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#1 MoeMentum

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 08:52 PM

I dont get why this is not a topic of a larger discussion.
I think the latest research on accutane is something that should be known by all interested in the drug.

Anyways, I am only a click away from begining a course of low dose accutane.
Somewhere between 2.5mg-10mg per day for up to 6 months.
I will probly begin with 1mg per day for the first month, judge results....
Then 2 mg per day for a month......judge results
5mg per day,etc until I notice improvement, upon which time I will remain at the current dose for the remainder of the 6 months, where upon I will begin to decrease the amount of accutane each month until results indicate otherwise.
A good measurement for me will be just at the point my lips begin to become dry and thats it....no more.
Ahhh, fun with science:)

Definitely a work in progress.
If I decide to go through with it.



Articles worthy of notice.



Low Dose, High Rates of Success

Ultra-low dose isotretinoin is all many acne patients need

San Francisco - Low and ultra-low doses of isotretinoin are an effective therapy for many acne patients. This safer and cheaper solution can even be used continuously.

Gerd Plewig, M.D., believes that the doses of isotretinoin typically used in the United States and Europe are far too high. For many patients, as little as 2.5 mg twice a week, which he describes as "a drop of rain on a dusty road" is adequate.

Dermatologists all over the world already are treating some patients continuously with low doses of isotretinoin, according to Dr. Plewig, director, dermatology and allergy clinic, Ludwig-Maximilian University in Munich.

"When you talk to doctors in this country and other countries of the world, they use 10 mg twice a week or three times a week, which is a low or ultra-low dose. But nobody ever bothered to show and demonstrate that it works," he said. Thus, he and his team performed two clinical trials to assess its efficacy.

Study Spotlights Low Dosing In the first trial, 28 patients with acne conglobata and inflammatory acne took a low dose of isotretinoin: 20 mg/kg, 10 mg/kg, or 0.5 mg/kg body weight daily for six months. In the second study, 11 acne patients took an ultra low dose of isotretinoin: 2.5 mg to 5 mg daily or 2.5 mg twice a week for six months. Both trials involved multiple endpoints, including clinical grading, lesion counts, counts of follicular filaments (believed to be precursors to lesions), bacterial colonization, patients' opinion of seborrhea levels, two objective measurements of sebum levels (Sebutape and Bentonite clay), qualitative assessment of sebum using high power, thin layer chromatography, and biopsies to assess size and configuration of sebaceous glands.

Trials Yield Significant Improvement Results of the first trial in which low doses of isotretinoin were used revealed significant improvements in all parameters tested. Numbers of follicular filaments, and lesions dropped, as did levels of bacteria and sebum. Sebaceous glands shrank, as well.

At the end of the second study, which investigated ultra-low doses of isotretinoin, efficacy was maintained on many of the parameters. There were significant reductions in numbers of active lesions and follicular filaments as well as objective measures of sebum levels. Patients' ratings of seborrhea improved, and levels of P. acnes on the skin diminished.

"The endpoint or the lowest point of a retinoid being effective for the treatment of seborrhea, persistent low grade acne, or maintenance therapy for patients with bad acne probably is around 2.5 mg or 2 mg, or maybe even 1.5 mg," Dr. Plewig said.

The best candidates for low and ultra-low doses isotretinoin therapy, Dr. Plewig said, include patients with severe acne who were controlled with higher doses and require a lower-dose maintenance therapy, individuals whose facial acne has persisted from adolescence into adulthood, and people with sebaceous gland hyperplasia. "Some patients come only because of their oiliness. ... For these patients, I think the low or ultra-low dose is very good, and it's cheap, too," he said.

Severe Patients Still Receive Low Doses Dr. Plewig keeps doses of isotretinoin relatively low in patients with severe acne. "I pretreat patients with severe inflammatory acne with systemic corticosteroids to begin with...about 1 mg/kg body weight for about seven to 14 days, taper it off, and then give an antibiotic, usually an erythromycin, a macrolide," he said. "And then I start with the isotretinoin [0.2 mg/kg to 0.4 mg/kg body weight]. It is so much better. We used to start immediately with isotretinoin or tried antibiotics, but often it takes too long, the patients are miserable, and it is so much better for them because you can have a faster final result, a better final result with cooling down the skin first, then adding your active treatment."

