879 replies to this topic

[LionQueen]

No acne for the past few days, and no bumps right now. I haven't worked out yet this morning, so the bumps may be visible later, but things are looking good right now, even in my evil mirror. Overall skin quality is excellent -- it looks smooth, well-hydrated and healthy.

I wish I'd started with Green Cream about 10 years ago!

I'm not experiencing any redness from the retinol anymore, but I do get small scaly patches of dry skin, mostly on and around my nose. In fact, I'd be perfectly clear today if I hadn't gotten over-zealous about peeling off that dead skin a couple days ago. I pulled a clump of what I _thought_ was loose skin off the end of my nose with tweezers -- and left a big red mark right on the tip. So now I have a scab there. I gotta be more careful, dammit!

My Calmin cleanser and environmental protection cream arrived on Saturday, so I'm just getting started with them. I really like the cleanser -- it's as gentle and effective as promised -- but haven' t tried the cream yet. My current moisturizer is a bottle of Clarins Ultra Matte day cream that I'd ordered from Sephora awhile back and forgotten about until I was searching frantically for something to use instead of the Murad gel. It actually seems like a really good moisturizer, so I may stick with it for awhile.

3/11 UPDATE: No longer using the Clarins product.

[shunts]

Hi Q

Glad to hear you're doing well. My skin is looking like shit at the moment and I'm not sure I should be breaking out this often usung ZZ cream etc. I think I might try your method. Could you maybe PM me with your routine as you didn't suffer any bad breakouts did you?

[LionQueen]

Sure, I'll PM you with the details.

And no, I didn't have any bad breakouts, but I really am not sure why not. If you've followed any of the topical A threads on the board, you've seen that people have had very mixed results. I think perhaps it's a good product for curbing oil production and purging blocked pores, but maybe not so great for people who have cystic acne. Just my take.

It's also possible that I dodged a bullet by combining the topical A with the green cream ... maybe the retinol kept the purging in check.

Or maybe I just got lucky, and this was the right combo for my skin at this time.

Anyway ... having another good skin day today. I think I'm really starting to see the improved texture and the overall glow that the retinol products promise.

[LionQueen]

Another round of purging going on, this time on the left side of my face -- chin, jaw, lower cheek. I knew this was coming -- that was my biggest problem area a few months ago, and I've been able to see these bumps lurking under the surface for about a week now. There is still a scattering of tiny ones under the surface there, so I expect I have more of this to look forward to.

Anyway, about 6 bumps surfaced after my workout & shower yesterday. 5 of them were easy to deal with, just the comedo pushing out, and I was able to get them out with tweezers. The 6th was a little bit sore and infected and I had to pop it with a sterile needle. Then I cleansed and jessfoliated the area and applied the topical A and green cream as usual. Today, there's no swelling or soreness at any of those spots. They did leave some slight redmarks, but I don't see any more bumps coming up in this area.

The great thing about the green cream is that redmarks don't last long; even the worst of them are dried up and gone within a couple of weeks. The self-inflicted one on my nose from a few days ago has almost disappeared.

So aside from the redmarks, all of which are pretty easy to hide with a cover stick, my skin looks great. Now that I've stopped using the Murad cleanser and gel moisturizer with SA, the dryness problem is gone. In addition to the Clarins moisturizer, which I just love, I am experimenting with some sample skin firming products from Nicholas Perricone; too soon to make a call on whether these are worth the $$$$$$. ($135 + shipping just for the kit of samples; the same set in full size costs a fortune. But if I find one truly great product, that'll be worth it.)

3/11 UPDATE: All of those costly little Perricone samples are now in the trash.

[LionQueen]

Another excellent skin day. No bumps, no pimples, and the redmarks from yesterday are now barely visible. Not dry this morning, but not oily, either ... just right! hope it lasts!

[jeniferjupiter]

Hi there...
It sounds like your regimine is working well. This may sound stupid, but what the heck is green cream?

[LionQueen]

Not stupid at all! Green cream is the most powerful over-the-counter retinol treatment that I'm aware of. You can check it out at www.greencream.com

[LionQueen]

Just noticed yesterday that two of my facial moles are fading away -- in fact, one has nearly disappeared. It has gone from brown to flesh color and has flattened out to the point where I can barely find it with my fingers. Other brown spots along my jaws have also mysteriously vanished. I am feeling increased respect for retinoids.

