar prevention and reduction research[/b] and the development of drugs to prevent and reduce scarring at multiple body sites including the skin, eyes and nerves.


A world leader in scar prevention and reduction research is not the same as one that actually produces products that prevent scars. And why would you develop drugs that can prevent AND reduce scarring; surely if it prevented scarring then you wouldn't need something that reduces them?

Anna, again, I think you are correct; the chief execs realise the investment potential of Renovo and how much money they can make by signing a licensing deal with Big Pharma which is probably why they decided against custom made preparations in favour of mass produced TGF3 preparations.

QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 16 2007, 04:43 PM) View Post
I think perhaps it should be marketed as scar less than normal healing. What i sumised from the product details would that you would scar less than you normally would not that you wouldn't scar at all. At the moment it appears juvista is targeted for the surgery market. The possiblility for people who have serious scars (im talking about burns, things of that nature) seems to be in one of their other products which is still in phase 2.


Yes definitely Tom. it should be marketed as scar less rather than scarless healing. Once an incision is made and the drug injected you will still scar but 50% less than had you used nothing or a placebo.

The thing is the stock market is currently quite excited over the prospects of making profit from this company. When Renovo initially listed, its share price was around 80p, now it's hovering around 180-190p and this will almost certainly double once a deal is declared in a few weeks time. After that the growth of the price will be pretty strong once the products are released. In investors' eyes, Renovo's drug don't have to cure scars or prevent them to be profitable, instead the products just have to be a better alternative to what is currently on the market ie silicon sheets and standard scar revision.

This fact is a real shame because had they used custom made formulations it would be most probable that we would be dealing with something that almost DEFINITELY cures/prevents scars 99%-100% of the time!!!

...Maybe there might be another company willing to do this eusa_boohoo.gif ?

#23 Anna

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 03:19 PM

DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) is funding a project meant to jump start tissue regeneration out of necessity due to extremely high percentage of soldiers coming home permanently injured in the Iraq war. In previous wars for every one soldier that died two came back permanently disabled. In this war for every one soldier killed nine are coming back permanently disabled. Imagine the cost...my thoughts are emotional costs...I'm sure the government is more concerned with the financial costs.
http://www.darpa.mil...iroirScript.pdf
http://www.darpa.mil.../biosci/rir.htm

DARPA is funding ten US universities with a fast track project of trying to create a blastema and then regenerating a finger. I'll get the links loaded to this post in a bit. It will be nice to get some competition in the field of tissue and limb regeneration! I wouldn't be surprised if some emerging (previously third world) company leapfrogs all of them!
http://www.uml.edu/M...generation.html

I am especially intrigued at the prospect of the studies of the MRL mouse that regenerates tissue. In this case the mouse initally creates a seal but is still able to regenerate holes punched in its skin by catabolically digesting the scar tissue and progressing to perfect regeneration. Moreover, when cells from the MRL mouse were injected into non-regenerating mice those mice were also able to regenerate. Amazing!

Link to article on MRL mouse:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/4888080.stm
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#24 lamarr1986

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE(ylem @ Jun 16 2007, 03:19 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 10 2007, 12:16 AM) View Post
QUOTE(ylem @ Jun 9 2007, 08:07 PM) View Post
But please keep in mind (and I have told thousands this same thing over the years) that DEPRESSED acne scars are different. You are trying to excise an indentation, NOT A MOLE. Excising a pit is much harder and you can't ever expect to have it completely flat. Trust me on this. I've been to many PS and derm surgeons and have had several excisions with each. Take it from me who has actually had it done and knows the true results.

I have done this exercise time and again. I have explained this to posters on here time and again.

I'm terribly sorry to hear of your experience Ylem, so all of your excisions didn't work? Were any slightly better or were they all for the worst. Did you discuss this with your various PS? I was reccomended excision and the PS seemed confident which shocks me if he knew that a poor result was likely.


Nothing I have done has ever made me worse. IT just hasn't had any notcieable cosmetic effect.


Ylem, i'm sure you have also stated hundreds of times before that you believe you do not produce collegen at the same rate as most people? I think the way in which we react to scar treatment depends on our ability to heal, i know that i gained all of my scars on accutane when my healing was very poor. All of my scars are very shallow as well, so i hold out hope that mine will be treated effectively. Although i know i will never rid of them...


