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#1 bryan

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:02 PM

I'm a regular poster on hair loss forums, and another poster on one of them recently made the startling claim that spironolactone (I'll call it "spiro" from now on) at reasonable doses almost COMPLETELY reduced the amount of sebum that his body produces!! Here's one of the things he said to me (I corrected a misspelling he made):

"Dude, there was TONS of sebum all over my forehead before I took spiro. I started taking 100mg of spiro orally. Within just a few days there was almost NO sebum. It isn't a 'close call', its a TOTAL night and day difference..."

Spiro is a prescription drug, so most of you will need a doctor's prescription, unless you know a way to get it from overseas sources. Spiro definitely has antiandrogenic properties, so it's not completely out of the question that it could possibly reduce sebum production; but what really surprised me is the claim that such a relatively small amount of it (100 mg per day) could have such an effect. Do I believe what that guy told me? I'm not sure, but I promised him I'd tell the rest of you about it here on acne.org. Use CAUTION when experimenting with this drug!!

#2 Green Gables

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

Yes, spiro is often prescribed to women for acne, hirsutism, alopecia, and PCOS. It has been prescribed to men but usually not in doses over 50mg. We talk about it a lot on the Hormonal subforum on acne.org.

Spiro is an estrogenic anti-androgen. Meaning it mutes excess androgens (which cause oil and hair loss) but it also promotes estrogen to a small amount. If a man takes too much spironolactone he could experience feminizing effects (man boobs, fat deposits in the hips/butt).

From my research, 100mg is perfect for women, in fact that is my dose and many other women on this board, but in the long run this will be too much for men.

If you would like the effects without the feminization, don't dose over 50mg of spiro, or take a NON-ESTROGENIC anti-androgen such as

Flutamide (prescription)

Natural over the counter (recommended dosage for males 300mg-1000mg a day).
Saw palmetto
Stinging nettle
Pygeum
Pumpkin seed oil

Edited by Green Gables, 27 September 2012 - 01:16 PM.

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How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#3 bryan

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

It doesn't surprise me that spiro is still prescribed to women, but not to men (you can read about its known antiandrogenic effects in the Physician's Desk Reference). What confuses me, though, is your claim that spiro is an "estrogenic antiandrogen", or that it "promotes estrogen" to some degree. I've never seen such a claim anywhere else, and I'd like to know if there's any science behind it.

#4 13yearsofAcne

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:33 PM

Thanks for sharing. I tried to source some Spiro a few years back but it isn't prescribed to males apparently.

How does this dude source his supply?

It's not a dude called 'Joeh' by any chance is it? I've come across him before on other forums.

Edited by 13yearsofAcne, 27 September 2012 - 01:36 PM.


#5 Green Gables

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:26 PM

Thanks for sharing. I tried to source some Spiro a few years back but it isn't prescribed to males apparently.

How does this dude source his supply?

It's not a dude called 'Joeh' by any chance is it? I've come across him before on other forums.


You have to find a non-conventional doctor, buy without a prescription online, or jack your supply from a female friend. Most doctors stopped prescribing spironolactone to males over a decado ago.

It doesn't surprise me that spiro is still prescribed to women, but not to men (you can read about its known antiandrogenic effects in the Physician's Desk Reference). What confuses me, though, is your claim that spiro is an "estrogenic antiandrogen", or that it "promotes estrogen" to some degree. I've never seen such a claim anywhere else, and I'd like to know if there's any science behind it.


Estrogenic

Spironolactone has some estrogenic effects which it mediates via several indirect actions, including the following:

  • By acting as an antiandrogen, since androgens suppress both estrogen production and activity.[30][48]
  • Displacement of estrogens from sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).[35] This occurs because spironolactone binds to SHBG at a high rate, as do endogenous estrogens and androgens, but estrogens like estradiol and estrone are more easily displaced than are androgens like testosterone, and so spironolactone blocks relatively more estrogens from interacting with SHBG than it does androgens, resulting in a higher ratio of free estrogens to free androgens.[49]
  • Inhibition of the conversion of estradiol to estrone, resulting in an increase in the ratio of estradiol to estrone.[50] This is important because estradiol is approximately 10 times as potent as estrone as an estrogen.[51]
  • Enhancement of the rate of peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, resulting in lower testosterone and higher estradiol levels.[36]


That enough science for you? Posted Image

Edited by Green Gables, 27 September 2012 - 02:25 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

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How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#6 bryan

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:06 PM

How does this dude source his supply?

