15 replies to this topic

[Caterpillargirl]

I've been a troll in this group, and read all over the web for well over a year now trying to find answers to my acne and scarring. I hope that someone will find this helpful. (sorry for the long post- this is a bit therapeutic for me too... to get this all out)

I'm quite shy by nature and always embarrassed over my skin. The cystic acne in my early years was bad enough but the lifelong effects I think are worse. I gave up on acne treatment many years ago after Retin A. This was back when there weren't a lot of options for acne- accutane, Retin A and antibiotics. It made my skin dry, crack and ooze.... while breaking out at the same time. Even after the recommended adjustment period. I'm 40 now and have decided I've suffered enough. I used the acne.org regimen and it has helped quite a bit to reduce overall acne. I have very sensitive skin so even the low dose on the benzoyl peroxide was irritating for a while (puffy red eyes and almost unbearably itchy skin) I tend to get itchy acne... which caused scratching and picking- more scars over the years in addition to the ones from cystic and chicken pox at 15.

I read a lot about Copper Peptides, and a month ago decided to start them. They sounded very scary (my sensitive itchy skin) but I ordered to trial pack for scarring. (Skin Biology) I immediately regretted it when I realized that it came with strong product. However I have used it as directed with absolutely NO irritation, in fact my skin LOVES it. It seems to control my acne well, if I do get a pimple, it disappears almost immediately. I have severe scarring, rolling, icepick, boxcar, small keloids... name it. What I noticed with the CPs is an overall smoothness to the skin and a big change in my keloids, even within a week. They began to look flat and wide (no that doesn't sound better to be wider but at least they are CHANGING) I even noticed some I didn't realize were keloids because of the flat appearance they started taking on. I hadn't seen a change in my deep scars, but I do assume over a good deal of time I would see some change. I haven't yet experienced any of the "uglies" that I've read about. I had made the decision to try rolling before I ordered the CP's... I felt like this was a step to "ready" my skin.. in addition to changing my diet (which I have done for about 6 months) and supplements. (daily multi, omegas through chia seed and occasional fish oil, cranberry (unrelated) D-3 and a probiotic. I eat berries and yogurt daily and include as much fresh or "raw" food as I can. I would like to actually try something stronger than the super cp and maybe someone can direct me... it seems my skin can handle it easily.

I knew I would try rolling- that decision was made a year ago but I was afraid that doing myself- I would not do it right, cause more damage or infection. There was not anyone within a 6 hour drive who did the treatments. As I readied myself to order the items for home rolling, one random google search brought me someone who does rolling IN MY TOWN. I was so thrilled. I did a consult with her. She gave me a lot of good information that, to me, explains some of the mixed results people are seeing in their rolling.


I see a lot of questions and debate over dermarolling. I don't know where this will lead me, but this is my choice of treatment after a lot of research. I started out thinking I would go for laser, but what I read was very discouraging, not enough results, more damage and scarring, high cost. Reading about the mechanism of dermarolling made sense to me.

What I learned on my consult that I did not find anywhere else (she is selling a service- I bear this in mind and take everything with a grain of salt)
- the roller makes a difference- the lower cost ones are inferior in that the needles can wiggle in the skin and can cause more scarring
- the lower cost rollers do not penetrate to the depth they claim to
- THE dermaroller is very high cost and for professionals for a reason
- skin thickness makes a difference. Those with thinner skin, have less collagen to stimulate- their bodies likely tend to metabolize it more than those with thicker skin. Thicker skin responds better to rolling.

She recommended a course of 4 rolls, spaced 3-4 months apart. I scheduled my first one which I had today. This is my experience.

It was 500 usd for a treatment. A nurse is on site (I guess to be DERMAROLLER certified they need to have one) as I had to travel to a slightly farther location to have it done. She did not promise me life changing results. Her exact words were that she would rather undersell the results and have me happy than to promise huge results and there be disappointment, as everyone is different- and what we do at home in the interim is as important as the treatment itself. She said that in general 50% improvement can be expected. The dermaroller website says 70- 80%...

She had originally intended on using a 1.5 on me. I had hoped for a longer needle (I know longer is better) and luckily when the nurse looked at me, and noted my thick skin she suggested a 2.5. Yes, there is an increased risk in infection as well as more pain with a longer needle. I was really thrilled to have the longer needle. I readied myself for a great deal of pain.... however this was MUCH less painful than I anticipated. They did use a numbing cream, let me sit to penetrate then started rolling.

One thing that really struck me is that she was MUCH MORE aggressive than I would have ever been doing it myself. Overall, the pain was less than one of my bad headaches... however there are a few tender spots that did cause me to cringe just a bit- around the lips, on the brow bone, and beside and on the nose. The cheeks and forehead- I almost didn't feel at all. Though she warned me that the discomfort would grow a lot through the process I honestly felt like I could have done another hour lol. The numbing cream was only lidocaine so I may just have a high pain threshold- in addition to just being COMPLETELY READY to change my life.

