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B5 & Accutane - My Theory - Inhibit Biotin = Less Acne

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This theory definitely has some validity.. Because transcarboxylase levels are genetic. Those transcarboxylase levels work with biotin. Individuals who inherited the levels could also have inherited acne. I'm not 100 % sure on this, yet.

Biochemistry. 1975 Jun 3;14(11):2338-42. Related Articles, Links

Production of antibodies that bind biotin and inhibit biotin containing enzymes.

Berger M.

Methods were developed for the coupling of biotin to bovine serum albumin and bovine gamma-globulin using a water-soluble carbodimide. The use of [14-C]biotin as a tracer allowed quantitation of the incorporation of biotin into the conjugates: 2.55 mol of biotin was incorporated per mol of gamma-globulin and 7-9 mol of biotin was incorporated per mol of serum albumin in different preparations. These conjugates were highly immunogenic in the rabbit and anti-bodies reactive with the biotinyl group itself could be detected by their ability to precipitate the heterologous biotinated carrier but not the unmodified heterologous carrier. There antisera rapidly inactivated transcarboxylase and pyruvate carboxylase and this inactivation could be blocked by pretreatment of the antisera with biotin or biocytin. Using enzyme inhibition to detect free antibody, the binding constant for biotin was found to be 5.0 x 10- minus 8 M and that for biocytin 3.5 x 10- minus 8 M.

PMID: 49192 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This is actually quite amazing to me, because it would explain why biotin itself is not the cause of acne. Its the levels of genetic material that deal with the biotin. that would explain why a person not experiencing acne would not break out after consuming large amounts of biotin..


Accutane 40mg twice daily-completely clear, but now red marks

This wise man once told me..

"Each man either suffers one of two things: discipline or regret. It is much better to suffer from discipline than regret, as the threshold of pain is much shorter. And regret may last forever."


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I'm still trying to research this Biotin theory further. I used to take B5 which worked really well in stopping oil production, however I suffered with a side effect of heat intolerance and sweating. I thought Accutane was the solution to stop my acne but prevent the side effects, however I also found that it had the same effect of causing heat intolerance and sweating.

Both things caused the same side effects, but also dried up my skin oil. Again the common link between Accutane and B5 is their ability to inhibit the action of Biotin, so I'm still of the opinion that by doing this the skin oil dries up but for some unknown reason at this stage the sweating and intolerance to heat increases.

Cheers

Craig

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doesnt raw eggwhite (the avidine in it) also inhibit biotin?


Disease cannot live in a body that is in a healthy emotional state. 


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doesnt raw eggwhite (the avidine in it) also inhibit biotin?

Raw egg white is another one of the things that can inhibit Biotin as the Avidin contained within it binds to the Biotin making it biologically inactive. I can't find anything conclusive that would indicate how many raw egg whites you'd have to consume to bind a sufficient enough quantity of Biotin to cause a deficiency though. The body is capable of reusing Biotin as well so needs time for a defiency to build up. (same with Accutane and B5)

Cooking the egg white deactivates the avidin so prevents its Biotin binding ability. The raw egg yolk also contains around as much Biotin as the avidin in the egg white inhibits so if you ingest the raw yolk with the raw egg white you are effectively counter acting the effects of avidin.

Based upon that you could therefore assume that if you were to ingest a sufficient enough quantity of raw egg whites without the yolk you should see the same results as using Accutane or B5. At this stage I'm not sure what the quantity required to achieve this is.

I still maintain there's some credibility to this theory as at the moment it's the one, for me that make logical sense. Maybe one day instead of acne sufferers taking megadoses of B5 or the side effect ridden Accutane we'll be taking an Avidin pill.

Unfortunately I'm only one person who happens to suffer from oily skin and acne, and even if this theory is correct as to how B5 and Accutane (and raw egg white) works then I can't see it getting taken any further without research from a big pharmaceutical company.

There's a chemically purified form of Avidin called Streptavidin that you can actually buy from biochemical companies but it's not for human consumption and costs a small fortune!

