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Why are you a vegan or vegetarian?

vegan vegetarian

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#41 notadoctor

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE(alternativista @ May 5 2007, 09:27 AM) View Post
QUOTE(notadoctor @ May 4 2007, 07:01 PM) View Post
QUOTE(TheBaron @ May 4 2007, 06:26 PM) View Post
if your okay with eating jacked up, hormone infested MUSCLES, which I no longer believe even deserve the term animal because of the screwed up actions of modern mass commercial murder, then so be it. I find its sad that a human race as intelligent as ours, understanding that all mammals are capable of feeling every emotion that we as humans do, pumps these animals full of growth hormones until they're immobile slabs of meat. If your okay with commercial murder then go for it! boogie.gif


Go back and read the rest of the thread, especially the first post, I am not going to repeat myself and waste time.


Well, you wasted time by starting this thread in the first place since you obviously aren't actually interested in anyone's reasons. You just want to argue about them.

And regarding your first post, just because people support eating meat because of cruelty and doesn't mean they support the giant corporate farms shredding field mice harvesting grain too. That's a ridiculous argument. And cotton harvesters do it too, but I don't think we can stop wearing clothes. Besides, half of that grain goes to animal feed. Iowa has to import 90% of people food from other states.

Your argument does not negate the ethical reasoning for vegetarianism. And the truth is, almost all aspects of our agriculture in the U.S. today are pretty horrible.


I understand that some people on this board may not speak english as a first language so I am not trying to make fun of you, but I really can not understand a lot of what you said.
This thread is just turning stupid, because it became an argument.

The author of "The Omnivore's Dilemma" that I quoted in the first post, was saying that really eating less farm animals does not do less harm to animals in general, and it may be worse for other animals if more people are avoiding meat. I am not going to argue with you about it anymore, and can tell that you are not really thinking about why you do what you do, or if it really is morally correct. You feel threatened and are attacking because you refuse to really consider why you avoid meat, and if it is really doing good.

I don't even necessarily think that being a vegetarian is wrong, but I think that a lot of people do it for the wrong reasons.

As to what Ell- said about organic free range meat being too expensive, it really is not if you buy at farmer's markets or straight from farmers. If that is not an option for you, then I guess you have to consider what you feel is best for you.

I am done posting on this thread from here on out, so don't look for a reply if you ask me a question.

#42 cjb

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 11:24 AM

The "it's too expensive" argument doesn't hold up to me. It's about priorities. Besides, a box of cereal costs what these days? -about $4? For less than $5, I can get enough organic chicken to feed me for 2-3 meals. A dozen free-range organic eggs costs me about $3. I know that's more than non-organic eggs, but it's less than the cereal; it probably gives you more meals for your money, and definitely gives you more nutrition.

I don't make a lot of money. I'm a student and prior to that, I worked for close to minimum wage. I still manage to eat mostly organic.

#43 veggie girl

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 01:40 PM

I am a long time Vegetarian, who is contemplating going Vegan.
First and foremost I adore animals and simply do not want to eat them, I find it gross and it never tasted good to me. All my life I rarely ate much meat, even though I was raised by a meat eating family of hunters. I saw what it is to kill, skin, and process meat. eusa_sick.gif
I hate animal cruelty in any form, I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment, I feel better physically and ethically, and a meat-free diet simply tastes better. I'm consuming less chemicals & hormones, and I don't have to worry about animal borne disease, such as avian flu or mad cow disease. An average meal of beans & veggies is cheaper than meat. In my opinion, it is unnecessary to eat animals. Lastly, I do not want to support companies that treat their workers and animals like crap.

#44 ayla

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:48 PM

I'm neither vegan or vegetarian, though I was a strict vegetarian from 13-18. I do not eat much meat though, maybe every 3 weeks or so. I do not care for the taste, and I find it disgusting.

I don't find the eating of animals disgusting, I find the way we raise without regard for their LIFE and the manner in which we slaughter them to be disgusting. Take apple blossems sig for example. That is so thoroughly fucking sick. Read the book fast food nation for more information on how you meat is 'produced.'

