4523 replies to this topic

[alonso]

hey seabs135, along this topic you say that scar free healing (not scarless healing) is here. I am with you, I have researched and read a lot.
You always mentioned the term "non denatured" to refer to ECM, also, You mentioned decorin at 200 nM,
You say that ECM "non denatured" or decorin 200 nM can achieve scar free healing, but I can´t find the article or the document.
I write in google ECM non denatured and nothing appears, only appears links to this forum.
Can you show me where you find this? Ecm non denatured heals without scar, or similar.

scar free healing is here, but, I sent emails to Stephen Badylak lab, to Ellen Heber katz, they say that their work is only basic research, they don´t listen patients, etc, I am very frustated.

There are images, showing scar free healing with ECM (visually):
1.The Use of Acellular Dermal Matrix for Coverage of Exposed Joint and Extensor Mechanism in
Thermally Injured Patients With Few Options (scar free healing with Alloderm)
2.Healing acute excisional wounds from Mohs Micrographic Surgery: (scar free healing with Apligraft)

but, no one has cut their scars and applied ECM (Alloderm or Apligraft) WHY? we are in 2012, this topic began in june 2007.
I think that enough is enough, WE HAVE TO MOVE.
Otherwise, years will continue going, and people will continue suffering for this.
Forgive If I am wrong, but, I think that all in this forum want have the skin we had before,
Personally, I am tired, I am going to purchase Alloderm. I have a distributor in my city, and the friend of my father is a doctor, he can prescribe me this ECM.

Edited by alonso, 29 April 2012 - 04:26 AM.

[solo_premium]

good luck with alloderm and please post results.

[WinnieTheBlue]

hey seabs135, along this topic you say that scar free healing (not scarless healing) is here. I am with you, I have researched and read a lot.
You always mentioned the term "non denatured" to refer to ECM, also, You mentioned decorin at 200 nM,
You say that ECM "non denatured" or decorin 200 nM can achieve scar free healing, but I can´t find the article or the document.
I write in google ECM non denatured and nothing appears, only appears links to this forum.
Can you show me where you find this? Ecm non denatured heals without scar, or similar.

scar free healing is here, but, I sent emails to Stephen Badylak lab, to Ellen Heber katz, they say that their work is only basic research, they don´t listen patients, etc, I am very frustated.

There are images, showing scar free healing with ECM (visually):
1.The Use of Acellular Dermal Matrix for Coverage of Exposed Joint and Extensor Mechanism in
Thermally Injured Patients With Few Options (scar free healing with Alloderm)
2.Healing acute excisional wounds from Mohs Micrographic Surgery: (scar free healing with Apligraft)

but, no one has cut their scars and applied ECM (Alloderm or Apligraft) WHY? we are in 2012, this topic began in june 2007.
I think that enough is enough, WE HAVE TO MOVE.
Otherwise, years will continue going, and people will continue suffering for this.
Forgive If I am wrong, but, I think that all in this forum want have the skin we had before,
Personally, I am tired, I am going to purchase Alloderm. I have a distributor in my city, and the friend of my father is a doctor, he can prescribe me this ECM.

I can understand your frustration.
You could try contacting Acell. Stephen Badylak is director of Acell. You can order scaffolds there on the site.

I myself believe they are stuck or delayed somehow, because the results are very few and the promise is huge. If the cure was there and easy available, it would make a biljon dollar industry. They are still working on it.

I would like to see more results, statistics, pictures and smilling scarefree people. Stephen Badylak says results aren't published because scaffolds might be applied wrong by surgeons as done in the past and FDA approval is needed. Maybe I am sceptical, but I think they are still recruiting investors for their research. It is probably coming within years, even if FDA approval is needed there are always surgeons who are going to try and apply this without approval. Stephen Babylak is at singularity summit in October 2012.