Cheers

Craig

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It seems that you would need to consume a huge amount of egg whites, just like that body builder (48 a day). Only 0.05% of egg white is avidin.

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It seems that you would need to consume a huge amount of egg whites, just like that body builder (48 a day). Only 0.05% of egg white is avidin.

hehe 48 a day! That would take some stamina :).

Might be interesting to see if there's some secret formula of vit a (which can't take too much of), vit b5 and raw egg whites which wasn't over the top in causing deficiencies in other areas as well other than biotin.

It's oddly the first time I wish I wasn't on accutane so I could test it with the oil on my face hehe.

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The thing is all three work in slightly different ways as far as I can tell from the research I've done so far, but ultimately have the same action:

  • Accutane causes a Biotinidase deficiency which means the body is unable to use the available Biotin it absorbs.
  • Pantothenic Acid or B5 blocks the uptake, i.e. absorption of Biotin meaning that none enters the blood stream as the digestive system absorbs the B5 instead.
  • Avidin in Raw Egg Whites binds directly to the Biotin preventing it from being used by the body when absorbed.
All three have been reported, some officially, some unofficially, to dry up sebum production and cause dry skin. The only common link between all three is associated with Biotin so I have little doubt that Biotin has an influencial effect on sebaceous glands.

What I'm not sure about is how a Biotin deficiency is able to shrink the sebaceous glands. Is it a direct action or indirect, e.g. lowering or raising other hormone levels, etc.

Cheers

Craig

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I've always suffered with being quite hot when people around me are cool and as a result I sweat a lot. I've found that both B5 and Accutane have increased that side effect for me so lowering Biotin or Biotinidase levels at least for me, also seems to be doing something that's increasing my intolerance to heat.

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I'd guess that it's down to the change in hormone levels or something to do with glucose levels.

Cheers

Craig

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hm.. Well I think taking accutane too long would be dangerous but wouldn't having a lot of b5 also be a bit dangerous, although if it's ok to use a lot of it is there a certain way to not have the hair loss part?

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hm.. Well I think taking accutane too long would be dangerous but wouldn't having a lot of b5 also be a bit dangerous, although if it's ok to use a lot of it is there a certain way to not have the hair loss part?

I think B5 is probably less dangerous as its water soluble, so you can't really overdose on it as such as not stored in the liver etc (afaik).

Hard to say if its possible without the hairloss, think it will depend on your genes, I'm currently on accutane and no hairloss, but I know others that have had. It's a risk basically (one I'm personally happy to take, as I'm gonna lose hair at some point anyway).

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B5 itself isn't toxic because it's water soluble so as long as you're getting enough water the excess will be flushed out when the body doesn't need it anymore so there's nothing really to worry about there.

The action of B5 megadosing could be harmful long term though. If I'm right and the way B5 works is by inducing a Biotin deficiency by blocking it's absorption then the long term effects of a Biotin deficiency on the body could cause problems!

I still remain convinced that the way B5, Accutane and as yet unproven raw egg whites can stop or slow down sebum production is by inducing a Biotin related deficiency. I'm not sure whether the lack of Biotin acts directly on the sebaceous glands to shrink / kill them, or whether there's another action, e.g. Biotin deficiency prevents the metabolism of some hormones or fats that would normally be excreted by the sebaceous glands, but in my mind inducing a Biotin deficiency has a definite role to play in reducing sebum.

Some initial side effects of a Biotin deficiency include those listed below: (Taken from Wikipedia)

* Dry skin

* Seborrheic dermatitis

* Fungal infections

* Rashes including erythematous periorofacial macular rash

* Fine and brittle hair

* Hair loss or total alopecia

Long term it seems a Biotin deficiency can progress into the side effects listed below which are more concerning! (also from Wikipedia)

* Mild depression, which may progress to profound lassitude and, eventually, to somnolence

* Changes in mental status

* Generalized muscular pains (myalgias)

* Hyperesthesias and paresthesias

Cheers

Craig

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Accutane has appeared on various news websites recently regarding new research that in mice it appeared to trigger a depression type state, although this study hadn't been conducted in humans so it is unknown whether it has the same effect.