Another good skin day today -- though when I look in the magnifying mirror, I can see 4 small bumps pushing up on my chin. The pores aren't open, so I suspect these are going to turn into tiny pustules. With luck, they'll be the kind that pop during cleansing and don't leave marks!

[LionQueen]

I've been getting so many PMs about these products, I feel like I need to put some more info down here. Sorry if this is repetitive!

-- Topical Vitamin A: A solution of Vitamin A and Vitamin E in sunflower, olive, and clove oils. It comes from www.thevitamincure.com. I use it at night after cleansing. I started by using about 6 drops a night and am now up to 10, but that's because I'm now using it on my neck and upper chest as well.

-- Green Cream: An over-the-counter high-retinol treatment available in 3 formulations: Level 3 (weakest), Level 6 (recommended for most users), and Level 9 (strongest). More information available at www.greencream.com. You can buy green cream from a number of online sellers; I get mine from www.lindasy.com and have been happy with their service so far. I use it every night after the Vitamin A, and sometimes during the day on problem areas (nose & jawline).

-- Irritation: I have experienced virtually no problems from the products alone, although I was very cautious with them for the first few weeks. Irritation has come from outside influences: cold, wind, overscrubbing, harsh cleansers. It has cleared up quickly in all cases because I have simply stopped using the products for a day or two and made sure to stay moisturized.

-- Purging: Yes, these products do make your pores purge. In my case, there has been very little inflammation associated with the purging. From what I've read on the board, that is not true for everyone; the topical Vitamin A has made some people break out very badly.

-- Peeling: Yes, my skin is constantly peeling, but I find this easy to control with gentle exfoliation (AHA/BHA cleanser, jessfoliation). No, I don't look scaly.

-- Redmarks: Yes, this treatment helps fade them. It also fades freckles, age spots, scars, and moles. Strong stuff!

-- Monthly hormonal breakouts: I got one last month; it was mild, but persistent. I expect another one in a week or so, and hope it will be still milder and less persistent, but we shall see! By "mild" I mean small, superficial pimples that healed fairly quickly; by "persistent" I mean that I saw several of those pimples each morning and evening. This went on for more than a week. Since then, I've been almost perfectly clear.

-- Will it work for you: If you have stubborn comedonal acne (clogged pores) with not much in the way of cysts and inflammation, this is probably a really good way to go, and I recommend this method wholeheartedly. Alternatively, I would recommend any sort of prescription topical retinoid: Retin A, Differin, Tazorac, whatever. But if you have more severe acne, I have no idea if this will help or hurt you.

-- Do you need both products: Probably not. Green Cream alone is probably enough. I use them together mainly because Green Cream makes the outer layer of my skin flake off and the Vitamin A solution helps keep it looking smooth. I think they have worked really well together for me ... and I don't argue with success.

-- Other useful info: Mild cleanser and a very gentle, non-comedogenic moisturizer are key. So is staying hydrated (lots of water, omega 3,6,9 supplements).

I hope this is helpful.

[LionQueen]

More purging going on. No soreness or inflammation anywhere, but I've had several small bumps surface on my nose, in addition to the ones on my chin a couple days back. Oh, and two on my lower neck. So now I have a scattering of little red dots, and I can see a bunch more of these little bumps on the way up. I just hate it. I was so much happier being clear.

Everything's quite small and should heal fast, it's nothing I should be bitching about ... but of course, I am!

I think that I obsess about my skin too much. I also think that my totally clear days have raised my expectations unreasonably high. So here are some reminders to myself:

-- My skin is bound to continue purging for at least the next 4-6 weeks, and probably longer. It's the nature of the treatment.

-- I might need the higher-retinol (Level 9) Green Cream. March 13 is the earliest I could order it. It could give me the extra edge I need. And if it doesn't, well, I can always go back to the derm and get Retin A again ... my skin might be sufficiently adjusted to retinoids by now that I wouldn't have to go through all the redness and the peeling.

-- Even on days like today, my skin is SO MUCH better than before ... and it hasn't really taken very long.

[LionQueen]

This ain't no purge, this is PMS. How come I didn't think of that before?

My whole body feels completely f*cked up. Inflamed pimples are coming up on my nose and chin (at least they're small and not red -- yet). I'm bloated. My stomach hurts. My feet are swollen. I'm completely wiped out ... and I really just want to crawl into a hole for the next week and not come out.

That's just the usual stuff.

