17 replies to this topic

[AutonomousOne1980]

update: January 22 2012, i retract my advice to eat nuts because having retested them, they made me breakout, but i also experianced benefits as increased energy and stamina, feelings of well being, and a raging sex drive, and i do believe this is due to the amino acid prfile with high levels of arginine. it would be better for people with acne to either try an arginine supplement, or eat a good 40-50 gram portion of beef or chicken to get the benefits of a higher arginine intake.



so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain function, and many other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of your entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 22 January 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[chunkylard]

Not all amino acids or complete proteins are 100% bioavailable.
Peanuts in particular are not easy food for humans to digest. I'd be skeptical as to just how much l-arginine you're really able to absorb from peanuts or whether all of the arginine is in l-arginine or d-arginine form. Cashews are fine for most people.

Most nuts are decent sources of l-arginine in which case, you're better off eating less problematic nuts. Not that peanuts are nuts in the first place but yeah.

L-Arginine is great, but it's no reason to eat peanuts, especially when you consider everything else wrong with peanuts.
Pumpkin seeds and macadamias are another good source, but I'm not sure if it's l-arginine or d-arginine.

Edited by chunkylard, 18 January 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[corgisoulpower]

My boyfriend gets cold sores from time to time and when I was looking up how taking lysine/eating foods high in it helps prevent/make them go away (my mom has always told me this) I also read about how eating foods high in arginine (beer and chocolate, his favorite things ever, how appropriate) can make their appearances more frequent. I'm sure it's very important to the body also but just some more food for thought if you're prone to cold sores. I usually get them occasionally as well and haven't gotten a single one since changing my diet, which is kind of cool. Also haven't experienced so much as a sniffle.

[uncle buck]

Nuts are very good at fooling people. They look amazing on paper, but once they've sucked you in (or you've sucked them in) they'll destroy your gut, and keep all their self-proclaimed "nutrients" to themselves.

I'm never dating a Cashew again.

[corgisoulpower]

uncle buck, on 19 January 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Nuts are very good at fooling people. They look amazing on paper, but once they've sucked you in (or you've sucked them in) they'll destroy your gut, and keep all their self-proclaimed "nutrients" to themselves.

I'm never dating a Cashew again.

lmao

[AutonomousOne1980]

chunkylard, on 18 January 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Not all amino acids or complete proteins are 100% bioavailable.
Peanuts in particular are not easy food for humans to digest. I'd be skeptical as to just how much l-arginine you're really able to absorb from peanuts or whether all of the arginine is in l-arginine or d-arginine form. Cashews are fine for most people.

Most nuts are decent sources of l-arginine in which case, you're better off eating less problematic nuts. Not that peanuts are nuts in the first place but yeah.

L-Arginine is great, but it's no reason to eat peanuts, especially when you consider everything else wrong with peanuts.
Pumpkin seeds and macadamias are another good source, but I'm not sure if it's l-arginine or d-arginine.

you are right, nuts are hard to digest if they are not in a ground butter form.
beans are also hard to digest when they arent cooked properly,in fact they are IMPOSSIBLE to digest without cooking them. and wheat and oats are hard to digest if they are not cooked either.
neither are raw vegetables.

i dont think the fact that they are hard to digest makes them a bad choice, prepare them properly and you will have less problems.

but of course, there are other foods that contain arginine, but you will simply just have to double you intake of protein to get as much as you could easily get from nuts.

and no im not here to argue over whether or not we will classify peanuts or cashews as "nuts", you already know what i mean man. we all know what a peanut and a cashew is, no need for ultra scientific clarification here.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 19 January 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[dejaclairevoyant]

I don't like peanuts as I heard they can damage the gut lining. Plus I seem to have a reaction from them. It's very mild, but I don't want to make it worse. I may try adding them into my diet in small amounts after another couple years of healing.

Cashews though, are a staple for me. I made sauces out of them, dressings, vegan sour creams, ferment them for cheeses.... they are awesome and I have zero
reactions from them.

Edited by dejaclairevoyant, 19 January 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[AutonomousOne1980]

dejaclairevoyant, on 19 January 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

I don't like peanuts as I heard they can damage the gut lining. Plus I seem to have a reaction from them. It's very mild, but I don't want to make it worse. I may try adding them into my diet in small amounts after another couple years of healing.

Cashews though, are a staple for me. I made sauces out of them, dressings, vegan sour creams, ferment them for cheeses.... they are awesome and I have zero
reactions from them.

fermented nuts? please tell me more !!!!!

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 19 January 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[dejaclairevoyant]

I do something like this:

http://www.superfood...se-recipes.html

Except I find I don't need any "probiotic powder", it gets cheesy enough on its own. I leave it sitting in the jar overnight and then let the whey drain out in the fridge, and use. I make these out of pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, and cashews, usually. Sometimes only the first two. Cashews make for a far creamier cheese, like cream cheese basically. The other two make for a more riccotta type cheese.