I will gladly eat what I have hunted or caught myself, or by my family. I think every living thing on this planet has a soul, and we need to be thankful everytime we use it for our own purposes. The old adage applies here as well - waste not, want not. If you are going to kill something for your use, do it humanely, and don't waste a single bit.

In general, I think we NEED to eat animals, if no one did, there would be an over population that would and HAS caused animals to starve for lack of food, and worse - eat each other. I think we all recall mad cow disease.

#45 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 06:09 PM

Well, its too bad all of us can't band together and publically tell the meat company that we think the way they treat animals before slaughter (and definitely during slaughter) is insanely disgusting and inhumane (I think everyone can agree on that point).

#46 cjb

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Apple_Blossem @ May 5 2007, 05:09 PM) View Post
Well, its too bad all of us can't band together and publically tell the meat company that we think the way they treat animals before slaughter (and definitely during slaughter) is insanely disgusting and inhumane (I think everyone can agree on that point).


We can. The thing that speaks to them most is money. Vote with your wallet. Buy free-range meat.

#47 cjb

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 06:21 PM

QUOTE(veggie girl @ May 5 2007, 12:40 PM) View Post
I am a long time Vegetarian, who is contemplating going Vegan.
First and foremost I adore animals and simply do not want to eat them, I find it gross and it never tasted good to me. All my life I rarely ate much meat, even though I was raised by a meat eating family of hunters. I saw what it is to kill, skin, and process meat. eusa_sick.gif
I hate animal cruelty in any form, I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment, I feel better physically and ethically, and a meat-free diet simply tastes better. I'm consuming less chemicals & hormones, and I don't have to worry about animal borne disease, such as avian flu or mad cow disease. An average meal of beans & veggies is cheaper than meat. In my opinion, it is unnecessary to eat animals. Lastly, I do not want to support companies that treat their workers and animals like crap.


That was pretty much exactly my stance when I was a vegetarian/vegan. It just didn't hold up anymore after my health began to suffer and I developed acne.

#48 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:01 AM

CJB -- This last year my acne became worse and I dropped out of school because I had noooo energy. I could tell I was missing some major nutrients. I did think at one time, "Do you think its possible that a vegetarian diet has caused me to be like this?" tongue.gif I went in and had many tests done -- they found I had been running on 0 minerals and other major nutrients for quite awhile. They put me on 10 high quality vitamin supplements, but tests showed my body would not absorb them.

Finally, I had an allergy test done and they found that I was sensitive to wheat (and some other foods). They explained to me that food sensitivities made it so our bodies would not absorb certain nutrients (they had me taking hugeeee amounts of vitamins). I've been off wheat 3 weeks now, and there is a major difference. My acne has been reduced by 70% and I have regained my energy and dramatically stopped being moody.

They told me that food sensitivities change throughout our lives because our bodies change, and that we should get tested for them at different periods in our lives (I'm assuming every 15ish years?)

I hope this helps smile.gif

PS. Interestingly, they did notice that when I had 0 minerals in my system and other nutrients, that my Amino Acids were "wow, better than most peoples!" This came from the same doctor who, a few weeks before, told me that I should eat meat because my amino acids would be off balance. tongue.gif I have been a vegan for two years.

#49 cjb

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 11:06 AM

AB: I had tests done as well. I was severely anemic, my cholesterol was too low, and I had intestinal dysbiosis from eating too many carbs. BTW. my carb sources were rice, quinoa, oats etc; not doughnuts and pasta. I had already eliminated wheat and sugar a year or so before I had any testing done. It helped some, but didn't clear me.

