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The Goat’s Milk Regimen (Canus / ZUM + Complex 15 / Jojoba oil)

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#1 cleardream

cleardream

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 07:51 PM

This is pretty long, but hopefully the details will help. If you want to go straight to "THE SUPER-BASIC GMR ROUTINE I STARTED WITH," or "MY CURRENT REGIMEN," just scroll down a bit. smile.gif


THE BASICS:
Well, this post is a long time coming… I’ve been meaning to write it ever since I started seeing major improvements (in Nov/Dec. 2006), but as Spikeyli & Lexy know (and I think they felt the same way for themselves), I didn’t want to write it prematurely in case it was just a fluke or something. Hell, I’ve had acne since I was 16/17! (28 now) – So even though I’ve been almost entirely clear for a couple months now, I still wonder if it is a fluke. Granted, it has been “mild-to-moderate” over the years, but unbelievably persistent. I don’t know that this regimen would work for every type of acne, but I wholeheartedly feel that at the very least (and unlike certain regimens), I can’t see it making anybody’s skin *worse. Anyway, some of this will be repetition from other threads or from emails I’ve written to people... or what other people have noted too. So here goes…

For my purposes here, I’m going to call this new regimen the Goat’s Milk Regimen, since I think goat’s milk soap is the most common denominator between all of those (4 or 5 of us?) who have tried it so far. So, GMR for short. (Having said that, I think the moisturizing element / moisturizer quality is equally important in the GMR’s effectiveness.)

A little background about me:

My acne affects only in 1 general area: my chin and around my mouth. Generally the rest of my face has always been clear (so whenever I say “my skin,” I’m referring to the acne area). The acne area, on the other hand, is not normal skin by any means. In fact, I’ve said several times recently that I have the most ultra-sensitive skin of anyone I know. It has been damaged and discolored over the years by various things, including:
  • Typical amounts of sun exposure, but without regular use of SPF (until probably this past year)
  • Using harsh/drying cleansers (so many kinds, including Dial gold)
  • Not using lotions, b/c I felt (as many of us do) that one shouldn’t moisturize acne skin.
  • Picking at pimples/scabs (nasty habit!!)
  • Using various topicals, such as such as with Proactiv (benzoyl peroxide) or more recently, the DKR (wayyy too much BP for my skin)
In April 2006 I found acne.org. I started on the DKR, which lasted a month, until I was forced to stop. The massive amounts of BP (even though did everything properly, and started out with very little, comparatively!) left me with dry, irritated, red, itchy, painful skin, and even created some wrinkles where there were none previously. Sure, it started to clear up my pimples… but in addition to the abovementioned effects, the BP actually turned my skin this horrible orange-tan color! I did a ton of research, but could find nothing online about that last side-effect. But then I looked around on acne.org and found a handful of others with the same problem (one of whom was Lexy) – all of us seemed to fit the same description: ultra-sensitive, very fair skin. I had to stop the DKR.

As an alternative, I began to try various experiments I found, detailed on both acne.org and makeupalley.com. I tried aspirin masks (MUA), “the dip regimen” (acne.org, in the “Mild Acne” forum), and others… all to no avail. I tried a couple Clinique “pore minimizing” products (by then the oil & large pores were driving me crazy), including the “Instant Perfector” and the “T-zone shine control.” The former seemed to do a beautiful job… but within a short time, broke me out. The latter didn’t do much of anything; almost seemed to make me oilier. Based on some MUA reviews, I decided to go all-natural and try Kiss my Face Olive Oil Soap with Aloe Vera – which initially I loved, but later I realized was contributing to breakouts as well.

A few months later (summer ’06) my mom and I decided to finally try Bare Escentuals / Bare Minerals makeup, so I went out and bought a starter kit. As I wrote in another post yesterday, at that point my skin freaked out. Probably the 2nd-worst breakout of my life. A short while after stopping the BE, I went to an airshow that was an all-day outdoor event. Feeling that I would need the protection, I slathered on Neutrogena’s Dry Touch SPF 55 lotion. Thus ensued THE worst breakout of my entire life. The zits popped up overnight and didn’t stop coming for days. My chin was covered in clusters of them. My face (the normal skin) developed some too. I was miserable. After talking a bit with Spikeyli about our similar experiences with sensitivity, sunscreens, and lotions, I decided to drop ALL of them – in fact, I was so fed up that, aside from my “simple,” and “gentle” Purpose cleanser I dropped all skincare products entirely.