It's not a dude called 'Joeh' by any chance is it? I've come across him before on other forums.


I don't think he's ever stated how he gets his spiro. The name he uses is "SaltyNuts". It's on Hair Loss Help.


It doesn't surprise me that spiro is still prescribed to women, but not to men (you can read about its known antiandrogenic effects in the Physician's Desk Reference). What confuses me, though, is your claim that spiro is an "estrogenic antiandrogen", or that it "promotes estrogen" to some degree. I've never seen such a claim anywhere else, and I'd like to know if there's any science behind it.


Estrogenic

Spironolactone has some estrogenic effects which it mediates via several indirect actions, including the following:

  • By acting as an antiandrogen, since androgens suppress both estrogen production and activity.[30][48]
  • Displacement of estrogens from sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).[35] This occurs because spironolactone binds to SHBG at a high rate, as do endogenous estrogens and androgens, but estrogens like estradiol and estrone are more easily displaced than are androgens like testosterone, and so spironolactone blocks relatively more estrogens from interacting with SHBG than it does androgens, resulting in a higher ratio of free estrogens to free androgens.[49]
  • Inhibition of the conversion of estradiol to estrone, resulting in an increase in the ratio of estradiol to estrone.[50] This is important because estradiol is approximately 10 times as potent as estrone as an estrogen.[51]
  • Enhancement of the rate of peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, resulting in lower testosterone and higher estradiol levels.[36]


That enough science for you? Posted Image


Yes, that pretty much does it for me! Posted Image

#7 Clearwaters

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:12 AM

Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?

#8 Green Gables

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?


Well, excess DHT happens in men all the time. It contributes to hair loss and low sperm count and bad prostate. Anything that treats those conditions, such as Finasteride, lowers the DHT. Too much of a "man" hormone is not good for either sex.

Saw palmetto is a natural anti-androgen and although it can be used by both sexes, it is marketed almost exclusively to males for prostate health. As a female, when I was taking saw palmetto I felt a little funny with a big "FOR BETTER PROSTATE" slapped across the front Posted Image

Other thing is that most anti-DHT just lower the DHT. Spiro is unique in that it actually raises estrogen as well. Saw palmetto, stinging nettle, etc. lower your DHT but they don't actively raise estrogens.

And to answer your question, YES excess DHT causes oily skin. This is WHY doctors discovered anti-androgens helped acne in the first place, because they noticed when your DHT is high your oil production goes crazy. When I started taking spiro my T-zone oiliness stopped dead in its tracks. I'm not overly dry (like Accutane) but a normal dry.

Edited by Green Gables, 28 September 2012 - 08:56 AM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

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How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#9 bryan

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?


I think there's a general misconception among the public that an excessive amount of male hormone (testosterone and DHT) is what causes certain problems like hair loss and oily skin. I don't think people appreciate the sensitivity that certain body structures can have (like hair follicles and sebaceous glands) to androgens, and be influenced by them. I think that's a more important factor than just the overall level of androgens.

#10 Green Gables

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:07 PM


Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?


I think there's a general misconception among the public that an excessive amount of male hormone (testosterone and DHT) is what causes certain problems like hair loss and oily skin. I don't think people appreciate the sensitivity that certain body structures can have (like hair follicles and sebaceous glands) to androgens, and be influenced by them. I think that's a more important factor than just the overall level of androgens.


