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Overview and detailed description of self needling

boxcar co2 dermabrasion subcision needling tca

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#1 Healtysceptic

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 12:15 AM

Hi All,

I created this new thread becuase so many people are asking about needling; the basic procedure, how to do it yourself, how far you poke the needle in, how deep, how long to wait in between sessions, and a myriad of other related questions. Gumby posted the below information sometime in the past. His description of self needling is excellent.

Perhaps this new thread can be the "go to" thread regarding how to self needle. I'm trying to eliminate the redundacy of the question " How do I needle" or "What is needling". Many people are starting new threads asking this question when the information is contained in threads right in front of them.

Perhaps the moderators might want to consider adding Needling onto the front page where there are descriptions of other treatment options like dermabrasion, subscion, etc.

Please feel free to add new information you acquire from your own needling experience. And please feel free to ask any question about needling you want.

Also, I take issue with Gumby's "jackhammer" approach. I think poking the needle into a single moderate size scar 10 times or so is sufficient to get results. I err on the side of caution here.

I urge those who want to try needling but feel frightened to find a dr. or esthetician to perform the procedure for them.

But if you are just a tad tentative I suggest self needling a single scar. Wait a month, needle it again, and then judge your results. If you like the results you can proceed more boldly from there.

I have gotten very good results from my self needling thus far. I have needled 3 craters on my cheek(boxcars of moderate depth) 3 times so far. I waited a month in between sessions. I have seen pretty dramatic new collagen growth. In fact, I have had every procedure known ( Dermabrasion, Fillers, CO2 Laser, etc.) done on them in the past with zippo results. So far needling, at a cost of 6 bucks for the needles, has provided me with the best results to date.
James

The below dMessage Forwarded From Gumby

1. First of all. Can I do this needling myself?
Sure, but a pro would probably do a better job.

2. I have a STERILIZED syringe needle. How do I make sure it is sterilized. Should I put it into boiling water or use a new every time?
Buy a box of 100 30G needles, it costs like $7,8. The needles are already sterilized so u dont have to boil them. Change needles every other scar because they go blunt fairly quickly, they weren't designed for serial puncturing.

3. Then I have an indentated scar. I take the syringe needle up to the middle of the scar and prick a tiny hole in it (there should ONLY be one drop of blood right?)
OK, that was when I wanted to cause a minute amount of swelling so that I could make the scar temporarily dissapear, that's why it took me so long to see the first results, 1 prick just isn't enuf for serious scar revision. When you needle a scar in order to start to get rid of it you do thusly:

- make sure you clean and disinfect your hands b4 u start and clean your skin with alcohol-soaked cotten swabs. And use ONLY sterilized syringe needles, people have been known to get blood poisoning by using sewing needles and such.

- stretch the scar u want to treat as wide as possible with your fingers and then start laying into it jackhammer-style with the needle, not just once or twice but as many times as possible, needle EVERY part of the scar and come in at various angles, go crazy! Don't worry, it won't hurt because scar tissue has no nerve endings. As you are piercing u should hear popping sounds, this means u are breaking up the old scar tissue, which is what u want.

There will be blood running down your face by then so keep lots of alchohol-soaked cotten handy to regularly wipe it off with.

4. What do I do next? Do I clean the "wound" with water first and then apply som moisturizing cream to the "wound"?
Wipe the blood off with alchohol-soaked cotten and then apply antiseptic oitnment (betadine, ect.) on the wounds and let scabs form. Your face will be all swollen up for a while but that will soon pass, tho residual swelling can last for over a month.

5. Then even after that what do I do? Should I just keep moisturizing the tiny hole till it is completely gone? The entire week afterwards?
Let the scabs fall of by themselves (don't pick!!!!) and I would recommend u apply copper peptide serum to maximize healing and optimise collagen remodelling.

Tiny hole? U need to needle the ENTIRE scar many times, the bottom, the walls, all that is scar tissue and needs to go.

The pros use a tattoo gun which pierces the skin hundreds of times a second, which is why they tend to have better results.

6. When I have already made a tiny hole to the middle of the scar, should I then do that again or should I find another place on the scar to needle? Is it good to injure the same place twice after each other?
See above.

7. Why is it exactly this technic works? When you needle a scar the scar tissue will just go further into the skin, won't it?
No, it is thick and taught so it "snaps" as you pierce it, you can actually hear it, it makes an audible "pop" sound.