I carried on that way for several weeks… but eventually things began to get physically painful. I would experience an actual burning sensation on my chin that no cleanser or seemed to be able to help. Someone even suggested that this could be rosacea. Due to the raves on these boards about jojoba oil, I figured THERE was a “natural” product, and that I might as well try it. Well, at the time, natural schmatural… not only did the stuff burn and make my face look shiny, but it sat on top of my skin instead of absorbing, thus burning all and looking shiny all day long. AND it broke me out! I gave up on jojoba too. On one of my worst/most painful days ever, I came home from work and washed my face with Cetaphil cleanser – it burned! Rinsed that off and applied Neutrogena Oil-Free lotion “for Sensitive Skin” – burned too. Tried Cetaphil cream (in the giant tub), my favorite stuff for dry/cracked hands – this burned like crazy! Out of desperation, I grabbed my tube of Aquaphor (which is comprised of almost 1/2 Vaseline) and slathered it all over my face. I knew there’d probably be repercussions, and there were: a fresh batch of healthy little baby zits the next morning. But I didn’t care. It was the only thing that didn’t leave me almost crying in pain. After applying the Aquaphor I literally closed my eyes and broke into a grin, saying “Ahhhh” out loud; it was so nice not to feel the pain. Zits and all, I applied it again the next night.

I didn’t want any more acne products. In fact, I was sick of products. I had the most finicky, intractable, crazy skin of anyone I'd every met! Despite extraordinary amounts of oil produced on my skin's surface, the underlying problem (as evidenced by pain, itchiness, redness, etc.) was dryness. I knew that above all, what I needed was a high quality lotion. Since Spikeyli was raving about Complex 15, so I figured “If it worked for her, with her similar sensitivity, I might as well try it” (THANKS SPIKEYLI!)… so I got some online. Her theory was that the Complex 15 worked so well b/c it didn't contain extra fillers, like regular lotions. Including SPF. And she was absolutely right. The lotion was light, "fluffy," lol.... almost like a thick mousse, I'd say. What I instantly loved about it was its spreadability on my skin. I didn't need to pull or tug, and it was so quick. Then after a few days I began to really see that it was hydrating my injured, burning skin She was also recommending a goat’s milk soap, which seemed like a bit of a hassle/an expense to order online, but one day when I was in Longs I saw some goat’s milk on the shelf in front of me: Canus. It was right there (not online), and cheap! $1.29. I threw some in my basket.

THE SUPER-BASIC GMR ROUTINE I STARTED WITH (and what I recommend for people starting out):
I don’t remember now exactly which product I used first, but at some point I got into the very basic regimen of Canus Fragrance-Free soap twice per day, followed by Complex 15 lotion twice per day. I began to see my skin – and subsequently my acne – improve within a week. I was oily during the day as usual (even oilier?), but as I wasn’t wearing makeup at the time, so the oil was a side-effect I could live with. At that point I think my skin needed that simplicity badly, in order to repair the acute damage caused by BP, other products, and later, lack of products. My skin was in such bad shape that it wasn’t even able to tolerate tiny amounts of jojoba oil. (Now I can safely use 12 drops!) I actually recommend that anyone using this regimen start out with just two products (goat's milk soap + Complex 15 lotion), with the possible exception of GENTLE manual exfolation (see my regimen below) if you feel you need it. After about 4-6 weeks (though Spikeyli will tell you 8, and that sounds good to me too), if your skin is noticeably calmer and/or clearer, you can move on to experimenting with Jojoba or Grapeseed oil for moisture, and Aloe Vera Gel during the daytime, etc. Simplicity is the cornerstone of this regimen, and even more important at the beginning!

Why the GMR Works
In college I created my own major, studying health. I wrote my senior thesis on pill-popping society, and could probably go on forever about my disgust for the pharmaceutical industry. Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels between that world and the world of acne products. I have a lot of respect for Andrew Weil, M.D., who graduated from Harvard Medical School and has written numerous books on the body’s ability to heal itself given the proper nutrients. Simply put, I believe this regimen works not because it’s “fighting” acne (like some topicals), but because it gives the skin the tools to do what it seems to be struggling to do naturally. (Or in some people’s cases, what has been practically beaten out of it by harsh acne products.) I can’t say whose skin this will “work” for (in the sense that your acne is mostly gone, like mine), and whose it won’t. But evidently to me, my skin was starving for gentle cleansing and moisture. Once it got those, it was able to do its job.

In the simplest terms:
  • The goat’s milk soap contributes b/c it cleans without stripping.
  • Complex 15 / jojoba contribute because each effectively moisturizes without fillers.
So easy... yet until recently, I hadn’t found the right products to do these things. (another much-warranted "THANKS SPIKEYLIII" here! biggrin.gif)


MY CURRENT REGIMEN:

Morning:
  1. Wash with Canus Unscented/Fragrance-Free Goat’s Milk Soap. Take care not to hold face in stream of hot shower water; just splash. Rub hands together to create a good lather, then massage GENTLY into face. Don’t work on face (or any one area) longer than 20 seconds. What I’ve been doing lately is actually washing the face twice in each sitting. I find that that allows me to be less harsh (and spend less time, which is key) each time around. So, super-gentle, BRIEF massage and rinse. Then a second super-gentle, BRIEF massage and rinse. By using this method, and without rubbing hard/scrubbing, I like to make sure that each part of my face feels "squeaky clean" -- that's when I know I'm done.
  2. Immediately after shower, while skin is still wet (not totally dripping, but close! There should be visible water all over face), apply about a dime-sized amount of Fruit of the Earth Aloe Vera gel (a 2 oz. travel bottle is $1 at Target) as makeup primer. Concentrate gel slightly more in acne area. Apply in a gentle circular motion until most is absorbed.
  3. Apply Aubrey Nicole Mineral makeup. (Not to cover pimples, but for the abovementioned permanent discoloration caused by 12 years of acne, and probably from subsequent “picking.” Also, I have had adverse reactions to BP specifically, that have caused hyperpigmentation.)
Evening:
  1. Wash makeup off with Canus soap, as above. (If I used any eye makeup that day, I remove that first. I use Clinique “Take the Day off” balm.)
  2. Immediately afterward, while skin is still wet (as above), apply about 5 drops of jojoba oil to entire face. GENTLY massage over skin.

About once per week:
Exfoliate GENTLY in the shower (steam/heat helps) with Buf Puf Extra Gentle Facial Sponge



A FEW IMPORTANT NOTES ABOUT THE GMR IN GENERAL:
  1. Two key issues seem to be
    • Not overdrying the skin
    • Not overheating the skin (which would, in turn, overdry)
    I have also gone out of my way during the last few months to avoid either of the above. I used to let hot shower water splash on my face while I was shampooing my hair. Now when I wash my face in the shower, I’ll splash it on from my hands, rather than putting my face directly under the stream. (This is why I’m glad I never got super-involved with the “dip” regimen on acne.org – it accomplishes the opposite of what I’m trying to do.)
  2. “Adding ointment to dry skin is like putting oil on top of dry sand, in the desert.” – my dermatologist. I’ve heard versions of this for years, but I really like that particular metaphor – it drives the point home. The most effective way to moisturize is to apply your moisturizer on damp skin, within SECONDS of emerging from the water. This way it can absorb well, and actually more quickly. It also prevents additional touching of the face with towels or paper products. And in a regimen where gentleness is key, every little bit helps.
  3. Generally I tend to agree with Spikeyli on the SPF issue and the "brainwashing" that we have to be slathered in sunscreen from head to toe anytime we walk out the door. (Can't find her blurb on this at the moment, but I'll keep looking, and post the link here.) We both feel that the SPF thing isn't necessarily an urgent need unless you spend a significant amount of time in the sun. (Neither of us does.) For me, what I've been doing is using Aubrey Nicole powder primer (supposedly SPF 15) on my face under makeup, and a light SPF lotion around the eye area where I think it'd be most important -- IF I'll be outside in the sun. I figure for the face, what with the powder primer, mineral foundation (also "SPF 15) AND finishing powder (also with the claim of SPF 15), I should be at least minimally protected.

    Keep in mind that everyone needs about 15 minutes of sun daily for proper absorption of Vitamin D.

    But sun protection is extremely important, and I take it seriously. I wear sunglasses religiously, and if I'll be outside for a longer period in direct sunlight (longer than 15 minutes), definitely some kind of hat (you can find cool ones out there; just go hat shopping biggrin.gif). Studies show that clothing/hats are much more effective than any lotions or cosmetic sunscreens anyway.
  4. What I’m trying to accomplish with my two current “moisturizers”: the FOTE Aloe Vera Gel is proving to be an ideal makeup primer for me. As stated above, before the GMR, I was incredibly oily during the day for makeup (hourly blotting), yet badly parched for moisture. The FOTE controls my oil beautifully and helps my makeup last. In fact, I love it so much, I’ve been using it as a daytime treatment even when I don’t wear makeup. (THANKS TASH! biggrin.gif) The jojoba works great for night moisture… lets me wake up to soothed, soft skin. (THANKS GIGGLEBOX, for inspiring me to try this again, with your post!) Whatever your moisturizer, make sure to apply to dampened skin, to seal in the moisture!

    Also, what you're trying to achieve here between your morning and evening moisturizer treatments is a balance. There are so many ways to experiment with your products to do this, one of which is mixing. I've found that, depending on my skin's condition on a given day, sometimes it helps to mix my Aloe Vera Gel WITH Complex 15, to make things more hydrating. (Either on its own can be an extreme in either moisture or dryness.)

    1 thing though -- I would not use FOTE AVG twice per day. I know Tash found it overdrying/irritating, and it makes sense that it would be. I don't even really see the AVG as a moisturizer; more as a makeup primer. My nighttime moisture just seems to be adequate, so I'm able to get away with the AVG.

    It may seems obvious to say this, but just pay attention to your skin day by day, and give it the amounts/ratios of moisture that it needs. It'll tell you!