You can also make vegan sour cream out of the cashews, just soak and grind a few into a cream and then add a big spoonful or two of extra virgin coconut oil, a pinch of salt and the juice from one lemon. It's delicious in black bean soup!

[AndersCh1m]

t

AutonomousOne1980, on 18 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain ny other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.function

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of you entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

I love peanuts, but arginine has been proved innefective for quite some time now. Agmatine, however, is very effective at raising N.O. levels. Not saying that arginine is bad for you, but the body can produce it on its own. I do wonder if agmatine supplementation might help, it does what arginine was supposed to do.

Edited by AndersCh1m, 19 January 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Ukulala]

Almonds, what about almonds?

I loooove almonds. X_X

[AutonomousOne1980]

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

t

AutonomousOne1980, on 18 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain ny other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.function

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of you entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

I love peanuts, but arginine has been proved innefective for quite some time now. Agmatine, however, is very effective at raising N.O. levels. Not saying that arginine is bad for you, but the body can produce it on its own. I do wonder if agmatine supplementation might help, it does what arginine was supposed to do.

i will most definitely look into agmatine.

For arginine, as far as i understood, we can make a certain amount of it on our own, but under certain conditions we cannot make enough, like stress, or any kind of infection. in critically ill patients, which are usually fighting a multitude of bacteria all over the body, it has been found at least twice that i have read that arginine levels drop very low, then after illness has resolved(due to antibiotics i presume), arginine levels go back to normal. this is likely due to its role in the immune system in killing bacteria.
at least that is my current understanding. also, you cant always refer to the state of sciences classifications of an amino acid as either essential or non essential, we have not yet figured everything out about the body and new things come up on a daily basis. in other words, i wouldnt use this classification of arginine to assume that we do not need ANY extra arginine nor would we benefit from any extra, to reap greater health benefits. it may just mean that the body has a back up system to supply this important nutrient, when it may be low in the diet. It may actually be evidence of its great importance to the body, rather then a reason to regard the nutrient as trivial and non important. defending agaiint bacteria is like, the number one daily activity your body does to keep you alive, in fact, alot of people in old age will die due to some bacterial infection because there immune systems fail. there first to suffer from any virus or bacterial outbreak is infants and elderly.



i am starting to suspect that arginine supply is a partial link between explaining how stress can suppress the immune system, a chemical that keeps the stress response going is known as arginine vasopressin, due to its use of arginine as a substrate. if under a massive amount of stress, arginine will be used up to keep the stress response going, and when arginine in the diet is low, the stress response may fail and then antibacterial resistance may also, but this is just a theory at the moment, but it makes some sense.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 19 January 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[AndersCh1m]

AutonomousOne1980, on 19 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

t

AutonomousOne1980, on 18 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain ny other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.function

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of you entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

I love peanuts, but arginine has been proved innefective for quite some time now. Agmatine, however, is very effective at raising N.O. levels. Not saying that arginine is bad for you, but the body can produce it on its own. I do wonder if agmatine supplementation might help, it does what arginine was supposed to do.

i will most definitely look into agmatine.

For arginine, as far as i understood, we can make a certain amount of it on our own, but under certain conditions we cannot make enough, like stress, or any kind of infection. in critically ill patients, which are usually fighting a multitude of bacteria all over the body, it has been found at least twice that i have read that arginine levels drop very low, then after illness has resolved(due to antibiotics i presume), arginine levels go back to normal. this is likely due to its role in the immune system in killing bacteria.
at least that is my current understanding. also, you cant always refer to the state of sciences classifications of an amino acid as either essential or non essential, we have not yet figured everything out about the body and new things come up on a daily basis. in other words, i wouldnt use this classification of arginine to assume that we do not need ANY extra arginine nor would we benefit from any extra, to reap greater health benefits. it may just mean that the body has a back up system to supply this important nutrient, when it may be low in the diet. It may actually be evidence of its great importance to the body, rather then a reason to regard the nutrient as trivial and non important. defending agaiint bacteria is like, the number one daily activity your body does to keep you alive, in fact, alot of people in old age will die due to some bacterial infection because there immune systems fail. there first to suffer from any virus or bacterial outbreak is infants and elderly.



i am starting to suspect that arginine supply is a partial link between explaining how stress can suppress the immune system, a chemical that keeps the stress response going is known as arginine vasopressin, due to its use of arginine as a substrate. if under a massive amount of stress, arginine will be used up to keep the stress response going, and when arginine in the diet is low, the stress response may fail and then antibacterial resistance may also, but this is just a theory at the moment, but it makes some sense.

