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Too much adrenaline in meat products - we are eating everyday


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#21 wrestler

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 07:29 PM

Appleblossom, nobody is arguing you that some horrific things happen in agriculture. The bottom line is whether or not something is different in the meat. Is there? How do you know that? And, it isn't that important even if there is a small amount of something. I recently read an interesting way of saying that: "there's no such thing as a toxic substance, only toxic amounts of something". By this I want to know what kinds of things are in this meat that are capable of hurting us? You can talk all day about how sad it is, until you're blue in the face. The bottom line is that it's not what you started this thread about - the topic was about contaminants in the meat due to non-organic practices. All of the scariest agriculture stories in the world amount to absolutely nothing as far as the quality of the meat, and as far as many people really care to know about.

#22 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 08:06 PM

Each of these were taken off their websites:

According to the American Cancer Society, daily consumption of red meat raises colon cancer risk by 40% and eating processed meats raises the risk by 50-60%, also causing DNA damage.

The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) says that meat and dairy cause bones to litterly desolve in the bloodstream because of the high amount of sulfur-containing amino acids in animal protein which is the leading cause of Osteoporosis. Osteoporosis is highest among the scandinavians who use dairy as a major source of calcium and within their diet and within the United States.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States (80% of people die from this disease within the US). This could be significantly lowered if the United States did not use meat and dairy as cornerstone to each and every meal. (American Heart Association)


These topics are on the news everytime I open up CNN and BBC. Everytime I open up a health magazine, these topics are being talked about. The Colon Cancer and Red Meat Risk is on CNN each week I check it tongue.gif. I sometimes assume other people know about them since the medical association is trying to bring awareness to these problems & our diet.

The sad thing is I seriously think that the sickness of the animals would affect us in the long run since we are eating them three times a day:
Breakfast sausage, bacon...
Chicken fingers, Meatballs & Spaghetti, Steak, Beef/chicken stew, beef tacos, chicken & rice, hamburgers, chicken burgers, hotdogs, bologne sandwhiches, chicken breast, BBQ chicken & beef and pork, etc ...

I know you (or other people) will probably say that most people dont eat meat 3 times a day, every day, however the majority of Americans claim they could not even do a vegetarian diet because it would be too hard to eat because there is meat in everything <--- and that is my point.

We are eating so much meat and 30% of the meat comes from sick and animals dying of cancers and tumors (or so the USDA says)-- and I think it could affect our health in the long run.

But the stupid thing is I dont have enough time to go do 8 hours of research to back this up. I'm just throwing a thought out there for other people.

However, yes, we do know for certain that the American trend of using meat as a main staple in our diet each day is causing detrimental effects in the long term.

#23 wrestler

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 10:34 AM

I don't want to argue with you, but I believe you're tap dancing around the point here. You started this thread giving an idea that the manner in which the animals are treated affect the quality of the meat. You have not delivered anything to back that up, yet you continually post and repost bad things about meat. First you talk about how non organic meat is raised poorly, without proper food/exercise/life/etc. Then, you talk about disgusting conditions of slaughter. Now, you're talking about what meat in general can do to you, which is very easily explained by teh macro/micro nutrient breakdown of a piece of meat - you still are not showing why that would be any different if the animals were treated well.

We know certain meats have lots of fat. Clearly, if you keep eating fatty thigns, you will have problems. But, your thread was not a thread about being vegetarian to be healthier (which is a whole other debate, but not what you started this as), it was about inhumane agriculture degrading the quality of the meat processed in those cruel ways.

It honestly looks like a bait and switch you've pulled, got people tagging along because you asserted inhumane agriculture/slaughter hurt the quality fo the meat, and then just sat there subjecting everyone to, imo, vegan propaganda. And whether what you are saying about the conditions is true, partially true, or false, is irrelevant to what you started your thread about, and irrelevant to what many people care about. This is the last time I'll try to put this thread back on track before you can be alone here just telling people about the bad meat men.
What is different in the meat of abused animals that is not in the meat of humanely treated animals, that should be of concern to us??? HELLO!?!

#24 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 10:56 AM

The only one tagging along is you tongue.gif Just ignore this post if it bugs you... because it seems you are toooo worried about me brainwashing you with vegan propaganda.

I stated that I was putting a thought out there for people to bat around - and I didnt have enough time to research it this week. If you are wanting hard facts and evidence, you're going to have to wait for me to finish 3 exams this week tongue.gif

I was hoping other people had researched the topic and could put in input about things they had researched around the same topic. At this exact moment, I have no other evidence to support my suspicions other than typing out a chemistry review sheet for my class test in 6 hours.



#25 wrestler

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 04:26 PM

good luck on ur tests.