[WinnieTheBlue]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Edited by WinnieTheBlue, 29 April 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[Vladislav]

hey seabs135, along this topic you say that scar free healing (not scarless healing) is here. I am with you, I have researched and read a lot.
You always mentioned the term "non denatured" to refer to ECM, also, You mentioned decorin at 200 nM

Well there was a biotech company that was called Glytrix and their plan was to develop drug called Pellagen based on Decorin that should reduce dermal scarring, they were looking for $4,7 million for Pellagen development but no one was willing to finance them, if there were no venture capital funds that were interested in financing their anti-scarring drug development than something is wrong with it (and I don't know what?), they have won 100.000 dollars for their business plan from some university and that's their greatest success so far.

Glytrix official web site:
http://www.glytrix.com/

and their business plan: (back in 2010 the plan was to start selling Pellagen anti-scarring drug in Q2 2012 and to earn $60 millions by 2014)
http://www.purdue.ed... 2010 01 13.pdf

Edited by Vladislav, 29 April 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Vladislav]

hey seabs135, once, you mentioned at ellen heber katz



Studies pioneered in this Wistar Institute laboratory have established the MRL mouse as a gold standard of mammalian regeneration studies with the finding that a single gene, p21, controls the entire process.
Over a decade of research has led to a deep understanding of the genetic, molecular biology, cell biology and physiology of regeneration in this remarkable mouse having profound implications for human application.
http://www.wistar.or...-heber-katz-phd
do you know if actually exist drugs that inhibit gene p21?
I think itis being used,or am I wrong
INHIBITION OF P21 AND USE THEREOF FOR INDUCING TISSUE REGENERATION
http://www.sumobrain...2011112954.html

We discussed this about three or four year ago. It looks like it could lead to the regeneration of limbs etc.

BTW I've seen nothing of this being used.

Discovery of the rule of P21 gene in regeneration of the ear and the heart wound in MRL mouse was announced in march 2010 by Wistar Institute, it was two years ago so you couldn't discuss it three or four years ago.

Edited by Vladislav, 29 April 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[seabs135]

hey seabs135, along this topic you say that scar free healing (not scarless healing) is here. I am with you, I have researched and read a lot.
You always mentioned the term "non denatured" to refer to ECM, also, You mentioned decorin at 200 nM,
You say that ECM "non denatured" or decorin 200 nM can achieve scar free healing, but I can´t find the article or the document.
I write in google ECM non denatured and nothing appears, only appears links to this forum.
Can you show me where you find this? Ecm non denatured heals without scar, or similar.

scar free healing is here, but, I sent emails to Stephen Badylak lab, to Ellen Heber katz, they say that their work is only basic research, they don´t listen patients, etc, I am very frustated.

There are images, showing scar free healing with ECM (visually):
1.The Use of Acellular Dermal Matrix for Coverage of Exposed Joint and Extensor Mechanism in
Thermally Injured Patients With Few Options (scar free healing with Alloderm)
2.Healing acute excisional wounds from Mohs Micrographic Surgery: (scar free healing with Apligraft)

but, no one has cut their scars and applied ECM (Alloderm or Apligraft) WHY? we are in 2012, this topic began in june 2007.
I think that enough is enough, WE HAVE TO MOVE.
Otherwise, years will continue going, and people will continue suffering for this.
Forgive If I am wrong, but, I think that all in this forum want have the skin we had before,
Personally, I am tired, I am going to purchase Alloderm. I have a distributor in my city, and the friend of my father is a doctor, he can prescribe me this ECM.

Regarding denaturing of ECM. Here is my quick fire response.
My understanding comes from the patent by Alan Speviak I read a few years ago.
This is off the top of my head as I currently can’t find the patent.
In the Alan Speivack patent for ecm, he mentions what sterilization processes and chemicals denature the product to varying degrees. (<<< He gives out information that the ecm can be spoiled or denatured by sterilization.)
In explaining the denaturing he explains what happens with regards to the degrees of denaturing. E.g. the new tissue will either have tissue rejection or a white texture with fibrotic encapsulation (i.e. he described scar tissue in other words.)
He explains the behaviour of a strongly denatured product e.g. if denatured the ECM takes longer to resorb and be degraded, or it doesn't resorb at all or get rejected by the host
He explained that the scale of denaturing can affect the ecm in varying ways.
Basically that is where I got my logic about denatured ECM.
With regards to decorin, it is cited somewhere on this thread that decorin,is absent in wounded tissue and doesn’t return to a normal level in the tissue for 12months. It is also cited somewhere in this thread that decorin arrests fibroblast proliferation (fibroblast proliferation is what produces excess collagen).