Continuous Use Offers Versatility A great benefit of using lower doses of isotretinoin is that it can be used continuously. There are other important advantages, as well. "In terms of pharmacoeconomics, it is cheaper to use lower doses, it is better tolerated by patients, has fewer side effects, fewer laboratory abnormalities, and of course the patients like it when they have continuous elegant treatment," Dr. Plewig said.

Despite the safer side-effect profile with low-dose isotretinoin, Dr. Plewig emphasized that, at any dose, the drug should still be considered teratogenic and be used with great caution in women of childbearing age.

http://www.dermatolo...il.jsp?id=65528

******
Changing dosing patterns Dosing patterns have become quite varied among dermatologists. While most still use the label guidance of 1 mg per kilogram per day for about five months, there is a growing acceptance of lower dosing regimens.

"The Europeans always used lower doses," says Dr. Plewig. "Even the 1 mg is too high. The usual dose (in Europe) is 0.5 or less; sometimes we use 0.2 mg. Although we sometimes treat for a longer period."

"I'm a strong believer that low -dose Accutane is the way to go," says Craig G. Burkhart, M.D., a clinical professor of dermatology at the Medical College of Ohio. "We use between 10 and 20 mg per day and that's all we use. I don't care if the guy is 350 pounds, the most he'll get is 20 mg a day."



However, there are concerns over the low dose method....
"Dr. Maddin has other concerns. "To me, the only problem in low dosing is that it increases the risk of pregnancy." He says that since the patient is on the drug for a longer period of time and duration, there is a greater likelihood that a breakdown in pregnancy prevention will occur. "

Thats it?!!!
Sheesh.


A relevant staement on the wonders of low dose accutane on rosacea:

"As for accutane side effects, my take is that these are only an issue
at standard dosages,(40-80mg) except that it is very clear that women must
never get pregnant on ANY dose of accutane. A leading rosacea
researcher even mentioned to me in a private communication that he
does not do usual blood work at low dosages, and indeed feels
long-term, low-dose accutane treatment is safer than long-term use of
systemic antibiotics. I plan to continue current regimen for at least
6 months, and possibly a year depending how it goes. There is
evidence that symptoms remain in remission after accutane is stopped.


Another low dose study:

Low dose accutane for Acne
Abstract below. I find the impact of low-dose accutane on the previous scarring very interesting.

Int J Clin Pharmacol Res. 2003;23(2-3):41-6.
Low-dose schema of isotretinoin in acne vulgaris.
Mandekou-Lefaki I, Delli F, Teknetzis A, Euthimiadou R, KarakatsanisG.
In severe papulopustular and in nodulocystic/conglobate acne, oral isotretinoin is the treatment of choice. It is also required forpatients with moderate to severe acne, especially when acne scars start to occur A new therapeutic approach consists of a low-dose regimen of isotretinoin. We performed a comparative study of high-and low-dose schemas of isotretinoin per os for the treatment of acne. The purpose of this study was to assess the therapeutic effect and tolerability of low doses of isotretinoin in the treatment ofacne vulgaris and compare low-dose with high-dose regimens. Sixty-four patients (35 women and 29 men) with different types and grades of acne vulgaris were divided into two treatment groups of 32patients, in a trial that compared a low dose of 0.15-0.40 mg/kg perday with a high dose of 0.5-1.0 mg/kg per day. These regimens were analyzed with reference to clinical history of acne, baseline investigations, dose and response to isotretinoin, clinical and laboratory adverse effects, relapses and cost of therapy. The mean success rate of the low-dose schema was 69%. The total dose up to120 mg/kg should be followed for optimal results (success rate of91%) and avoidance of relapses. The low-dose schema produced fewer adverse effects and offered a very beneficial effect on pre-existings carring. Our results confirm the beneficial effect of the low-dose schema. We recommend a total dose > or = 120 mg/kg, as this therapeutic regimen of isotretinoin has proven to be the mostsuccessful in preventing relapses and scarring.


