It's funny you mention this, because I got my sister into taking Elixa recently (she wanted to see if she could use it to avoid zits around her period time). She said it caused her a few blemishes to begin with and then started working really well. She's researched and had come to the same conclusion as you about die-off, but I can't say that I ever experienced that myself.
I think she took a couple of 6 day courses and it was towards the end that things 'flipped' and her skin improved. I haven't actually seen her in person (we live in separate cities) and I found it hard to believe that it would have caused one of these 'die-off' reactions (since I assumed if it did then I would have experienced it) however she is fairly astute and scientific so I guess it is the case.
I'd say you should see what happens after you finish off what you have. Like you say.... maybe you have SIBO!! In which case we're talking about a completely different thing and no probiotic on earth is going to work well for you with that! Maybe try the lactulose breath test at your doctor's.
Can you share what brands of probiotics you've tried before this one? I'm interested in this whole soil probiotic thing and wanted to know if you've tried them?
If you check the packaging on sliced bread you'll see a laundry list of ingredients above and beyond the simple things that bread used to be made from. I believe any fermentable ingredients (i.e. ingredients that make it non-fully-digested to the large intestine) have the potential to cause you skin problems; by the way they affect the population of bacteria in your gut.
Same with milk.
Firstly, I'd like to say that you don't have to be coeliac or lactose intolerant, for wheat or milk (respectively) to give you acne. Infact you don't even need to be allergic to them. People are not allergic or intolerant to KFC, yet it still worsens skin.
I very much doubt that you have coeliac based on the fact that you would have experienced severe pain from the autoimmune reaction that would take place in your small intestine, soon after eating any amount of gluten products.
My recommendation is to simply cut out wheat products and dairy and to monitor improvements for a week or so.
I would strongly advise against taking any more antibiotics.
May I ask: Was there anything that caused the initial appearance of your acne around 8 months ago? I see that you went from a splash of milk to 1-2 PINTS!! Which is definitely a big enough difference to be the culprit of all this.... But, let's consider some other triggers:
Had you taken any antibiotics?
Had you experienced any illness (particularly a gastrointestinal illness which may or may not have caused diarrhoea)?
Had you experienced any food or alcohol poisoning?
I hear ya Beemm and I think you are absolutely correct about the gut dysbiosis. I'm convinced that it's responsible for almost all skin problems. However the actual effectiveness of the home procedure version of the FMT has to be examined. It has been highly effective against C.Diff and the capsule version and naso-gastric route was even more effective than the enema route (which is counterintuitive).
Have you tried a probiotic? None of them come close to the bacterial variance that an FMT would provide, BUT, I did have great success with a very high strength (it had 9 strains of human intestinal bacteria, so it was about as good as is available).
In other words, I could not match the number of species but I did atleast find a high enough dose - for my case atleast (it is half a TRILLION per dose). You can check out some of my posts about my specific results. I've posted a little about it on these forums. I might make a big post/review - along with a couple general dietary habits I follow now.
You can skip all that prepping stage by doing a couple of saline enemas prior to the FMT. You need to do them prior to the transplant anyway, if you want to give yourself a decent shot at success.
You can either attempt to reduce contents of your colon via starving yourself for 2 weeks..... or you can simply flush it all out just prior to the transplant.
It's called Elixa.
And bear in mind I have tried MANY before, with zilch success. I stopped testing probiotics once i was on like... my TENTH brand.
One brand did do something. But I later found out that was a fiber included in it. (the something that it did, was relating to bowel habits, not skin)
But when I read some good things about Elixa I googled about it and saw their whole style of taking the high dose over a short period of time, as opposed to one capsule forever, so I thought it was significantly different to give it a shot. Here's the url: www.elixa-probiotic.com
First thing it did was clear my seb derm. Infact i wasn't even aware that I had minor seborrhoeic dermatitis all over my body, until i started taking this and felt my whole skin (not just face and scalp) was smoother as a result. I kept taking it and next thing was zits went away. Hardest thing to budge was my SUPER DUPER oiliness. But after about ~4 courses my previously oily, greasy disgusting skin is now matte and to the point where after a whole day there is just a tiny invisible film on my face, which i feel rinse away with a couple splashes of warm water.
