49 replies to this topic

[Minnym0use]

I've had bad acne for about 15 years.  Not to sound like a commercial but  I tried every stupid cream, lotion, cleanser, diet and perscription you've ever heard of.  And yes BP and "the regimen"  does work but it never seems to get them all and you always have to keep it on your face 24/7 and as soon as you stop guess what... it comes back.    So 6 months ago I had a bad break out and I got pissed so I spent a few days looking at other causes b/c it just isn't natural to have acne.  When your skin looks bad be it from acne or a rash it's usually a symptom of a greater underlying problem with your body. 

So while searching the net, I came upon the carbohydrate and insulin connection (the links are at the end of this post)  and I was skeptical to say the least b/c I've tired cutting out all kinds of food in the past, (Dairy, meat, salt, sugar)  but I read it b/c I was desparate and so I tried it.  Well to make a long story short,  it was the best decision I've ever made b/c 5 months later my face and body is smoother than a baby's ass.  No zits, pimples, whiteheads, blackheads, no oil, no redness, no blotchyness.  And damn am I happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    It took about 2 weeks to see major improvment when I started and it's even harder to fight the cravings and also come up with food to replace the crap I used to eat.    Here's what I've done to keep my face clear:

1.  I cut out all simple carbs... refined sugar and flour and also potatos.  So NO pasta, bread, crackers, donuts, potato chips.  I cut out all foods high on the Glycemic index.

2.  I eat lots of fruit, vegtables, dairy and protein (Chicken and fish mostly)  I drink  water or unsweetend tea, NO SODA not even gatorade. 

3.  Even though it never helped my acne before, I also take a GNC multivitamin for men and an antioxidant pill just to be sure I have what my skin needs.

4.  After a while I added back some carbs in the form of whole grain breads and protein pasta but in small amounts ... and I always eat them with something else, never by themselves, b/c of the blood sugar and insulin raising effects.  And I always watch my portions and I always read labels. 
All this may sound like a pain in the ass to do but after awhile I got used to the change and I even felt better overall....  less anixety... I never feel the urge to pick at my face, I sleep better, I never feel depressed,  and have more energy and at the gym I seem to put on muscle easier and I'm much more cut with much less effort.  I know this maybe hard to believe and I might not have believed it either 6 months ago but for the first time in my life I'm free of acne and I've never been happier with myself and it's all b/c of this diet.  Simple as that.  And it really beats the hell out of putting BP on my face all the time and bleaching the collar of all my blue shirts.

Here are the two websites that really inspired me to try this out.  Read them and see what you think.... If it doens't make any sense to you.... try it anyway.  I've totally become a believer in the power of a healthy diet and I'm definately going to stick with it for the rest of my life.

http://www.iinr.org/specialreports/ACNE.PDF
This is kinda long and the guy tries to push his own supplements but the rest of the info it brilliant.

http://www.dermadoctor.com/pages/newslette...06096291079F%7D
This isn't the original PDF I found on the subject but it sums up the one I have.  It's just some evidence of the diet and acne connection.

If you want more info just google:  Acne and glycemic index

Good luck.

THANK YOU for your post! My son is seeing such success. I am amazed everyday.
I feel like a missionary of sorts wanting to share this with others, but many just feel I am pushing a snake oil of sorts. Your post helps others see I am not some quack. Thanks again, and whoever is reading this - why not try this? It is working for many.

[Minnym0use]

You know, I'm not really all that pleased with _either_ the GI or the GL.  The GL troubles me because of what I consider to be the rather capricious and arbitrary way that they decide on serving sizes.  In my opinion, the best way of all would be to give a GL based on a FIXED amount of food (whatever the food happens to be), like 25 grams, 50 grams, 100 grams, or whatever.  Then a consumer could keep that in mind as he eats the portion size he chooses for himself, and arrive at what I think would be a more accurate estimate of his glycemic load.