I wasn't a big bleeder, just spotted some (everyone is different) and did not bruise (some do bruise even from lesser needle length) I think she rolled for about an hour. I feel like for what I paid- I got my monies worth in terms of attempt- she was VERY aggressive. Now.... results... we don't know. I'm hoping for the best since the majority of my issues were chicken pox, boxcar and rolling. My thick skin with a good deal of collagen might be a bit of a blessing for me. *crosses fingers*

I was able to drive myself home... was a bit tender and burned feeling. I am EXTREMELY red. They say it will be like a sunburn but for me it is worse (I'm very pale) Within about an hour or two the tenderness diminished A LOT. It has been about 8 hours since my roll and it feels like only a mild sunburn- though still VERY red with some areas that appear blood spotted.

Aftercare- I'm not to touch it today, no products. I am able to use neosporin starting tomorrow (I figure they do it for tattoos so I will do it for the rolling) and I can wash it with a mild soap tomorrow. Make up is allowed within 2 days. I am going to opt for neosporin and no make up (I work at home so I can baby it a bit more than someone who has to go out right away) 1000mg of Vitamin C is recommended, as well as zinc and magnesium. I should have started these before the rolling, but I jumped quickly to have it done. I'll start them tonight. CPs can be used in 2 days though the exfoliants that were included in the (lactic acid, salicalic acid) cannot be used for at least a week. NO anti inflamatories or antihistamines are allowed- the swelling is part of the process and needs to be allowed to take its course.

I know everyone wants before and after pics. I think this is important for me to show as well so that others can get a good feeling of (only one persons) results. I did take before pics myself but I think they didn't show the severity of the scarring enough. The ones taken at the spa seemed better (worse) (fluorescent lighting is a horrible thing- I think any of us with scarring knows that!) I will post the ones I took shortly, and will try to get the ones from the spa, if they will, as I really want to share this with people who are suffering. I don't know what will come of this but I want to share it. I'll also include the immediate after pics, as well as those through the week and in a month, and 2 months (2 months shows the results of the roll- however collagen formation can continue through 1 year to 16 months) I am realistic. I don't expect a miracle after my first roll. If I see a difference, I'll be happy. If I don't.. I will continue anyway. I know it can take well up to a year to get full effect.

Again I hope this will help others and I am happy to help anyone who has questions. We are in this struggle together

Edited by Caterpillargirl, 21 July 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[allrighty]

Good luck, interesting post, let u sknow how u get on with it okay??

[KATE75]

After being unable to find a doctor in my area willing to do subcision, I started dermastamping my scars a couple of weeks ago and will continue to do so every six weeks. I did a lot of research on the subject also and decided to give it a go on my own. My chin (where my scars are) was very red for a few days but then it calmed down and is now the same as before. I know if I see improvement it won't be for at least ten months so I am having to be very patient - which I'm not good at!

From what I have read a 1.5mm needle is supposedly the "gold standard" for microneedling facial scars.As well as my 1.5mm dermastamp, I have purchased some single needles from "owndoc.com" which are about 2mm for my deepest scars but I have never heard of 2.5mm needles being used on the face?

Then again, I don't know what your scars are like and I am far from being an expert on the subject!

Best of luck with your dermarolling treatments. I look forward to reading your updates.

Edited by KATE75, 21 July 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Caterpillargirl]

ok pics as I promised- Eeeek. Again- I don't think these show very well the extent of my scarring but will post anyway

Today is tight and itchy, flaking on my chin, some brown spotting on my right cheek, still some spotty looking blood in a few places- oozing has pretty much stopped

After being unable to find a doctor in my area willing to do subcision, I started dermastamping my scars a couple of weeks ago and will continue to do so every six weeks. I did a lot of research on the subject also and decided to give it a go on my own. My chin (where my scars are) was very red for a few days but then it calmed down and is now the same as before. I know if I see improvement it won't be for at least ten months so I am having to be very patient - which I'm not good at!

From what I have read a 1.5mm needle is supposedly the "gold standard" for microneedling facial scars.As well as my 1.5mm dermastamp, I have purchased some single needles from "owndoc.com" which are about 2mm for my deepest scars but I have never heard of 2.5mm needles being used on the face?

Then again, I don't know what your scars are like and I am far from being an expert on the subject!

Best of luck with your dermarolling treatments. I look forward to reading your updates.

