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Is sebum just another form of body fat?


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#1 ~TEPL0~

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 06:29 PM

if sebum is caused by the same stuff as body fat in fat people, then we should treat it the exact same way: by limiting how many calories we consume.

#2 Tomorrow

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE(T∑PLØ @ Jun 25 2006, 06:29 PM) View Post

if sebum is caused by the same stuff as body fat in fat people, then we should treat it the exact same way: by limiting how many calories we consume.



I'm in shape and I still have sebum but I guess then that wouldnt matter
all that shines turns to rust

#3 KnowShow

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 01:43 PM

hmmm interesting. All I know is that my diet consists of ALOT of fat. but good fat. Olive oil, brazilian nuts, maguro sashimi, raw egg yolks. I also have almost no fat on my body. I actually really want to test my body fat % because I think it may be too low. So anyways, if I stick to my diet, consisting of alot of fat, I get no new breakouts. Explain that. I'd be very interested to hear what someone who knows what they're talking about clear this up for us.

#4 bedrock

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:37 PM

From what I hear, excess sebum is caused by hormones. I guess when your body is flooded with hormones, your liver can't cleanse all this since it is being overloaded. I've had oily skin most of my life, as well as acne. I have dramatically cut my acne down to just a few pimples, but I still have oily greasy skin. That's why I still get a few pimples here and there. I have cut out all dairy and cheese products, so I think this helped. Think about it: Dairy comes from cows, which are pumped with extra hormones! When I eat cheese or have food that contains dairy, I do notice break outs. Anyway, I have cut down on things that may increase my hormone levels such as lifting weights, having sex, and eating dairy. Since this test, I've been 98% acne free in the last 5 months. I also take some herbs to help cleanse my blood, which may help. I still get oily skin. I wish we could really know why we get oily skin because it really bugs me!

#5 ~TEPL0~

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:41 PM

yea, it's from hormones, but the fundamental materials for sebum have to come from somewhere. They have to come from food. If you starve yourself, your body will have to materials to produce sebum.

For example, fruit juice ALWAYS causes cysts for me, but doesn't make my skin get oily. Fat only causes cysts if it's combined with something sweet.

#6 Danny©

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE(T∑PLØ @ Jun 25 2006, 06:29 PM) View Post

if sebum is caused by the same stuff as body fat in fat people, then we should treat it the exact same way: by limiting how many calories we consume.


It's not that simple. Sebum excess is subcutaneous fat which has not been broken down properly so it doesn't go back to circulation and buil up in the sweating glands. Subcutaneous fat unlike the damn visceral fat has a turnover where the excess is broken down and goes back to blood stream. The problem with sebum build up is a lack of properly breaking down of fat deposits.

Of course fat is vital so you can't eliminate visceral fat or subcutaneou fat but you can have healthy levels of them. I have low body fat levels but still oil builds up in my glands so the point is not decreasing body fat or dietary fat but properly breaking down of subcutaneous fat deposits

Danny

#7 Danny©

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:14 AM

QUOTE(KnowShow @ Jun 27 2006, 01:43 PM) View Post

hmmm interesting. All I know is that my diet consists of ALOT of fat. but good fat. Olive oil, brazilian nuts, maguro sashimi, raw egg yolks. I also have almost no fat on my body. I actually really want to test my body fat % because I think it may be too low.


Body fat is so misleading
If you think you may have too low fat % because of what you see when you look in the mirror then you've probably too much body fat
In other words skinny people are fat
When you have body fat level that are 10% you can't really tell except for muscle definition but body mass, the mass which makes your body which makes what other people will see when they look at your body is muscle
Our body is made of muscle and covered in a layer of fat so low fat levels can't really make a person skinny or light only low muscles levels can and therefore higher fat levels


QUOTE
So anyways, if I stick to my diet, consisting of alot of fat, I get no new breakouts. Explain that. I'd be very interested to hear what someone who knows what they're talking about clear this up for us.


Well the author theorized that body fat as in overweight people would contribute to excessive sebum so the pount would not be wether you eat lot of fat or not much fat but wether there's excessive fat in your body or not since you can still be thin and healthy even if your consumed lot of nuts, avocados, olives, seeds, salmon ... because the body makes its own body and most of the excessive body fat overweight have doesn't come from dietary fat

Danny

#8 KnowShow

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:50 AM

[quote name='Danny89' date='Jun 28 2006, 01:14 AM' post='1195943']
[quote name='KnowShow' post='1195063' date='Jun 27 2006, 01:43 PM']
hmmm interesting. All I know is that my diet consists of ALOT of fat. but good fat. Olive oil, brazilian nuts, maguro sashimi, raw egg yolks. I also have almost no fat on my body. I actually really want to test my body fat % because I think it may be too low.[/quote]

Body fat is so misleading
If you think you may have too low fat % because of what you see when you look in the mirror then you've probably too much body fat
In other words skinny people are fat
When you have body fat level that are 10% you can't really tell except for muscle definition but body mass, the mass which makes your body which makes what other people will see when they look at your body is muscle
Our body is made of muscle and covered in a layer of fat so low fat levels can't really make a person skinny or light only low muscles levels can and therefore higher fat levels

I kind of see what you are saying. But when I say that I have almost no fat on my body, I mean just what I said. But thanks for telling me what my body is like.