Continued.....


KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#2 miamicaness

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:03 PM

For the best chance at long term/permanent remission you need greater than 100mg/kg. You will certainly be at least temporarily cured of the disease with lower dosages. People are now taking a higher dose because it is associated with a better chance of permanent remission. Of course, with a higher dose comes higher side effects. Even still, a dose of around .5mg/kg/day will result in a better than 60% remission for at least a year.

#3 MoeMentum

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 10:41 PM

The more Accutane you take, the greater the chance you will be cured. In clinical studies comparing dosages of 10, 40 and 80 milligrams daily, all 3 dosages resulted in initial clearing of acne. disease but there was a greater need for re-treatment with the smaller doses (about 40, 20, and 10% of the patients, respectively, required a second course of therapy).

Unfortunately, side effects depend on the dose also. At the lowest doses, there are almost no side effects at all. At the highest, everyone get rather nasty side effects. The dose need to be adjusted to strike a balance between effectiveness and side effects.

The common side effects of Accutane result from the drug decreasing the amount of oil produced by the bodies oil glands. The most important oil glands are in the skin (Sebaceous glands), but other oil glands in the body are affected and are the reason for the side effects the drug produces.

Side effects that are common are listed here. Frequency-the percent of people who get the particular side effect is listed in parenthesis. Chapped lips (90%, countered by a using Vaseline as a moisturizer and taking 800 IU of Vitamin E daily), Intestinal symptoms (5%), Urinary symptoms (5%), Dry skin and itching (80%), Headache (5%), Rash (7%), Decreased night vision (<1%, occurs when Accutane pushes out Vitamin A from the eye-we think this can be reversed by eating carrots), Dryness of nose, mild nosebleed (80%, helped by "AYR nasal gel"), Temporary hair thinning (10%), Irritation of the eyelids and eyes (40%), Joint and muscle pains (15%), Increased sensitivity to sun (5%), Depression, thoughts of suicide (<1%).

Accutane may increase the level of blood fats, sometimes to risky levels. Occasionally it may affect the liver. That's why regular blood tests are necessary when you are taking Accutane; these tests must be done when you have fasted for 12 hours (no breakfast), so that the blood fat determinations are reliable. If they are done without fasting and are completely normal, that's OK too.

Accutane rarely causes depression and thoughts of suicide. If this were to occur stop the medicine and immediately and call your physician. Avoid extremely vigorous exercise, as you tend to develop aches.

Take the medicine with food, you can take the entire daily dose with supper, this increases the absorption of the medicine. An alternative use of Accutane is the low dose treatment. This avoids most of the side effects, but the effect doesn’t last as long as the full dose.
http://www.docderm.c...on/accutane.htm



*********
Low-Dose Accutane Good for Mild Acne
HEALTH NEWS BITE
Monday, May 15, 2006

People suffering from mild cases of acne can benefit significantly from small doses of Accutane and other tretinoin-based acne treatments, a new study finds. Conducted by researchers at Israel's Soroka University, the study found that low-dose Accutane was also an effective means of reducing the side effects of inflammation and dryness that have been associated with Accutane in past research. For the purposes of the study, "low-dose" was defined as 20 milligrams of Accutane daily over the course of six months. At that dosage, researchers found that a remarkable 95% of patients experienced either complete remission of their acne or significant improvement at minimum.
http://www.lifescrip...r_mild_acne.asp



********
Oral isotretinoin as part of the treatment of cutaneous aging.

Hernandez-Perez E, Khawaja HA, Alvarez TY.