I wish you huge luck in it. This process is definitely one in patience and and tenacity. But I bear in mind it took years for me to look like this- It is going to take time for it to be undone. 2.0 is actually what I've read as the "gold standard" in a professional setting but you are right, most home users will use a 1.5 because of the increased risk of infection, plus I honestly think from how seriously aggressive she was- not many people could properly use much longer. While she was aggressive she didn't "push" ridiculously hard with the 2.5, so I'm guessing the penetration was a bit less than the full length. Either way- I would rather go longer and more aggressive, I've read enough that convinces me that is where the best results are.

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Edited by Caterpillargirl, 24 July 2012 - 02:38 AM.

[Caterpillargirl]

Day After pics. I promised pics, those reading will get sick of looking at them lol. I do still want to get the ones from the salon under the harsh fluorescents, but I hope these all give enough of an idea. You can see the white on my chin.. ready to just slough off.. the brown spots on my jawline on right side and still really quite red- you can see how pale I am too.

Good luck, interesting post, let u sknow how u get on with it okay??

Thank you- updated with lots of before, after and next day pics

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[allrighty]

I wouldnt be doing this urself this the larger needles, too riskly, go to a dr who does it...

[Caterpillargirl]

I wouldnt be doing this urself this the larger needles, too riskly, go to a dr who does it...

I COMPLETELY agree, I would not go over a 1.5 with home use. Do not want infection or more damage. I would also get the Highest quality roller you can get and even at 1.5, use the most extreme cleanliness precautions. This is a medical procedure, and needs to be respected as such.

[KATE75]

I wouldnt be doing this urself this the larger needles, too riskly, go to a dr who does it...

I doubt a doctor can stamp a scar with a dermastamp or needle any better than I can do on myself. I have widely researched this method for almost a year and I am confident my stamping technique is just as good as any doctor/nurse/beautician charging £200 upwards.

I am also well aware of the need for extreme cleanliness when doing this procedure at home. Personally, I don't tend to make negative comments on other people's preferred scar treatments but that's just my way I suppose. Maybe it's because I'm a bit too long in the tooth that I don't take kindly to lecturing from others.

Also there are plenty of threads with people microneedling their own scars with good improvement - it's not exactly rocket science.

As I was saying previously best of luck caterpillar girl hopefully we will all be able to see some improvement in our scars with microneedling.

Edited by KATE75, 21 July 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[pokeblaa]

^ hey mind to share your tehnique?

i have a few scars but i want to try dermastamp with idk yet 1.5 or 2mm needles? also i know you need alchohol to sterilize, but how do you cleanse your skin, before after? anything else to know? :T i just want to do this at home and with quickest results

[allrighty]

Just dont go over board with it, thats alll, we would hate foru to make it worse...
good luck anyway ok.

I wouldnt be doing this urself this the larger needles, too riskly, go to a dr who does it...

I doubt a doctor can stamp a scar with a dermastamp or needle any better than I can do on myself. I have widely researched this method for almost a year and I am confident my stamping technique is just as good as any doctor/nurse/beautician charging £200 upwards.

I am also well aware of the need for extreme cleanliness when doing this procedure at home. Personally, I don't tend to make negative comments on other people's preferred scar treatments but that's just my way I suppose. Maybe it's because I'm a bit too long in the tooth that I don't take kindly to lecturing from others.

Also there are plenty of threads with people microneedling their own scars with good improvement - it's not exactly rocket science.

As I was saying previously best of luck caterpillar girl hopefully we will all be able to see some improvement in our scars with microneedling.

No one is lecturing anyone here,,, I dont know where you got that from... bit random LOL
We just want it to go well..
Alot of people have used this technique at home and made it ten times worse...

[Caterpillargirl]

aww I'm not lecturing. I know a lot are reading.. and I bear that in mind with my posts. I don't want anyone thinking to run out and get a 2.5, not knowing how to clean and sterilize and damaging themselves. Unfortunately there are some who do not put in the meticulous time to research things before they do it. There is a lot of desperation over the topic. I don't want anyone to misunderstand anything I'm posting. I know that a lot achieve results with home rolling, it just isn't my choice at this time... I will likely use smaller needles at home later for product penetration once I heal, and maybe even try rolling myself with a 1.5, but *personally* I am more comfortable to be in the hands of a pro who has done this 50 times plus. My choice isn't better than yours. It is just right for me. One of the beautiful things in life is we are all different. How boring if we were all the same and made the same choices. I just want to document MY experience for those who find it useful.

