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***UPDATED**** Foundations of Clear Skin

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#21 Ell-

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 04:36 PM

Amazing post Bobby McKee. Amazing. All you've written is absolute truth for me. The face washing section is excellent. Great job!

#22 partygirl1984

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE(xxbobmckeexx @ Dec 29 2006, 11:34 AM) View Post
QUOTE(partygirl1984 @ Dec 29 2006, 09:17 AM) View Post
How often are you supposed to exfoliate when you have acne? I regularly use a body brush to exfoliate my body and its quite effective, but do you think it would be good to use on the face or would it be too much?


It's your call. If it is for the body it will likely be too much.

Try the softest little brush you can find.

People who want to have clear skin should brush their skin one to two times a day, very softly and gently. Do not irritate.

Body brushing is great for health and I try to do it daily also.


Well it isn't strictly called a 'body brush' but its just a back brush i bought designed for use in the shower but I use it as a dry brush.

#23 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE(Ell- @ Dec 29 2006, 05:36 PM) View Post
Amazing post Bobby McKee. Amazing. All you've written is absolute truth for me. The face washing section is excellent. Great job!


Thanks.

I know that what we are talking about here isn't only absolute truth for you, but it should be absolute truth for everyone. We are talking about making the body healthier to improve the condition of the skin. This is really a common sense approach rather than a "put more chemicals on it" approach. I hope that everyone can learn the fundamentals of good skin care, which includes more than just soap and chemical treatments.

Later this week I will address a few things.

Liver health/flush
more specific guide to supplements

Good luck TO THE FEW THAT DO. Most people are scared of this post because it involves DOING SOMETHING! lol, I know a few of you will take some action so I am really excited for you guys to start that habits that lead to clear skin.

#24 Jeremy David

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:08 PM

I was wondering how i am supposed to approach shaving? Because that is kind of irritating so should i shave without shaving cream or what??

#25 k_chocolat

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:34 AM

should i exfoliate even when i have some active pimples?

#26 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:28 PM

QUOTE(k_chocolat @ Jan 3 2007, 08:34 AM) View Post
should i exfoliate even when i have some active pimples?


YES!

exfoliation is especially good for active pimples. This is NOT meant to be irritating though.

If you pick your skin 60-80% of the bacteria will come out, leaving the remaining bacteria trapped under the skin, this will EXTEND the amount of time that the breakout will occur.

Exfoliation helps in multiple ways, your skin will start to turnover faster. In other words, new skin will be on your face much quicker. When you have a breakout you still want to speed up this turnover. If you brush gently you should help open up the pimple which will let the b.p. treat it better also.

Remember that it is meant to be gentle.

Good luck

#27 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE(Jeremy David @ Jan 2 2007, 11:08 PM) View Post
I was wondering how i am supposed to approach shaving? Because that is kind of irritating so should i shave without shaving cream or what??


NO, don't shave without shaving cream.

You want to use shaving cream. I couldn't find a good shaving cream in any regular stores, I had to go to a health food store to get one. I also tried just shaving with cetaphil as a cream but it isn't as good.

After a lot of experimentation, I ended up with Earth Science brand "moisturizing shaving cream"

I think you have to watch out for chemicals in these products because chemicals have a possibility of irritating people's skin. Here is a link:

http://www.drugstore...science_shaving

This doesn't mean I like all their products, I ONLY use their shaving cream, haven't tried anything else of theirs.

You don't have to buy this stuff, just try to find a shaving cream that you probably can't find at a Walmart or grocery store because 99.9% of those have chemicals in them. My natural shaving cream costs like 5 bucks, which is probably only 1 dollar more than the bad stuff. Stay away from oil also, if there is any mineral oil or ANY other oil then just avoid it. This isn't to say all oils will make you break out but there is a possibility that oil will lead to it, so don't chance it.

Sensor Excel is a great choice for razors. Just like washing, your goal in shaving is to use as little chemicals as possible and to NOT irritate the skin. I wouldn't do aftershave, use a mild moisturizer if you are hurting for moisture.

#28 k_chocolat

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 05:17 PM

thanks bob!

also, i have some concerns regarding using baking soda as an exfoliant.
our skin is protected by a thin layer of skin, acid mantle and i heard that since baking soda is alkaline, if used repeatedly in face, it could damage the acid mantle and causing our skin to be more vulnerable for bacteria and infections confused.gif
what do you think about that?

have a good evening!

#29 br2011

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:20 PM

i think im gonna try this one. ive just decided to stop using topicals and this seems like a well researched logical plan.


just to make sure ive got it all heres what im planning to do

Diet: i already eat very well, but there are a few things that i could stand to cut out

Exercise: im training to be in the military, if anything i work out too much.