How it works:
FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=IPB Image"

A depressed acne scar is caused by the imperfect remodelling of collagen after an injury/infection, see, the body don't care how it's gunna look afterwards, it's primary concern is that healing takes place, just the way you'd start throwing shit on a kitchen fire like crazy to snuff it out, even tho you'd be making a mess of the place.

Anyway, this imperfect collagen layer aka scar tissue (the pink stuff) is thick and fiberous and in this case it works like millions of tiny ropes pulling downwards, thus making a depressed scar.

When you needle a scar you are doing 2 important things:

a) you break up the scar tissue

b) you create a superficial wound which stimulates the production of brand new collagen, which gradually takes the place of the disappearing scar tissue, thus filling up the scar and eventually making it history.

Subcision and TCA CROSS do essentially the same thing, tho subcision works by cutting thru the scar tissue with a bladed needle inserted under the scar itself while CROSS burns thru the scar tissue with acid.

All this takes many months of course, but over time things add up and you'll notice your scars becoming less deep. The important thing is to be persistant and not stop if you think you aren't getting any results.

8. When I have made this tiny hole and it has healed, should new skin then appear or what? If I know my body well enough it would just make a new scar? (but maybe the hole is too little?)
If you've done it well, you'll have a thick scab for about a week. Then when it falls off, the scar will seem very small or nearly gone but that's just the swelling, it will gradually reappear, tho it might seem a bit "different" - it might be less deep but wider, it might be darker, it might even seem a bit deeper but don't worry, all this means that you've forced it to start remodelling and this is a good thing. Just let the body do its healing thing and wotever u do, don't rub or squeeze the needled scar, new collagen is VERY fragile and breaks up easily.

Wait at least a month b4 doing it again or else you'll just be destroying the newly-forming collagen and u dont want that.

Again, even if things don't seem to be happening at first, dont give up, just keep going and you'll eventually notice your scars getting noticeably smaller and smaller and smaller.......


#2 DJT

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 01:49 AM

Yes a very informative and hard to find post from Gumby.

Might just be me, but is the question on how far to insert the needle still not answered?

#3 izzydee

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 02:08 AM

QUOTE(DJT @ Jun 30 2006, 01:49 AM) View Post

Yes a very informative and hard to find post from Gumby.

Might just be me, but is the question on how far to insert the needle still not answered?

yes that and do you go around the edges outside of scar first then work your way in to the middle or start right in the middle and cover every inch of crater with jabs from needle? Is it best to go in at straight angle or sideways with the needle.i'm confused need help too

#4 Guest_tired of this shish_*

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 08:08 AM

Healthysceptic,

Modify your post--this contains no new information other than what Gumby already posted.

#5 bobbarker659

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE(tired of this shish @ Jun 30 2006, 08:08 AM) View Post

Healthysceptic,

Modify your post--this contains no new information other than what Gumby already posted.


What are you talking about?!?!?! Please read over the posts carefully before posting nonsense like this.

His post happens to be extremely informative, he first tells us what kind of procedures he's had, how many times he's performed the needling and furthermore adds that he doesnt recommend Gumby's jackhammer approach.

Thank you for the post Healthysceptic

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 03:45 PM

I'm getting more "vivid" information from Gumby's repost.

#7 Healtysceptic

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 04:53 PM

I thought it would be a helpful post becuase so many people seem to be missing Gumby's post.

I wouldn't poke any further than when you start to draw blood. I use a 30 gauge diabetic needle and probably poke it less than one third in before blood starts to flow. That's where I stop.

I think it is helpful to poke around the edges of the scar also. Keep dabbing the blood off with a cotton ball soaked in rubbing alcohol so you can see what you are doing. Then you can do the middle of the scar, etc. Do the whole scar completely.

As to sickofthisshish's post. I'll chalk his comments up to having a bad day.

Good luck all, James

#8 AntzinPantz

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 06:33 PM

James, do you use copper peptides?

thanks

#9 butterflies74

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:34 PM

Thank you, James! Gumby's very informative post was buried in the middle of a needling thread from quite a while back & most people can't find it. I also appreciate your advice & sharing your experience. I too am a little alarmed at the jackhammer approach and I believe this was off-putting to many people who otherwise would have tried it. It obviously worked for Gumby, but it's nice to know it's not ABSOLUTELY necessary for successful needling.
Have a fabulous 4th of July! God Bless America.

#10 Healtysceptic

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE(AntzinPantz @ Jun 30 2006, 05:33 PM) View Post

James, do you use copper peptides?

thanks


Thanks for the kind words Butterflies. Very nice. You to have a great 4th.