  5. I did not notice a "purging" period with this regimen; I’m not exactly sure what that would consist of. What I (and Lexy) did notice is that I began to see some “clogged” or “plugged” pores begin to surface. They appear as tiny bumps in the skin that gradually surface to the point where you can remove them. (This is going to be gross, but) They look like small oblong, hardened greenish/brownish/yellowish, sometimes whiteish or clear plugs. What I do is I try my very best NOT to pick at them… but I just leave them alone, and make sure they get thoroughly cleansed and moisturized when I’m working on my whole face. Most every one of these plugs of mine, when it is “ready,” has basically surfaced and when I’m in the shower, with the help of the heat/steam. I’ve been able to just kind of work it out of the skin with my finger(s) (Spikeyli described doing something similar). Honestly, I’d be worried about recommending this to anyone else though… because it is still sort of like picking. I’ve just been doing it for so long, I sort of have an effective method down. Lol. But another great method is to wait until RIGHT after you step out of the shower (before moisturizing), and use a mirror + high quality tweezers (Tweezerman is my very fave! biggrin.gif). Make sure you can get a good grasp of the plug, and gently pull it out. (very important: if you can’t grasp it easily, do not dig around w/the tweezers or your fingers! Wait another day or more, until – with the continued help of good cleansing/moisturizing – it surfaces naturally!)

    Two very cool things about the GMR and these "plugs" –
    • I always had them, but the GMR’s moisture seems to ease them out faster, and more effectively.
    • The GMR makes my skin so healthy that I am more likely to respect it, and LESS tempted to pick at it! (And therefore less likely to create more scarring.) This is a really gross issue, but it’s a major problem of mine.
    The plugs have decreased in frequency the further I’ve progressed into the GMR, and, I believe, with my mild sponge exfoliation (I don’t like scrubs).
WHY I LOVE CANUS FRAGRANCE-FREE GOAT'S MILK SOAP:

First of all, Canus Goat’s milk soap is totally different from any cleanser – soap or liquid – that I’ve ever used. The lather is deliciously creamy, smooth in your hands. It cleans like a dream (works great for my mineral makeup) and rinses completely (important to me, b/c I hate residue). This stuff is, to me, what Cetaphil “gentle” cleanser should’ve felt like, but didn’t. Also, in this post (scroll down slightly) I drew a few comparisons between Canus and ZUM. I feel that with sensitive skin like mine, the fewer ingredients I put on my face -- regardless of how "natural" or "good" for you they are (this includes essential oils, vitamins A, C, and E, etc.), the better. I love that I can buy Canus Unscented, and in that version, there are only 5 ingredients (click the picture in this link to see what they all do).

This page (weird, it doesn't take you straight to the page; you have to click on "Benefits" after clicking this link) on the Canus website explains a little about goat’s milk and why it’s so effective in skincare products. Canus in particular, uses fresh goat's milk, as opposed to a powdered form. This is probably another reason why I prefer it to the other goat's milk soaps I've tried, including ZUM. Since that link doesn't work so well, I've just pasted it below:

QUOTE
(from the Canus site:)
Why Goat's Milk?

Goat's milk has long been recognized as a natural skin moisturizer and rejuvenator. In North America, when someone suggests the word "milk" we instantly think of a dairy cow. In fact, more people consume goat's milk than any other milk in the world.

From a nutritional standpoint, goat's milk and cow's milk are remarkably similar. However, there are significant differences in the protein and fatty acids that are found in goat's milk. The molecular structure of the proteins and fatty acids which predominate cow's milk are much larger and longer than in goat's milk. Some individuals who are lactose intolerant and cannot handle the digestion of cow's milk are having difficulties in digesting, or breaking down, these long strands. Frequently, goat's milk is recommended for these digestive problems. It has also been suggested that goat's milk should be strongly considered as an alternative to powdered formula for nursing babies.

Goat's milk is also naturally homogenized. In the preparation of our soaps and skin care products, we only use fresh goat's milk. Many goat's milk skin care products utilize powdered milk which is stable and far easier to store. We feel that the high heat used in the dehydration process somehow changes the structure of the milk, and that using fresh milk produces a better feeling on the skin.


Canus is available on:
Amazon.com and Drugstore.com (the Drugstore.com link has a bunch of reviews), as well as some branches of Longs, CVS, and Walgreens. There are various sizes/packages available, just make sure if you buy it you buy the GREEN one, which is listed as "Sensitive" or "Unscented." (I accidentally gave Lexy a link to the regular/fragranced kind, and their fragrance is terrible! eusa_doh.gif tongue.gif)



TO SUM UP:
What my acne area was like prior to the GMR:
  • Combination – certain areas (and certain times) insatiably dry, but other areas/times isanely oily.
  • Laden with pimples, of course, which would sprout unpredictably/individually during most of the month, and as a group right before my period.
  • Red / Inflamed / frequent (sometimes constant) painful burning
  • Occasionally itchy.
  • Occasional random rashes or patches of facial eczema (not just limited to the acne area)
  • Above all, ultra crazy hypersensitive/in a constant state of irritation.
What my skin has been like for at least 3 months
  • Calm
  • Hydrated
  • Mostly pimple-free. My acne is not cured by any means, but incredibly well-managed. When I get a pimple now, it is maybe once every 1-3 weeks (hard to estimate), as opposed to 1-3 (or more) pimples a day. Each pimple is tiny, and disappears within 1-2 days, as opposed to being huge, painful, inflamed, and sometimes cystic.
  • Probably the least red it could be, given the fact that it is permanently discolored from years of mistreatment.
  • NOT constantly itchy
  • NOT constantly painful!!
Why I love this regimen
  • It’s simple
  • It’s gentle
  • It works on my acne
  • It’s cheap
  • My skin is overall healthier – I can feel it and see it.
  • I’m not in regular physical pain (burning) anymore – something no other skincare routine has done in the last several years, esp. since badly damaging my skin with BP.