#26 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 05:54 PM

Thank you smile.gif I definitely need it since chemistry is not my cup of tea tongue.gif

#27 wrestler

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 08:41 AM

what level chemistry (hs or uni), and what type specifically?

#28 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:09 AM

Chmistry for science majors. There is also a biology test, those are the major ones I have tongue.gif

#29 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:14 AM

I'm sorry but it's been said but this is nonsense. Please come to the rural areas and see what actually goes on. Please go see what temperatures cows survive in on free range farms becuase of that they've adapted to. Please visit a slaughterhouse and see how cows are actually killed and the time this takes to process them. This is so frustrating to me, this PETA mentality. Hey guys, people who eat red meat also die earlier. Well that's settled. It couldn't be extreme lack of exercise in the americn lifestyle? It couldn't be the lack of certain nutrients? Lack of fiber? Lack of a balanced diet? It couldn't be the stress of daily life? You know the stress that produces constant amount of adrenaline in your body? It couldn't be any of those things because they all eat red meat. You know what? They all probably eat a vast number of the same things so why not jump on that?

Please try to find me a link that show me that a person with a healthy lifestyle and who happens to eat red meat will die earlier? Not just eats red meat but someone that exercises and eats a balanced diet and is stress free and optomistic and has a great family life. If you want to single out the red meat please add in the fact that red wine, berries, peppers, hell, most fruits and veggies, exercise, low stress, etc... counter the effects of the red meat. Now please show me a study that proves that a vegan that is stressed about all the "injustices" in the world like parent abusing their kids with meat and whom is lazy as shit(There are a lot), and who never drinks even once a week will live longer than the carnivore above. I would bet my entire forutune on the first guy living longer if they both had a family history of long life.

To rely to an earlier post, if someone told me that the earth revolved around the sun, gave evidence and then called me an idiot I would be a damn fool to ignore him just becuase my feelings were hurt. I try to make sense of what PETA and the like is pushing on me as facts but it's so sensationalist that I am constantly left defeated and resigned to the fact that big business will take over the world because the opposition is full of squacking idiots akin to chickens with their heads cut off. I mean my god here big business has a slick team of experts and these animal rights groups are telling me I was abused as a child becuase I was fed meat and that humans were never meant to eat meat. Should I also start beleiveing the creationsists and throw out evolution as well? Should I just forget various teeth and bodily functions that are solely designed to degest meat. Sorry I'm off topic.



#30 someoneintheuk

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 12:24 PM

its true that a diet high in animal meats such as beef, lamb and pork is extremely unhealthy. If you think back a hundred years ago animal meats were more of a once or twice a week luxury. I think the added hormones and unhealthy animals makes consuming them even more precarious.

But I also think it is the production of an omega 6 fatty acid caused by consumption of animal meats which is our problem as acne prone sufferers. This fat is called Arachidonic acid and is pro-inflammatory. It converts into the prostaglandin E2 which is a pro-inflammatory hormone.

i might add that there are many other food sources which produce Arachidonic acid though.

Also...I have seen many videos about animal cruelty and meat production. Its a shame people attack those whose want better conditions for those animals. Another good video:

http://www.themeatrix.com/

#31 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 12:55 PM

BlackBirdBeatle:

Please do not group me with PETA. smile.gif I am not a PETA follower nor do I follow PETA's politics. One can be republican without being an ardent follower of Bush.

I lived in the rural areas and cattle ranches (non-factory farming). The cattle graze out in the fields and lie in the shade of trees. They come home at dinner time. Farmers help the cows give birth to their baby calves. I actually lived on the 2nd largest ranch in Texas (2nd only to the King's ranch (one of the world's largest ranches) - which was granted to the family by the King of Spain before America became America). Its is very relaxed.. I loved living there and never forgot it. smile.gif.

However, the cattle ranch that I was raised on and the rural grass-fed and organic cattle farms to which you are referring make up less than 4% of beef eaten in America and Canada. Do EACH of the cattle farms which you are referring to ship out more than 1 million cattle per year to the slaughter houses? Do you see about a million cattle in each fenched in hill for each farm?

No. There is no way for the farmers which you see to compete with the Factory Farming Corporations which send out several hundred million cows per year to the slaughter houses. An article about this topic was even published last year in Farm & Rancher News. Factory Farming Corportations are quickly pushing the little farmers out of buisness because of the ways they are cutting costs -- at the expense of the animals.

You will not see any animals of a Factory Farm because it is illegal to go within 1 mile of the feedlots. You are arrested on the spot if you TRY to get a glimpse. You will also NOT see the animals because they keep several hundred in each building.