One new and delightful symptom: my neck and upper chest have gone bright flaming red. I thought my skin there was fully adjusted to the green cream, but maybe it gets more sensitive this time of the month? At any rate, this hasn't happened to me since my LAST cycle of misery. So no more treatments on that area for awhile.

God, I am truly in a horrible mood. Going to bed before I inflict it on anyone else.

[LionQueen]

Things look so much better this morning ... pimples dried up, redness has faded quite a bit, and after that brief burst of hysteria I have calmed down and realized the redness is probably just a light sunburn. (We are having a very sunny January here in Northern CA.) Anyway, I need to remember to put the sunblock all the way down to my upper chest now that I'm using the products there.

[~Bobbi~]

Queen, I have some questions for you if you don't mind. I am considering trying the Green Cream for the same issues you have dealt with BUMPINESS!!! Anyway I have mildly sensitive skin so I'm not sure if I should start out w/ the level 3 or level 6. Any thoughts? I have used Retin A in the past (way past-like 13 years) I don't recall having trouble with it besides dry skin. I know you are also using a topical vitamin A, why exactly? and do you think this contributed to the bumps going away? Also how much improvement would you say you've had? Thanks in advance for answering these questions. Have a great day.

[LionQueen]

I have mildly sensitive skin so I'm not sure if I should start out w/ the level 3 or level 6. Any thoughts?

Hi, Bobbi!

If your skin is only mildly sensitive, I think you could probably tolerate the Level 6 ... I would describe my skin as mildly sensitive, and I haven't had much trouble with it. But if you want more professional advice, you can call Linda Sy Skin Care at 1-877-546-3279. Tell 'em you are interested in the Green Cream but need help deciding which level to start with, and they should be able to help you. I have ordered from their website twice now, and service has been good so far. Of course, if you aren't satisfied with the answers you get, try another supplier ... there are a bunch of them listed on the Green Cream website (see the link in my signature).


I have used Retin A in the past (way past-like 13 years) I don't recall having trouble with it besides dry skin. I know you are also using a topical vitamin A, why exactly? and do you think this contributed to the bumps going away?


The topical vitamin A I use comes from www.thevitamincure.com -- it is a highly concentrated oil-based solution containing olive, sunflower, and clove oils, Vitamin A and Vitamin E. I use it for 3 reasons:

1) Like other topical retinoids, it helps clear the pores
2) It makes my skin very soft and supple
3) Now, this is the weird one!! Even though it is oil-based, it supposedly makes your skin LESS OILY -- just as Accutane does. According to their website, this is because the oil-based formulation enables the Vitamin A to penetrate your skin in a way that water-based retinoids (such as Retin A) cannot -- and it works to shrink your sebaceous glands. Believe me, I was skeptical! But the results have been FANTASTIC. I used to wake up every day to an oil slick on my face -- and now when I look in the mirror first thing, I see totally normal skin. It's great.

Because I have been using the topical A and the green cream together since the beginning, I can't separate out their effects as far as the bumps go. I would guess that both products help with the purging, and one or both have helped to keep the breakouts in check ... certainly, the little zits dry up very quickly! But I definitely wasn't scientific about this process so I can't tell you exactly which product did what.


Also how much improvement would you say you've had?


Bumps -- HUGE improvement. Last fall, I had "chicken skin" all along my jaw, including upper throat and lower cheek areas, plus a big patch on my forehead. My skin texture now is incredibly smooth overall with only occasional tiny bumps and/or zits here and there.

Congestion -- Definite improvement, but still a ways to go. The pores on my forehead are quite clear, but my nose and chin are still filling up a bit. Not nearly as much as they used to, but definitely not clear yet. My cheeks look clear at first glance, but if I stretch the skin tight and look in my magnifying mirror, I can still see some stuff under the surface. Jaws are mostly clear, though occasional scattered bumps still come up.

Oiliness -- Again, a definite improvement, though I'm hoping for more. In the morning, my skin shows no oiliness at all. After cleansing and moisturizing, though, some oil does show up again during the day. It isn't horrible anymore, but I do still use occasional blotting sheets.

Inflamed breakouts -- HUGE improvement. Before starting this treatment, I got occasional large and small inflamed zits and even some cysts, especially during PMS. Since I started on December 13, I've had no cysts at all and only tiny zits -- and really, not many of those. I just tend to make a big fuss over the ones I do get.

I hope that helps! Good luck with your treatment and let me know how it goes!