Cleansing: im a little confused here. what i got is that you would do an initial wash with say cetaphil cleanser, and then mix some baking soda with some more cetaphil cleanser, massage, brush, rinse? or by soap do you mean like a bar?

Supplements: i dont mind paying a few extra bucks for the multi. is this the one your talking about? http://www.drweil.co...w/u/id/ART00422
i think im also going to keep chugging ACV. a lot people claim it works. its cheap and its very good for you even if it doesnt help with acne. all ive got to lose is 2.99, and maybe some tastebuds eusa_sick.gif lol

this is sort of a leap of faith. topicals have worked fairly well for me, but never totally did the job. i stopped about a 2 weeks ago and ive broken out pretty badly. oh well, if you can find a way to be confident and comfortable with yourself with acne all over your face, you can do anything lol.gif






#30 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 04:29 PM

QUOTE(k_chocolat @ Jan 3 2007, 06:17 PM) View Post
thanks bob!

also, i have some concerns regarding using baking soda as an exfoliant.
our skin is protected by a thin layer of skin, acid mantle and i heard that since baking soda is alkaline, if used repeatedly in face, it could damage the acid mantle and causing our skin to be more vulnerable for bacteria and infections confused.gif
what do you think about that?

have a good evening!


My use of baking soda is based upon one thing: It works.

If it doesn't work for other people I'm guessing you could get creative and try other things, but I would recommend people try it for 8 weeks and then make a decision. It really isn't a drastic add, it takes NO extra time and costs 2 dollars.

I know that if we try to break things down scientifically it doesn't always make sense, yet I would also tell you that our biology is a lot more complicated than adding alkaline to acid could damage. Your stomach is also highly acidic yet the most healthy foods to eat are highly alkaline. Bad analogy, yet I also think it tells us that biology isn't simply add X to Y to get Z. There are plenty of other components.

Whose to say that the acid mantle wouldn't benefit from an occasional balancing from alkalinity? I don't know, I don't always need to have a study if I have seen something work, and work well for many others.

#31 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE(br2011 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:20 AM) View Post
i think im gonna try this one. ive just decided to stop using topicals and this seems like a well researched logical plan.


just to make sure ive got it all heres what im planning to do

Diet: i already eat very well, but there are a few things that i could stand to cut out

Exercise: im training to be in the military, if anything i work out too much.

Cleansing: im a little confused here. what i got is that you would do an initial wash with say cetaphil cleanser, and then mix some baking soda with some more cetaphil cleanser, massage, brush, rinse? or by soap do you mean like a bar?

Supplements: i dont mind paying a few extra bucks for the multi. is this the one your talking about? http://www.drweil.co...w/u/id/ART00422
i think im also going to keep chugging ACV. a lot people claim it works. its cheap and its very good for you even if it doesnt help with acne. all ive got to lose is 2.99, and maybe some tastebuds eusa_sick.gif lol

this is sort of a leap of faith. topicals have worked fairly well for me, but never totally did the job. i stopped about a 2 weeks ago and ive broken out pretty badly. oh well, if you can find a way to be confident and comfortable with yourself with acne all over your face, you can do anything lol.gif


Ok, let me address each.

1. Diet, most people think they eat well and don't. I'm not sure if you do or not. Watch salt, sugar, and white flour. A good source for diet basics is the "YOU diet" book or one of Dr. Weil's basic books.

2. Cleansing: Simple. Use the liquid soap, put an ample amount in your hands then add 1 tablespoon of baking soad. Then wash with this for 30-1min and then brush gently. Then rinse a lot.

3. I think you've found only one piece of the Dr. Weil set. You see, there are antioxidants and there are vitamins. If you see things like vitmain C and Zinc in the ingredients then you have both. You need the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. There are plenty different sets and Dr Weil has just done the most research on what are the right amounts you need, so I use his set as my dosage and then go buy them separately on allstarhealth.com (e.g. I buy 250 caps of vitamin C and 100 caps of zinc, all at his recommended dosages, much cheaper. about 1/2 cost). You can buy it anywhere.

YOU WILL DEFINITELY GET WORSE before better. I only say this to let you know. Topicals are tough on the skin, the people they work for can handle extreme chemicals and still function healthfully. You have had the topicals change your skin, so it may be 4-6 weeks before your skin returns to normal and then you will start the journey that I am talking about that will take 2-3 months. But be assured that if you put all the pieces together your skin will look phenomenal in 4 months.