#25 ylem

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE(lamarr1986 @ Jun 17 2007, 03:41 PM) View Post
QUOTE(ylem @ Jun 16 2007, 03:19 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 10 2007, 12:16 AM) View Post
QUOTE(ylem @ Jun 9 2007, 08:07 PM) View Post
But please keep in mind (and I have told thousands this same thing over the years) that DEPRESSED acne scars are different. You are trying to excise an indentation, NOT A MOLE. Excising a pit is much harder and you can't ever expect to have it completely flat. Trust me on this. I've been to many PS and derm surgeons and have had several excisions with each. Take it from me who has actually had it done and knows the true results.

I have done this exercise time and again. I have explained this to posters on here time and again.

I'm terribly sorry to hear of your experience Ylem, so all of your excisions didn't work? Were any slightly better or were they all for the worst. Did you discuss this with your various PS? I was reccomended excision and the PS seemed confident which shocks me if he knew that a poor result was likely.


Nothing I have done has ever made me worse. IT just hasn't had any notcieable cosmetic effect.


Ylem, i'm sure you have also stated hundreds of times before that you believe you do not produce collegen at the same rate as most people? I think the way in which we react to scar treatment depends on our ability to heal, i know that i gained all of my scars on accutane when my healing was very poor. All of my scars are very shallow as well, so i hold out hope that mine will be treated effectively. Although i know i will never rid of them...


One thing that just pisses me off is that I truly have the absolute WORST scarring. It's not fair and I feel so cheated out of life when I see people post their pics and complain on here. It's so distressing to have to bear having people always wander their eyes across my face whe n I speak to them because of the extreme severity of the scarring./

And the worst part is I keep trying everything and it has all failed. I can't help but obsess over it because It continues to gradually look wrose.

#26 Neca

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 17 2007, 02:19 PM) View Post
DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) is funding a project meant to jump start tissue regeneration out of necessity due to extremely high percentage of soldiers coming home permanently injured in the Iraq war. In previous wars for every one soldier that died two came back permanently disabled. In this war for every one soldier killed nine are coming back permanently disabled. Imagine the cost...my thoughts are emotional costs...I'm sure the government is more concerned with the financial costs.
http://www.darpa.mil...iroirScript.pdf
http://www.darpa.mil.../biosci/rir.htm

DARPA is funding ten US universities with a fast track project of trying to create a blastema and then regenerating a finger. I'll get the links loaded to this post in a bit. It will be nice to get some competition in the field of tissue and limb regeneration! I wouldn't be surprised if some emerging (previously third world) company leapfrogs all of them!
http://www.uml.edu/M...generation.html


Thanks for the great links Anna, the research show strong promise and will definitely be a good addition to current body of research going into the wound healing area. More competition is always welcomed and should mean results are produced much quicker, which is great for us. I'm sure the tissue regeneration isn't too far off but whole limb regeneration most probably will take a lot longer. But since we are talking about scarless healing then DARPA might be able to find a solution to the problem pretty quickly if they are able to perfect tissue regeneration. Hopefully if this is the case then the military won't restrict the technology and enable it to be licensed to the civilian world as well.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 17 2007, 02:19 PM) View Post
I am especially intrigued at the prospect of the studies of the MRL mouse that regenerates tissue. In this case the mouse initally creates a seal but is still able to regenerate holes punched in its skin by catabolically digesting the scar tissue and progressing to perfect regeneration. Moreover, when cells from the MRL mouse were injected into non-regenerating mice those mice were also able to regenerate. Amazing!

Link to article on MRL mouse:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/4888080.stm


That is absolutely genius! When I saw the picture of the control and MRL mouse I was shocked. It is amazing. Let's pray they are able to replicate that in humans.

The end of the article was a little disheartening though eusa_think.gif :

""It is a long term project, but once we know the molecules involved we can the try to modify them to see if we can get this kind of response in mammals"

The complicated nature of mammals means that we might still be a long way off the day when mammals can begin to display MRL-like regenerative properties, but Heber-Katz says the mouse could provide the first step on the path.

"You never really know when you're going to find the answer - it could be very far off or it could be very close. You just don't know.""