Have you been to the slaughter houses? I havent, however, I have talked to many factory workers who confirmed what the newspapers (such as the Washington Post and the New York Times) were talking about: Factory workers are coming forward to tell the public that roughly 30% of the animals slaughtered have their body parts removed when they were alive and blinking. Slaughter houses, themselves, state that 305 animals are slaughtered per hour. The faster, the more money made.

Again, I do not even read PETA's articles because I completely disagree with them. I do my own research. I talk to factory farm workers and I talk to slaughter house workers. I also have a very good connection with Farmers and Ranchers in the rural areas.

#32 someoneintheuk

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE
I'm sorry but it's been said but this is nonsense. Please come to the rural areas and see what actually goes on. Please go see what temperatures cows survive in on free range farms becuase of that they've adapted to. Please visit a slaughterhouse and see how cows are actually killed and the time this takes to process them. This is so frustrating to me, this PETA mentality.


I take it you live in a rural area. Why don't you make a video on how well treated they are if that's what really goes on. The video posted by the original thread poster is hardly make believe is it? For example, did you or did you not see the cruel conditions and processes used on them---simple observation, not sensationalism. Also, my father worked in a butchers in the late 70s and often went to slaughter houses and animal farms (in the uk) and vouches for the inhumane conditions.

Now thats not to say that nice farms dont exist, but lets face it, the majority of farms are not nice- but hellish. The sheer quantity of meat eaten in places like the uk and us makes these types of mass animal prisons a neccessity to feed our greedy guts.

It may have been said that this is all nonsense, but then some say the holocaust is a nonsense made up lie. People cant confront evil so say its bullshit.

Mass produced animal farms such as the one in the video are the rule, not the exception.

#33 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 01:17 PM

Even Wikipedia addresses the topic of poor living conditions for Factory Farmed animals (not the tiny green-pastured farms):

They state that animals raised for food are being fed their own manure to cut feed costs: eusa_sick.gif

"According to Dr. Michael Greger [7] in a January 2004 lecture at MIT (which was the basis for Whistleblower, a 2006 documentary film by Jeff Bellamar) each year more than one million tons of animal excrement are fed back to farm animals raised for human consumption to lower the feed costs. He also says that up to 10% of blood from killed animals is mixed into some cattle feed, and up to 30% of some poultry feed is made up of the blood."

This goes back to my original thought: Is it healthy to eat these animals on a daily basis if they are eating stuff like this? I think we should convert to organic or grass-fed cows rather than manure-fed cows. eusa_dance.gif


Wikipedia is not affiliated with PETA to make it prejudiced. eusa_naughty.gif

#34 tigerlily86

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE(R.S. @ Oct 20 2006, 06:45 PM) View Post

Solution: order vegetarian dishes when you eat out, buy free range chicken / eggs at home, and eat wild salmon every now and then too smile.gif

If you can't get vegetarian, most nice restaurants have wild salmon...

I just got back from a nice middle eastern restaurant, had some good veggie entree with hummus on the side smile.gif


There is no inspection or regulations for the companies that label their products "free range" or "cage free". These companies can basically raise the animals according to industry norms and then throw that label on there without any regulatory system.

QUOTE
Birds raised for meat ("broilers") may be considered "free-range" if they have U.S. Department of Agriculture-certified access to the outdoors. No other criteria-environmental quality, the size of the outdoor area, the number of birds confined in a single shed, or the indoor or outdoor space allotted per animal-are considered in applying the label. As with "free-range" laying hens, many "free-range" broilers live in a facility with only one small opening at the end of a large shed, permitting only a few birds to go outside at any given time.

Even Richard Lobb, spokesperson for the National Chicken Council admits, "Even in a free-range type of style of production, you're basically going to find most of them inside the grow out facility…."(2)

According to The Washington Post Magazine, in the case of birds, the term "free-range" "doesn't really tell you anything about the [animal's]…quality of life, nor does it even assure that the animal actually goes outdoors."(3)

Aside from the birds' actual living conditions, there is no prohibition in "free-range" poultry farming against using breeds of chickens and turkeys who have been selectively bred for fast growth and high feed conversion.


As found here.

As to the original poster's hypothesis, maybe. Maybe not. I think there is probably too much adrenaline in the finished products, as many of the aniamls suffer long and slow deaths down the assembly lines. Many animals are not completely dead after slaughter. They, however, readily die once they are cut apart into pieces.

I, also, do not consider myself a PETA member or affiliated with them in any way, and if you actually look -- you'll see there are plenty of undercover videos of slaughter practices conducted by organizations that are not PETA. Testimony from former meat factory workers have been collected and verified by other organizations than PETA. This incessant anti-PETA attitude is just annoying. They are NOT the only animal rights organization out there people, and just because that's the one you hear about and choose to mock the most does not mean their actions or beliefs represent all animal rights groups.

