Scarless Healing

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Guys, keep it civil. Posts that break the rules will be edited or deleted.

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Acne Survivor! The Acne.Org Regimen brought a 24-year battle with acne into remission (2008). Acne resolved on its own about a year later and no longer need treatment. Been acne-free for 6 years (and counting!). Still dealing with a few red marks, combination oily/dry skin, enlarged pores, some minor ice pick scars. Returned to Acne.Org in 2014 to provide Regimen assistance and support to my son...and anyone else! :)

"I can do all things through Him who gives me the strength." Philippians 4:13

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What is it? I don't completely understand medical papers...

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/org.24945

"Excitingly, the regenerated skin shows a structure extremely similar to that of normal skin with significant scar inhibition, where collagen bundles distribute in multiple planes with a complex architecture of 3-D woven reticular array."

That's interesting. But I think it just means that people are finding out interesting things and are making progress. It's not anything you should interpret as an indication that this treatment will be available in the near future.

Edited by Lapis lazuli

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If I find something that can restore my skin I'll do it myself, no matter what. But I didn't understand what it is and how it works...

Edited by Roach25

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Lapiz, some article predicted that scar free healing woulf be achieved by 2030s, its not that far and still can be enjoyed at our youth

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Reference?

Dammit, it's so far. I'm young and I wanna live now. Climb the ladder, blooze, and fuck naughty girls.

I got a plan how to fix my face. I have found a surgeon. I'm gonna visit him soon with the papers I have.

Edited by Roach25

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Reference?

Dammit, it's so far. I'm young and I wanna live now. Climb the ladder, blooze, and fuck naughty girls.

I got a plan how to fix my face. I have found a surgeon. I'm gonna visit him soon with the papers I have.

we are here for you roach

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If I find something that can restore my skin I'll do it myself, no matter what. But I didn't understand what it is and how it works...

I don't understand exactly how it works either but RNA I've heard of before. There was a company which had a treatment in development a few years back which used that. I don't think it ever went on the market/became available.

Have you ever heard of OTR3? It's got a treatment on the market called Cacipliq20.

http://www.otr3.com/index.php/en/products/cacipliq20

It uses the approach of keeping the extracellular matrix intact, if I have understood correctly. To me that is one of the most interesting treatments which have come out of all the regenerative medicine research so far. It speeds up healing. So in the case of small scars it might make a substantial improvement.

But before any treatment is considered, I think you really have to ask yourself if you are really unable to get past your acne scarring. Often as time goes by people learn to live with things. You might at one point in your life look back on today and think "Why did I get so upset?".

Dammit, it's so far. I'm young and I wanna live now. Climb the ladder, blooze, and fuck naughty girls.

Acne scarring isn't a turnoff for girls. I've seen enough to know this for sure. I understand that having scarring makes one think negatively but if you were to stop thinking like that and just went out there you'd be surprised at how many women don't care that you have scarring. Ok? So stop worrying about that.

Here's that product that I think uses RNA:

http://www.sirnaomics.com/_d272090839.htm

I remembered just now sort of what it was called. Anyway, the product's name is Cutasil and it's been known about for some time. I don't think it's available yet though.

From the Sirnaomics website:

There are 41.8 million surgical procedures to the skin each year in Europe and 70 million procedures annually in the United States involving wounds, which could benefit from a drug that improves the appearance of the scar. Currently there are no related pharmaceuticals available in the market either in the US or Europe. Sirnaomics plans to be the first internationally to launch a marketed siRNA pharmaceutical drug for the reduction of scarring. What is needed for this space is a product that can accelerate the rate of wound closure while reducing the scar that typically forms in adult skin and which decreases the strength of the repair.

Sirnaomics has demonstrated accelerated wound closure with a topically applied siRNA mixture that results in wound repair and a return of normal skin morphology (without a scar and with return of follicles).

This product will have utility in treatment of wounds incurred on the battlefield, wounds from burns, or wounds from surgical intervention and may have utility in treatment of diabetic wounds – many of which require limb amputation as a cure. This product can be positioned within the armed forces for battlefield medical use, within hospitals for traumatic wounds and eventually into clinics and plastic surgery offices to improve healing in elective surgery. The candidate siRNA drug (Cutasil®) targeting both TGFβ1 and Cox-2 and packaged in HK polymer nanoparticles has been tested in mouse and swine skin excision wound models and demonstrated remarkable therapeutic benefit superior to the existing standard treatment. STP705 represents the First-in-Class drug with clear mechanism of action. It accelerates wound closure, minimizes scar formation, and decreases pain with anti-fungi activity.