Today, as in right now

At this very moment my skin seems to be suffering a small breakout (meaning 4 or 5 pimples over the last 5 days or so). I believe it’s because I've been using another goat’s milk soap this past week, which I don't like, and which contains different ingredients from Canus (several oils) (The new soap was from www.greenbushsoapworks.com).

ZUM soap

ZUM goat’s milk soap also contains oils, including essential oils. I believe the oils in the greenbush soap are what caused my small breakout this week, though ZUM has worked quite well for Spikeyli, whose acne has also cleared over the past several months too. A few others in that thread are enjoying it as well. ZUM offers many fragrances (due to the essential oils), a few of which do appeal to me, but all are quite strong, and most are too strong/overpowering for my tastes & sensitive nose. (Spikeyli does mention that you can leave them out for a while to put fragrance into towels or linen, before using them on your face.) As similar as her skin is to mine sensitivity-wise, I believe our skin reacts differently to these two soaps. Also I have had acne for about 12 years, whereas she has experienced hers for about 1 to 2 years, if I remember correctly. (Again, this is also why, unlike her, I still use makeup; I have many years of scarring/discoloration.)



Anyway, as most of us know, since everyone’s skin has individual needs, it's impossible for any one product out there to “cure” all skin. It’s all about preference/taste, and which products happens to work w/your body chemistry. I don't know if/how the GMR will work for everyone, but it seems to have worked on the handful of people who've tried it so far. The greatest thing about this regimen is that we're helping the skin do its best job, as opposed to torturing it by means of attacking the pimples on/inside it. If you think about it, it makes no sense to incapacitate the skin in order to "heal" it! It's all just about experimenting to finding the products that work for what are ALL skins' basic needs (cleanse, exfoliate, moisturize; any dermatology textbook will say as much), without those very products harming YOUR individual skin in the process. It doesn't need to cost a lot or be found in a department store, etc. etc. It just needs to work with your particular skin.

So there you have it! (Now you deserve a t-shirt that says "I survived clear.dream's GMR post!" lol.gif) Hope it helped. smile.gif

#2 almost pretty

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:40 PM

hi cleardream,
glad ur back with us. i was in eckerd earlier tonite and to my surprise i saw canus goat milk soap(they had the fragrance free) and canus goat milk lotion. they apparently just started selling them because ive never seen them in there before. the soap was 1.99 and the lotion was 3.99. i was tempted to buy the soap but what stopped me was the fact that the zum lavender is doing wonders for my dark spots and uneven skin tone. does the canus help with discoloration at all?

#3 DiscoBloodbath

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:59 PM

first off, i want to congratulate you on your skin's improvements. much kudos. smile.gif

second off, i want to say that i think i have the same skin type as both you and spikeyli; very senstive, dry, acne prone, disaster ( doubt.gif ) and this post is like music to my ears. seems like we have gone through similar experiences w/ acne. I have had acne since I was 13-14 (im 18 now). and i have tried EVERYTHING!! like you BP irritates my skin and BURNS like nothing else! this left me w/ no hope since i thought that that was the best/only way to cure acne. it also gave me wrinkles under my eyes, which after 2 years (or 3) are still there! eusa_snooty.gif i have too, felt the pain and burning brought on by skin care products. i told you already, that Cetaphil (the self-proclaimed gentlest of cleansers) turned my face red, as if i had actually steamed it (not the good steam, the bad one. the type that one gets from standing to close to fire).


i am happy to hear you are doing so well with this, because it gives me hope. even though my skin is acne free as of now, it's still in bad condition. i have very red marks, my skin is dry always, and itchy at times. i have decided that the natural approach is the way to go. i've learned from my experience is that too much face products are the devil!!! they are the cost of most of my problems, and probably the same can be said for many other people.

well, seems you just gave me a in-depth review of all the products im getting, so thank you. and thank you for sharring your experience with us. wink.gif


P.S. are you gonna send us our t-shirts, or do we have to actually go somewhere and pick them up??