That's like saying all Catholics represent all Christians.

#35 R.S.

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 06:31 PM

[quote name='tigerlily86' date='Oct 26 2006, 12:25 PM' post='1447931']
[quote name='R.S.' post='1435605' date='Oct 20 2006, 06:45 PM']
Solution: order vegetarian dishes when you eat out, buy free range chicken / eggs at home, and eat wild salmon every now and then too smile.gif

If you can't get vegetarian, most nice restaurants have wild salmon...

I just got back from a nice middle eastern restaurant, had some good veggie entree with hummus on the side smile.gif
[/quote]

Okay, so go to your farmers market and buy locally, or buy direct from a farm where you actually see the living conditions.

#36 tigerlily86

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 07:53 PM


Okay, so go to your farmers market and buy locally, or buy direct from a farm where you actually see the living conditions.


Point is/was you cannot trust labels that are not regulated, and the cage free and free range are not. And personally I wouldn't buy/eat meat even if I knew it were humanely kept (and shit there's no humane way to really kill something...you can kill something fast to make it almost painless but murder in not humane) and killed because if I wouldn't want to kill it myself, cut it up and clean it out than I really have no business eating it.

#37 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 08:43 PM

I think I understand where you are coming from - its just not wanting to kill so that you can eat. I am that way now that I've been vegetarian for 1.7 years.

When my boyfriend became a vegetarian, it was only because the animals suffered on factory farms. 6 months later, I heard him say that he couldnt find it within himself to take something's life whether it had a happy life or sad life: it wasnt his life to take.

So I can understand smile.gif. I have realized that I am vegatarian only because I dont want to bring undue suffering to other creatures, and secondly for health reasons. Its just something within me tongue.gif.

#38 tigerlily86

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE(Apple_Blossem @ Oct 26 2006, 07:43 PM) View Post

its just not wanting to kill so that you can eat.


Yes and especially when you don't even really need it. It's a fact, we don't need meat to survive (but haha, on the other hand you need plants to survive). You, and I, and all other vegetarians and vegans are living proof. So if it's something we don't need, and usually just continue with it because it "tastes good" and because it's a cultural custom to eat meat morning, noon, and night -- then why eat it when you know it causes harmful effects on the innocent animals, the Earth, and our health? Anyway, just my point of view.

And good for you for converting your boyfriend! I converted mine too when I stopped eating meat and now he loves being vegetarian.


#39 Apple_Blossem

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 05:01 PM

I converted mine on accident actually. I downloaded Meet Your Meat and couldnt get it to work. So I asked him for help and then he popped popcorn and was very happy that we were going to watch a "movie" together, hehehehe. The movie was anything but what he was expecting! I was not expecting him to become vegetarian overnight.

#40 wrestler

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 06:43 PM

QUOTE(patunox @ Oct 26 2006, 07:06 PM) View Post

Animals have adrenalin, or the meat that you eat, if they know they are going to get killed. If they are killed quickly and without pain they won't even know.

Killing a cow with a hammer or machete, might fill its blood and muscles with adrenalin, hence unhealthy meat.

eusa_wall.gif eusa_wall.gif Are you serious? that's what this thread is about, was that meant as a reminder?

QUOTE(tigerlily86 @ Oct 27 2006, 01:53 AM) View Post


Okay, so go to your farmers market and buy locally, or buy direct from a farm where you actually see the living conditions.


Point is/was you cannot trust labels that are not regulated, and the cage free and free range are not. And personally I wouldn't buy/eat meat even if I knew it were humanely kept (and shit there's no humane way to really kill something...you can kill something fast to make it almost painless but murder in not humane) and killed because if I wouldn't want to kill it myself, cut it up and clean it out than I really have no business eating it.

i hate how people can put stuff like that on packaging and mislead people. There should be huge fines for deliberately misleading consumers with things of that nature. Don't even get me started on how undefined the term 'natural' is, yet millions see it and think it means something. (on that note, the other day i noticed something interesting on my milk - it said "no artificial hormones" or somethign to that effect. I couldn't help but wonder if, as deceitful as it would be, they meant they only use natural hormones smile.gif ; I'm dead serious too, I honestly wouldn't say with 100% certainty that they don't mean they're just using natty hormones lol. And on that note, can someone from this thread toss up a link or two that explains why hormones in the cows lead to hormones in the milk / meat? I've been under the impression that it doesn't show as detectable in the products, yet that seems to run contrary to public opinion. and 'of course it gets in the meat' isn't proof lol)