I'd say the statement I bolded is a bold one. :P

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081112055859AAZTEM7

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I just read the entire script... so I'm assuming that they did not have complete regeneration for the porcine models like they did with the mice? :(

Quoting word for word, what has been confirmed or debunked by the paper?

Confirmed:

The paper shows and demonstrates technical regenerative mechanisms:

“Here, we demonstrate vulnerary efficacy and accelerated healing mechanism of dextran-based hydrogel in third-degree porcine burn model. The model was optimized to allow examination of the hydrogel treatment for clinical translation and its regenerative response mechanisms.”

Some technical findings as referenced in the paper:

By day 14 100% of the hydrogel wounds were closed; and only 14% to 50% of the controls were closed.

“Examining gross wound closure, we found that all hydrogel treated wounds appeared closed while just 14% of dressing-only treated wounds and none of the dressing retreated wounds were closed (Fig. 3aii), resulting in wound gap in the dressing-only treated wounds and larger gap in the dressing retreated”

The hydrogel treated wound had a rete density similar to healthy skin, the controls did not.

“We found that dressing-only treated wounds had a very low rete percentage and density, while hydrogel treated and retreated wounds exhibited high rete percentage and rete density. Consistent with a superior regenerative response, hydrogel treated wounds have rete density similar to healthy skin (Fig. 3di-ii)”.

Elastin was found in the hydrogel treated wounds but not in the controls.

“Moreover, we found that elastic fibers were present in the periphery of hydrogel-treated wounds but were significantly reduced in dressing treated wounds (Fig. 5bi-ii, 5cii), suggesting that hydrogel treated wounds were at a more advanced stage of remodeling compared to dressing treated wounds at the same time.”

“In addition, elastin fibers, which is usually poorly restored in scars (Lamme et al., 1996), were deposited in higher density in hydrogel treated wounds. Together with collagen, the regeneration of elastin provides favorable fiber frameworks for the later phase of wound healing (Eming et al., 2007).”

Nerve regrowth occurred inside the central section of hydrogel treated wounds but not in the control.

“Here, neuronal marker protein gene product 9.5 shows that while both wound types have nerve fibers present at the edges of the wounds, peripheral nerve ingrowth to the central portion of the wounds was observed only in the hydrogel-treated wounds but not in the dressing-treated wounds (Fig. 5e).”

“We found that dextran hydrogel treatment promoted nerve ingrowth into the regenerated skin with the nerve fibers presents close to the center of the wound on day 40. In contrast, we were unable to locate nerve fiber in the dressing treated wounds.”

What has been debunked by the paper?

Absolutely nothing has been defined and then debunked in the paper, suggesting there has been here, is hyperbole. The paper is an examination and comparison of technical regenerative responses between the hydrogel and controls. In fact if you look at the gemstne facebook page they explain the are in the process of organising human trials.

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they did't get complete regeneration in pigs, maybe with further tuning. But with the original hydrogel no.

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It has been 8 years since this topic started and we are no closer to a cure for scarring than we were in 2007. A lot of very intellegent posts have been posted by really smart people. it might take years before something is found to undo years of evolution by the human body.Like everyone else i wish they would find a product that would get rid of scarring but i don't see it in our lifetime.Accutane came out 35 years ago and except for testosterone blockers their hasn't been anything to prevent acne in the first place. I feel for everybody here but i hope i am wrong but i just done see it in our lifetimes.

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Seabs, are you saying that they had the same amount of regeneration in the porcine models as they did with the mice?

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Seabs, are you saying that they had the same amount of regeneration in the porcine models as they did with the mice?

CollegeKidd, what I'm saying is it is a technical comparison between the hydrogel and a control, and it has not defined and then debuned anything from previous papers in the paper. Therefore for anyone to behave like it has is almost like a neurotic paranoia. On that same information you could also draw many other conclusions using the same logic.

Edited by seabs135
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I don't understand exactly how it works either but RNA I've heard of before. There was a company which had a treatment in development a few years back which used that. I don't think it ever went on the market/became available.

Have you ever heard of OTR3? It's got a treatment on the market called Cacipliq20.

http://www.otr3.com/index.php/en/products/cacipliq20

It uses the approach of keeping the extracellular matrix intact, if I have understood correctly. To me that is one of the most interesting treatments which have come out of all the regenerative medicine research so far. It speeds up healing. So in the case of small scars it might make a substantial improvement.

It is interesting. Do I need to excise the scar?