Bryan

BOTTOM LINE: Don't worry about GI or GL. OK? It is a starting point for some and confusion for others. Just do this: eat your veggies, eat your fruit, eat your lean proteins

My son even eats a box of raisins a day, carrots and a banana at least every other day and some people think they are taboo. Just stick to lots of vegetables, fruits and chicken, turkey breasts, fish, and eggs. Oh, the fiber in beans is great also. Just think, if everyone reading this tried this for 1 month religiously, we could be seeing some more happy posts. I am excited for all of the possibilities.

[SweetJade1980]

BOTTOM LINE:  Don't worry about GI or GL.  OK?  It is a starting point for some and confusion for others.  Just do this:  eat your veggies, eat your fruit, eat your lean proteins

My son even eats a box of raisins a day, carrots and a banana at least every other day and some people think they are taboo.  Just stick to lots of vegetables, fruits and chicken, turkey breasts, fish, and eggs.  Oh, the fiber in beans is great also.  Just think, if everyone reading this tried this for 1 month religiously, we could be seeing some more happy posts.  I am excited for all of the possibilities.

Exactly, (initially) don't worry about the GI, GL, II unless you are a Type II Diabetic. If we eat now to prevent that from occuring these things may not matter. Of course like he mentioned and several others around here, I'm one that must also avoid Bananas. Of course there's another theory as to why I we must avoid bananas, just as there are several possible theories why myself and others avoid wheat, gluten, or all grains. With ALL of those indices & diets out there, none of them (yet to) apply to me 100%. Obviously it is still an individual thing, done through "trial & error" as some things deemed safe or favorable, I can't have, and other things deemed unfavorable, I can have, hence his talk of possible food intolerances (& sensitivities).

Oh but it all of this is very exciting and I really can't wait for them to release their study, which has been somewhat peer-reviewed since part of it has already published, but as "in procecss".

Oh and if your son or anyone doesn't enjoy the taste of unsweetened whole grain wheat, there's a variety out called "white wheat" that is lighter than what we considier to be wheat, but it doesn't have the tannins and phenolic acid that make whole wheat bitter (it's a form of pest protection), and naturally tastes like it's sweetened. My only question is what's the difference in fiber for Whole Grain "white wheat" vs. whole grain wheat. Anyone know? http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-0...ite-wheat_x.htm

[SweetJade1980]

However, until this guy gets his work peer-reviewed you should assume that it is only a potential answer. Not all research is correct. Still, if this jives with what you have experienced then you could cautiously experiment with your diet. The important thing is to make sure that your diet is balanced, by which I mean, you eat enough protein, fat and eat atleast 25g of carbs per day (which is very, very little BTW), get enough calories and ALL the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

There's also the point that he hasn't even published yet. That probably means he hasn't dotted every i and crossed every t yet. This alone might mean that the research is wrong.

I must admit, the basic idea does seem to roughly jive with my experience.

It all sounds pretty good; plausible and hopeful. But only that so far.

Well this is as much as he's got published regarding this:

Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2004;13(Suppl):S67. Related Articles, Links 


The effect of short-term altered macronutrient status on acne vulgaris and biochemical markers of insulin sensitivity.

Smith R, Mann N, Makelainen H, Braue A, Varigos G.

Food Science Department, RMIT University, VIC 3000.

Background - It has been suggested that a low-glycemic index diet may alleviate acne and this hypothesis is currently being investigated in a long-term dietary intervention study. A short-term, live-in study was designed to further investigate this link and to provide information on the short-term effects of altered macronutrient levels. Objective - To determine the short-term effects of a low-glycemic load diet on markers of insulin sensitivity and how this relates to the clinical progression of acne vulgaris. Design - Eleven male acne sufferers, aged 15-20, were allocated to either a high protein (HP,n=6, 40-45% energy from carbohydrate, 25% energy from protein) or high carbohydrate group (HC, n=5, 55-60% energy from carbohydrate, 10% energy from protein). Fat intake was maintained at 30-35% energy for each group. All meals were provided on an ad libitum basis for 7 days. Food consumed was measured at baseline and during the live-in study for an overall assessment of an individual's glycemic load. At baseline and day 7, the subject's acne was assessed by a dermatologist and blood was sampled for hormonal markers of acne and HOMA-IR. Conclusion - The sample size and/or study length was insufficient to observe any significant changes in inflammatory counts or HOMA-IR in either the HP or HC groups. Although some results appear promising, further research is needed to confirm the diet-acne connection.