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

I'm with anything that can reepithilize a 3rd degree burn wound in under 21days.

Edited by seabs135, 29 April 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[alonso]

where I can find the patent?
and, no one has excise their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

[seabs135]

where I can find the patent?
and, no one has excise their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

Here is the patent, the term crosslink is interchangeable with denature...

http://www.pharmcast...issue061703.htm

Regarding ecm, people have used it.
E.g look on the acell site. also look for a Dr called Hitzig, he done a talk were he explained how another Dr regenerated an ear. See the Dr Jones case, or the Cooley papers...

Edited by seabs135, 29 April 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[alonso]

no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

Edited by alonso, 29 April 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[alonso]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Hydrogel has only teste in mices, not humans, We do not know if this can work the same way in humans, animals heal better than humans.

By the way, no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

Edited by alonso, 29 April 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[JohnJ]

alonso there was 1 person in this thread who made a cut on his skin and tried acell ECM and on some of his existing scars but im not sure if he did everything correctly , i believe he didnt get scar3 healing .

look at 11.50seconds here scarfree healing



fuck man just listening to him speak about acell there ( trump the ability to scar ) i need it more then anything in the fucking world

i emailed the company back in january to ask when hydrogel would be tested in humans , no respone

Edited by JohnJ, 29 April 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[alonso]

alonso there was 1 person in this thread who made a cut on his skin and tried acell ECM and on some of his existing scars but im not sure if he did everything correctly , i believe he didnt get scar3 healing .

look at 11.50seconds here scarfree healing



fuck man just listening to him speak about acell there ( trump the ability to scar ) i need it more then anything in the fucking world

i emailed the company back in january to ask when hydrogel would be tested in humans , no respone

yes I know, I think it is not necessary to apply ECM to a open wound. Simply, some subcision, some punch excision, punch injerto, then, have a full face dermabrasion, (or laser) and apply ECM (Acell, Oasis, Alloderm, etc). If you read the Acell website, this appears: acell matristem is indicated post laser surgery.
I think some already know this, but, in another forum, one person say that he applied TCA (very strong TCA) on his stretch marks, and then he mixed emu oil with acell (powder) and he applied to his stretch marks.
according to him, he got scar free skin.

Edward nigma said:
acell.com - I have mentioned their stuff before. I obtained a small sample of their powdered product. Bottom line...

strong tca then small amount of powder mixed with emu oil and covered with healing film = stretch mark totally healed.

This is a much better method than the sucessful one I outlined in a previous post and I think this is likely to work for a much broader range of people. Problem is obtaining product from acell as their current product is vet grade and I'm not sure they sell to just anyone. The sample I obtained I got via a contact who sadly cannot provide more.
http://healthyskin.i...52/m/1950092315

strech marks are also deep in the dermis like acne scars, I think that we can do the same, but , no one has tried it.

In Spain their is a doctor (http://www.abruscivito.com), he uses a very aggressive method:
1- First, 50 % tca in all the face
2.- Then, strong dermabrasion (full face)
3.- Finally, Co2 superpulsed and ERbium.
But he warns the next: This type of technique should only be done by real experts and a very thorough postoperative follow-up to avoid complications, accelerate wound healing and the patient's return to normal activities.
You can read more here:
http://piel-l.org/blog/7864

I want to have this procedure, and then apply ECM (in sheet or powder)

By the way, Dr. Pickart said: Some dermatologists inject 70% glycolic acid into pitted scar tissue to dissolve the scar. This can work very well but have a expert do this. Interesting......

Edited by alonso, 30 April 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[seabs135]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Hydrogel has only teste in mices, not humans, We do not know if this can work the same way in humans, animals heal better than humans.

By the way, no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

If a scar is a result from anything it is the result of denaturing through injury, the tissue reacting to something it perceives as a foreign body or could invade as a foreign body, which then denatures the regeneration response, resulting in the body taking to long to heal, meaning scar etc..