Im not sure about other metabolites of arginine, but I've seen plenty of studies disproving arginine for the benefits it claims. I would think a protein rich diet from multiple sources would give your body everything it needs to synthesize all the others. I would be interested to know what conditions would stop the body from producing its own non essential amino acids though. I know that arginine is in a similar camp as glutamine, worthless for muscle growth but beneficial for post surgery trauma patients. It is also said to help support the immune system when it is under a lot of stress.

I know another technique of raising nitric oxide levels is plant based nitrates. I dont know how effective raised N.O. levels would be on infections or acne as well, but it's well worth looking into.

[AutonomousOne1980]

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

AutonomousOne1980, on 19 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

t

AutonomousOne1980, on 18 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain ny other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.function

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of you entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

I love peanuts, but arginine has been proved innefective for quite some time now. Agmatine, however, is very effective at raising N.O. levels. Not saying that arginine is bad for you, but the body can produce it on its own. I do wonder if agmatine supplementation might help, it does what arginine was supposed to do.

i will most definitely look into agmatine.

For arginine, as far as i understood, we can make a certain amount of it on our own, but under certain conditions we cannot make enough, like stress, or any kind of infection. in critically ill patients, which are usually fighting a multitude of bacteria all over the body, it has been found at least twice that i have read that arginine levels drop very low, then after illness has resolved(due to antibiotics i presume), arginine levels go back to normal. this is likely due to its role in the immune system in killing bacteria.
at least that is my current understanding. also, you cant always refer to the state of sciences classifications of an amino acid as either essential or non essential, we have not yet figured everything out about the body and new things come up on a daily basis. in other words, i wouldnt use this classification of arginine to assume that we do not need ANY extra arginine nor would we benefit from any extra, to reap greater health benefits. it may just mean that the body has a back up system to supply this important nutrient, when it may be low in the diet. It may actually be evidence of its great importance to the body, rather then a reason to regard the nutrient as trivial and non important. defending agaiint bacteria is like, the number one daily activity your body does to keep you alive, in fact, alot of people in old age will die due to some bacterial infection because there immune systems fail. there first to suffer from any virus or bacterial outbreak is infants and elderly.



i am starting to suspect that arginine supply is a partial link between explaining how stress can suppress the immune system, a chemical that keeps the stress response going is known as arginine vasopressin, due to its use of arginine as a substrate. if under a massive amount of stress, arginine will be used up to keep the stress response going, and when arginine in the diet is low, the stress response may fail and then antibacterial resistance may also, but this is just a theory at the moment, but it makes some sense.

Im not sure about other metabolites of arginine, but I've seen plenty of studies disproving arginine for the benefits it claims. I would think a protein rich diet from multiple sources would give your body everything it needs to synthesize all the others. I would be interested to know what conditions would stop the body from producing its own non essential amino acids though. I know that arginine is in a similar camp as glutamine, worthless for muscle growth but beneficial for post surgery trauma patients. It is also said to help support the immune system when it is under a lot of stress.

I know another technique of raising nitric oxide levels is plant based nitrates. I dont know how effective raised N.O. levels would be on infections or acne as well, but it's well worth looking into.

i have no doubt you have seen studies that contradict each other, that happens in science all the time. i wouldnt go as far to say that you read a study that disproved anything,unless you have looked at multiple findings all together successful and non successful which then would ensure such a conclusion, things have to be looked over multiple amounts of time before we can say what the final consensus actually is, because mistakes happen all the time, and sometimes that is just the nature of science, it could be the very methodology of the study itself that fails to find anything.

The fact is, there are multiple studys that have found many benefits, and those, also could be mistakes, so there must be some sort of consensus that has to be met. what is teh most concerning is that there is already a massive amount of evidence that exists in regards to antianxiety effects and growth hormone effects, and if arginine had absolutly no effect on growth hormone then they would not use it for a standard test to see if someones pituitary gland is working, it seems they have at least come to a consensus on that fact alone. see here http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/003377.htm

im not sure that the body ever stops producing arginine on its own from other amino acids, its that it cannot solely keep up with every single demand that the body will encounter over a given amount of time.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 19 January 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[takenimpulse]

Ukulala, on 19 January 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Almonds, what about almonds?

I loooove almonds. X_X

I noticed raw almonds tend to upset my stomach, but that's just me. I'm going to try to reintroduce them again later, or probably try almond butter instead. I've been loving the hell out of pecans lately, and still eat walnuts regularly. Going to try out cashews and macadamian nuts next month. They's be the most expensive, though.