#4 Mandy Ann

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:08 PM

GREAT info clear.dream biggrin.gif Im excited to give Canus a try and compare it to ZUM.. i'll probably have my mom or dad (They've got the credit card shifty.gif) order a bunch of Canus soaps online for me anyways since they are so cheap and im trying to stock up on goats milk soap lol.gif

#5 cleardream

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:08 PM

brown_skin - ooh, i never got a PM, no. thanks for the welcome... i'm glad to BE back. biggrin.gif well, to be honest, my own discoloration is so bad (covers my entire chin) that it's hard to monitor gradations in color improvements -- but i HAVE felt that overall my skintone has improved to the point where i feel less horrible about going out in public with no makeup. it's never going to be what i want it to be -- it's too damaged for that. but everyone else comments on the improvements... lol. i know i'm particularly hard on myself b/c i have such high expectations/am so picky. regarding the lavender, although the essential oils do appeal to me, i'm not super into them. for the purposes of the GMR, in my opinion, if you give the skin what it needs to do its job (which is what it's felt like i'm doing), the skin should be healthy enough that the scarring improves over time based on just that.

having said all that, i did feel i noticed an additional improvement when i added jojoba oil instead of the complex 15 (based on gigglebox's post on how it had improved her skintone).

if you're interested in making a change to your regimen, before changing moisturizers, i would suggest you give Canus a try. esp. since you've found it in person now and it's so cheap. (though within in any already-established regimen, i would make just 1 major change at a time, so you can document your results and know exactly what's responsible for improvements or problems.)

lostintranslation - omg, you crack me UP! lol.gif nice fire story... that's exactly how mine feels too. but lmao @the description...
yup, sounds like we have similar skin. let us know what you decide to get and how it goes! biggrin.gif by the way, this is the Complex 15 lotion most of us use. (I haven't tried the cream myself.)

mandeena - glad the info helped! i know, i feel like i'm constantly picking up extra bars of Canus, just to "have," "in case," or to give to my mom... lol.

#6 almost pretty

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:41 PM

ok, thanks cleardream. i think i better stick with the zum for now due to the lavender oil thats in it.plus i still have quite a few bars stocked in my closet. but at least now i know where to find the canus if i change my mind. you and i have similar skin it seems. ive had acne for 9 or 10 years. also mild to moderate but very persistent. had daily outbreaks- always had at least 2-3 bumps at all times(sometimes a lot more). so im thinking maybe the canus will be better for my skin as far as acne but it probaly wont help fade my spots. spikeyli says it took her 6 weeks to get completely clear.ive been doing the regimen for a month now so i think ill give it a few more weeks and see if ill get 100%clear right now i would say im about 85% clear. or what i might do is use the zum until my hyperpigmentation fades and then switch. im not sure at this point but i do know that i will be sticking with gmr for a long, long time to come.

#7 DiscoBloodbath

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:50 PM

QUOTE(clear.dream @ Feb 21 2007, 10:08 PM) View Post
lostintranslation - omg, you crack me UP! lol.gif nice fire story... that's exactly how mine feels too. but lmao @the description...
yup, sounds like we have similar skin. let us know what you decide to get and how it goes! biggrin.gif by the way, this is the Complex 15 lotion most of us use. (I haven't tried the cream myself.)


wink.gif lol.gif

well, i dont think they carry the lotion at CVS. their website only shows the cream. i hope they do, though, cause if not then i wont be able to try it. eusa_pray.gif eusa_pray.gif

#8 cleardream

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:55 PM

brown_skin - sounds like a plan. smile.gif i don't recall exactly how long my "99%" clarity took, but probably about that long as well. and actually i'd say 6 weeks is a good amount of time to see if any product is doing its job. also if you did switch, by the end of 6 weeks you'd "know" ZUM's specific texture, effects, etc. well enough to gauge exactly how your skin changes by replacing it. i think those details (like the 6-week thing, and like the "only ONE major product change within an established regimen" thing), are key to getting to the bottom of an acne issue.

i would describe my acne exactly the same way: mild to moderate, but persistent as hell! eusa_wall.gif i agree, the GMR is totally a keeper. spikeyli and i were talking a while back about buying stock in the Complex 15 company. all i have to say is, they better not discontinue ANY of our products! box.gif

translation - if they don't carry the lotion, you may be able to order it into the store... if not, and if you really want the lotion, there's always Amazon. not sure what else you may be interested in ordering, but a $25 minimum gets you free shipping. cool2.gif

#9 DiscoBloodbath

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE(clear.dream @ Feb 21 2007, 10:55 PM) View Post
translation - if they don't carry the lotion, you may be able to order it into the store... if not, and if you really want the lotion, there's always Amazon. not sure what else you may be interested in ordering, but a $25 minimum gets you free shipping. cool2.gif


yea i can always order some CDs or books or something. cant ever have enough wink.gif. however, before i resort to that, im gonna call around a few cvs stores in the city, maybe ill get lucky.