BTW scaffolds work the same in all mammals, they just create and micro manage what is needed and have done for millions of years. To argue that these devices work different in a zebra to a pig and discriminate another tissue is wrong. (Also scaffolds have been shown to work similar in all mammals). The intercellular cells works to promote the tissue needed with the scaffold, i.e pig skin, pig skin, human skin, human skin. Intercellular cells just follow the evolutionary instructions in what ever environment they are in.

Edited by seabs135, 30 April 2012 - 02:32 AM.

[alonso]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Hydrogel has only teste in mices, not humans, We do not know if this can work the same way in humans, animals heal better than humans.

By the way, no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

If a scar hasn't been removed it is the result of denaturing, the body reacting to something as a foreign body, the body taking longer than a month to degrade the material etc..

BTW scaffolds work the same in all mammals. The intercellular cells works to promote the tissue needed with the scaffold, i.e pig skin, pig skin, human skin, human skin. Stem cells justr follow the evolutionary instructions in what ever environment they are in.

so, osteopontin gene supression showed scar free healing in animal, in humans only showed scarless healing,
acell showed scar free healing in animal, in humans, scarless healing,
the same can happen with hydrogel
scar free healing is here, this is a fact. but........
is very difficult to access this
e.g. you can excise a scar, no matter how deep, and......
inject embryonic stem cells
apply non denatured ECM
inject something that can suppress TGb 1, 2 and increase tgb 3
if you do all this, indoubtedly, you will get perfect regeneration

but, the problem is:
the use of embryonic stem cells is prohibited
ECM completely non denatured is not commercially available
the same whit tgb1,2 and 3

maybe, you could access this technology if you are armed forces member, but is difficult for a civilian


Dear Alonso,

Thanks for your inquiry. I am a colleague of Dr. Stephen Badylak and I am helping him deal with the massive influx of inquiries following the recent publicity on the use of extracellular matrix (ECM) to facilitate the regeneration of tissue.

By way of background, ECM has been used extensively; it is estimated that 2,000,000 patients have been treated with some form of ECM. The predominant form of ECM is sheet material, and some of the most prevalent applications are hernia repair, treatment of pressure ulcers, and orthopaedic procedures, such as rotator cuff, etc. A powdered form has been used in the fingertip regeneration. It should be noted that the success stories to date involved the loss of the fingertip-above the first knuckle, and the nail bed was not destroyed. We have no expectations that the current ECM technology can regenerate joints (knuckles) or nail beds.

Relative to your specific inquiry,
1. Dr. Badylak is not clinically active-his focus is on research and he relies on other physicians to apply his emerging technologies in the clinic. Hence, when scar mitigation via ECM is feasible, you will have to find a plastic surgeon who is using this type of therapy.
the research

2. The research on using ECM for scar mitigation is still in its infancy, and any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.

3. Assuming that progress in this research continues, it may be possible in 3 to 4 years to refer you to a plastic surgeon somewhere in the world who is applying these emerging technologies.

I hope this introduction helps and thank you for your interest. The best place to follow developments in this area is on our web site at www.mcgowan.pitt.edu.

Other web sites of potential interest to you are:
-Regenerative Medicine: www.regenerativemedicine.net
-McGowan Institute on Facebook: www.facebook.com/McGowanInstitute

John
John N. Murphy
Executive Director-McGowan Institute &
Research Professor-Chemical Engineering
450 Technology Drive, Suite 300
Pittsburgh, PA 15219
Phone: 412-624-5250
Fax: 412-624-5260
Email: jmurphy@pitt.edu

as you can see, any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.
sad but true....METALLICA

[seabs135]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Hydrogel has only teste in mices, not humans, We do not know if this can work the same way in humans, animals heal better than humans.

By the way, no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

If a scar hasn't been removed it is the result of denaturing, the body reacting to something as a foreign body, the body taking longer than a month to degrade the material etc..