PMID: 15294556 [PubMed - in process]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15294556

He's definately using the right age group to check for biochemical changes. If he was using males 30 or older, the biochemcial changes wouldn't be according to most studies I've found regarding insulin & hormone production, as middle aged men start to go through andropause (less androgen & more estrogen), yet most of those studies still show an increase in SHBG production. My guess is that he will be checking Steriod Hormones (specifically Androgens & Estrogens), SHBG, Insulin, IGF-1, PPARs, Pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, IL-6, IL-8, IL-12), other Pro-inflammatory factors (arachidonic acid, PGE2, Leukotrienes, TNF-B, etc), and prossibily Triglycerides since they also have a role in inflammation and insulin resistance.

The IGF-1 & PPARs should come up under "cell abnormalities" due to their proliferative & keritinizing affects and the diets that most of us follow on here do one or all of the following (some diets do it better than others):

Anti-androgenic or balancing
Anti-inflammatory
Anti-proliferative

There are a multitude of ways of going about this as I've found those above factors altered by Low Calorie, Low Fat, Low Carbohydrate, or High Fiber diets (some with exercise). Although, with carbohydrates, some people like myself (moderate carbing), can consume somewhere within the range of 40% - 55% carbs safely as sometimes it's just a matter of the Type of Carbs and a reduction of the HIGH amount (60% - 75% carbs) you were consuming. Regardless, with some of these studies, the Diets alone were more effective than the drug used, and with Diet + Exercise, they were even more effective!!!

So it's just a matter of time............

[zigzag]

"1.  I cut out all simple carbs... refined sugar and flour and also potatos.  So NO pasta, bread, crackers, donuts, potato chips.  I cut out all foods high on the Glycemic index."

So what kind of carbohydrates do you eat? None?

Can you list in more detail what foods you consider okay? maybe some bad ones too?

[Minnym0use]

"1.  I cut out all simple carbs... refined sugar and flour and also potatos.  So NO pasta, bread, crackers, donuts, potato chips.  I cut out all foods high on the Glycemic index."

So what kind of carbohydrates do you eat? None?

Can you list in more detail what foods you consider okay? maybe some bad ones too?

Get the carbs from fruits and vegetables. Carbs don't just come in breads, cookies, crackers and twinkies. Carbs are great - just eat you carbs from un man made things and you'll be fine. Again, carbs come from fruits and veggies. Eat an abundance of them with lean proteins.

[zigzag]

Get the carbs from fruits and vegetables.  Carbs don't just come in breads, cookies, crackers and twinkies.  Carbs are great - just eat you carbs from un man made things and you'll be fine.  Again, carbs come from fruits and veggies.  Eat an abundance of them with lean proteins.

But aren't a lot of fruits/veg simple carbs?

[Minnym0use]

Agreed, until other scientists scrutinise this guy's work then it can't be proven to work universally, or to be the cause of acne. I'm pleased to hear it worked so well for your son MinnyM0use, but I notice that on this page it says 'young male volunteers'. So maybe his research doesn't cover females and older people.

Also, do you have a scientific background Wolfkeeper? Just curious.

I tell you who does have scientifc background. All the chemists who make all the drugs that all of the people on acne.org are using that are working so well. They work so well that all of the posts say, "I am taking this drug that was FDA approved - tested and tested yet again by scientists- and it works so well. It works beyond my expectations, so everything is wonderful."