What I do find interesting with this though, is that a Biotin deficiency has been linked to causing depression in certain individuals as per the details contained in my last post taken from Wikipedia. This to me is yet more evidence that the way Accutane works is by inducing a Biotin related deficiency which directly or indirectly causes a reduction in sebum.

I feel that the Biotin reduction link with B5, Accutane & Raw Egg White is enough to warrant extra investigation but I'm not sure where to start or who to present my theory to!

Cheers

Craig

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hey craigy what are biotin rich foods that I should avoid while on tane??

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hey craigy what are biotin rich foods that I should avoid while on tane??

Taking Accutane should ensure that ingesting foods that contain Biotin doesn't have any impact on sebum production as Accutane acts to reduce Biotinidase which prevents the Biotin from being used no matter how much there is.

B5 and Raw Egg White (without the Yolk) act directly on reducing Biotin itself but the end result on sebum production is the same, although you have to be more careful about ingesting foods rich in Biotin if you're on B5 or using Raw Egg Whites as they don't stop it being used if it gets aborbed into your body.

There's a comprehensive list on the webpage below:

http://www.healthyeatingclub.com/info/book...ata/data4h.html

To pick some of the foods on the list with a high Biotin content: (greater than or equal to 10 micrograms per 100 grams)

* Bran Wheat

* Dried Bakers Yeast

* Cheese Souffle

* Egg (inc Yolk, boiled, fried, scrambled, omlette, poached, etc)

* Raw Oysters

* Fried Cod Roe

* Fried Chicken Liver

* Fried Kidney

* Fried Liver

* Dried Skimmed Milk

* Dried Whole Milk

* Mayonnaise

So if anyone has a diet high in the foods above then it could be a contributing factor to sebum production, although I think even in the abscence of the above the enzymes in the gut are capable of synthesising Biotin on their own!

Cheers

Craig

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I still remain convinced that Accutane and B5 both work by causing a Biotin or Biotinidase deficiency and as such shrink the sebaceous glands so they stop producing sebum. I'm noticing more and more similarities between the effects of Accutane and B5 on my body. I'm not a scientist but I've never been more confident about any theory I've come up with than this Biotin one as it makes sense.

Maybe one day we'll be taking Avidin (the molecule that binds to Biotin found in raw egg white) to cure our Acne instead of megadosing on B5 and the controversial Accutane drug.

Cheers

Craig

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B5 + Tane it is scary ... Especially for G.Flora and might damage liver >_<


!~ WHAT WE PUT IN OUR BODIES WILL SHOW ON OUR SKIN ~!


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i just wanted to throw a little wrench in ur theory. isn't it possible that taking the biotin threw off another bvitamin that is needed?


MY ROUTINE

AM

1) wash with paula's choice normal to oily cleanser

2) Napca mist from twinlab or the one from nuskin and spray many times to get a good layer of moisture.

3)Avalon organics revitalizing eye gel

4)Cory Minerals (I've found that the secret to cory is to use ur brush to really swirl it around to grind the powder down even finer than it is and then to tap off the excess and start off with thin layers and build.) i also will take a concealer brush and dab it on certain areas that i need to cover up more thickly and then use a bronzer with a big bronzer brush to blend. ( i use estee lauder bronze goddess). i use bronzer all over and this seems to even out everything.

5)Aquaphor for lips.

PM

1)Same PC N/O

2b)some nights I mask with aspirin mixed with milk of magnesia and nuetrogena clear pore cleanser mask in nose and chin area - to make mask i use a small spray bottle with distilled water that i always keep in my bathroom and i take about 8 aspirin in the palm of my hand and spray and mush with my fingers until it is a thick paste. i then add a drop of MOM and put a small amount of neut. clear pore cleanser mask. don't use mask every night.

3)Aubrey organics Vegecol toner

4)Spot treat w/ prosacea gel

5)same on eyes and lips as AM


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i just wanted to throw a little wrench in ur theory. isn't it possible that taking the biotin threw off another bvitamin that is needed?