What I understand is that hormonal sensitivity is generally one of the following:

1) Brushed off as "genetic" or "we just don't know why some people are more sensitive than others to normal hormone levels"
2) Caused by years of excess in the hormone, e.g. a really long and traumatic puberty stage correlates with hormonal problems later in life, so although the DHT may not be excessive in the guy who is balding at 25, his DHT levels at puberty were probably higher than necessary
3) "Sensitivity" is meant to mean that the body is not regulating hormones properly, e.g. low progesterone leads to high estrogen because progesterone regulates estrogen. In this case, though, that really is a levels problem...

Have you found other research about this topic? I'm really curious because my personal doctors have generally written off sensitivities as genetic, and what are you gonna do about bad genes?

Edited by Green Gables, 28 September 2012 - 09:08 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#11 bryan

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:19 AM

What I understand is that hormonal sensitivity is generally one of the following:

1) Brushed off as "genetic" or "we just don't know why some people are more sensitive than others to normal hormone levels"
2) Caused by years of excess in the hormone, e.g. a really long and traumatic puberty stage correlates with hormonal problems later in life, so although the DHT may not be excessive in the guy who is balding at 25, his DHT levels at puberty were probably higher than necessary
3) "Sensitivity" is meant to mean that the body is not regulating hormones properly, e.g. low progesterone leads to high estrogen because progesterone regulates estrogen. In this case, though, that really is a levels problem...

Have you found other research about this topic? I'm really curious because my personal doctors have generally written off sensitivities as genetic, and what are you gonna do about bad genes?


Here's something that I consider to be an excellent example of a difference in "sensitivity", and it has to do with hair loss: stumptailed macaques are monkeys that have small frontal bald spots on their scalps, and they make excellent subjects for testing a variety of drugs, because they go bald for reasons that are very similar to humans. A great many drugs were first tested on macaques, including topical minoxidil, oral finasteride, topical RU58841, and others.

Now here's what I'm getting to: a few years ago, a fascinating experiment was performed on stumptailed macaques. Hair follicles from the balding area were extracted from their scalps, and were then exposed to testosterone in an in vitro manner. Not surprisingly, the researchers found that the testosterone suppressed the growth of the follicles; that wasn't unexpected because the very same thing has been observed with balding human hair follicles. Androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair, in both humans and stumptailed macaques!

But they did one other part of the test which, to the best of my knowledge, has never been done with humans: they did exactly the same test (adding testosterone to scalp hair follicles) of macaques who were young enough that they didn't yet have any balding. The scientists were surprised to find that the testosterone HAD NO EFFECT on the younger monkeys' follicles! Obviously, the hair follicles of the pre-pubertal monkeys were much more insensitive to androgens than the older monkeys, and had no danger of going bald. The insensitivity probably had something to do with the fundamental design of the hair follciles, and was most likely a genetic factor that's affected by age.

Edited by bryan, 29 September 2012 - 02:23 AM.


#12 Clearwaters

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:46 AM


Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?


I think there's a general misconception among the public that an excessive amount of male hormone (testosterone and DHT) is what causes certain problems like hair loss and oily skin.  I don't think people appreciate the sensitivity that certain body structures can have (like hair follicles and sebaceous glands) to androgens, and be influenced by them.  I think that's a more important factor than just the overall level of androgens.



Ok, well I have no misconception, only questions. Questions that I want factual answers for because I respect more what is known, rather than thought. Just like you Bryan :)

Righteo, so this is very interesting that you brought this point up. After doing some more probing about on the subject (inspired by this thread) I happened to come across this very same information myself and thought I must bring it back to the thread in my response to Green Gables. This would be for clarification, not contradiction purposes, of course. Because to be honest, I'm still confused when it comes androgens. If it's a sensitivity issue, and not an excess, then taking something to lower testosterone/DHT would be a rather off-target, roundabout and inefficient way of treating the root cause of hairloss and acne/oily skin alike. It's confusing, and hard to decipher between what the scientific community has established as fact and what is just theorized. 