CONSISTENCY will get it for you. Just like when you work out, if you missed 2 weeks you body would pay. Well, with skin it is more like missing 1 or 2 days on supplements or exfoliation or washing or BP. You have to stay consistent.

ACV may be good for your health, I haven't studied it enough to know. I see no point in doing it though. If you think it improves your health and can find suffient amount of evidence that it is beneficial then go ahead.


Good luck

#32 Danny©

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE(jamesw @ Dec 21 2006, 09:40 PM) View Post
I'd cut out the introduction, which sounds prophetic enough to cause anyone who isn't skeptical to become so. While you have some good information, you echo what other people have already said.

In my opinion, the cure is to realize that the is no cure. When you understand that no philosophically minded system of health will help you, you'll forget the bullshit and go back to the basics. No special diets -- good food, but no special diets -- and simple, non-invasive treatment, exercise, and obeying your Circadian clock. Read about the real research on PubMed and other sites. Don't let anyone sell you their snake oil, whether they're a doctor or a "healer." Since so many people have this genetic trait, it's a big industry, and there's plenty of misinformation.


I agree !
I said the same exact thing (with different words) in my post:
reductionist approach vs. holistic approach

It's the unfamous case of missing the forest for the trees, paralysis by analysis, getting stuck on variable details and missing the bigger picture, extrapolating points and forgetting the whole context

The reason also there's no cure is that we're beings of circumstances and our conditions and habits are also means of circumstances. Diet is not a fixed thing but variable according to circumstances and conditions

This doesn't apply to acne only. The whole concept of "cure" is ambiguos
Cure doesn't exist as the diseased state depends on factors that when absent promote health and when present promote disease. When doctors say that you can't cure but only control diseases like diabetes (for example) they stuck into ridicolous semantic: they're the same thing
Control is cure, there's not cure because there's only control influenced by circumstances


#33 br2011

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:54 PM

ive got a few more quick questions.

why do you suggest both borage and primrose oils? from what ive been reading borage and primrose oils seem to be the same thing. they both contain the GLA fatty acid. wouldnt taking them both be a little much?


would you recommend taking flaxseed oil in softgel form, or as a liquid?

#34 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:46 PM

QUOTE(Danny© @ Jan 4 2007, 10:12 PM) View Post
QUOTE(jamesw @ Dec 21 2006, 09:40 PM) View Post
I'd cut out the introduction, which sounds prophetic enough to cause anyone who isn't skeptical to become so. While you have some good information, you echo what other people have already said.

In my opinion, the cure is to realize that the is no cure. When you understand that no philosophically minded system of health will help you, you'll forget the bullshit and go back to the basics. No special diets -- good food, but no special diets -- and simple, non-invasive treatment, exercise, and obeying your Circadian clock. Read about the real research on PubMed and other sites. Don't let anyone sell you their snake oil, whether they're a doctor or a "healer." Since so many people have this genetic trait, it's a big industry, and there's plenty of misinformation.


I agree !
I said the same exact thing (with different words) in my post:
reductionist approach vs. holistic approach

It's the unfamous case of missing the forest for the trees, paralysis by analysis, getting stuck on variable details and missing the bigger picture, extrapolating points and forgetting the whole context

The reason also there's no cure is that we're beings of circumstances and our conditions and habits are also means of circumstances. Diet is not a fixed thing but variable according to circumstances and conditions

This doesn't apply to acne only. The whole concept of "cure" is ambiguos
Cure doesn't exist as the diseased state depends on factors that when absent promote health and when present promote disease. When doctors say that you can't cure but only control diseases like diabetes (for example) they stuck into ridicolous semantic: they're the same thing
Control is cure, there's not cure because there's only control influenced by circumstances


Hmm, I would agree that there is no cure. But then again, I sit here today with clear skin when at once I didn't have it (accutane candidate). SO, I would have to say that you can approach things in a variety of ways to get the results you want. Semantics are stupid anyway, I think the people on this thread are focused on getting the results they want in their lives.

And I think this earlier post that you replied is negative talk, "no philosophical minded health system will help." That sounds like loss of hope to me. It is true that what you focus on you create in your life, ask anyone who is successful and they will tell you that they BECAME what they thought about. Our thoughts are very important and that ISN'T some bullshit that I'm trying to talk into people.

That is REAL. Your thoughts or as you believe is what will tend to happen to you, if it is possible. AND more often then not it is within our possibilites to become what we want to. Philosophy and thinking are MAJORS in life. Just as are health and relationships, all are MAJORS.

I do agree that we need to get back to the basics, which is why I put this post together in the first place. To help those that want it.

