66 replies to this topic

[bobbi364]

a

Masturbation/sex/orgasm/ejaculation is not the only thing that ramps up DHT production. High fatty diets, high insulin, dairy/milk, processed/refined foods, and others also create pathways to higher DHT production, and does so in a different fashion in each individual. This is why some can ejaculate once a day and never have and adverse affects, while someone could do it once a week and it would be enough DHT production to cause acne, same thing works with other food/diet routines. For me ejaculation raises my DHT production 10x, however I never have any issues with food, as in, food never makes me breakout.

There are ways to help combat DHT production, and I would recommend these to all acne patients.

http://www.ehow.com/...-naturally.html

Edited by bobbi364, 28 January 2012 - 09:00 AM.

[dreamingofclearskin2011]

amen!

[bobbi364]

There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance. HOWEVER, food intolerances have many many symptoms, and it is extremely rare that acne would be the only symptom experienced, you would also have other problems, not just acne.

DHT production leads to acne because it is the number 1 androgen, it directly influences the sebum gland, which ramps up oil production when DHT is produced. This leads to baldness and acne.

Here are a few sources (HOWEVER, I AM LEAVING THIS OPEN FOR YOU TO BROWSE/RESEARCH THE NET FOR YOURSELVES):

http://www.regrow-th...inning.Hair.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715202/

[AndersCh1m]

Just because it may be the cause of acne for some, does not mean it is the enemy. Androgens are responsible for making men , men. My test and dht levels are at an all time high, due to good diet and excersize. My health, both internal and skin are also at their best, no acne anywhere. Which would point to them being neccessary for my wellbeing, not acne and hair loss.

[bobbi364]

AndersCh1m, on 28 January 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Just because it may be the cause of acne for some, does not mean it is the enemy. Androgens are responsible for making men , men. My test and dht levels are at an all time high, due to good diet and excersize. My health, both internal and skin are also at their best, no acne anywhere. Which would point to them being neccessary for my wellbeing, not acne and hair loss.

As we all know hair loss does not occur overnight. There are a handful of things that can causes acne that has nothing to do with DHT, however those are extremely rare, especially in the western diet. I do know that there is no conclusive proof that raised testosterone levels in the body from exercising will, in fact produce more DHT. It seems like this would be the logical case, but I am sure it has not been proven. Also, when we ask ourselves this question, there are many variables that we have to take into consideration: such as what accelerated positive effects does the increased metabolism from exercise give us? There is proof that exercise promotes the body to raise Serotonin levels. Serotonin, basically, is what keeps our moods on an even keel, so to speak; a mood elevator, if you will.When you exercise you raise testosterone, not always DHT levels. On another note, you say your levels are at an all time high, compared to what? when? There is no baseline for DHT, it is more of a peak, drop, peak, drop, sinusoidal pattern.

[dejaclairevoyant]

Quote

There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance.

Thanks for mentioning that. Because that was the cause of acne for many of us.

[bobbi364]

dejaclairevoyant, on 28 January 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Quote

There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance.

Thanks for mentioning that. Because that was the cause of acne for many of us.

I'm not shy to admit that food intolerances can cause ance. Do you have other symptoms?

[dejaclairevoyant]

O yeah. I had chronic depression/anxiety, hives, full coverage psoriasis, low energy, insomnia, "restless leg syndrome", constipation, gut pain, nausea, and a number of other weird, hard to describe symtoms. The list of things that have been cured by removing gluten, corn, dairy and soy from my diet just goes on and on and on...

[bobbi364]

dejaclairevoyant, on 28 January 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

O yeah. I had chronic depression/anxiety, hives, full coverage psoriasis, low energy, insomnia, "restless leg syndrome", constipation, gut pain, nausea, and a number of other weird, hard to describe symtoms. The list of things that have been cured by removing gluten, corn, dairy and soy from my diet just goes on and on and on...

Wow, I am sorry to hear, that, but at least you figured it out, good job.

[InNeed]

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Edited by InNeed, 31 January 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[bobbi364]

InNeed, on 28 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

I have to play devil's advocate and post this link.

http://www.mikemahle...-androgens.html

I posted it in another thread, but this one seems to be more specific to the information.

