954 replies to this topic

[LionQueen]

Wow ... this stuff is really, truly, honestly amazing. I just had to let you all know about it.

After 4 months on retinoids (Green Cream, Diacneal, Retin A), I have managed to get rid of all of my old bumps and inflamed acne ... but the pores in my T-zone were still getting badly congested every couple of weeks, resulting in blackheads and microzits. Since I'm a habitual picker, and my skin is currently very fragile from the retinoids, these clogged pores were creating a real problem for me.

As soon as I started reading about mandelic acid, I knew I had to try it. The trouble was, the first MA product I tried really does not work well with Green Cream -- and I LOVE Green Cream and will not give it up! I could see that the MA was zapping the blackheads and tightening my pores, but unfortunately it was also burning my skin -- which is not supposed to happen. Mandelic is a very mild AHA.

Anyway, I finally found a new MA product that I can use with retinoids, and I am just loving it. My pores are tighter and clearer than I ever thought possible and my blackheads are almost entirely extinct.

So here are my product recommendations:

If you have oily skin and are NOT using retinoids, you should be able to use the Vivant mandelic acid serum sold on the Diana Yvonne site. I suggest buying a sample first to try it out. This is probably the purest, most powerful and effective mandelic product out there.

If you have dry or sensitive skin, are using retinoids or other anti-acne products, or just find that you can't tolerate the Vivant mandelic, you are probably better off going with the alcohol-free mandelic acid serum made and sold by Garden of Wisdom. They make a 10% version and a 15% version. Sample sizes are available. I use the 10% if I'm layering it under retinoids and 15% if I'm using it by itself.

Mandelic acid needs about 30 minutes to absorb into the skin and "do its thing" -- so you should apply it to clean dry skin, and not apply anything else for at least 30 minutes.

A little more info about mandelic acid: here's a quote from Deb, the Forum Host at the Diana Yvonne SkinCare Board:

It works in the same manner as salicylic acid, except it cannot penetrate as deep into the pore as salicylic acid. Thus, it increases cell turnover within the pore, causing the release of comedones. As soon as you stop using it faithfully, just like salicylic acid, back they come!

I think the reason people rave about mandelic acid is that it is an AHA with some BHA properties. As well as being antibacterial, anti-inflammatory and lipid permeable (thus the pore exfoliation), it is a gentle 15% AHA at a low pH. AHAs exfoliate the epidermis much better than with salicylic acid, which cannot penetrate very deeply into the epidermal layers. So, the skin is smoother, tighter and more even in tone. Thus, the AHA activity combined with the lipid permeability aids in the appearance of smaller pores.

CHECK IT OUT!!!!!!

[cjb]

Hmmm, I am thinking about it.

I definitely have a few stubborn clogged pores that the retnoids don't seem to budge. You layer it with the diacneal or retin a at night? Every night??

[LionQueen]

You layer it with the diacneal or retin a at night? Every night??

Yes, I have actually been using it morning and night under retinoids (I have pretty tough skin). Here's my routine. Because of the wait times it looks really long and complicated, but actually it's just kinda spread out ... for example, after I put the mandelic on in the AM, I go have breakfast, then come back and put GC on, go do something else for awhile, then finish off with the other products before leaving the house.

AM:

Cleanse (the minute I get up!)
Mandelic acid 10% (then wait 30 minutes)
Green Cream 6 or 9 (then wait 30 minutes)
DMAE, emu oil, hyaluronic acid, sunscreen

PM:

Cleanse (right before or after dinner, usually)
Mandelic acid 10% (then wait 30 minutes)
CP serum (then wait 5 minutes)
Retin A or Diacneal (I am alternating nights between the two)

[Moonface]

Sounds promising, if I can find some I will try it. Thx LQ!

[LionQueen]

Here are a couple other mandelic products people have said they really like:

NuCelle (10% mandelic)
MaMa lotion (10% mandelic & 10% malic acids)

I haven't tried either of them ... but it sounds like folks have had good results.

[macq]

Are you getting any dry patches using both green cream and MA ?

[LionQueen]

Are you getting any dry patches using both green cream and MA ?

I had one earlier this week, right along my left nasolabial line. I have been applying extra Retin A to those lines, so I suspect that was the culprit.