^ hey mind to share your tehnique?

i have a few scars but i want to try dermastamp with idk yet 1.5 or 2mm needles? also i know you need alchohol to sterilize, but how do you cleanse your skin, before after? anything else to know? :T i just want to do this at home and with quickest results

I believe she used hibiclens on me before and after

Edited by Caterpillargirl, 21 July 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[allrighty]

aww I'm not lecturing. I know a lot are reading.. and I bear that in mind with my posts. I don't want anyone thinking to run out and get a 2.5, not knowing how to clean and sterilize and damaging themselves. Unfortunately there are some who do not put in the meticulous time to research things before they do it. There is a lot of desperation over the topic. I don't want anyone to misunderstand anything I'm posting. I know that a lot achieve results with home rolling, it just isn't my choice at this time... I will likely use smaller needles at home later for product penetration once I heal, and maybe even try rolling myself with a 1.5, but *personally* I am more comfortable to be in the hands of a pro who has done this 50 times plus. My choice isn't better than yours. It is just right for me. One of the beautiful things in life is we are all different. How boring if we were all the same and made the same choices. I just want to document MY experience for those who find it useful.

^ hey mind to share your tehnique?

i have a few scars but i want to try dermastamp with idk yet 1.5 or 2mm needles? also i know you need alchohol to sterilize, but how do you cleanse your skin, before after? anything else to know? :T i just want to do this at home and with quickest results

I believe she used hibiclens on me before and after

Haha no ur not lecturing.. kate was going on bout being negative n her not lecturing....
I love ur post, keep it up!!

[Caterpillargirl]

aww I'm not lecturing. I know a lot are reading.. and I bear that in mind with my posts. I don't want anyone thinking to run out and get a 2.5, not knowing how to clean and sterilize and damaging themselves. Unfortunately there are some who do not put in the meticulous time to research things before they do it. There is a lot of desperation over the topic. I don't want anyone to misunderstand anything I'm posting. I know that a lot achieve results with home rolling, it just isn't my choice at this time... I will likely use smaller needles at home later for product penetration once I heal, and maybe even try rolling myself with a 1.5, but *personally* I am more comfortable to be in the hands of a pro who has done this 50 times plus. My choice isn't better than yours. It is just right for me. One of the beautiful things in life is we are all different. How boring if we were all the same and made the same choices. I just want to document MY experience for those who find it useful.

^ hey mind to share your tehnique?

i have a few scars but i want to try dermastamp with idk yet 1.5 or 2mm needles? also i know you need alchohol to sterilize, but how do you cleanse your skin, before after? anything else to know? :T i just want to do this at home and with quickest results

I believe she used hibiclens on me before and after

Haha no ur not lecturing.. kate was going on bout being negative n her not lecturing....
I love ur post, keep it up!!

I'm still learning how to post lol... if I misreference something I apologize. I did use the caveat that I *am* a noob lol. Thanks, I'll figure it out eventually

[Caterpillargirl]

Day 3... I'm not a lot less red than I was yesterday... though more of the "bad sunburn" look they spoke of more than the chemical burn lol. I have a lot of itching and a little peeling. Some irritable whiteheads (I get them when my skin gets irritated like with a cold and using tissues on my nose)

I used LED red and infrared lights today as well as the super cop. The super cop burned a bit so I may wait another day or two to try it again, I still have some tender spots. I'll continue the LED's daily. I am getting a pretty good idea of what the first roll *did not* affect much. Unfortunately I think I'll be one of the ones that don't get much result the first round. I'll see in a few more days when the redness is gone. If anyone could recommend something better than the super cop I'd like to try it in between rolls.

[Caterpillargirl]

Day 4 ITCHING!!! ugh it is worse than the rolling lol. I want to use my emu oil so bad but was told it is too soothing so I'm just suffering with it. I'm back on super cp and doing the LED's. The redness is down significantly. Am getting more angry irritated pimples on my chin.. I hope they calm down soon. I'm flaking some- dark skin with bright pink skin underneath. A little tenderness in a few spots to the touch. The moisturizer they gave me at the salon burns so I won't use it. I'm thinking maybe jojoba oil?

I took pics with sunlight and with fluorescent.. the before's are in daylight so I think I'll post those. Sadly I have a crappy camera on my phone.. but the before's and after's were taken with the same thing... so you can at least get an idea by comparison. I was hoping for HUGE microswelling and beautiful skin for a couple days but bah that isn't the case... there are differences for sure, but I'm chalking them up to the microswelling for now. Annnndddd it won't seem to let me post anymore pics so I'll have to edit my past posts i guess? fun being a noob :/

Edited- I found some of the fluorescent show the changes (or lack of them) so I'll have a mix

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Edited by Caterpillargirl, 24 July 2012 - 03:18 AM.

[Caterpillargirl]

Day 5 BREAKOUT ugh. How depressing. I've been clear for months but now my skin is freaking out. My chin particularly is going mad. I'm getting blackheads where I never had them. I'm using only the cleanser she gave me, the CPs and I used a little jojoa oil on my itchy jaw and cheeks (not breaking out there) so I'm not sure whats causing it. Still too dry, flaky and itchy to start BP, I'm thinking of trying emu oil now... any suggestions?