But before any treatment is considered, I think you really have to ask yourself if you are really unable to get past your acne scarring. Often as time goes by people learn to live with things. You might at one point in your life look back on today and think "Why did I get so upset?".

I'm talented, I got many good skills, I have a goal, but I'm ugly.... All around me are smooth faces. It really gets me down. I can't find the words to explain it. It is a serious challenge for my English. Just believe me.

For girls part, I know it. Even with acne I was an attractive guy. But now I wanna climb the ladder. It's a different society. I'm like the black sheep there.

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Cacipliq20 only has an effect during the healing process. So yes, you would have to excise the scar.

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Checking my scars under the sun is just the same as being naked

So destroying, collapsing

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Cacipliq20 only has an effect during the healing process. So yes, you would have to excise the scar.

Too bad I can't get this. I'd give it a shot.

Even if the wound will heal with partly scar tissue it can look great. The main thing that it will be flat and skin colored. Many scars look like normal tissue, but they are lower.

BTW, almost all of my scars have follicles and normal color. Even the hypertrophic ones. What does it mean? Is it partly scarring?

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Cacipliq20 only has an effect during the healing process. So yes, you would have to excise the scar.

Too bad I can't get this. I'd give it a shot.

Even if the wound will heal with partly scar tissue it can look great. The main thing that it will be flat and skin colored. Many scars look like normal tissue, but they are lower.

BTW, almost all of my scars have follicles and normal color. Even the hypertrophic ones. What does it mean? Is it partly scarring?

I was told years ago that I could talk to a plastic surgeon in Rotterdam who was able to excise a scar and let it heal with the Cacipliq20 applied. I never ended up doing that as after my laser treatments I felt good enough about myself. Why not make an appointment at your local hospital in Kazakhstan and talk to a dermatologist about Cacipliq20?

Anyways, I don't know the answer to your question. I'm just a guy on a forum not a doctor. :P

Edited by Lapis lazuli

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Because our dermatology is a crap full. They don't even treat scars. Cosmetologists treat scars, but they are not doctors. I found a surgeon who can help me. When I give him the hydrogels studies I will tell him about Cacipliq20. Also I'm gonna give him some copper peptides studies. They also show good regeneration.

Copper Ceuticals like those studied by Maibach et al. are opening an approach to scarless or nearly-scarless healing of surgical incisions. GHK-Cu markedly reduces scarring after surgery if injected (an aqueous solution of 1 mg/ml) down the incision line. However, the second generation copper peptides appear to be superior for such uses.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwZi6M9K30AqS3BvM215TlpFYjQ/view?usp=sharing

Another bold one :)

What if inject this solution around a wound that has covered by hydrogel. If it doesn't work by itself, so maybe other stuff will make some difference. I just try to find an integrated approach. If single things don't work, maybe these things all together can give me complete regeneration.

Edited by Roach25
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Seabs135, i wanna know your opinion if you dont mind

Do you think acne scars could be excised with different depth in comparison with burn (full thickness)?

Or

Acne scars or not, you will actually have to do full thickness excision?

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Lapiz, some article predicted that scar free healing woulf be achieved by 2030s, its not that far and still can be enjoyed at our youth

Youth? If you're 18-20 you would be 35 at least then. how is that young lol

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Seabs135, i wanna know your opinion if you dont mind

Do you think acne scars could be excised with different depth in comparison with burn (full thickness)?

Or

Acne scars or not, you will actually have to do full thickness excision?

Skin thickness is different thickness throughout your body, ranging from 1mm to 3mm. Also how can a surgeon accurately judge if your scars are 0.5mm in depth or 0.7mm in depth and so on?

Anyway, this is a boring answer, but to me if something has scientifically proven it can get complete regeneration; then you should do the treatment. Even if that meant a full thickness wound...

Edited by seabs135

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Lapiz, some article predicted that scar free healing woulf be achieved by 2030s, its not that far and still can be enjoyed at our youth

Youth? If you're 18-20 you would be 35 at least then. how is that young lol

Thirty five is young in my opinion. I'm thirty four. :) So I'll be fifty years old in 2030 which isn't old either in my mind. Also, many women like older men. :P

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Take a look. All images in the internet show that scars are basing in the dermal layer. Got it? There's no reason to excise full-thikness. Maybe only in rare cases. Just cut the fuck out the dermal layer and get your complete regeneration :P

vid_rubtca007.jpg

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vid_rubtca003.jpg

Also, many women like older men. :P

LOL :D there's something in that :)

Edited by Roach25

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