#10 serendipity_

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:17 PM

Great post eusa_clap.gif
i think two things i may be doing wrong are washing too hard and picking at my face
I'll make sure to be more gentle from now on and i'll try my best not to pick, although its tempting doubt.gif

#11 cleardream

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:38 PM

^ absolutely Hanna -- gentleness and NOOOO picking! all those things are key!

also, i NEVER wash my face without making sure my hands are freshly washed first.



a couple separate issues....

i'm not sure i specified above, but i really almost never use towels/paper products at all anymore on my face for actual drying. i just step out of the shower, put my hair in a towel (necessary lol.gif), reach for my AVG or moisturizer, and apply. if there's way too much water on my face, that it'd be ridiculous to start moisturizing, i'll take a kleenex and verrry gently grab a couple of the larger excess drops of water (and barely touch my face while doing so -- just soak up the biggest water droplets and leave it alone). then, with plenty of water left on my face, i moisturize. conversely, if i wait too long after emerging from the shower, and my face is mostly dry (or dry), i'll splash some lukewarm water on it before moisturizing. i try not to do this too often though, b/c i think skin has a certain warmth/softness to it right when you get out of the shower, which is perfect for moisturizing, and which really isn't duplicated again just by briefly splashing it.

and actually i find that the AVG absorbs sooo fast this way. and when dry, it feels amazingly clean/fresh/smooth, perfect for mineral makeup application.

the jojoba oil applied this way just makes me feel super clean, well-moisturized, and ready for bed. (i was up to 12 drops of jojoba, which actually worked great, but decided to lower it to 5-ish, cuz it never really absorbed completely. i think the excess would just rub off on my pillow during the night, lol. i think for me, i'd be good somewhere around 7 or 8 drops though.)

#12 DiscoBloodbath

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:35 PM

hey, if i were to get the face cream insted of the lotion, do you think it'll make a huge difference? i mean, im not good with ingredients and stuff, but they both seem to have the same except that the cream has a few others.

Lotion-
Water, Caprylic/CapricTriglyceride, Glycerin, Glyceryl Stearate, Dimethicone, PEG-50 Stearate, Squalane, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycol Stearate, Myristyl Myristate, Stearic Acid, Lecithin, C10-30 Cholesterol/Lanesterol Esters, Diazolidinyl Urea, Carbomer, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Sodium Hydroxide, BHT, Tetrasodium EDTA


Cream-
Water, Caprylic/CapricTriglyceride, Glycerin, Squalane, Glyceryl Stearate, Propylene Glycol, PEG-50 Stearate, Cetyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Glycol Stearate, Myristyl Myristate, Stearic Acid, Carbomer, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Diazolidinyl Urea, Lecithin, Sodium Hydroxide, C10-30 Cholesterol/Lanesterol Esters, BHT, Tetrasodium EDTA

#13 cleardream

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:43 AM

^ yeah, they do look quite similar. the only thing that stands out to me is the presence of the propylene glycol in the cream, which i try to avoid for things i leave on my face (as opposed to a conditioner, which you rinse out). i have heard some questionable things about that ingredient -- it's used in a lot of cosmetics/skincare items, and is "safe" according to the FDA, but is also used in formulas for anti-freeze....

but i know some people like the cream (haven't heard about it for use with the GMR specifically). like everything else, you'd probably just have to try it and see if it works. personally i can only vouch for the lotion though, cuz that's the one i've tried. tongue.gif


EDIT: since propylene glycol is almost the only difference in the two formulas, it looks to me as though it's just there as a thickening agent in the cream. i have heard people describe the cream as simply a thicker version of the lotion. which to me would theoretically defeat the purpose of the lotion, in that it works b/c there are no fillers.

#14 DiscoBloodbath

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE(clear.dream @ Feb 22 2007, 01:43 AM) View Post
^ yeah, they do look quite similar. the only thing that stands out to me is the presence of the propylene glycol in the cream, which i try to avoid for things i leave on my face (as opposed to a conditioner, which you rinse out). i have heard some questionable things about that ingredient -- it's used in a lot of cosmetics/skincare items, and is "safe" according to the FDA, but is also used in formulas for anti-freeze....

but i know some people like the cream (haven't heard about it for use with the GMR specifically). like everything else, you'd probably just have to try it and see if it works. personally i can only vouch for the lotion though, cuz that's the one i've tried. tongue.gif


EDIT: since propylene glycol is almost the only difference in the two formulas, it looks to me as though it's just there as a thickening agent in the cream. i have heard people describe the cream as simply a thicker version of the lotion. which to me would theoretically defeat the purpose of the lotion, in that it works b/c there are no fillers.



ahh i see. well thanks for all the info, im really gonna try to get my hands on the lotion then, wink.gif


#15 cleardream

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 03:03 AM

^ no problem. smile.gif


i randomly discovered that Canus is available at Whole Foods?? http://www.canusgoat...ml/maineng.html (click "Purchasing," and then click on your area - USA, Canada, Europe)



okay, now i'm officially sick of goat's milk AND Canus for one day! lol.gif

#16 faeriedust

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 08:07 AM

Do you think cerave moisturising lotion might be better? It has more and better reviews in MUA.