One of the things I tried during B5 megadosing was taking a B complex multivitamin. This in itself would give me the required dosage of all the other B vitamins so I don't think that's possible that Biotin caused me to be deficient in a different B vitamin. I found that taking a B complex, despite also megadosing B5 as well caused my oily skin and therefore acne to gradually return which is why I tried taking the vitamins within a B complex seperately and through trial and error found it was only Biotin that caused my oily skin and acne to come back.

I apologise to people who've seen this thread before, but I'm 100% convinced that the way B5 and Accutane both work is they reduce the effects of Biotin which shrinks the sebaceous glands and reduces sebum production. I'm kind of hoping someone with a bit more of a scientific background will read this and take my theory on board and provide a better insight into it, or possibly be in a position to do some research!

Think about it, the quantity of B5 required for reducing oily skin is way more than the body is capable of using so the majority of the stuff ends up excreted in the urine or through sweat, so why do you need to take that much? It's because by taking that much, spaced out evenly over the day, you are ensuring that there is enough B5 in the digestive system to prevent the absorption of Biotin into the blood stream, and when there's no or little Biotin the sebaceous glands shrink and stop producing oil.

Cheers

Craig

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Well, as a result of an e-mail I sent to them, Roche have contacted me and are interested in what I've got to say as they've left me an answerphone message asking me to call them back. I'll be calling them on Monday and letting them know more about my theory so they'll either dismiss it, have already looked into it, or will be interested and investigate it further!

Cheers

Craig

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Well, as a result of an e-mail I sent to them, Roche have contacted me and are interested in what I've got to say as they've left me an answerphone message asking me to call them back. I'll be calling them on Monday and letting them know more about my theory so they'll either dismiss it, have already looked into it, or will be interested and investigate it further!

Cheers

Craig

Did you hear anything yet? This is very interesting!


~ What doesn't kill you makes you stronger ~


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Craigy, it has been a while since you first posted this theory, how about an update?

I read your earlier post on a different forum from 2005:

"I'm going to order all the B vitamins individually in small doses and add them one at a time to try and identify which ones seem to trigger my acne and which ones help with hairloss."

You wrote the first vitamin you tried was Biotin:

"I've started by ordering Biotin in 1000mcg capsule form as that seems to be the most recommended one to take so I'm waiting for that to arrive...

...Well the Biotin arrived and I've been taking 5000mcg a day for the past few days along with the megadose of B5. The first day I didn't notice any changes, but I woke up the following day with oily skin. I persevered and the oily skin continued and I started to get spots again."

Does this mean you only tested the Biotin individually? Did you ever get around to testing any of the other B-vitamins individually to see if they triggered a breakout?

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After about a year, I'm back to this message board.

I've been taking about 2grams of B5 a day for about 6 years now. It pretty much keeps my skin clear.

Every now and then, I get dermatitis on my hands. Rashes appear on my palms, skin is dry on hands. Usually I stop b5 for a week or so, and these symptoms go away.

I attributed this to the defficiency of other B vitamins, and so I've been taking a multivitamin while not taking b5. I noticed that my acne breaks out when I take multivit. so I started researchin again and that brought me to this thread. My condition could be caused by biotin defficiency.

Now I stopped multivit and got back on b5 and my dermatitis reappeared on my palms.

Anyone has an idea, how to deal with this? If I take b5, I got dermatitis on palms, if I take multivit, I got acne back.

Additionally, anyone has an experience with dermatitis on palms of their hands? Is it caused by biotin deficiency or should I try taking some of the other b-vits (b1, b6) individually?


I don't care what they may say. I don't care what they may do. Jesus is still allright with me.


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u do know the whole B group has to be taken in a balance amount for them to work right..?

like B2 and B6..they have to the same amount

http://www.country-life.com/moreinfo.cfm?C...p;Product_ID=75

i found this one to be well balanced

it's basically a B complex with another name...look at the ingredient list n it's the same as B complex or even better

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