PLEASE STOP finding fault with this until you have tried it. For goodness sake, and for the sake of learning, find something good to say about it. I read articles on Web MD and dermatolgy websites by researchers that had their work published espousing the wonderful properties of minocycline and other so called acne wonder drugs, which by the way, earn drug companies and doctors billions each year. (doctors even get points and perks from drug companies for trips to the Bahamas etc... after writing out a certain amount of prescriptions - non generic of course) Do you know how many side effects there are to minocycline alone- but if the doctor tells a patient to use it is is often done without question. Even to the point of initial breakouts, upset stomachs, hyperpigmentation, and even hospitilzation. My husband had a terrible reaction to an antibiotic, never had a reaction prior, and was hospitalized. But diet - oh no, not diet. Doctor didn't tell me so. Is a doctor like a god to some? So, where is our enterprising spirit here? Where are the ones who can think outside the box? I am so happy for the people who have tried this and I feel pity for those who bad mouth without trying something. Good God, does it have to have a TV commercial like Viagra to get recognition? Isn't word of mouth what this board is all about????

I am thankful my son was able to think outside the box. God, he just walked in the room and I looked at him with his longish sandy blonde hair, blue eyes, broad shoulders and that is what I saw first - used to be allllll that was noticed first were the many red inflammed cysts on his face. You couldn't help it - they were painful looking and he said they did hurt too. I am soooo happy for him I could burst.

I almost forgot - as far as this being a male "diet" - not so. My good friend's daughter, 15, was sooo desperate she was about to go on accutane. Many cysts, very hormonal typical acne. Well, I begged her to try this first. She has been trying it for 2 1/2 weeks and has since CANCELLED her appointment for accutane - they are that happy already. I told her to just wait a few more weeks and she will really see a change. I too, have a few spots on occasion at age 46, due to perimenopause and eating this way has helped that also. I was eating like this faithfully and went out of town to a baby shower and said, oh well - what the hell - and had cake, punch, etc.... about 3 days later I had a nice crop on my chin and hairline. I also felt yucky eating the sugary stuff anyway. Just thought I would add that to the discussion.

[Minnym0use]

Hhopefully our doubts will be proved wrong when this study comes out...

MUST you wait for the study? Give it a try. Word of mouth on this forum has been study enough for me. Listen to allll who have done THIS DIET FAITHFULLY which is a microcosmic research study for sure! Who gives a flip if it is published or not? The Scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz was very smart, but he didn't think so till he had his diploma. There's a lesson in that you know. There will always be doubters even if the findings are super di duper. I hope you find what works for you.

[SweetJade1980]

Hhopefully our doubts will be proved wrong when this study comes out...

It won't. His research has been done time and time again with insulin-hormone studies dating back since the 1960s or 70s. The only difference is that instead of showing that diet affects testosterone, inflammation, LDL, etc, it is actually going to provide supportive evidence that it affects acne (all of the above contribute to or cause it). The only proof will come when YOU decide to do it for yourself. You can never be as supportive and passionate about something, until you find that it works for you personally.

Oh and of course this works for women and elders. In fact most of the studies involving hormones tend to use women, hence why it's becoming more common knowledge that Insulin Resistance (which that diet fights) can lead to Hyperandrogenism "in females", but this also occurs in males too, which other studies have shown. As far as elders go, it only matters if those elders have acne, if they do, then it will help adjust their hormone levels, or if they don't, it will help fight prostate problems, breast cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, type II diabetes, among other sometimes "preventable" diseases.

[Minnym0use]

It won't.  His research has been done time and time again with insulin-hormone studies dating back since the 1960s or 70s.  The only difference is that instead of showing that diet affects testosterone, inflammation, LDL, etc, it is actually going to provide supportive evidence that it affects acne (all of the above contribute to or cause it).  The only proof will come when YOU decide to do it for yourself.  You can never be as supportive and passionate about something, until you find that it works for you personally.

