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Why are you a vegan or vegetarian?

vegan vegetarian

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#241 alternativista

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE (celt130 @ Apr 2 2011, 06:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Animals are fed with farm-leftovers,breweries left-overs and biofuel left-overs. The grain that is used to feed animals is hardly used in human consumption,they are specially grown to feed animals like grain Triticale,Oats,Barley. So the "grain to feed the world" is wrong".


The fields are being used to grow grains for animals as opposed to for human consumption. Or better yet, to grow vegetables for human consumption. The animals shouldn't even be eating grains in any significant amount. And perhaps what you say about how animals are fed is true worldwide, but here we grow low yield per acre, subsidized corn and use it for everything, but especially animal feed. go to a feed store and look at the feed. It's full of corn.

And B12 is made by bacteria. Something we once got more of. In addition a certain amount is made by the bacteria in our systems. Something we possibly had enough of to supply our B12 before our crappy diets and antibiotics. Especially when you consider that folate performs most of the functions of B12, so adequate sources of folate reduce the need for B12.

Also while chimps are omnivores and capable of hunting, they aren't very successful at it. Even those who've watched them poke sleeping bush babies with sharpened sticks have observed they aren't even good at that. Their diet is plant based.

This thread has become a whole lot of posts citing propaganda on both sides. Propaganda that is never quite correct. Humans are omnivores, but we and the planet would be so much better off if people ate a hell of a lot less meat so the massive corporate industrial farms would collapse and we could go back to small local farm sources that raise livestock in fields where they belong. Hopefully the higher fuel prices in a society that has for so long refused to find or adapt to alternatives is already helping this trend along.

Edited by alternativista, 02 April 2011 - 09:02 AM.


#242 Dotty1

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE (joris ヘ(^_^ヘ)(ノamused.gif)ノ @ Apr 2 2011, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
celt some very good points, although next time you might want to put them in one post.

Your link about world hunger is not working. But its indeed poverty and not not having enough food.

Wouldnt the biggest problem for child growth be the DHA/EPA and not the vitamin B12?


Thats what it would seem like if it were really hard to get DHA on a vegan diet, but all the health organizations say that the vegan diet lacks b12 and never mention DHA.

B12 stays in the body for three years while a DHA deficiency would most likely show itself much sooner (I'm thinking 6 weeks to several months?). So the body must be able to manufacture DHA on its own as long as it receives a normal amount of nutrients and enough EPA & AHA.



#243 joris

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:19 PM

alternate dont chimps eat a lot of insects?
QUOTE
The fields are being used to grow grains for animals as opposed to for human consumption. Or better yet, to grow vegetables for human consumption.

Ye but there is already enough food. It wont help poverty. Cutting meat is just going to get farmers out of buiseness. But also reduce emmisions. I dont know if we all ate adequate amounts of veggies (like most of us on these forums do) if there would still be enough room for meat. Especially organic meat.
I dont think the fuel prices will make that much of a difference. Although it might fill the price gap between organic and non organic. Resulting in better animal treatment...

And

@dotty as far as i know (especially on very bad vegan diets: lots of grains, almost no protein fat) babies can die. Or have very low growth. I dont know if a pretty good vegan diet has significant affects on growth. Although it might have some. But not that being 2 meters long is the best for you (and your back tongue.gif).
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3414589
Still if they dont have vitamin B supplements and probably they ate some kind of meat replacement. Which isnt healthy but might make sure of normal growth of their childeren.

ps. there are also some other studies on vegetarian diets and growth , then dont suggest any big difference. They are a bit smaller but not that much at all. They weigh a bit less. They are a bit weaker but a bit better in cardio.

Edited by joris ヘ(^_^ヘ)(ノ^_^)ノ, 02 April 2011 - 01:32 PM.