[~Bobbi~]

Thank you so much for answering my questions for thoroughly, I am definately going to oder both products. I will let you know how it goes with my "chicken skin"

[LionQueen]

Thank you so much for answering my questions for thoroughly, I am definately going to oder both products. I will let you know how it goes with my "chicken skin"

No problem. However, before you order the topical A, you should probably read the information attached here; I asked LabGirl81, who is a cosmetic chemist, what she thought of the company's claims, and she had this to say today:

As far as I know the only form of Vitamin-A that can reduce sebum production is isotretinoin. I know when we use retinyl palmitate in the lab we have to wear gloves and not let it come into direct contact with our skin because it is mutagenic and can be tetragenic. It is oil soulble and can easily penetrate the skin. Once it does it's converted by an enzyme to trans-retinoic acid or tretinoin (yes tretinoin is a natural metabolic by product of Vitamin A). The conversion is not very effective because the skin does not contain high levels of the enzyme so it's never as effective as topically applied tretinoin. Trans-retinoic acid (tretinoin) has not been proven to reduce sebum production. Although it's much more active isomer cis-retinoic acid (isotretinoin) does reduce sebum production.

Both tretinoin (Retin-A) only has very, very slight solubility in water (it's an isoprenoid fatty acid). It's actually cosidered to be oil soluble along with the other Vitamin-A derivatives, and can also easily penetrate the skin without much difficulty....

I wouldn't take what a vitamin company says as gospel. They just want to sell vitamins. What they are claiming is just that....a claim....(I'm not trying to the play the devils advocate here....I'm just looking out for consumers)

So, in a nutshell, she doesn't believe it should work to shrink sebaceous glands the way they say it does. I am thinking about e-mailing this info to the company and see how they respond ... but personally, I am going to keep using the stuff, just because my results have been so great.

[LionQueen]

Here's what info@thevitamincure had to say in defense of its product:

We're glad you are enjoying success. All forms of Vitamin A, including tretinoin, are potentially mutagenic and tetragenic in high doses. But the amount of Vitamin A that can cross the skin/barrier is certainly much less than that entering the bloodstream due to deliberate ingestion, and no case of abnormally high bloodstream levels, normal with Accutane, has been reported from use of our product.

The gist of our patent is the oil-based vehicle. Retin-A may be slightly soluble in sebum; however, the vehicle it employs is not, and thus negating its effectiveness. Plus we have experiment with retinoic acid, and found it less effective at reducing sebum topically than retinyl palmitate, so we find no reason to make use of it.

Finally, the proof is in the pudding. Does it work? We see it does. And if you are concerned about health issues, please get a bloodtest. Which is probably a good idea to do once a year no matter how good you may feel.

[LionQueen]

My skin has been much the same every day this week. It starts out pretty clear each morning, but by the end of each day, several small zits have popped up on/around my nose & chin. By the next morning, these are pretty well dried up, although sometimes they refill during the day.

This is the mildest PMS breakout I've ever had. No large pimples and nothing at all on my jaws, at least not so far. I do have quite a few small marks on nose and chin where spots are healing, but it doesn't look too horrible (especially with makeup on).

This will probably continue for a few more days .... we'll see.

[LionQueen]

Finally, an evening with no new breakouts. I think the worst is over! No more PMS till next month!

All clear right now except for some very faint, almost-healed spots around my nose and one red bump on my throat that showed up this morning. Yeah, I squeezed it, couldn't resist. No pus, just a wad of the waxy gunk (yeah, I know, it's sebum and dead skin cells). "Waxy gunk" is just so much more descriptive.

I finished up my first Green Cream bottle and started a second one today. So for me, a 1 oz bottle (at $40) lasts 6+ weeks. Considering how well it works, this seems like a good deal to me.

3/11 UPDATE: My second bottle of Level 6 only lasted 3 weeks. I am going thru GC much faster now that my skin is accustomed to it.

[LionQueen]

OK, I was a little premature with that last post ... the hormones weren't done with me yet. I've been taking it on the chin all week, literally. Four sore, swollen, stubborn red bumps popped up over the course of a few days, all of 'em on my chin. The rest of my face has been perfectly clear.

The chin bumps were all dried up by yesterday, but I still have pretty noticeable scabs there. I'm hoping to jessfoliate them down a bit by this evening ... there are 50+ people coming to my house for a party tonight and it's just so much more fun when I don't feel like Hostess Zitface!

Oh, well, I am not going to worry about it ... we're playing no-limit Hold 'Em tonight and no one is really going to give a damn about my chin.