"According to Jonathan Wright, M.D. (Maximize Your Vitality And Potency) the balance of DHT and 4-androstenedione should be 1:1. If DHT is higher and androstenedione lower, it creates a pro-carcinogenic state. However, if DHT and androstenedione levels are both high and at a 1:1 ratio, the pro-carcinogenic properties of high DHT are neutralized by the anti-carcinogenic properties of androstenedione. So if you've had blood work indicating high DHT levels, be sure to have the androstenedione levels measure as well."

What are the side effects? All you state is that it is bad if one has high DHT to androstenedione, there is no devils advocate to anything I mention. You are merely stating that this could also be a problem. What about 2:1 DHT to andro.? what about other ratios, you are dealing with a very small margin and arent giving us what the meaning is, besides that it could possibly be pro-carsinogenic, what does this mean for acne?

In contrast, I give a direct link to acne, DHT = high oil production (sebum gland unbalanced) = acne.

[InNeed]

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Edited by InNeed, 31 January 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[bobbi364]

I have really high doubts about this article now, and if I were you I would sure for other articles that back up these claims. Saw Palmetto is used to treat E.D. erectile dysfunction, and has no side effects that are a risk to healthy sex drive, lets get that straight.

Secondly, "men feel best when testosterone, DHT, andro., DHEA levels are optimized, thus LOWERING ANDROGEN LEVELS (exactly what you do when you lower DHT spikes). Not only that, saw palmetto is used to help with enlarged prostates, so is nettle root extract.

"without adequate DHT men have no body hair at all"...TOTAL BS. If that were true, many women would be bald, because the level of DHT in women is much much lower, although can still impact their acne due to DHT SPIKES, thus effecting sebum oil production.

http://www.procerin.com/

All the medications on the market that block/inhibit DHT are all safe for consumption, approved by the FDA to have no ill side effects, none what so ever. Do a simple google search "dht causes baldness" and vast array of articles/forums/blogs about it.

The idea is not to worry about the ejaculation/acne connection, because not only does ejaculation cause acne through DHT spikes it also releases many more hormones, which lead to other ill effects, it isn't just acne that can be harmful from high DHT/hormones.

And for the record, I never read that article, as I can see huge flaws in what you quote from it, that is enough for me not to.

Here is a good break down of DHT on fair follicles.

http://www.dhtblocker.net/

Using anything to block DHT will only prevent excess oil production, not hair growth. Also, the main reason DHT is damaging unlike testosterone and other T byproducts is the fact that DHT is converted so quickly, unlike testosterone.

Not to mention a ban on androstenedione.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has announced a crackdown on products containing androstenedione, commonly known as "andro." The products are marketed over the counter as dietary supplements that enhance athletic performance. In the body, androstenedione is converted into testosterone and estrogen.

While ads claim that andro-containing supplements promote increased muscle mass, research has not shown this to be the case. In addition, studies have shown side effects and potential long-term risks; androstenedione poses the same kinds of health risks as anabolic steroids. Given the lack of proven benefits and the risks, the FDA is requesting companies to stop distributing dietary supplements containing androstenedione. The FDA is also encouraging Congress to consider legislation to classify these products as a controlled substance.
Potential Long-Term Risks

For men—shrinkage of testicles, growth of breast tissue, impotence
For women—male pattern baldness, increased facial hair, increased risk for breast cancer and endometrial cancer, blood clots
For youth—acne, early start of puberty, stunted growth

That is a terrible article.

http://en.wikipedia....Androstenedione

Take a read on the biological effects. Very inconclusive even on high doses.

[InNeed]

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Edited by InNeed, 31 January 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[bobbi364]

Do a simple google search, it lays itself all out.  As a scientist I can clearly see your lack of research on the matter.  If the FDA is wrong and bans androstenedione, and even steroid users hate it, then why bolster its claim that people need to raise it?

Look at the long-term effects from androstenedione:

For men—shrinkage of testicles, growth of breast tissue, impotence
For women—male pattern baldness, increased facial hair, increased risk for breast cancer and endometrial cancer, blood clots
For youth—acne, early start of puberty, stunted growth

Yes, I linked a product, however, you must not understand anything about product approval.  They had to get their product approved by the FDA, so it is safe for consumption.  I am not claiming to use any of those products, it's a simple break down, one I thought you might be able to understand, but I can see you have bigger problems on your hands.