Center for Dermatology and Cosmetic Surgery, San Salvador, El Salvador. enrimar@ejje.com

BACKGROUND: A number of drugs have been used to prevent aging changes. However, studies of oral isotretinoin, the commonly used acne drug, as an antiaging drug are lacking. OBJECTIVE: To determine improvement in cutaneous aging utilizing oral isotretinoin combined with different procedures of facial rejuvenation. METHODS: Sixty patients ranging in age from 35 to 65 years, in whom additional modalities of rejuvenation were also used, were randomly assigned to receive treatment with oral isotretinoin (10-20 mg three times a week for 2 months, group A). Their results were compared with 60 patients who had undergone the same surgical procedures but with no oral isotretinoin (group . RESULTS: All patients treated with oral isotretinoin noted improvement in wrinkles, thickness and color of the skin, size of pores, skin elasticity, tone, and reduction in pigmented lesions and mottled hyperpigmentation. A statistically significant difference was found in the improvement of group A (Wilcoxon test <0.01). Using minimal amounts of this drug, the side effects were practically negligible. CONCLUSION: Utilizing various procedures with oral isotretinoin allowed us to improve the effects of cutaneous aging. Our results using isotretinoin in these cases have been satisfactory. We believe that this is one of the first reports of the use of oral isotretinoin in intrinsic and photoaged skin.

Publication Types:



Low-dose isotretinoin in the treatment of acne vulgaris.

Amichai B, Shemer A, Grunwald MH.

Huzot Clinic of Clalit Health Services, Ashkelon, Israel.

BACKGROUND: The efficacy of isotretinoin at 0.5 to 1.0 mg/kg per day in the treatment of acne is well established and considered safe, although it is sometimes not easily tolerated because of its cutaneous side effects. OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy of low-dose isotretinoin in the treatment of acne. METHODS: In this prospective, noncomparative, open-label study, 638 patients, both male and female, with moderate acne were enrolled and treated with isotretinoin at 20 mg/d (approximately 0.3-0.4 mg/kg per day) for 6 months. The patients were divided into two age groups: 12 to 20 and 21 to 35 years old. Patients were evaluated at 2-month intervals by means of clinical and laboratory examinations. A 4-year follow-up was also carried out. RESULTS: At the end of the treatment phase, good results were observed in 94.8% of the patients aged 12 to 20 years, and in 92.6% of the patients aged 21 to 35 years. Failure of the treatment occurred in 5.2% and 7.4% of the two groups, respectively. Twenty-one patients dropped out of the study because of lack of compliance, and another patient discontinued participation because of a laboratory side effect. During the 4-year follow-up period, relapses of the acne occurred in 3.9% of the patients aged 12 to 20 years and in 5.9% of the patients aged 21 to 35 years. Elevated serum lipid levels (up to 20% higher than the upper limit of normal value) were found in 4.2% of the patients and abnormal (<twice the upper limit of normal values) liver tests were observed in 4.8%. LIMITATIONS: This was a noncomparative, open-label study. CONCLUSION: Six months of treatment with low-dose isotretinoin (20 mg/d) was found to be effective in the treatment of moderate acne, with a low incidence of severe side effects and at a lower cost than higher doses.

PMID: 16546586 [PubMed - in process]


Very low dose isotretinoin is effective in controlling seborrhea.

Geissler SE, Michelsen S, Plewig G.

Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Ludwig-Maximilian-University, Munich.