#9 Danny©

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:26 AM

QUOTE

I kind of see what you are saying. But when I say that I have almost no fat on my body, I mean just what I said. But thanks for telling me what my body is like.


You can't really see a lack of fat in your body because when you see yourself skinny and bony is just lack of muscle. When you have your fat % measured let us know what it is and if it is really like 4% or 5% I will admit I was dead wrong

Danny

#10 Susan1967

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE(T∑PLØ @ Jun 25 2006, 05:29 PM) View Post

if sebum is caused by the same stuff as body fat in fat people, then we should treat it the exact same way: by limiting how many calories we consume.



That theory doesn't hold.

And I was a tiny, skinny 60lb seventh grader getting acne. As a young adult, I weighed barely 100lbs yet still got acne. Just how skinny do you have to be to clear up?

One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

#11 KnowShow

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 11:26 AM) View Post

QUOTE

I kind of see what you are saying. But when I say that I have almost no fat on my body, I mean just what I said. But thanks for telling me what my body is like.


You can't really see a lack of fat in your body because when you see yourself skinny and bony is just lack of muscle. When you have your fat % measured let us know what it is and if it is really like 4% or 5% I will admit I was dead wrong

Danny


kid. im all fucking muscle. I can't even pinch any fat on my body. Shut up


#12 Marrakech

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 12:53 AM) View Post

so the point is not decreasing body fat or dietary fat but properly breaking down of subcutaneous fat deposits

Danny




And that would be HOW? tongue.gif

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#13 bryan

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:23 PM

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 12:53 AM) View Post

It's not that simple. Sebum excess is subcutaneous fat which has not been broken down properly so it doesn't go back to circulation and buil up in the sweating glands. Subcutaneous fat unlike the damn visceral fat has a turnover where the excess is broken down and goes back to blood stream. The problem with sebum build up is a lack of properly breaking down of fat deposits.

Of course fat is vital so you can't eliminate visceral fat or subcutaneou fat but you can have healthy levels of them. I have low body fat levels but still oil builds up in my glands so the point is not decreasing body fat or dietary fat but properly breaking down of subcutaneous fat deposits


Come on, Danny, that's a load of crap. Get a grip, man. Sebaceous glands are independent entities whose direct function is to manufacture lipids (sebum) to deposit onto the skin's surface.

Bryan

#14 Danny©

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:32 PM

QUOTE(bryan @ Jun 28 2006, 07:23 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 12:53 AM) View Post

It's not that simple. Sebum excess is subcutaneous fat which has not been broken down properly so it doesn't go back to circulation and buil up in the sweating glands. Subcutaneous fat unlike the damn visceral fat has a turnover where the excess is broken down and goes back to blood stream. The problem with sebum build up is a lack of properly breaking down of fat deposits.

Of course fat is vital so you can't eliminate visceral fat or subcutaneou fat but you can have healthy levels of them. I have low body fat levels but still oil builds up in my glands so the point is not decreasing body fat or dietary fat but properly breaking down of subcutaneous fat deposits


Come on, Danny, that's a load of crap. Get a grip, man. Sebaceous glands are independent entities whose direct function is to manufacture lipids (sebum) to deposit onto the skin's surface.

Bryan


But I was talking of fat build up within the glands. The skin is also the most important secondary way of elimination which means that works also as an excretory organ when there's a build up. The sebaceus gland not only produce fat but produce excess fat the moment they're used as excretive canals
That's the link between to much oil and androgen hormone since are androgen hormone to inhibit the function of coenzime A

Danny

#15 Danny©

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE(Marrakech @ Jun 28 2006, 06:27 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 12:53 AM) View Post

so the point is not decreasing body fat or dietary fat but properly breaking down of subcutaneous fat deposits

Danny



And that would be HOW? tongue.gif


Not an easy way because it brings us back to what we already know: excess of androgen hormones, IGF-1, chronically high insulin levels, glycemic roller coasters which affect the excess build up of sebum in the gland and also the obstruction of the gland via cell aggregation. But it's not like hormone increase build up of oils because of whatever mechanism of stimulation of the gland but because the inhibit those enzyme that would prevent the excess release of oil from the gland

Danny

#16 bryan

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:39 PM

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 09:32 PM) View Post

But I was talking of fat build up within the glands.