Let's just hope it's very close!!!!

[i]P.S. The photos I uploaded on page 1 have finally been approved so if you haven't seen the Juvista vs. Placebo comparison photos then you can check them out.

#27 Anna

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:43 PM

I believe that when the military is behind the research it works to the general benefit as the government doesn’t commercialize the technology. I could be way off on this, but that is my belief. If it turns out that soldiers are healed of scars and disabilities I don’t see how they can restrict access for the general population. I’ll be especially watching for whether or not they are able to create a blastema. I have always thought of indented scars as mini amputations. One of the articles hypothesized that a leg would take a year to regenerate. It would seem a scar on the skin should only take about ten days. Wouldn’t that be great?!


I believe they mentioned which genes are involved and it seems to me that since a mouse is a mammal we are much closer than when they were talking about newts and salamanders ; ). My vote is definitely on the “very close.”!

The pictures ARE an improvement. It is clear though that some of the test subjects must be creating more TGF B1. It really is too bad they couldn’t inhibit that.

Thanks for your post Neca! There is a lot of great work going on right now that makes me hopeful. I was a bit dejected at the prospects for our collective plight and stayed away from this board for a few years, but these developments are really encouraging.

My best!
Anna

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#28 Tom_Mason

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:38 PM

When this research comes to fruition it will be HUGE!!! The idea of minimizing scarring is great but when humans can prevent scarring im thinking there will be news coverage. There are so many applications for this it seems so unreal that within this century people will look back on scars and think "what would that have been like, having a permanent scar"


#29 Anna

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 07:57 AM

I've thougth the same thing Tom. I wonder too if, at the time this treatment is put into place, it won't also address some aging issues. At a cellular level sun exposure is extremely damaging, so if this is perhaps cellular scarring could it be that treatments like this could prevent aging? I wonder if those test subjects who received the TGF B3 had any rejuvenating effects on the areas which were injected. AND, while prevention is nice, reversal is what most of us here are looking for! If it's coming, let it be SOON!
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#30 Anna

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 02:21 PM

“I've read some articles on Juvista and it's supposed to be a miracle for existing scars as well as preventing new ones. Existing scars can be markedly improved with just two injections, with the cost estimated to be less than Botox. I hope this thing hits the market soon.”



Emily,

Do you remember where you read this and what type of existing scars it was going to be effective for? It seems that in order for this to work you would need to obliterate every last bit of scar tissue to allow the regenerative signals to go through...If it would treat them without any type of surgical/chemical removal that would be HUGE!

Thanks! Anna

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#31 Neca

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 06:46 PM

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 18 2007, 01:43 PM) View Post
I believe that when the military is behind the research it works to the general benefit as the government doesn’t commercialize the technology. I could be way off on this, but that is my belief. If it turns out that soldiers are healed of scars and disabilities I don’t see how they can restrict access for the general population. I’ll be especially watching for whether or not they are able to create a blastema. I have always thought of indented scars as mini amputations. One of the articles hypothesized that a leg would take a year to regenerate. It would seem a scar on the skin should only take about ten days. Wouldn’t that be great?!


Gee I would take this estimate in a split second! And the military would in fact probably licence the technology to civilians as they would be most interested in gaining a return on all the funds they poured into doing the research in the first place.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 18 2007, 01:43 PM) View Post
The pictures ARE an improvement. It is clear though that some of the test subjects must be creating more TGF B1. It really is too bad they couldn’t inhibit that.


That's exactly what I thought, which is why Renovo should combine their two products Juvista and Juvidex into one so the eventual drug suppresses TGF1 production and incorporates TGF3. The sugar on top would be if they were also able to incorporate a substance to suppress TGF2. I just don't think Juvista is a powerful enough product, the same with Juvidex, to prevent scar tissue formation...but put them together and THAT would be a perfect product.

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 18 2007, 01:43 PM) View Post
Thanks for your post Neca! There is a lot of great work going on right now that makes me hopeful. I was a bit dejected at the prospects for our collective plight and stayed away from this board for a few years, but these developments are really encouraging.


Yes, I too stayed away from the forum as I just kept seeing recurring posts of people saying they had punch biopsies, done needling, acid peels, fraxel etc... when the end result really won't get rid of the problem. Now, we are finally seeing proper research going into getting rid of that damn scar tissue....forever!!!!