With the Vivant mandelic (which is alcohol-based) I had HORRIBLE dryness problems. Using it was like giving myself a peel ... no fun. But the Garden of Wisdom serums are working wonderfully for me.

[LionQueen]

More info on mandelic: here's the blurb from a site selling the Vivant 15% serum:

MANDELIC ACID:
A POWERFUL 3-IN-1 PUNCH
Vivant Skin Care’s Mandelic Acid Serum effectively treats photo-aging, irregular pigmentation and acne in one bottle.


Vivant Skin Care, Inc., whose potent, medically-based formulations are developed by James E. Fulton, Jr., MD, PhD, is pleased to introduce to its line Mandelic Acid Serum. Mandelic acid, a relatively new alpha hydroxy acid (AHA) derived from bitter almonds, is proving unique in its ability to multi-task. Unlike other AHAs, it targets several prevalent skin care issues--rejuvenating photo-aged skin, actively suppressing pigmentation, and treating acne.

A more streamlined skin care regime for the complex needs of aging skin: Mandelic acid was originally studied in open clinical trials as an antibacterial treatment aid in healing after laser resurfacing. However, after continued use it offered excellent benefits to the skin. As with glycolic acid treatment, fine wrinkles and lines improve dramatically with Mandelic acid, but more importantly, without the irritation or post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation often seen with glycolic acid and other alpha hydroxy acids. Skin texture improves rapidly and, as with glycolic acid, the effect is sustained over months and years of treatment, gradually minimizing fine lines and wrinkles.

An effective and non-abrasive treatment for hyper pigmentation: In addition to visibly improving the look and texture of photo-aged skin, Vivant ’s Mandelic Acid Serum also quickly aids abnormal pigmentation, including post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, treatment-resistant melasma (brown spots), and lentigoes (large freckles). Results are comparable and sometimes superior to those attained from topical hydroquinone.

A powerful antibacterial for acne sufferers: With its powerful anti-bacterial action, Mandelic Acid Serum has proven to be a true phenomenon. With its use, many patients are for the first time able to control their acne without traditional antibiotics or topical acne products that can excessively irritate their skin.

Dr. Fulton states, “Mandelic Acid Serum is ideal for the adult woman with complex skin care needs. My patients love the fact that one product is able to deliver three potent therapies equally effective. In my opinion, it is one of the best modalities to come along since Dr. Kligman and I developed Vitamin A acid (tretinoin, Retin-A®) in 1969. Super-efficient and potent, it epitomizes what I consider to be modern skin care innovation at its best.�

[LionQueen]

Wow ... I have NO blackheads right now.

I have a 10x magnifying mirror, so I can check pretty darn closely. Nothing. Nice clean tight pores all over my face.

I've only been using mandelic for a couple weeks ... this stuff ROCKS.

[LionQueen]

Here's a link to a thread with more excellent information about mandelic acid.

Mandelic thread

[Dith]

I am using green cream only at night. How do you put on the mandelic acid?

[LionQueen]

I am using green cream only at night. How do you put on the mandelic acid?

I would advise using it only in the mornings until you are comfortable with it. It is a liquid serum; I put a few pumps into the palm of one hand and dab it evenly onto my face immediately after cleansing. Then I wait 30 minutes before applying moisturizer and sunscreen.

If that goes well, you can try putting it under Green Cream at night. Again, you would apply the mandelic right after cleansing; wait 30 minutes; apply Green Cream; wait 30 minutes if you want to moisturize further.

I use the alcohol-free 15% mandelic marine serum if I am using it by itself and the 10% under the Green Cream.

I think it is very important to at least start out with the alcohol-free serums if you are also using Green Cream or any other retinoid. I had terrible problems with dryness and irritation when I used an alcohol-based serum ... but it is possible that someone with oilier skin than mine might have better success. Everyone is different ...