BACKGROUND: Excessive seborrhea, coarse-pored skin, minimal acne and oily scalp hair comprise a well-known clinical entity. It causes considerable concern, has social impact, and affects the quality of life in some individuals. Some patients seek treatment for seborrhea. No effective topical sebosuppressive medication is available. Oral isotretinoin is the only remedy for men. In women, oral isotretinoin is the most effective remedy, followed by antiandrogens. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Eleven patients in three groups were treated for 6 months with very low dose isotretinoin. The influence on seborrhea was measured during oral treatment with 5 mg/d, 2.5 mg/d, or 2.5 mg 3x weekly. RESULTS: Sebum production, measured with Sebutape, was reduced by up to 64%. Acne lesions regressed by as much as 84%. Follicular filaments were reduced by 66%. Microcomedones were reduced on average up to 86%. Quantitative bacteriology showed a reduction of Propionibacterium acnes but no increase of Staphylococcus epidermidis. Biopsies revealed a 51% reduction in sebaceous gland size. With Bentonite, a reduction of lipids was demonstrated with 2.5 and 5 mg isotretinoin/d but not with 2.5 mg 3x weekly. There was a shift within the lipid fractions: triglycerides dominated, followed by squalenes and free fatty acids. CONCLUSIONS: Good results were achieved in all patients. The small number of patients did not permit a statistical analysis of the three isotretinoin doses studied, but there was a tendency toward better results with the two higher doses.

PMID: 16285647 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Low dose isotretinoin combined with tretinoin is effective to correct abnormalities of acne.

Plewig G, Dressel H, Pfleger M, Michelsen S, Kligman AM.

Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Ludwig-Maximilian-University Munich, Germany. Gerd.Plewig@derma.med.uni-muenchen.de

BACKGROUND: Isotretinoin is well known in the therapy of acne papulopustulosa and acne conglobata. No study has investigated the pathophysiological changes of the skin of acne patients, especially when low dose oral isotretinoin is given in combination with topical tretinoin. PATIENTS AND METHODS: 28 patients were treated for 6 months with oral isotretinoin. In the acne conglobata group (A-C) patients were treated with 10 mg (Group A) or 20 mg isotretinoin (Groups B, C) in combination with topical 0.05% tretinoin cream. Group C was treated the first 2 weeks with 0.05% betamethasone valerate cream instead of tretinoin cream. In the acne papulopustulosa group, the patients received 0.5 mg isotretinoin/kg bodyweight and 0.05% tretinoin cream, either alone (Group E), or with oral methylprednisolone during induction (Group D). RESULTS: Acne conglobata--A reduction of inflammatory lesion by 87-94% and of non-inflammatory lesions by 81-88% was achieved (Groups A-C). A reduction of sebaceous gland size by 35-58%, sebum production by 90-95%, follicular keratinization by 55-70% and Propionibacteria by 33-73% was seen (Groups B and C better than Group A). In Group A the amount of lipids was only reduced by 6%, in Group B by 35% and in Group C by 40%. Acne papulopustulosa--Sebum excretion rate and follicular keratinization were reduced in Group D by 89% and 50% respectively, with isotretinoin alone by 94% and 53%. The amount of lipids was reduced in Group D by 40% and in Group E by 21%. CONCLUSIONS: Because of the efficacy and cost-benefit relationship of isotretinoin in the treatment of acne compared to other therapeutic approaches, further use low dose isotretinoin in the described settings seems to justified.



Some statements made from members on other forums:

"Anyways....my skin was broken out the first few weeks and has calmed down a bit since then. My dermatologist (and me!) has noticed improvement in my skin since the end of the 10 mg month. Even he said "isn't it amazing how even a low dose works so well?".






KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#4 MoeMentum

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE(miamicaness @ Jun 22 2006, 08:03 PM) View Post

For the best chance at long term/permanent remission you need greater than 100mg/kg. You will certainly be at least temporarily cured of the disease with lower dosages. People are now taking a higher dose because it is associated with a better chance of permanent remission. Of course, with a higher dose comes higher side effects. Even still, a dose of around .5mg/kg/day will result in a better than 60% remission for at least a year.


I understand what you are suggesting.

However, there is still a 40% chance of permanent remission with people who were treated with only 10mg per day!
There definintely is a balance that can be found with intelligence and attentive watchfulness to guide ones dosage accordingly along the way.
Not just jumping onto what a particular Doc has read out of some outdated work book:)

Each to their own I guess, but in my mind it is sooooo worth it to start with a low dose, even if you have to take it for longer periods of time.
Everything I have found so far indicates that the positive benfits begin to rapidly deteriorate in favour of severely increased negative side effects once a certain dosage has been reached.