Oh and of course this works for women and elders.  In fact most of the studies involving hormones tend to use women, hence why it's becoming more common knowledge that Insulin Resistance (which that diet fights) can lead to Hyperandrogenism "in females", but this also occurs in males too, which other studies have shown.  As far as elders go, it only matters if those elders have acne, if they do, then it will help adjust their hormone levels, or if they don't, it will help fight prostate problems, breast cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, type II diabetes, among other sometimes "preventable" diseases.

[Wolfy]

So are you saying that people with acne should basically follow The Zone Diet (or Atkins diet)?

Because the target carb ratios are about the same on the Zone diet- the ratios are 30/40/30 (protein/carbs/fat) on that diet; and your main point here is to limit carbs...

[Minnym0use]

So are you saying that people with acne should basically follow The Zone Diet (or Atkins diet)?

Because the target carb ratios are about the same on the Zone diet- the ratios are 30/40/30 (protein/carbs/fat) on that diet; and your main point here is to limit carbs...

Sweet Jade, you want to take that one. I am pooped out on this and am going back to my life. I have said it over and over, the emails are posted above as to what to eat. I can't type anymore tonight.

[SweetJade1980]

Sweet Jade, you want to take that one.  I am pooped out on this and am going back to my life.  I have said it over and over, the emails are posted above as to what to eat.  I can't type anymore tonight.

LOL, exhausting they are, but I don't mind when they TRULY want to know and aren't just interested in bickering. Go enjoy the rest of your evening!

[SweetJade1980]

So are you saying that people with acne should basically follow The Zone Diet (or Atkins diet)?

Because the target carb ratios are about the same on the Zone diet- the ratios are 30/40/30 (protein/carbs/fat) on that diet; and your main point here is to limit carbs...

The main point is to limit quite a few things actually, carbohydrates being one of them. The other one is that if you are going to be eating that much fat, you want it to consist predominantly of healthier Omega 3 type fats.

The Zone theoretically sounds like a good diet, but again, it's not going to be the answer for all acne sufferers. I don't know if diet is the answer for ALL acne suffers as there are many types of acne, but at least half of those types can occur as a result of your diet (others due to certain supplements, chemicals, cosmetics, bacteria, etc) and sedentory or poorly active lifestyle. Plus, if you include those members that have intolerances, allergiers, or sensitivities (different meanings) to foods, this further supports how significant and complicated a role diet can play.

It's these little misc. food items that people on here find they must avoid that discourages and confuses other members. Some people only have a citrus allergy or intolerance where as some others will have to give up certain carbohydrates AND citrus (this is an example). Again, this is a personal choice, a battle where you will have to find the right strategy to win, but there are plenty of possibly clues.

For some people it's one food item, for others it could be 10, so by definately keeping a food diary charting occurance of new acne (ex 2-3 or 5-7 days after eating a food item) and paying attention to the following may help you figure it out:

* Take a look at whether your family has any food allergies or intolerances. If they do, start by avoiding those foods. Being intolerant to a food, can produce acne of any size, including cystic or nodular acne.

* If any of your family members have any of those preventable diseases, start by following some form of a Low - Moderate Carbohydrate diet, like the Zone or Perricone's Acne Prescription.

* If you or your family has any hormonal, autoimmune, or gastrointestnal disorders, Insulin Resistance, or Type II Diabetes, start by avoiding Wheat, Gluten, or All Grains. If you feel that is impossible than at least consume only 100% whole grain sprouted versions with no added sugar.

* If you are a carbohydrate or sweet food junkie than start be reducing and avoiding the foods you eat the most, including your favorite foods (sometimes the body can be addicted to what is bad for it).

* If you have "mild" acne like small pimples or pustules then avoid refined foods. This would include added sugar foods (table sugar, sucrose, glucse, brown sugar, honey, evaporated cane sugar, etc) as these tend to produce those small pimples, pustules, or what I now refere to as "sugar pimples".