The most logical thing to do to was to eat low-carb (candida-style diet) to starve the overgrowth of klebsiella in my digestive tract - since it feeds on starch, and to add more iron to my diet. I first tried to remedy all this while staying vegetarian. I did bowel cleansing; fiber shakes, colonics, probiotics, tried to eat a low-carb veggie diet (quinoa and sweet potatoes only for carbs), took iron pills and blackstrap molasses + ate more black bean, beets, spinach, etc. I also added eggs to my diet. When none of this worked, I added fish once a week. After about six months of this, I finally had to admit to myself that after ten years of being vegetarian and thinking it was healthier for me, it no longer was. I eliminated all grains and started eating meat. My acne stopped in its tracks. My chronically bloated stomach became flat. My severe mentrual cramps got better. The next blood test showed I was no longer anemic. Frankly, it was worth giving up vegetarianism to fix all those things, but it's not like it was easy to admit to myself that I was being stubborn about staying veggie and my health was suffering for it.

It's been about 9 months since I started eating that way, and I'm still clear. Also, I can tell my digestive system has healed - at least to some extent, because I can actually eat a piece of bread now and not break out.

#50 Z1ggy

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 11:44 AM

I am the most acute form of vegan: fruitarian. For the heck of it.

Its not really about the moral issues; one could go around and around arguing with people and himself. I simple eat what is readily given by nature for me to eat.

I am also an extremely avid nutritionist. I have gone around and around analysing the nutrient profile of so many foods, and have capped off my nutrition needs with the exception of two vitamins and one mineral. Cause im crazy. biggrin.gif Except for those three, all micro and macro nutrient needs are met or exceeded.

#51 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:36 PM

Wow, I've never met a Fruititarian before.
How long have you been one?

#52 Z1ggy

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:00 PM

about 10 months. biggrin.gif

#53 jenn221

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE(veggie girl @ May 5 2007, 02:40 PM) View Post
I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment


could you elaborate on this one? I didn't know that not eating meat is better for the environment.....

#54 Legend

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE(jenn221 @ May 6 2007, 07:13 PM) View Post
QUOTE(veggie girl @ May 5 2007, 02:40 PM) View Post
I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment


could you elaborate on this one? I didn't know that not eating meat is better for the environment.....


Switching to nuclear power would be far more effective at improving the environment, without sacrificing health (selection of high quality proteins).

#55 Z1ggy

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE(jenn221 @ May 6 2007, 07:13 PM) View Post
QUOTE(veggie girl @ May 5 2007, 02:40 PM) View Post
I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment


could you elaborate on this one? I didn't know that not eating meat is better for the environment.....


stock yards and giant ranches produce huge amounts of carbon dioxide and methane, create tons of waste, and use a wide arsenal of dangerous chemicals to maintain sanitation and promote output.

a better term for veggie girl to have used would be to have said a meat free organic diet is better for the environment because organic farms refrain from using chemicals and fertilizers that are bad for the environment. it could be argued that some plants (i.e. rice) are bad to mass-raise as well, but overall it would be better to fill acreage with plants than animals.

#56 notadoctor

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE(Z1ggy @ May 6 2007, 07:39 PM) View Post
QUOTE(jenn221 @ May 6 2007, 07:13 PM) View Post
QUOTE(veggie girl @ May 5 2007, 02:40 PM) View Post
I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment


could you elaborate on this one? I didn't know that not eating meat is better for the environment.....


stock yards and giant ranches produce huge amounts of carbon dioxide and methane, create tons of waste, and use a wide arsenal of dangerous chemicals to maintain sanitation and promote output.

a better term for veggie girl to have used would be to have said a meat free organic diet is better for the environment because organic farms refrain from using chemicals and fertilizers that are bad for the environment. it could be argued that some plants (i.e. rice) are bad to mass-raise as well, but overall it would be better to fill acreage with plants than animals.


I know I said I would never post, but don't post about stuff that you don't know about. Some of this is untrue. Raising cattle correctly, the way nature intended would actually boost grass growth in an area and many other plants could be grown using the cow's poop as fertilizer. Seriously, if you are this interested in how our food system works read the Omnivore's Dilemma, the same book that I quoted on the first post. It is probably the most interesting book I have ever read. I am telling especially you Z1ggy this, because you seem to be interested in it and I think you would enjoy reading it.