Personaly I think that most doctors dont know what they are doing with regards to individual treatments.
Probly because the time and care neccessary to moderate the optimal dose over an extended period of time for each patient would take too much time.


IMO, I think people should at the very least be aware of this information before starting to make their own balanced decision between an ideal positive outcome and the potential for enduring unneccessary negative side effects.

This information has completely changed my perception for what is possible and desirability.

If theres a moral to the story I guess its that you can always take more, if less dont work.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#5 DanMan1

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 22 2006, 09:54 PM) View Post

QUOTE(miamicaness @ Jun 22 2006, 08:03 PM) View Post

For the best chance at long term/permanent remission you need greater than 100mg/kg. You will certainly be at least temporarily cured of the disease with lower dosages. People are now taking a higher dose because it is associated with a better chance of permanent remission. Of course, with a higher dose comes higher side effects. Even still, a dose of around .5mg/kg/day will result in a better than 60% remission for at least a year.


I understand what you are suggesting.

However, there is still a 40% chance of permanent remission with people who were treated with only 10mg per day!
There definintely is a balance that can be found with intelligence and attentive watchfulness to guide ones dosage accordingly along the way.
Not just jumping onto what a particular Doc has read out of some outdated work book:)

Each to their own I guess, but in my mind it is sooooo worth it to start with a low dose, even if you have to take it for longer periods of time.
Everything I have found so far indicates that the positive benfits begin to rapidly deteriorate in favour of severely increased negative side effects once a certain dosage has been reached.

Personaly I think that most doctors dont know what they are doing with regards to individual treatments.
Probly because the time and care neccessary to moderate the optimal dose over an extended period of time for each patient would take too much time.


IMO, I think people should at the very least be aware of this information before starting to make their own balanced decision between an ideal positive outcome and the potential for enduring unneccessary negative side effects.

This information has completely changed my perception for what is possible and desirability.

If theres a moral to the story I guess its that you can always take more, if less dont work.


DUDE I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

ive been telling this to my parents all along....
I say you know let me go on low dose for 2 years until im done with this stage in my life, its a hassle putting shit on your face everyday... u know

thanks for bringing this up,

its just the whole low dose thing im down to do it, but if you can... please, can you pm me with some sites that sell accutane w/o prescription... cause im pretty sure docotors will be against this

or how are you getting you accutane... thanks alott man




#6 MoeMentum

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 12:02 AM

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 22 2006, 09:54 PM) View Post

QUOTE(miamicaness @ Jun 22 2006, 08:03 PM) View Post

For the best chance at long term/permanent remission you need greater than 100mg/kg. You will certainly be at least temporarily cured of the disease with lower dosages. People are now taking a higher dose because it is associated with a better chance of permanent remission. Of course, with a higher dose comes higher side effects. Even still, a dose of around .5mg/kg/day will result in a better than 60% remission for at least a year.


I understand what you are suggesting.

However, there is still a 40% chance of permanent remission with people who were treated with only 10mg per day!



My mistake, sorry....a 60% chance of permanent remission!

Hey Dan, yes, I cant believe how long I have not let myself go on accutane only because of the horror stories that I have heard and how unbalanced the positives to the negatives were.

And now I find out all this info and studies that have been done with the success of low dose accutane treatment.....Dam!!!

I could have used this info about 15 years ago.

Live and learn.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#7 DanMan1

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 01:12 AM

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 22 2006, 11:02 PM) View Post

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 22 2006, 09:54 PM) View Post

QUOTE(miamicaness @ Jun 22 2006, 08:03 PM) View Post

For the best chance at long term/permanent remission you need greater than 100mg/kg. You will certainly be at least temporarily cured of the disease with lower dosages. People are now taking a higher dose because it is associated with a better chance of permanent remission. Of course, with a higher dose comes higher side effects. Even still, a dose of around .5mg/kg/day will result in a better than 60% remission for at least a year.