Let's just make sure we keep this topic alive as the more people who know about it the better. This aspect of research needs all the attention it can get!

QUOTE(Tom_Mason @ Jun 18 2007, 05:38 PM) View Post
When this research comes to fruition it will be HUGE!!! The idea of minimizing scarring is great but when humans can prevent scarring im thinking there will be news coverage. There are so many applications for this it seems so unreal that within this century people will look back on scars and think "what would that have been like, having a permanent scar"


Now won't that be a thought to treasure! In fact I might just keep one or two of my scars as souveniers; you never know, in the future world of scarless healing, I'm sure scarring will be a fashion accessory wink.gif

QUOTE(anna @ Jun 19 2007, 06:57 AM) View Post
I've thougth the same thing Tom. I wonder too if, at the time this treatment is put into place, it won't also address some aging issues. At a cellular level sun exposure is extremely damaging, so if this is perhaps cellular scarring could it be that treatments like this could prevent aging? I wonder if those test subjects who received the TGF B3 had any rejuvenating effects on the areas which were injected. AND, while prevention is nice, reversal is what most of us here are looking for! If it's coming, let it be SOON!


That's an interesting point about whether these drugs may help with aging issues. Thing is that with aging the skin loses its elasticity so while the drug may heal the collagen in the skin I'm not sure what it does to the elasticity.

Both reversal and prevention would be great, but if prevention was just invented that would still suit us and in fact I think it is a more realistic option. Treating current scars with the prevention drug would just involve excising the scar tissue, injecting the drug into the skin and then stitching it up again. It might take them a lot longer to find a substance that 'eats' away at scar tissue and then heals with normal skin.

#32 Neca

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 07:59 AM

***IMPORTANT UPDATE***: THE GOOD NEWS - 20th June, 2007

RENOVO SEALS IMPORTANT LICENSING DEAL WITH SHIRE FOR THEIR JUVISTA DRUG

QUOTE(The Times)
Shares in Renovo Group, the AIM listed biopharmaceutical company, rose steeply after Shire said it had agreed to pay the group up to $825 million (ÂŁ414 million) for exclusive development and commercialisation rights to its scar prevention drug, Juvista.

Shire will pay $75 million upfront and will take a $50 million equity stake in Renovo.

The rest of the cash will be paid as milestone payments dependent on the drug, which was originally developed from studies of wound healing in alligator embryos, winning licensing approval and hitting sales targets. The development partnership covers all countries outside the European Union.

Shire and Renovo claim that the total market for Juvista could be worth as much as $4 billion in the US alone, where 42 million people undergo surgery every year.

The drug, which is due to enter final-stage Phase III trials next year, is designed to be used after surgery, for burns victims, cosmetic surgery or for acne scars.

He added that it was discovered by observing the unique healing properties of embryos, which do not scar, and replicating them in a protein-based injectable drug. Shares in Renovo were up 24p to 211p by midday.



THE BAD NEWS

QUOTE(The Times)
It could be launched in 2011, according to Mark Ferguson, Renovo’s chief executive officer.


Well there we have it ladies and gentlemen! Renovo finally agree on their licensing deal which should earn them a sack of money. I was so happy when I initially read that article until I got to the last bit where it said it could be launched in 2011, then I almost threw my PC out the window eusa_pray.gif !!! I don't think I can wait another four more years with these scars. But I'm not sure that release date is entirely correct as previously Renovo has claimed that they aimed to get Juvista fast tracked for a release date of 2009. They will be holding their interim meeting on 27th June, 2007 so we should know a bit more by then. At least the article mentions "acne scars" smile.gif!

You can read more about the specifics of the Renovo/Shire licensing deal here: Renovo.com

I also read something very interesting (in their INTERIM RESULTS FOR THE SIX MONTHS ENDED 31 MARCH 2007) about Juvidex, their other drug.

QUOTE(Renovo)
Juvidex, a formulation of the sugar Mannose-6-Phosphate (M6P), inhibits the
activation of TGFbeta1 and TGFbeta2 resulting in an improvement of
subsequent scarring.