#17 spikeyli

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 10:56 AM

Ok, I survived reading your post clear, where's my shirt?

I agree with everything Clear says, especially the part that too much products equal bad skin. When she started this regimen, we had quite a few PM talking about what lead us to our acne hell. For me it was turning 30 with hormonal changes, and I panic and tried everything under the sun. By the time I started my regimen, my skin was so bad that I look like I had boils on my face (huge cystic pimples) and a burn victim from the redmarks. My husband finally took pity on me and did some research and came up with this regimen. Usually I ignore most things my husband tells me about beauty but since he's the Mensa geek and he went about his research using his chemistry background I figure I'd give it a shot. Within a week my active pimples cleared up, but I still had little spuds popping up, not nearly as bad as before but it's still occuring. My theory on that is my skin was so damaged that it will go through their healing cycle, many of the pimples I had after the regimen started was going to pop up anyway. But the regimen kept them from becoming painful and huge, and they went away progressively faster the longer I was on the regimen. I was 85% clear by the second week and over the next 4 weeks, I became 100% clear. My definition of 100% is no more redmarks and no more pimples popping up. Granted I still get a pimple here and there, but they never mature and now they go away in a couple of days. In fact, they're so small people can't tell I have a pimple.

I don't think the brand of the soap really matters as much as long as it's effective. I've used both Canus and ZUM, and to me they're both good soaps for this regimen. Now I know not all goat's milk soaps are made equal, but I don't think you can go wrong with these two brands. As for the fragrance with the ZUM, I'm into aromatherapy and essential oils, so I personally like the enhanced washing experience. Especially since the fragrance from the soap is naturally derived and not from chemicals like commercial soaps. But I can understand why Clear likes Canus, it's creamy and it doesn't have any scents that could irritate her nose. It's all personal preference.

Brown skin, this regimen does not prevent people from ever have break outs, I don't think there's any regimen on earth that could make that claim. What this will do is make sure you don't have it too often and make the break out periods much shorter, and the recovery quicker. I've been on it for 5-6 months now and I still get a pimple here and there. But when I get them it's not noticeable and it goes away quickly. Heck I don't even need to use makeup to cover it up when I get a pimple because they're so small. You've only been on the regimen for a month, give it time. A few months down the road you won't remember what a pimple looks like anymore. As for changing your routine, let your skin heal first before adding anything to the regimen. For Clear I think the Complex 15 is what fixed her skin, then she can progress to use jojoba oil. I just think you should stay on the regimen for at least a couple of months before making any changes. Now I can use Canus and ZUM interchangeably with no problems, but 3 months ago I wouldn't try the switch.

For all the others making supplements or substites to the regimen, just keep in mind that when you make a change you effectively change the regimen itself. So if it's not as effective or doesn't work for you at all, it may not be the regimen but what you put into it. The basis for the regimen is simple, use a moisturizing soap and an effective lotion, when you add stuff to that or replace one of the parts, the principles of the regimen is not true anymore. The whole point is to get back to basics and not load tons of products on your face.

#18 Rikke

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:13 PM


About the lotion.

Had anyone tried the Canus lotions?

#19 spikeyli

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE(Rikke @ Feb 22 2007, 01:13 PM) View Post
About the lotion.

Had anyone tried the Canus lotions?


I tried the lotion, it's good for use on the body but not the face. It has paraben in it, which will clog pores. Not to mention it does not smell too great.

#20 lu lu belle

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:48 PM

thank you so much for posting this clear.dream! i want my shirt too!!! lol.gif

i didn't have a chance to read everyone's replies, but from what i gather, i think we're all in the same boat as far as skin sensitivity. none of us can really hack the topicals or medicated cleansers, and all of them have wreaked havoc on our skin as a result. i love the simplicity of this. my dad commented on the improvement of my skin yesterday, and i was so giddy telling him about what i've been doing with the gmr. i don't know if it'll work for everyone, but i can't tell you how happy i am that my face doesn't burn anymore or get weird reddish discoloration from bp sensitivity or look like a huge oil slick when i really have dry skin. all of those other things just freaked my skin out.

i'm 24 now and started getting acne probably when i was a junior in high school albiet mild. after graduation, i used too may drying acne products on my face: clean & clear persa gel, neutrogena acne wash, salicylic acid treatments, proactiv, stridex pads, and whatever else i could get my hands on otc. i also tried differin for a short period of time but had to stop when i had some sort of weird allergic reaction that caused my throat to close up.... really awful. all this made my once mild acne into persistent moderate acne, and i was kind of at my wits end. i found acne.org at the end of 2005, but never got the results i wanted as i couldn't bear to use as much bp as dan was suggesting. you don't need to hear any more of my sob story, and i don't have enough time to go into it, but as i posted in the other thread, i've been doing the gmr for almost three weeks now (the first week i was using a topical too but have since stopped. i wish i would have never started because i think i would have seen quicker improvement.) anyway, at this time i'm nearly 100% clear and red marks are fading drastically.