So was I.

QUOTE
The skin is also the most important secondary way of elimination which means that works also as an excretory organ when there's a build up. The sebaceus gland not only produce fat but produce excess fat the moment they're used as excretive canals


But deliberately-made sebum from the sebaceous glands comprises the VAST MAJORITY of the fat that oozes onto the skin surface, so I don't see that you really have any real point to make here.

Bryan


#17 Susan1967

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:45 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebaceous_glands

The sebaceous glands are glands found in the skin of mammals. They secrete an oily substance called sebum (Latin, meaning fat or tallow) that is made of fat (lipids) and the debris of dead fat-producing cells. These glands exist in humans throughout the skin except in the palms of the hands and soles of the feet. Sebum acts to protect and waterproof hair and skin, and keep them from becoming dry, brittle, and cracked. It can also inhibit the growth of microorganisms on skin.

Sebaceous glands can usually be found in hair-covered areas where they are connected to hair follicles to deposit sebum on the hairs, and bring it to the skin surface along the hair shaft. The structure consisting of hair, hair follicle and sebaceous gland is also known as pilosebaceous unit. Sebaceous glands are also found in non haired areas of lips, eyelids, penis, labia minora and nipples; here the sebum reaches the surface through ducts. In the glands, sebum is produced within specialized cells and is released as these cells burst; sebaceous glands are thus classified as holocrine glands.

Sebum is odorless, but its bacterial breakdown can produce odors. Sebum is the cause of some people experiencing "oily" hair if it is not washed for several days. Earwax is partly sebum, as is mucopurulent discharge, the dry substance accumulating in the corners of the eye after sleeping.

The composition of sebum varies from species to species; in humans, the lipid content consists of about 25% wax monoesters, 41% triglycerides, 16% free fatty acids, and 12% squalene. [1]
The activity of the sebaceous glands increases during puberty because of heightened levels of androgens.




I don't see anything in the definition that says it's body fat oozing out our pores...

#18 Danny©

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE(bryan @ Jun 28 2006, 09:39 PM) View Post

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 09:32 PM) View Post

But I was talking of fat build up within the glands.


So was I.

QUOTE
The skin is also the most important secondary way of elimination which means that works also as an excretory organ when there's a build up. The sebaceus gland not only produce fat but produce excess fat the moment they're used as excretive canals


But deliberately-made sebum from the sebaceous glands comprises the VAST MAJORITY of the fat that oozes onto the skin surface, so I don't see that you really have any real point to make here.

Bryan


The vast majority doesn't meal ALL
You can see that there's no connection between androgen hormone and stimulation of the sebaceous gland but a correlationg between androgen hormones and the inhibition of coenzyme necessary to avoid the build up of sebum. It works as in ZAG synthesis, if enough ZAG is synthetized the pores can't clog and if enough coenzyme-a is synthedized there can't be an excess of skin oils

See this for example: (I read that on pubmed sometime ago and I though it was a study but I see it's more an hypothesis which is baked up but some facts, my mistake) coenzyme-a correlation

Now I may be have misunderstood the researches because of language limitation but I remembered that coenzyme-a could have an effect on the sebum produced by the gland but by on the free fatty acids and cholesterolic substances used in sebum production, so the fatty deposits in the hyperdermins would still affect the overproduction of sebum when there's a lack of coenzyme-a
But I may be wrong and actually coenzyme-a affect the fatty deposits within the sebaceous gland

There's still a correlation between the author hypothesis because an adequate circulating amount of coenzyme-a would improve lipid metabolism all over the body hence preventing to an extent visceral fat deposits

I'm also sure that the same paper discussed the secondary function of sebaceous glands as excretatory means of substances produced by the body and not only by the sebaceous gland itself.

Ignore what I said I can't find the paper so I have no proofs right now but have a look at the correlation between fatty acids breakdown, androgen hormones and overproduction of skin oils

Danny

#19 Dingo Jellybean

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:52 PM

Honestly, I don't really see sebum as another form of body fat. While it is true that sebum is composed of lipids, I've ate high fat meals compared with high carb meals and my skin is more oily with high carb meals.
- My website to help people with acne. Generally for those mild to moderate.

#20 bryan

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE(Danny89 @ Jun 28 2006, 11:40 PM) View Post

See this for example: (I read that on pubmed sometime ago and I though it was a study but I see it's more an hypothesis which is baked up but some facts, my mistake) coenzyme-a correlation


I knew even before I clicked on that link that it was going to be about that goofy acne/pantothenic acid theory! smile.gif Sorry, Danny, but you need a lot more than that to convince anybody that sebum is the same as ordinary body fat.

Bryan