This is contradictory to what they state on their main site about Juvidex. Above they are stating that the drug inhibits both TGF1 and TGF2 but on their Renovo.com site they only say it inhibits TGF1. If the former is true then that's GREAT!!! I will try and hunt down some more info.

Anyway, sorry everyone for these past two veeeery long posts, but the ball is starting to roll finally..I only wish it would roll quicker so we can all get rid of these scars for good!!!



#33 *Ariana*

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 08:15 AM

Awesome information, guys! Thanks so much for sharing.


I will be looking forward to the updates.

Interesting about including both, the inhibition of TGFbeta1 and TGFbeta2, Neca. You would think a company as credible and big as Renovo would be more careful and consistent with its claims. But yes--both would be great!


Celebrating Fishbulb to the fullest...

“... as the moon lingers a moment over the bitterroots, before its descent into the invisible, my mind is filled with song. I find I am humming softly; not to the music, but something else; some place else; a place remembered; a field of grass where no one seemed to have been; except a deer; and the memory is strengthened by the feeling of you, dancing in my awkward arms.”

#34 Anna

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 02:45 PM

The idea of combining Juvidex and Juvista is a great idea Neca! It at least would be a step closer to a custom application. I don’t think there is any possibility of too much of either TGF B3 or Mannose 6 Phosphate, given that Mannose 6 Phosphate being the active factor in Aloe Vera.

I will definitely stay in the forum this time. I am committed to seeing scarring eradicated. Although it just kills me that the wait is so long to get this. It just seems like such a simple thing in my mind, given TGF B3 is a naturally occurring factor why does it need to go through all the testing??? I haven’t heard of any risks associated with an excess of this!

Neca, I personally will let you keep a scar in your scrapbook. I want perfect skin!

I think in the case of sun exposure and the accrued impact of environmental toxins and mutagens our skin is creating scarred or imperfectly formed replacement tissue. Scar tissue is much more brittle and less elastic than healthy tissue. That is what I believe we perceive as aged skin. Part of the assessment Renovo did was testing the tensile strength of skin treated with TGF B3 and it was much more elastic than scarred skin.

I would actually like to see the reversal as with the MRL mice. It would be wonderful to have wounds seal to reduce the chance of infection but then to have that protected tissue continue on to regenerate perfectly.

Also, if anyone hasn’t seen it here is a link to a news story about ACell powder and its regenerative potential.
http://www.myfoxclev...mp;pageId=3.5.1

Have a great day everyone!
Anna
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#35 Tom_Mason

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 01:44 AM

[quote name='anna' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:45 PM' post='1916350']
The idea of combining Juvidex and Juvista is a great idea Neca! It at least would be a step closer to a custom application. I don’t think there is any possibility of too much of either TGF B3 or Mannose 6 Phosphate, given that Mannose 6 Phosphate being the active factor in Aloe Vera.

I will definitely stay in the forum this time. I am committed to seeing scarring eradicated. Although it just kills me that the wait is so long to get this. It just seems like such a simple thing in my mind, given TGF B3 is a naturally occurring factor why does it need to go through all the testing??? I haven’t heard of any risks associated with an excess of this!

Neca, I personally will let you keep a scar in your scrapbook. I want perfect skin!


Anna, realistically i think in our lifetime (near the end) we will see scars minimised to the point where they are nearly undectable. I agree with u that the wait has been so long, you would think that research would have began 40 years ago on how to eliminate them since most ppl have at least 1.
I think that is the key to finding a solution to a medical problem. If many people are affected by it, the faster the cure. Such as with dentistry since the vast majority of ppl dont have perfect teeth. Dentists now can pretty much create a smile using crowns and so on. If most ppl had acne scars or facial scars then there is no way this forum would exist as a cure for it would have been found long ago.
I think with renovo we have to thank all those women (and some men) who are wanting plastic surgery such as face lifts with minimal scarring. These are the ppl who drive companies like renovo to put out products like juvista which help others such as those on this forum as a side effect.