You want me to come over to your residence and do a google search for you?

You want good articles from real scientists, fine here ya go:

(over 4000 articles/journals)

http://scholar.googl...auses hair loss

http://scholar.googl...s_ylo=&as_vis=0

Go head, run from a conversation.

Edited by bobbi364, 28 January 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[FSAS]

what are ways that people would suggest to inhibit dht? Besides saw palmetto ..is anything natural effective enough? If dht is the sole creator how come acne cant be cured by a particular pill to control this? - curious, not arguing

[bobbi364]

That is a good question.  There are things besides saw palmetto, those include: nettle root extract, pygeum, and other products on the market that claim to inhibit DHT, mostly made for baldness.  The main reason it isn't touched apon in the field is because many doctors do not realize this, apart from that, large companies would not like this idea, because it would mean them losing millions of dollars.  It is the same way with cancer,there has been a cure for all forms of cancer since the late 1980s, look up Burnzynski Clinic in Houston, TX.  Big pharma tried to shut them down, and even take their cure and their rights to practice, they won every single time and are continuing to cure cancer to this day.  There is a TV show on it as well, sure you can watch that on youtube.

Edited by bobbi364, 29 January 2012 - 07:08 AM.

[bobbi364]

add to that green tea, pumpkin seed oil, and other natural herbs.

[AndersCh1m]

bobbi364, on 28 January 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

As we all know hair loss does not occur overnight. There are a handful of things that can causes acne that has nothing to do with DHT, however those are extremely rare, especially in the western diet. I do know that there is no conclusive proof that raised testosterone levels in the body from exercising will, in fact produce more DHT. It seems like this would be the logical case, but I am sure it has not been proven. Also, when we ask ourselves this question, there are many variables that we have to take into consideration: such as what accelerated positive effects does the increased metabolism from exercise give us? There is proof that exercise promotes the body to raise Serotonin levels. Serotonin, basically, is what keeps our moods on an even keel, so to speak; a mood elevator, if you will.When you exercise you raise testosterone, not always DHT levels. On another note, you say your levels are at an all time high, compared to what? when? There is no baseline for DHT, it is more of a peak, drop, peak, drop, sinusoidal pattern.

My test levels have gone up from a combination of diet and exercise, estrogen levels are way down, and my 5-alpha reductase levels are up. Not that it clearly states super high dht levels, but hormones are typically the root of acne in women, not as much in men. As for the western diet, only a small percentage of people actually know how to eat right. They typically don't eat much outside of carbs, a little protein, and little fat. That combined with poor sources of all of those, can end up with a lot more digestive and metabolic issues than those who do eat right.

As for trying to lower dht levels, that can lead to increased estrogen production, causing worse effects than a little acne. I also see you say that higher androstenedione leads to a number of issues, those issues are typically only caused by exogenous hormone increase, as it signals the testicals to shut down, leading to atrophy. Messing with the levels of hormones in either gender can lead to much worse problems than acne or hair loss, so by trying to demonize it you show you don't understand homeostasis as well as you think. You say you're a scientist, but being a pub med parrot does not equal brains. The FDA approving a product just means that the benefits MAY out weigh the side effects. They approve many drugs that lead to altered brain chemistry, development issues both immediate and 2nd generation, and many other harmful drugs. They're the same people that were preaching trans fats in the 90's, and demonizing saturated fats. The research has shown time and time again that saturated fat is VERY good for people, and trans fats are the cause of multiple health issues.

Look up homeostasis, and the benefits of a consistent diet, with adequate amounts of fat, both unsaturated and saturated, large amounts of protein, and enough carbs to supply the body and mind with energy to complete the daily tasks of the user. Along with good micronutrient intake.

Since you believe the FDA has the best interests of the people, look up some of the BS they've done in the past years. The banning of piracetam, solely for the purpose of allowing it to be sold through prescription only, for one example. They're in the pocket of big pharma, they really don't care about the health of the consumers as long as they aren't taking the blame and can get their pockets lined with cash from big pharma.

[Robert_NL]

So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...