#35 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:50 PM

QUOTE(br2011 @ Jan 4 2007, 10:54 PM) View Post
ive got a few more quick questions.

why do you suggest both borage and primrose oils? from what ive been reading borage and primrose oils seem to be the same thing. they both contain the GLA fatty acid. wouldnt taking them both be a little much?


would you recommend taking flaxseed oil in softgel form, or as a liquid?


very good. I'm glad you did some homework. The GLAs are exactly why I take these and my Borage oil is much richer (double the GLAs). I take both as an insurance policy. I weigh around 200 lbs and I want to make sure my body gets an excess of these. I'd rather OVER take the GLAs than undertake them and not get the full benefit.

I recommend flax in the liquid because it is a much higher concentration and better quality typically. The same is with most oils, if you can you are better off in liquid. To get the same amount in capsule you have to take a whole lot. I guess whichever is fine though, it's the flax oil you want, the vehicle doesn't matter.

I pay only 7 bucks for a 16 oz bottle of flax at Trader Joes. That is a hell of a deal, I can't even find that online typically. Plus no shipping charges, wow.

#36 josak

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:58 PM

bobmckee, so your saying don't use moisturizer after applying BP?

#37 acnevy

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:05 AM

i was told by a seemingly credible friend that puberty ends at age 25

do u have any remarks regarding hormones or something on those lines?



nice post, ima exercise more too, makes sense to me

#38 Danny©

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:08 AM

QUOTE(acnevy @ Jan 5 2007, 03:05 AM) View Post
i was told by a seemingly credible friend that puberty ends at age 25


It depends on the person
For some it ends at 12 years old when they get their adult body and adult size
For other it ends at 30 years old
And all in between

But puberty thought as a process with a start in teenage is a wrong concept

What we call puberty is just a stage of a never ending process starting at birth and just the final stage where less important characteristics develop. So actually puberty doesn't start when we think it starts but it is ending ... In other words the moment you get body hair, your voice pitch changes, you get taller and leaner, develp breast and so on is not THE BEGINNING OF SOMETHING but the END of a process that was already active at 3 and 5 and 8 and 10 years old

On an healthy well nourished individual the "hormonal graph" would appear kind of stable raising steadily for the whole life (and lowering steadily at some moment)
No peaks between X year and X year is supposed to occur and no sudden drop from X year (which would be bad for a person and show a lack of health) is supposed to occur

#39 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 11:18 AM

QUOTE(josak @ Jan 5 2007, 12:58 AM) View Post
bobmckee, so your saying don't use moisturizer after applying BP?


Exactly. I try to put as little on my skin as possible. I was "blessed" with oily skin. After taking a lot of healthy oils my skin was able to go without moisturizer after BP, and by the way, I always used less BP if it meant I didn't have to use moisturizer. Even if it meant going every other day on BP. Or using half a fingers length instead of 2 full fingers lengths.

The concept here is: Put as little on your face as possible and only use what is absolutely necessary on it.

Live by it.

#40 xxbobmckeexx

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE(acnevy @ Jan 5 2007, 04:05 AM) View Post
i was told by a seemingly credible friend that puberty ends at age 25

do u have any remarks regarding hormones or something on those lines?



nice post, ima exercise more too, makes sense to me


in my experience also, it wasn't true for me.

Because if I start to lose some of my disciplines then I will break out again.

You get lazy when you reach your goal. Then started eating whatever, missing washing, missing BP, missing supplements. And there you go, I started to break out again.

The nice thing about having the discipline for months is that I can cheat and then jump right back in with quicker results than someone who just started day 1, yesterday.

I didn't cheat very much at all for months.

GOOD DIET BOOK: "You diet" explains the basics very well. I now consider it the best diet basic book out there. It also explains the psychology behind consistency. Yes, when you are adapting new habits you will tend to cheat or go off of it, don't worry just keep adding new habits until you have all of them. Try one new habit at a time.

Consistency is key. Buy that book and read it, it is big and blue and all over any bookstore you go into.

After looking at your regimen, I think you are a the perfect candidate for doing stuff that works (I say this because you have to have a lot of self discipline to do all the stuff you're doing but it is LOW impact stuff, B5 just weakens your skin lessening oil production. This may reduce acne but it ALSO weakens your skin). Especially read my section on oils AND understand it isn't only how much good oil you take it, but it is the balance of good fats to bad fats. If you take 50g of good fat a day and 100g bad fats then you are NOT DOING WELL. If you take 40g of good fats and 20g of bad fats, you are doing 10 times better than the last person who actually had MORE healthy fats. Why? Because it comes down to the ratio of good to bad fats. Want to know what they are? Read any decent diet book or search online (You Diet is the best).




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