Now, let's just stop arguing about this and let this thread die, it is getting sad, and I am seriously not going to post on this thread anymore no matter how wrong any information is.


#57 ayla

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:02 PM

QUOTE(notadoctor @ May 6 2007, 09:02 PM) View Post
I know I said I would never post, but don't post about stuff that you don't know about. Some of this is untrue. Raising cattle correctly, the way nature intended would actually boost grass growth in an area and many other plants could be grown using the cow's poop as fertilizer. Seriously, if you are this interested in how our food system works read the Omnivore's Dilemma, the same book that I quoted on the first post. It is probably the most interesting book I have ever read. I am telling especially you Z1ggy this, because you seem to be interested in it and I think you would enjoy reading it.

Now, let's just stop arguing about this and let this thread die, it is getting sad, and I am seriously not going to post on this thread anymore no matter how wrong any information is.


True. But that's not how we're doing it, is it? Therefore, when Veggie Girl says
QUOTE(veggie girl)
I believe a meat-free diet is better for the environment
, and Z1ggy elaborates with
QUOTE(Z1ggy)
a meat free organic diet is better for the environment because organic farms refrain from using chemicals and fertilizers that are bad for the environment. it could be argued that some plants (i.e. rice) are bad to mass-raise as well, but overall it would be better to fill acreage with plants than animals.
- it is true.

I don't think I've read any ignorant posts in this thread, well, one exception. razz.gif The vast majority of us understand exactly the ramifications of the consumption of meat from unethical, un-natural, and socially irresponsible mass farming. This is why we fail to follow this particular misguided herd.

#58 Z1ggy

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE(notadoctor @ May 6 2007, 09:02 PM) View Post
I know I said I would never post, but don't post about stuff that you don't know about. Some of this is untrue. Raising cattle correctly, the way nature intended would actually boost grass growth in an area and many other plants could be grown using the cow's poop as fertilizer. Seriously, if you are this interested in how our food system works read the Omnivore's Dilemma, the same book that I quoted on the first post. It is probably the most interesting book I have ever read. I am telling especially you Z1ggy this, because you seem to be interested in it and I think you would enjoy reading it.

Now, let's just stop arguing about this and let this thread die, it is getting sad, and I am seriously not going to post on this thread anymore no matter how wrong any information is.


The problem is that cattle isn't raised correctly. The small local farms that do raise cattle as they should be raised are little in the scheme of things compared to the giant livestock corperations.

Ideally farms need to decentralize spread out between urban districts so that food is raised and grown more efficiently with less travel time, but geography, and money greed keeps this from happening....

But yeah, not more arguing.

Thanks for the book referral. It sounds interesting and i'll see if I can find a copy of it. smile.gif

#59 jenn221

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE(Z1ggy @ May 6 2007, 07:39 PM) View Post
stock yards and giant ranches produce huge amounts of carbon dioxide and methane, create tons of waste, and use a wide arsenal of dangerous chemicals to maintain sanitation and promote output.

a better term for veggie girl to have used would be to have said a meat free organic diet is better for the environment because organic farms refrain from using chemicals and fertilizers that are bad for the environment. it could be argued that some plants (i.e. rice) are bad to mass-raise as well, but overall it would be better to fill acreage with plants than animals.


so i'm not trying to beat a dead horse (pun not intended) but let's say people suddenly realize that filling acerage with plants rather than animals for food is better for the environment- what do we do, then, with all the cows, pigs, chickens, etc?

#60 Z1ggy

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:35 PM

QUOTE(jenn221 @ May 6 2007, 10:21 PM) View Post
so i'm not trying to beat a dead horse (pun not intended) but let's say people suddenly realize that filling acerage with plants rather than animals for food is better for the environment- what do we do, then, with all the cows, pigs, chickens, etc?


are we even being reasonable anymore?

notadoctor is right. this thread needs to end.



if the entire human population were to switch to that then the infrastructure would be set already. farms dont instantly grow trees in a day. im not gonna keep going.......