No, I don't use anything but anti-bacterial soap and water. In the past I have tried copper peptides, retin-A, peels, etc. You name and I've done it. I honestly think it all made my skin worse. Redder, blotchier, more sensitive, even highlighted the scaring.

Since I don't break out and have decent skin tone to begin with ( worse when I used the above to supposedly treat scars) I use nothing. And my skin looks better for it. This is just my case though. I suggest people do and use what is best for them.

After I needle I just use a bit of soap and warm water and gently clean the area I have needled. That's it. So far so good. James

#11 Laith

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:42 PM

I have a question for ya (or anyone who can answer)

Do you HAVE to draw blood when doing this? I needled a few scars last night and I had to go in pretty deep before I saw blood, and even after several stabs it still didn't seep out, it was just bloody in the scar. I can't imagine jabbing it even further just to draw blood helping in any way.

Then when I was doing a few others, I just went in untill it made that popping sound then stopped, there was no blood at all. Would that still work?

#12 Healtysceptic

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE(imsolost @ Jun 30 2006, 08:42 PM) View Post

I have a question for ya (or anyone who can answer)

Do you HAVE to draw blood when doing this? I needled a few scars last night and I had to go in pretty deep before I saw blood, and even after several stabs it still didn't seep out, it was just bloody in the scar. I can't imagine jabbing it even further just to draw blood helping in any way.

Then when I was doing a few others, I just went in untill it made that popping sound then stopped, there was no blood at all. Would that still work?



The popping sound is definetely very good. As long as you hear that you are gold. It means the scar tissue is breaking up,blood or no blood.

I think you do not need to draw blood as a rule. Sometimes I drew very little to no blood on a particular scar and it is doing just as well as the others that did bleed.

Also, some may bleed easier than others. I find when I do a little prick, I bleed. Others may not. Be that as it may, I would err on the side of caution. Don't go deeper if you feel uncomfortable.

You have all the time in the world to test out needling. In a month, if the scars you needled that did not bleed are unchanged, then perhaps poke a tad deeper. Good luck.
James

#13 Laith

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:25 PM

I see, Thanks for your help man.

#14 Guest_tired of this shish_*

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE(new_guy1 @ Jun 30 2006, 03:51 PM) View Post

QUOTE(tired of this shish @ Jun 30 2006, 09:45 PM) View Post

I'm getting more "vivid" information from Gumby's repost.


You messed with the wrong dude and I'm really tired of your sh!t

Thanks for posting this James. Very informative.



seems like you've eaten plenty of it too.

don't bother pm'ing a mod about this. Already gotten ahead of you. This site is getting what my screen name has been--pure shish!

#15 zxc

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:18 PM

Wow I am the one who asked Gumby all those questions! I do not really get where you have them from since they are in my inbox, but it does not matter as long as it helps people!

I have done needling myself...I would say it has helped me, but it is damn difficult to get COMPLETELY rid of scars...I do not really think that is possible...but at least I think it is possible to reduce them considerably...

But needling does not seem to work for scarred pores...I do not know what to do about them!

#16 zxc

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:30 PM

Actually I asked Gumby whether I could publish his answers, but he said he did not want that...so actually that's not very good considering this thread rolleyes.gif

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#17 jasmin

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE(zxc @ Jul 2 2006, 04:30 PM) View Post

Actually I asked Gumby whether I could publish his answers, but he said he did not want that...so actually that's not very good considering this thread rolleyes.gif

Do you think needling shallow scars is too risky?Did Gumby needle shallow scars successfully? I wonder why the collagen would remodel in a better way with a self inflicted injury after forming scar tissue from a cyst. Isnt it possible that for some people the collagen will just remodel in its usual ugly way after any injury?
Why do you think it does not work for scarred pores?


#18 Healtysceptic

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 08:35 PM

I found Gumby's post somewhere within the public domain of this site. Someone posted it in plain view somewhere here. I just copied and saved it, and included it here. That's it.

My boxcars continue to look better after three needlings. The scarred pores, that I did 2 weeks ago, I'm less sure of. Probably will need more sessions to see improvement, if they improve at all.

Through this whole experience I can say the boxcars are improving greatly, and at least the scarred pores have not been made worse by needling them. I'll wait and see. James

#19 mc_patz

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 09:50 AM

bump

#20 rickpost77

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

I needled one scar and wanted to combine it with TCA cross how long should I wait?