Compare this to what it was like before: visible droplets of oil accumulating on my nose pores after a couple of hours of washing my face.
So yeah, I'm extremely pleased that it budged that tough problem. Should have little obstacle getting rid of some zits, i reckon
Yep, it's interesting stuff.
I did a bit of reading about it a while ago and the only thing that put me off from testing it was the fact that Bacillus Coagulans did form spores. I saw this as a disadvantage because if I tested it out and nothing much happened BUT now there were these indestructible spores hibernating in my large intestine, then.... who knows...... Might have some long term (bad) effect...
I was playing it safe (for once)..It just didn't sound like a good idea to have these 'indestructible' spores of a bacteria that isn't supposed to be there...
To be frank,
I'm really skeptical when people claim that product X 'broke them out the worst ever' and then proceed to claim that 'topic Y' has no relation to acne whatsoever.
You've said that this probiotic broke you out and then concluded that means gut flora has nothing to do with regulating sebum production...??
Make up your mind!!! There either is or isn't a connection! haha
For me it did the opposite. But then again, I had a gut problem also, and it cleared that up
Could be Herxheimer reaction? (dieoff?)
See what happens over the next few days now you've finished the course.
A little update: Everything's going well. The skin on my upper back and neck are now as smooth as my under-forearm. Really weird sensation to feel that. Still haven't got used to it yet.
Face is all the same tone now, aswell. Never really noticed I had varying skin colour in my face (e.g. slight bits of redness or irritated looking skin) until it went away..
Yeah if you got diarrhoea maybe it was from inulin/FOS in your supplement.
Half the reason I went with Elixa (the other half was that it was high dosage) was that it contained NO inulin/fos/similar fibre. They always talk about inulin/FOS feeding the good bacteria and all this stuff (e.g. 'maximises the effect by 1000x!') but for me it just gives me massive bowel discomfort. And it's obvious why really: if it feeds bacteria and you have an excess of bad bacteria in your gut that are gives you problems... then supplying more food for them to ferment is just going to aggravate the condition. It's not like these oligosaccharides can selectively only feed good bacteria (although some places claim they do, i have had first hand pain/bloating that begs to differ!!).
Example: I took one which was a mix of psyllium, FOS/inulin and probiotics. I never have problems with psyllium or probiotics but that one gave me terrible pain and bloating. (bloating within a few hours and then deep abdominal pain after about 10 hours for another 12+ hours).
Not had problems with this Elixa brand and i've taken quite a few. (i'll also add that I would get diarrhoea pretty easily by, for example, drinking milk. They've actually HELPED in that regard i'd say.)
I'd be interested to see how it works for several people. I've only read 5-10 reviews of it so far and i guess it is quite new.
I'm confident I've given this an extremely thorough trial since it has been atleast 10 weeks. Despite it recommending just to take it once, the positive results made me super motivated just to see how how i could really take it, or if there are diminishing returns.
I took about.. 4 boxes in the past 2 months, i'd say.. My skin is great. No seb derm anymore and my oiliness has gone from total oil slick to a barely noticeable (healthy looking) sheen. It's not dried out and it's not oily. It's just about perfect while i eat healthily and a little touch of oil when i eat greasy foods for a few meals in a row. I'm very happy. I look forward to seeing more out of this brand because it only seems to have popped up recently, atleast in my country... Website is www.elixa-probiotic.com or just google/ebay search elixa probiotic, if you want to read some of the more in-depth explanations. It's a purple box.
Hope it can help you. I'll come back and post another update if i remember in a few months because i'm going to get a couple boxes right now, before i go on travels. (Sorry, i'm in a rush!)
A really high strength one I found called Elixa. It's a three day program in a little purple box. I'll do a sort of write-up/review on here after another week or so of observing the effects
Their website has alot of extra info on it if you're interested. It's best thing since sliced bread as far as i'm concerned
Probiotics were the silver bullet that cleared my skin completely.
I wonder whether people breaking out from them may be taking probiotics containing additional ingredients such as inulin/fructooligosaccharides. That would explain breakouts.
Probiotics on their own will mostly do nothing good or bad. That's because they are far too low dose. You need a much higher dose for them to work. Only one brand worked for me... and when it worked, it freakin' worked good!
It's what got me back interested in this forum because i'm now fascinated by all things to do with the microbiota!