I'm actually not entirely unfamiliar with this notion of sensitivity. When I first started having hairloss issues I was introduced it and that's mainly why I discontinued what I was taking internally and started on medicated topicals, which I've had some rather good success with. This thread mentioning hairloss and acne together just got me to thinking if I my case there could be a correlation. I guess asking if it is common for people who present with hairloss issues to also have problems with acne/oil skin, and to somewhat gauge the likelihood that in my case the two are in relation with each other.

With Finasteride, when people with hair loss have success with it, is that because of what I spoke about earlier - About it having an indirect effect? As if its only working simply because there's less testosterone/DHT to be sensitive to, rather than its function of reducing levels of the hormone that might not have been in excess to begin with? 

#13 Clearwaters

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:08 AM


Lordy. So I have hair loss issues and extraordinarily oily skin. Is it safe to say the same hormonal imbalance is responsible for both conditions? And if antiandrogenic drugs/supplements treat these conditions by way of increasing female hormones (or something of the sort) is that to say the sufferer has an excess of males hormone(s) in their system?


Well, excess DHT happens in men all the time. It contributes to hair loss and low sperm count and bad prostate. Anything that treats those conditions, such as Finasteride, lowers the DHT. Too much of a "man" hormone is not good for either sex.

Saw palmetto is a natural anti-androgen and although it can be used by both sexes, it is marketed almost exclusively to males for prostate health. As a female, when I was taking saw palmetto I felt a little funny with a big "FOR BETTER PROSTATE" slapped across the front Posted Image

Other thing is that most anti-DHT just lower the DHT. Spiro is unique in that it actually raises estrogen as well. Saw palmetto, stinging nettle, etc. lower your DHT but they don't actively raise estrogens.

And to answer your question, YES excess DHT causes oily skin. This is WHY doctors discovered anti-androgens helped acne in the first place, because they noticed when your DHT is high your oil production goes crazy. When I started taking spiro my T-zone oiliness stopped dead in its tracks. I'm not overly dry (like Accutane) but a normal dry.


And thank you Green Gables, for you response. I appreciate the details you always put in your posts and replies. Very helpful :)

Of course, Ive posed more questions in my to reply to Bryan and that then indirectly responds to what you've put here but I'd be really interested in knowing more about what you wrote later in regards to sensitivity issues being an exposure related thing, after years of excessively high hormones. And the approach to treatment that applies when that's the case. And also how one would establish if that is a contributing factor?

Thanks! So many questions, haha.

Edited by Clearwaters, 29 September 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#14 Green Gables

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

This is interesting, Energetic Nutrition makes a progesterone cream for men. Progesterone is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, prevents conversion of DHT to testosterone. Advantage of progesterone over spironolactone is it does not promote estrogen, it actually helps regulate estrogen, and it has NO FEMINIZING effects.

Also, here is a quote on the use of progesterone is men:

Males make progesterone. They need it to make their testosterone and for the adrenal glands to make cortisone. Males synthesize progesterone in amounts less than women do but it is still vital. You can measure male's progesterone levels, and you'll find that when the woman has this follicle damage I'm talking about, the amount of progesterone she makes is less than that of a male.

Men with BPH (swelling of the prostate) and other male related problems will appreciate the speed of relief with progesterone cream. Dr. Lee recommends that men use 8 - 12 mg of progesterone daily. Progesterone has NO feminizing characteristics. Progesterone is an 5-alpha reductase inhibitor -- it helps prevent the conversion of testosterone into DHT.

Progesterone may also help men with complexion and increased energy. Progesterone balances the estrogens that build in a man's body. Furthermore, it may be important in the prevention and/or treatment of prostatism and prostate cancer. Dr Lee has had men contact him telling him that as a result of applying progesterone cream to their wife they were seeing that their symptoms of prostatism such as urinary urgency and frequency decreased considerably. Several men with prostate cancer reported that their PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen) level decreased and they have had no progression of their prostate lesions since using the cream themselves. Another man contacted Dr Lee to say his bone metastases are now no longer visible by Mayo Clinic X-ray tests. After reviewing endocrinology books in regard to hormone changes in older men Dr Lee found that progesterone levels drop, estradiol levels rise, and testosterone changes in form in older men. This is significant enough to warrant research to determine if the application of progesterone can be used to prevent prostate cancer.