* If you have moderate - severe acne, start by avoiding Trans Fats (partially hydrogenated & hydrogenated oils), Dairy, Fructose Sweeteners and at least most refined carbohydrates. Fructose sweeteners are very good at giving cystic or nodular acne for some of us and include Fructose/levulose, Fructan, Fruitrim, Agave Nectar, 100% Fruti Juice, Non- 100% Fruit juice, Soft Drinks, Condiments, Breads, etc etc (read labels). Dairy products can sneak in on you too, so read the labels and be particularly weary of Whey and Casien proteins.

* If you have oily skin, large pores, and dandruff, start by STRICTLY avoiding Trans Fats, and to a lesser degree saturated fats & fried fats. Raw Tomatos and peppers of all kinds have also been implicated in these problems.

* If you are a vegan or vegetarian, be aware of how many raw foods and soy you are consuming. Certain foods known as cruciferous or brassica when raw contribute to hypothyroidism, as does excess soy consumption. The key here is moderation, and properly fermenting your vegetables and soy, or fully cooking or steaming those types before consumption. Also note that if you chose to reduce your grain consumption that Seitan = Wheat. http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthr...90&page=8&pp=10

* If you find that you are sensitive to all types of sugar including most fruits, you may have an internal/systemic yeast infection also known as candida. This condition can be created entirely from antibiotic ABUSE! If this applies, then you will have to follow the diets, detoxes, or other regimen to clear the candida (see other threads in forum).

[blackbirdbeatle]

For fats, I'm starting to be a believer in virgin coconut oil(I don't really get why organic is better if you understand how coconuts grow). My skin is so thick right now, but smooth. It looks like the skin I had before puberty(By looking at pictures). The health benefits are amazing and all the science behind the healthy cholesterol levels and saturated fats link is very sketchy(I'm getting my cholesterol level checked in a month just to see if I'm right).

Also I eat a lot of monosaturated fats such as extra virgin olive oil, not just the omega 3 polyunsaturated ones. I suppose that in the end I eat plenty of all three fats, just sticking to the healthier ones.

I don't know if I'm wrong but I feel better than I ever have(By adding in more fats). I'm thinking before my fat intake wasn't even 15% of my total calories, whereas now it's all good fats and I'm getting close to 30%.

Of course this is just me and if Jade thinks this is bad for other types(As in more food sensitive people) feel free to point that out.

[SweetJade1980]

For fats, I'm starting to be a believer in virgin coconut oil(I don't really get why organic is better if you understand how coconuts grow). My skin is so thick right now, but smooth. It looks like the skin I had before puberty(By looking at pictures). The health benefits are amazing and all the science behind the healthy cholesterol levels and saturated fats link is very sketchy(I'm getting my cholesterol level checked in a month just to see if I'm right).

Also I eat a lot of monosaturated fats such as extra virgin olive oil, not just the omega 3 polyunsaturated ones. I suppose that in the end I eat plenty of all three fats, just sticking to the healthier ones.

I don't know if I'm wrong but I feel better than I ever have(By adding in more fats). I'm thinking before my fat intake wasn't even 15% of my total calories, whereas now it's all good fats and I'm getting close to 30%.

Of course this is just me and if Jade thinks this is bad for other types(As in more food sensitive people) feel free to point that out.

Ahh, but I don't. =) I use olive oil when I make dressings, bake, or fry, and if you are going to intentionally eat saturated fats, go for the non-animal types Unrefined Palm & Unrefined Coconut Oil. I personally do not watch my animal saturated fat content, but I know it's less because I eat less fast food & prepared foods, and I eat way less fried food, but I don't intentionally watch it. However, I mentioned it because I am eating less, and I know that it contributes to increased IGF-1 & Inflammatory products which, those of us that are on these diets, avoid other foods for this very reason. Plus, others have definately noticed a difference when they watch this type of fat, so included it is.

Please take care =)

[cjb]

I'm with BBB on the coconut oil. It is the best oil to bake or fry with as it doesn't become denatured at high heat. If you heat olive oil above 325 degrees, you just have an expensive carcinogen.