#36 Anna

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 08:21 AM

Tom, I agree and disagree with you on your points. I think that it is not going to be much longer until we reach the point of being able to both prevent and reverse scarring. Scarring is not just a cosmetic manifestation. Scarring affects every aspect of the healing of human injury, both internal and external. Yes, women do have a greater drive to achieve perfect and scar free facial healing, but men, being more subject to injury given riskier behaviour are the reason behind DARPA's recent interest in this plight. Incidentally, since you mention teeth, did you know that the McGowan institute is working on a project to regenerate teeth in vitro? http://www.mirm.pitt...ccr/newtech.asp

So while yes, we have acne scarring on our faces, and we are not a majority, the strong impetus to eliminate scarring has been in place for a long time, the means to address it was not understood until the relatively recent advances in diagnostic tools and even the mapping of the human genome. I therefore think my optimism is realistic for a near cure! eusa_angel.gif
We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.

#37 Neca

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 06:05 PM

Well I have some slightly disappointing news...

Prof. Ferguson, CEO of Renovo, gave a brief 15-20mins presentation at Piper Jaffray's 2nd Annual London Health Care Conference in London today and I listened in via the webcast.

It was a very quick presentation to investors basically outlining the Renovo's new deal with Shire for the Juvista drug and some details about the company's other products plus trial results.

During the presentation, Ferguson touched on Juvista's clinically and statistically significant results of the past four phase II efficacy trials relating to Juvista which showed improvement in scarring. He began speaking about which dose they now think they will use for Juvista and then moved on to its success rate based on the drug's trial results. To us, scar sufferers, this part of Juvista is the most important, yet Ferguson seemed to rush through this very important info. The slide he was speaking from stated:

QUOTE(Prof Ferguson @ CEO Renovo)
Efficacious in improving both good and poor scars:
-33% of patients will get a permanent marked improvement,
-33% a permanent moderate improvement,
-BUT the remaining 33% will experience no improvement whatsoever in the scar.

The most recent trial demonstrates that:
-Approx. 70% of patients had an improvement of scarring ranging 10%-79%
-Approx. 60% of patients had an improvement of scarring ranging 20%-79%
-Scar improvements evenly distributed between 10% and 79%


(Here's the original slide: Posted Image

The above information basically states that we have a 33% of the drug not working and not doing anything to our scars at all! I bet I will part of that stat sad.gif. Moreover, the scar improvement range is HUGE> 10%-79% is a very wide range...so if we are lucky enough that the drug works on our scars it will not necessarily improve it by much.

This bascially explains why Renovo have subdivided their active ingredients into different products rather than combining them as one (which was my initial observation). If they combined the active ingredients of Juvista (TGF3) and the active ingredients of Juvidex (TGF1+2 inhibitors) then we would have a product that would have MUCH MUCH higher statistics of curing and removing the scar permanently.

BUT seeing as this is a public company listed on the stock exchange they must maximise their shareholders investments as much as possible. Which means...have as many different products as possible performing as many different functions!!!! They are working on having 19 different product candidates.

So we can see...the idea here is not to cure...but just to treat and reduce the problem.

To be honest with you, this is pretty ridiculous; I could tell from the moment I read their literature stating that scars do not form in embryos because they have high TGF3 and no TGF1+2 and humans have the opposite. So instead of putting the theory into practice ie creating a product that replicates what happens IN THE EXACT SAME WAY as in embryos, they have invented two different products therefore solving only 50% of the problem eusa_doh.gif !

Or maybe they just want us to buy both Juvista and Juvidex when we go for our scar revision treatment? Ok, if that works then fine buy me, they just want to make more money. But what irritates me is that Juvidex is about a year behind in the development phase so we will have to wait ages!!!

Ok sorry, rant over. I'm just impatient.

Ferguson said during the presentation that if all things go well during Juvista's development then the estimated release date will be around 2010.

I want to speed things up though. What annoys me is that Juvista and Juvidex are essentially very basic products; what is stopping us from purchasing some TGF3 and also some TGF1+2 inhibitors? I've discussed this already with Anna and we are having a look into suppliers.

Anna you say that Aloe Vera has the active ingredients Mannose 6 Phosphate, so does Aloe Vera therefore partially inhibit scar tissue production?


#38 Anna

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Posted 22 June 2007 - 11:25 AM

Neca,

This is depressing. I pinned my hopes on Renovo for the last five years, and now it seems that hope is kind of crushed. This isn’t rocket science. Professor Ferguson merely observed and identified something that occurs in nature and is now marketing a synthetically derived version of a natural growth factor. Yes, it is a significant undertaking but it is not splitting the atom. I sent you a PM too.