BTW scaffolds work the same in all mammals. The intercellular cells works to promote the tissue needed with the scaffold, i.e pig skin, pig skin, human skin, human skin. Stem cells justr follow the evolutionary instructions in what ever environment they are in.

so, osteopontin gene supression showed scar free healing in animal, in humans only showed scarless healing,
acell showed scar free healing in animal, in humans, scarless healing,
the same can happen with hydrogel
scar free healing is here, this is a fact. but........
is very difficult to access this
e.g. you can excise a scar, no matter how deep, and......
inject embryonic stem cells
apply non denatured ECM
inject something that can suppress TGb 1, 2 and increase tgb 3
if you do all this, indoubtedly, you will get perfect regeneration

but, the problem is:
the use of embryonic stem cells is prohibited
ECM completely non denatured is not commercially available
the same whit tgb1,2 and 3

maybe, you could access this technology if you are armed forces member, but is difficult for a civilian


Dear Alonso,

Thanks for your inquiry. I am a colleague of Dr. Stephen Badylak and I am helping him deal with the massive influx of inquiries following the recent publicity on the use of extracellular matrix (ECM) to facilitate the regeneration of tissue.

By way of background, ECM has been used extensively; it is estimated that 2,000,000 patients have been treated with some form of ECM. The predominant form of ECM is sheet material, and some of the most prevalent applications are hernia repair, treatment of pressure ulcers, and orthopaedic procedures, such as rotator cuff, etc. A powdered form has been used in the fingertip regeneration. It should be noted that the success stories to date involved the loss of the fingertip-above the first knuckle, and the nail bed was not destroyed. We have no expectations that the current ECM technology can regenerate joints (knuckles) or nail beds.

Relative to your specific inquiry,
1. Dr. Badylak is not clinically active-his focus is on research and he relies on other physicians to apply his emerging technologies in the clinic. Hence, when scar mitigation via ECM is feasible, you will have to find a plastic surgeon who is using this type of therapy.
the research

2. The research on using ECM for scar mitigation is still in its infancy, and any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.

3. Assuming that progress in this research continues, it may be possible in 3 to 4 years to refer you to a plastic surgeon somewhere in the world who is applying these emerging technologies.

I hope this introduction helps and thank you for your interest. The best place to follow developments in this area is on our web site at www.mcgowan.pitt.edu.

Other web sites of potential interest to you are:
-Regenerative Medicine: www.regenerativemedicine.net
-McGowan Institute on Facebook: www.facebook.com/McGowanInstitute

John
John N. Murphy
Executive Director-McGowan Institute &
Research Professor-Chemical Engineering
450 Technology Drive, Suite 300
Pittsburgh, PA 15219
Phone: 412-624-5250
Fax: 412-624-5260
Email: jmurphy@pitt.edu

as you can see, any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.
sad but true....METALLICA

Hey alonso, I'm only going to discuss things that reepithilize wounds in under 21days.

Edited by seabs135, 30 April 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[alonso]

my English is understandable?i am doing my best
seabs135, yeah, something that can that reepithilize wounds in under 21days is very cool, I am only sharing my little experience.
i am sorry, but i am very frustrated, I've gone to doctors for help, but only showed indifference
thanks,
my english is understandable?

[WinnieTheBlue]

In the meantime my hope is on hydrogel.

Hydrogel has only teste in mices, not humans, We do not know if this can work the same way in humans, animals heal better than humans.

By the way, no one has removed their scars and applied ECM, WHY?

If a scar hasn't been removed it is the result of denaturing, the body reacting to something as a foreign body, the body taking longer than a month to degrade the material etc..

BTW scaffolds work the same in all mammals. The intercellular cells works to promote the tissue needed with the scaffold, i.e pig skin, pig skin, human skin, human skin. Stem cells justr follow the evolutionary instructions in what ever environment they are in.

so, osteopontin gene supression showed scar free healing in animal, in humans only showed scarless healing,
acell showed scar free healing in animal, in humans, scarless healing,
the same can happen with hydrogel
scar free healing is here, this is a fact. but........
is very difficult to access this
e.g. you can excise a scar, no matter how deep, and......
inject embryonic stem cells
apply non denatured ECM
inject something that can suppress TGb 1, 2 and increase tgb 3
if you do all this, indoubtedly, you will get perfect regeneration

but, the problem is:
the use of embryonic stem cells is prohibited
ECM completely non denatured is not commercially available
the same whit tgb1,2 and 3

maybe, you could access this technology if you are armed forces member, but is difficult for a civilian


Dear Alonso,

Thanks for your inquiry. I am a colleague of Dr. Stephen Badylak and I am helping him deal with the massive influx of inquiries following the recent publicity on the use of extracellular matrix (ECM) to facilitate the regeneration of tissue.