Dr Lee has pointed to research that suggests that too much progesterone in men can prevent sperm maturation possibly acting as a contraceptive. Since both progesterone and testosterone work to build new bone, progesterone can be useful for castrated men (common procedure for prostate cancer) in protecting against osteoporosis as in women.

Edited by Green Gables, 04 October 2012 - 11:41 PM.

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How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#15 Binga

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:03 AM

Don't know about oily skin but I have started doing hardcore yoga including headstand and shoulderstand and my hair has been growing like crazy. Supposedly strengthens the hormonal glands and improves blood flow to the head.

#16 armadillo

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

To anyone reading this topic: please do not be tempted to buy spironolactone or any prescription medication from an online 'vendor'. It is not legal to buy prescription medicines off the internet and it is definitely not safe. They could be selling you anything under the name spironolactone. There are no rules/regulations for these companies - because they are operating illegally most of them are closed down after a couple of months, if you get sick from whatever they've sold to you, there are no refunds, no customer service, and most importantly no compensation - if you get ill, you will have to pay for your own hospital bill. Not to mention that you can never know for 100% what is in those pills. Buying from an online vendor is no different from buying from a dealer off the street.

Besides it is a prescription medicine for a reason - because it isn't safe to be given to anyone. You will need blood tests to determine that a hormonal treatment is right for you or not. Without tests you can't even know for sure that you suffer from hormonal imbalance. If you think you are, you need to talk to your doctor.

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#17 Green Gables

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:25 PM

Most legal, licensed doctors prescribe plenty of hormonal treatments without any sort of blood tests. That's what birth control is. It's choosing to synthetically modify the entire hormonal process in a woman. What are they gonna blood test you for, something to prove you're a woman? Even birth controls with increased blood clot risks don't have pre-tests. You just have to look closely at your family history and monitor yourself.

Anti-androgens such as spironolactone are also prescribed without any blood tests. A very conservative doctor might test your potassium levels for the first year you're on spiro. Many doctors just tell you to watch for side effects and to call if they're serious.

Hell, look into what doctors do for PCOS. PCOS is often treated on symptoms alone because there are women with bad PCOS symptoms without ovarian cysts and hormone levels in range. They still give them an array of prescription drugs without a test to "prove" they're PCOS.

However, I don't condone buying prescription drugs without a prescription. That said, it is legal to buy prescription drugs with a prescription from a pharmacy online. Drugstore.com is just one example of where I can fax in my doctor's prescription and have them fill and mail my script to me, all without any shady practices. Blue Cross & Blue Shield even has an online service where you can Skype with a doctor and they can write a prescription for you. Just because something's online doesn't mean it's run by the boogey man Posted Image

Armadillo, I appreciate your sentiments however it feels like (in many of your posts) you are fear-mongering and just want everyone to go to a doctor to magically solve their problems. If everyone found resolution through the advice of a dermatologist, why would acne.org exist? Dan went to a dermatologist, went on Accutane, and his acne persisted. Many of us have been to several doctors and have basically had to self-diagnose and convince a doctor to give us a treatment that actually worked for us Posted Image

Edited by Green Gables, 08 October 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#18 armadillo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:40 AM

Most legal, licensed doctors prescribe plenty of hormonal treatments without any sort of blood tests. That's what birth control is. It's choosing to synthetically modify the entire hormonal process in a woman. What are they gonna blood test you for, something to prove you're a woman? Even birth controls with increased blood clot risks don't have pre-tests. You just have to look closely at your family history and monitor yourself.

Anti-androgens such as spironolactone are also prescribed without any blood tests. A very conservative doctor might test your potassium levels for the first year you're on spiro. Many doctors just tell you to watch for side effects and to call if they're serious.