I understand what you are suggesting.

However, there is still a 40% chance of permanent remission with people who were treated with only 10mg per day!



My mistake, sorry....a 60% chance of permanent remission!

Hey Dan, yes, I cant believe how long I have not let myself go on accutane only because of the horror stories that I have heard and how unbalanced the positives to the negatives were.

And now I find out all this info and studies that have been done with the success of low dose accutane treatment.....Dam!!!

I could have used this info about 15 years ago.

Live and learn.


i understand...

just wanted to know where are you getting your accutane from?


#8 MoeMentum

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 02:15 AM

From my Doctor.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#9 DanMan1

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:33 PM

does this mean about 10 mg a day will relieve the acne and keep it non existant? as long as you keep taking it?

#10 MoeMentum

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE(DanMan1 @ Jun 27 2006, 02:33 PM) View Post

does this mean about 10 mg a day will relieve the acne and keep it non existant? as long as you keep taking it?

Not exactly sure what statement you are refering to in particular, in GENERAL, studies have shown in many cases that not only will 10mg for up to 6 months (sometimes less) will keep acne at bay, but have been shown to give permanent remission up to 60% as comapred to those at higher doses of 80mg and higher having as much as 90% complete remission.

Doses as low as 2.5 mg and even 1mg per day have been used on a continual basis to keep acne at bay.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#11 DanMan1

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 27 2006, 04:14 PM) View Post

QUOTE(DanMan1 @ Jun 27 2006, 02:33 PM) View Post

does this mean about 10 mg a day will relieve the acne and keep it non existant? as long as you keep taking it?

Not exactly sure what statement you are refering to in particular, in GENERAL, studies have shown in many cases that not only will 10mg for up to 6 months (sometimes less) will keep acne at bay, but have been shown to give permanent remission up to 60% as comapred to those at higher doses of 80mg and higher having as much as 90% complete remission.

Doses as low as 2.5 mg and even 1mg per day have been used on a continual basis to keep acne at bay.


allright thanks by at bay... you mean? no new acne lesions? right?

so if you had a 10 mg pill u would take one of those every 4 days and youd be set to go?

since there are no pills 2.5 mg...

#12 MoeMentum

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:27 PM

Dan my man, read all of the articles in this thread and you will know just as much as me if not more.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#13 DanMan1

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE(MoeMentum @ Jun 27 2006, 08:27 PM) View Post

Dan my man, read all of the articles in this thread and you will know just as much as me if not more.


ok kool man thanks alott... hopefully ill get everything to work

theese topicals are a hassle... hate it, so time consuming and embarrasing having a shiny and red face...
people always ask me whys your face shiny are you sweating? im sick of it!

#14 happygilmore

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 03:54 AM

Hi DanMan1

Just to let you know I have just started what will be a long term low dose accutane treatment. I am starting on 20mg a day for 1-2 months and then will decrease my dose after that to 10mg for 1-2 months and then will look at reducing the dose to as low as I can go while still having clear oil free skin.

Any questions please ask.
Happy

#15 niccolo

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:53 AM

yep. I know about this treatment, saw a couple of articles about it on the net.

My derm also told me about this. That the new trend was to start at/or administer low doses, since they saw just as much improvement with the higher doses except with lessened side effects for mild-moderate acne.

I am currently on a low dose right now 20mg a day. After 2 months, i go back to my derm for an assessment of my acne. He said that, if he sees improvement, he'll keep me on that dose for the remainder of the 6 month course.

#16 MoeMentum

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:36 AM

QUOTE(niccolo @ Jun 28 2006, 07:53 AM) View Post

yep. I know about this treatment, saw a couple of articles about it on the net.

My derm also told me about this. That the new trend was to start at/or administer low doses, since they saw just as much improvement with the higher doses except with lessened side effects for mild-moderate acne.

I am currently on a low dose right now 20mg a day. After 2 months, i go back to my derm for an assessment of my acne. He said that, if he sees improvement, he'll keep me on that dose for the remainder of the 6 month course.