By way of background, ECM has been used extensively; it is estimated that 2,000,000 patients have been treated with some form of ECM. The predominant form of ECM is sheet material, and some of the most prevalent applications are hernia repair, treatment of pressure ulcers, and orthopaedic procedures, such as rotator cuff, etc. A powdered form has been used in the fingertip regeneration. It should be noted that the success stories to date involved the loss of the fingertip-above the first knuckle, and the nail bed was not destroyed. We have no expectations that the current ECM technology can regenerate joints (knuckles) or nail beds.

Relative to your specific inquiry,
1. Dr. Badylak is not clinically active-his focus is on research and he relies on other physicians to apply his emerging technologies in the clinic. Hence, when scar mitigation via ECM is feasible, you will have to find a plastic surgeon who is using this type of therapy.
the research

2. The research on using ECM for scar mitigation is still in its infancy, and any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.

3. Assuming that progress in this research continues, it may be possible in 3 to 4 years to refer you to a plastic surgeon somewhere in the world who is applying these emerging technologies.

I hope this introduction helps and thank you for your interest. The best place to follow developments in this area is on our web site at www.mcgowan.pitt.edu.

Other web sites of potential interest to you are:
-Regenerative Medicine: www.regenerativemedicine.net
-McGowan Institute on Facebook: www.facebook.com/McGowanInstitute

John
John N. Murphy
Executive Director-McGowan Institute &
Research Professor-Chemical Engineering
450 Technology Drive, Suite 300
Pittsburgh, PA 15219
Phone: 412-624-5250
Fax: 412-624-5260
Email: jmurphy@pitt.edu

as you can see, any clinical trials in the next few years will be limited to injured US Military personnel s part of the military funded research project.
sad but true....METALLICA

When did you get this reply?

In the Netherlands there is a new tissue generation lab at the university of Twente. It's an international collabiration and the specialisation is scaffolds. I am just saying this because Acell isn't the only one working with this medicine. There must be hundred's of scientists working on this everyday because of the potential of this becoming a billion dollar industrie.

Here is a exellent explanation of scaffolds and stemcells.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=6BpUvaz3Rgg
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=a1CNotI7b60

[alonso]

you can comunicate with the stephen badylak lab,
jmurphy@pitt.edu
badylaks@upmc.edu
stephen Badylak lab:

Contact Information:

Phone: 412-624-5253
Fax: 412-624-5256
Email: runyonjl@upmc.edu

Please contact us with questions about injury/disease
We invite you to have a look around our website to find out more about our laboratory and the research that Dr. Badylak and his colleagues are conducting. If you are interested in being a candidate for one of our clinical trials.
We have a highly experienced and professional staff that will quickly help determine if the regenerative medicine approach at the McGowan Institute may be of benefit to you.
Please direct any inquiries or publications requests to:
Jocelyn Runyon, runyonjl@upmc.edu
Include the following information in your email:

• A brief description of your injury or interest.
• Date of the injury or diagnosis.
• A brief description of the medical care that you have received.
• If you have a digital image you would like to include, you are welcome to attach to your email. If not, your description will be enough.
• Don’t forget to include your contact information!

You can expect to receive an email response which includes additional information regarding our institute, the use of regenerative medicine for specific problems, and the contact information of one of our physicians or scientists (if treatment is recommended).
Thank you for your interest in the McGowan Institute for Regenerative Medicine!
Stephen Badylak, DVM, PhD, MD

[alonso]

I feel that my scars are driving me crazy
how can I upload a PDF?

Edited by alonso, 01 May 2012 - 06:39 AM.