Hell, look into what doctors do for PCOS. PCOS is often treated on symptoms alone because there are women with bad PCOS symptoms without ovarian cysts and hormone levels in range. They still give them an array of prescription drugs without a test to "prove" they're PCOS.

However, I don't condone buying prescription drugs without a prescription. That said, it is legal to buy prescription drugs with a prescription from a pharmacy online. Drugstore.com is just one example of where I can fax in my doctor's prescription and have them fill and mail my script to me, all without any shady practices. Blue Cross & Blue Shield even has an online service where you can Skype with a doctor and they can write a prescription for you. Just because something's online doesn't mean it's run by the boogey man Posted Image

Armadillo, I appreciate your sentiments however it feels like (in many of your posts) you are fear-mongering and just want everyone to go to a doctor to magically solve their problems. If everyone found resolution through the advice of a dermatologist, why would acne.org exist? Dan went to a dermatologist, went on Accutane, and his acne persisted. Many of us have been to several doctors and have basically had to self-diagnose and convince a doctor to give us a treatment that actually worked for us Posted Image


I'm not saying going to a doctor will magically solve your problems, because it won't. I wasn't specifying that for X medicine you need XY bloodtests and that's it, but in the UK you do need blood tests before you can take spironolactone, and I was talking about hormonal problems in general.

Unfortunately, self-diagnosing is one of pet peeves, and the reason for that is there is generally more harm in self-diagnosing yourself, for the majority of people, than good. Yes, some people can diagnose themselves, but I don't think anyone should be encouraging that you try out a treatment, such as taking spironolactone, just because you have oily skin and you convince yourself that you must have a hormonal issue, then go to some dodgy online pharmacy and speak to some humbuk doctor who will prescribe you anything you want.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just saying that you cannot trusts online pharmacies that sell prescription drugs without a prescription, because they are simply not safe or legal.

I'm not saying you can't give suggestions to your doctor, I'm just saying that you, yourself should not try and diagnose an issue without any medical help and try a serious/potentially hazardous treatment when you don't even know whether it's safe or not, without talking to a doctor.

Finished Tetralysal on 12/04/13

Quinoderm 10 once a week

Gedarel 30/150 as current treatment.


#19 tritonxiv

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

I think there's a general misconception among the public that an excessive amount of male hormone (testosterone and DHT) is what causes certain problems like hair loss and oily skin. I don't think people appreciate the sensitivity that certain body structures can have (like hair follicles and sebaceous glands) to androgens, and be influenced by them. I think that's a more important factor than just the overall level of androgens.


The study you posted is fairly convincing for the hair follicle. But I don't think the sensitivity connection can be made to sebaceous glands without similar experiments. There are those who have perfectly dry skin and plenty of hair loss, so we can infer the two are not necessarily connected. If this theory was applicable to sebaceous glands, the inverse would have to be true, as sebaceous glands, and acne seem to become less prevalent as age, or at the very least, they don't become more prevalent.

I realize the hormone / acne connection is very real. After all, it is what has been aggravating my acne for all these years. Abstaining from orgasms is "all" I have to do to remain clear, and now I am curious as to the mechanisms behind this, and what I might possibly do to maintain a normal lifestyle. Some have suggested Saw Palmetto, Spiro, and others. However after ten years of accutane I refuse to take any more prescription medications to treat my face. I am currently waiting on the results of the poster who is taking saw palmetto in tandem with normal sexual activity and I am anxious to hear the results.

#20 Homer0001

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:56 AM

If you would like the effects without the feminization... take a NON-ESTROGENIC anti-androgen such as

Flutamide (prescription)

Natural over the counter (recommended dosage for males 300mg-1000mg a day).
Saw palmetto
Stinging nettle
Pygeum
Pumpkin seed oil


Ok, so what are the arguments AGAINST this entire thread?

You and Bryan seem pretty sure that anti-androgens will solve oily skin issues for a lot of people. So why not we all (males and females) just take saw palmetto and call it a day?

/devil's advocate