[BradtheBrad]

how long will 1 bottle of the Garden of Wisdom mandelicc acid last if I only use it on my nose? also im a 17 yr old guy so do you recommend this for me? tried bp, salicylic acid, hasnt really done anything for my blackheads. thanks

[LionQueen]

how long will 1 bottle of the Garden of Wisdom mandelicc acid last if I only use it on my nose? also im a 17 yr old guy so do you recommend this for me? tried bp, salicylic acid, hasnt really done anything for my blackheads. thanks

You could probably get 6-8 weeks out of it -- that's a rough estimate, of course. And if you have very oily skin and are not using retinoids, I urge you to consider trying the Vivant mandelic. You can get a sample at the Diana Yvonne site (see link in my sig).

[BradtheBrad]

You could probably get 6-8 weeks out of it -- that's a rough estimate, of course. And if you have very oily skin and are not using retinoids, I urge you to consider trying the Vivant mandelic. You can get a sample at the Diana Yvonne site (see link in my sig).

never used retinoids, and dont have oily skin (although my nose gets oily in the middle of the day sometimes). ive had blackheads for a while i guess but a couple months ago my ex-gf mentioned it which made me self conscious. i want to destroy these bastards.

also, how does mandelic acid differ from benzoyl peroxide in terms of fighting blacheads?


thanks lion queen!

[LionQueen]

never used retinoids, and dont have oily skin (although my nose gets oily in the middle of the day sometimes). ive had blackheads for a while i guess but a couple months ago my ex-gf mentioned it which made me self conscious. i want to destroy these bastards.

also, how does mandelic acid differ from benzoyl peroxide in terms of fighting blacheads?

BP is not very useful against blackheads at all. It fights acne by fighting BACTERIA ... and bacteria are not at the root of blackheads. Blackheads are just clogged pores full of dead skin cells and old sebum. Mandelic acid exfoliates the pores, which loosens up all the gunk; a lot of it will come out on its own, and what's left is easy to extract.

If you are just targeting your nose, I really suggest getting a sample of the Vivant mandelic -- it is a blackhead blaster. The GoW serum is effective too, but it is gentler and takes longer to work. Since you are not using retinoids, I don't see why you couldn't use the Vivant ... unless you have very sensitive skin?

Anyway, sample sizes of both products are available, so you can make up your own mind which is best for you.

[BradtheBrad]

appreciate your help lion queen, you certainly seem to know what you're talking about. I ordered a sample of the vivant mandelic acid... expensive but worht it if it works!

[lampwick]

lion queen, does mandelic acid help with redness? I saw it helps with hyperpigmentation? Is that the same thing? My t-zone area has lots of little bumps and the area is also red and raised above my normal skin. It doesn't really flush. It is almost always red just sometimes during the day it looks worse than others. But if I exercise the color can go back to normal for a couple hours on my cheeks, but I can still see a line seperating the good skin from the bad. The areas on my cheeks right next to my nose and my forehead look more like rashes than any kind of acne, but it's been like that for about 2 years. I've asked doctors if it's rosacea but they said it wasn't and that it's clogged pores. You think mandelic acid would work for this? Also I have really sensitive skin so I would use the garden of wisdom kind. Do you think that would irritate my skin worse cause the redness is more of a problem than the blackheads?

[LionQueen]

lion queen, does mandelic acid help with redness? I saw it helps with hyperpigmentation? Is that the same thing? My t-zone area has lots of little bumps and the area is also red and raised above my normal skin. It doesn't really flush. It is almost always red just sometimes during the day it looks worse than others. But if I exercise the color can go back to normal for a couple hours on my cheeks, but I can still see a line seperating the good skin from the bad. The areas on my cheeks right next to my nose and my forehead look more like rashes than any kind of acne, but it's been like that for about 2 years. I've asked doctors if it's rosacea but they said it wasn't and that it's clogged pores. You think mandelic acid would work for this? Also I have really sensitive skin so I would use the garden of wisdom kind. Do you think that would irritate my skin worse cause the redness is more of a problem than the blackheads?

I think mandelic could very well help with what you describe, but as you say, you would definitely want the alcohol-free version. Try a sample and see what you think ... don't invest in the full-sized product until you have some sense of whether it will work for you! GoW offers the alcohol-free serums in both 10% and 15% concentrations, and I think you might want to try samples of both.

Have you tried topical retinoids at all? Those are also extremely effective against clogged pores. Are you in the US, or somewhere else?

[jinx_101]

If the alcohol within the serum can irritate the skin, what purpose does it serve?