Although, while Renovo seems to have given us a setback, I don’t have all my hopes in their basket, so to speak. There are all sorts of approaches being considered in laboratories across the globe. There is the Extra-Cellular Matrix approach being taken by ACell and the gene therapy possibility presented in the example of the MRL mouse. And these are only those I have read of. There most certainly may be more!

And yes Neca, aloe vera is a known inhibitor of scar tissue formation. I had a tiny cyst on my arm that I lanced with a 5mm cut. I treated the cut by keeping freshly cut aloe vera on it for a week, and it did not leave any scar tissue (read white line). It has been used to treat wounds since ancient times.

Thanks for your post Neca and let us all keep our spirits up. I know it is hard sometimes!

Anna

We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.

#39 Tom_Mason

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 03:28 AM

"I want to speed things up though. What annoys me is that Juvista and Juvidex are essentially very basic products; what is stopping us from purchasing some TGF3 and also some TGF1+2 inhibitors?"
I think the brilliant part of this kind of research going on is that other companies seeing the popularity of the products will think exactly like you and quickly put 2 and 2 together to grab part of renovos market share.
Obviously all people here want to speed things up as we aren't getting any younger but i think we're on the edge of this scar healing boom, exciting times are ahead!!!

#40 Neca

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:06 PM

***Keep posting news relating to any companies putting research in to current and future scarless healing.***

The more info we have the better and the more positive it will make us feel. There does seem to be a lot going on in the scarless healing world of research at the moment.

There is an article posted on the Arizona Republic website that explains how a skin cream has gone on the market based on research into injuries experienced on the battlefield:

http://www.azcentral...0127skin27.html

I have quoted part of it here:

QUOTE
A synthesized version of a human protein that gives skin its elastic properties may someday help wounds heal faster and without scarring. A synthetic version of elastin may even help regenerate lost fingers and perhaps limbs.

But for now, a synthetic elastin called Elastatropin has been relegated to the $14 billion-a-year beauty industry, where it is the primary ingredient in a high-end face cream called DermaLastyl.

"It pays the bills," said Burt Ensley, the Sedona scientist who developed Elastatropin as an agent to help heal battlefield wounds.

Ensley, a microbiologist, created the substance in response to a request for proposals from the Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency. The agency, which funds research into advanced science and its military applications, was seeking new approaches to healing battle wounds without scarring and with little or no lost performance.

Fresh wounds lack elastin, which contributes to the formation of scar tissue. Ensley believes that introducing synthesized elastin to damaged tissues could promote healing without scar tissue and resulting impairments.

The government turned down Ensley's request for a $4 million research grant to study the healing qualities of elastin.


Anna, you're right, the US government seems desperate to find a solution and you have mentioned DAPRA many times in your posts. It's a real shame they turned him down? What was the point of them asking him to find a solution and then not fund him for it? Maybe they decided that the other wound healing research that Anna posted about was more probable?

So instead the guy is using the Elastin and selling it as an anti-aging product, lol:

QUOTE
"I knew there were other uses, and skin care seemed like a natural application," he said.

Since September, Ensley's company DermaPlus Inc. has sold more than 1,000 2-ounce bottles of DermaLastyl cream for $89 apiece. The product is sold via a Web site and a toll-free telephone number.

"My primary interest lies with exploring the healing properties of elastin," he said. "But for now, DermaLastyl is generating revenue."

Ensley said the synthesized elastin in the cream is absorbed into the skin and replenishes sufficient amounts of the protein to "significantly slow or prevent wrinkles and facial sagging."


At least the article ends on a positive note:

QUOTE
Vicki Chandler, director of the university's Institute for Collaborative Bioresearch, said the institute has been talking with Ensley.

"We are doing our own research on tissue regeneration, so a collaboration would have a lot of traction," Chandler said.


Here is the guys final market product released for anti-aging:

http://dermalastyl.com

If you ask me, I wouldn't buy that product even if I had wrinkles; it's too expensive and doubt it would work.

But what purpose does this all serve, it will hopefully keep Renovo on their toes and try and push for the release of their products earlier. The more competition, the better!




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