Sounds about right.
Good luck and keep us updated.
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#17 Beauty Bot

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:08 AM

QUOTE(DanMan1 @ Jun 23 2006, 01:11 AM) View Post
DUDE I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!


we all love him wink.gif

Thank you for the info Moe!!! I'm hoping that after my 6 month course (on 40mg/day) my doc will let me continue on a very low dose (lowest here is 10mg so maybe every other day).

I want to be off Diane BC so if this low dose thing works then I'll be super happy.... plus I'd love to have my hair not greasy after only 12 hours!

The only thing I wouldn't want is to have to keep doing blood tests, they are a pain to get to..... but at least they are free in Canada.

Anyway, thanks again!

For every person who regrets taking Accutane, God kills a kitten.

Did they ever think that maybe their crazy made them crazy?!?!

Products: labello lip balm, Spectro jel, Dove sensitive skin soap, complex 15 face cream, Fruit of the Earth 100% aloe vera gel, everydayminerals.com makeup, Eufora hair products
MY ACCUTANE LOG
Status: CLEAR (on 10mg/day Accutane 2011) Had mod/sev & cystic acne for 16 years until tane.

#18 MoeMentum

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE(finallymejess @ Jun 28 2006, 10:08 AM) View Post

QUOTE(DanMan1 @ Jun 23 2006, 01:11 AM) View Post
DUDE I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!


The only thing I wouldn't want is to have to keep doing blood tests, they are a pain to get to..... but at least they are free in Canada.

Anyway, thanks again!


Your welcome.
Yeah, they're free, but dam, I still dont like them.
Maybe I'm just wierd, but for some strange reason I can't get over this feeling that blood is supposed to stay *in* the body. eusa_shifty.gif

Continued Goodluck 2U
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus

#19 mskitty

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:23 PM

Thanks for the wonderful articles!

When I move at the end of the summer, I plan on bringing these to my new doc in hopes of 'tane for my insanely oily skin. it's the only thing thats ever helped me feel normal. period!
26 year old female dealing with hormonal and comedonal acne. Jumping on the accutane wagon AGAIN soon.

#20 MoeMentum

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 02:42 AM

QUOTE(mskitty @ Jun 28 2006, 09:23 PM) View Post

Thanks for the wonderful articles!

When I move at the end of the summer, I plan on bringing these to my new doc in hopes of 'tane for my insanely oily skin. it's the only thing thats ever helped me feel normal. period!

Your welcome, I have suggested it to others as well to actually print out some of thes studies to show others who may hold influence over their actions.
As well, first and foremost, if you have done your homework, you should be able to awnser any question someone asks you about accutane, low dose or otherwise.
Having this knowledge, these studies, and a firm conclusion that youa re not going into your doctors to "debate" whether or not you should go on Accutane, but that you have come to a firm decison that this is what you ARE going to do.
If you go in as an adult(you can make your own *rational* decisions)there is no reason your Doctor should say no.
Unless of course you have some medical history.

I guarantee you that unless your Doc has just recently finished their schooling they will not be aware of these new studies.

I see too many people bowing down to their Doctors wishes, old routines, or in some cases plain laziness.
Although I agree with this if the neccessary homework and understanding of the posible side effects are not known.
Again, you should be able to awnser just about any question you are asked on accutane, because there really isn't alot to it.


Anyways, kind of went off on a rant there.
Good luck Mskitty smile.gif
KNOWLEDGE PREVENTS ACNE!!!

With great skin care, let us....Remember our individuality.
Always Calibrate/Use Discretion/Gauge our results
Think independantly/Readjust/Tweak/Adapt
Harmonize and Integrate
And Gosh Darn it people....CUSTOMIZE!!!!!!!

Mild to moderate face and back.
220lbs 5'10"
All Man!
20mg ed for 6 months
Started...........June 28th/06

Other supps. Vit E/ Milk Thistle/ EFA's/ Digestive Enzymes/ Acidophilus