[AndersCh1m]

AutonomousOne1980, on 19 January 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

AutonomousOne1980, on 19 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

t

AutonomousOne1980, on 18 January 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

so some people claim nuts affect their acne, and they stay away. my advice is too keep eating them and heres why.

the amino acid profile of peanuts and cashews is very high in arginine. on average, twice as high as any other protein source i can find.
what is very special about arginine is that it is a big player in the immune system and allows the production an antibacterial substance known as nitric oxide. but this isnt arginines only role, its necessary for the production of growth hormone, has roles in brain ny other processes, it also reduces anxiety and lowers cortisol.function

by limiting the amount of arginine in your body, you reduce the strength of you entire immune system, this makes cashews and nuts, a very healthy food.

I love peanuts, but arginine has been proved innefective for quite some time now. Agmatine, however, is very effective at raising N.O. levels. Not saying that arginine is bad for you, but the body can produce it on its own. I do wonder if agmatine supplementation might help, it does what arginine was supposed to do.

i will most definitely look into agmatine.

For arginine, as far as i understood, we can make a certain amount of it on our own, but under certain conditions we cannot make enough, like stress, or any kind of infection. in critically ill patients, which are usually fighting a multitude of bacteria all over the body, it has been found at least twice that i have read that arginine levels drop very low, then after illness has resolved(due to antibiotics i presume), arginine levels go back to normal. this is likely due to its role in the immune system in killing bacteria.
at least that is my current understanding. also, you cant always refer to the state of sciences classifications of an amino acid as either essential or non essential, we have not yet figured everything out about the body and new things come up on a daily basis. in other words, i wouldnt use this classification of arginine to assume that we do not need ANY extra arginine nor would we benefit from any extra, to reap greater health benefits. it may just mean that the body has a back up system to supply this important nutrient, when it may be low in the diet. It may actually be evidence of its great importance to the body, rather then a reason to regard the nutrient as trivial and non important. defending agaiint bacteria is like, the number one daily activity your body does to keep you alive, in fact, alot of people in old age will die due to some bacterial infection because there immune systems fail. there first to suffer from any virus or bacterial outbreak is infants and elderly.



i am starting to suspect that arginine supply is a partial link between explaining how stress can suppress the immune system, a chemical that keeps the stress response going is known as arginine vasopressin, due to its use of arginine as a substrate. if under a massive amount of stress, arginine will be used up to keep the stress response going, and when arginine in the diet is low, the stress response may fail and then antibacterial resistance may also, but this is just a theory at the moment, but it makes some sense.

Im not sure about other metabolites of arginine, but I've seen plenty of studies disproving arginine for the benefits it claims. I would think a protein rich diet from multiple sources would give your body everything it needs to synthesize all the others. I would be interested to know what conditions would stop the body from producing its own non essential amino acids though. I know that arginine is in a similar camp as glutamine, worthless for muscle growth but beneficial for post surgery trauma patients. It is also said to help support the immune system when it is under a lot of stress.

I know another technique of raising nitric oxide levels is plant based nitrates. I dont know how effective raised N.O. levels would be on infections or acne as well, but it's well worth looking into.

i have no doubt you have seen studies that contradict each other, that happens in science all the time. i wouldnt go as far to say that you read a study that disproved anything,unless you have looked at multiple findings all together successful and non successful which then would ensure such a conclusion, things have to be looked over multiple amounts of time before we can say what the final consensus actually is, because mistakes happen all the time, and sometimes that is just the nature of science, it could be the very methodology of the study itself that fails to find anything.

The fact is, there are multiple studys that have found many benefits, and those, also could be mistakes, so there must be some sort of consensus that has to be met. what is teh most concerning is that there is already a massive amount of evidence that exists in regards to antianxiety effects and growth hormone effects, and if arginine had absolutly no effect on growth hormone then they would not use it for a standard test to see if someones pituitary gland is working, it seems they have at least come to a consensus on that fact alone. see here http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/003377.htm

im not sure that the body ever stops producing arginine on its own from other amino acids, its that it cannot solely keep up with every single demand that the body will encounter over a given amount of time.

It's hard to tell with a lot of the studies out there, but the whole sports supplement scene has almost completely ditched arginine due to lack of results. It's even been found that after a certain (very small) dose, N.O. levels begin to drop. I know that's for the N.O. and sports enhancement side of things, I'm not sure about the rest of the supposed benefits though. Sometime next month I'll be buying a decent amount of bulk agmatine to try out, mainly for the bodybuilding aspect, but I'll also take note of any other differences it makes skin and general health wise. I like to give the human body the credit its due, I believe that outside of illness and defects, the body should be fine making it's own. Just as after a certain amount of vitamin intake the body secretes it (at least with water soluble vitamins). I'll be doing my own research into arginine, but I don't hold any hope for it boosting my skin health.

As for arginine studies, the studies are all conclusive in my experience. It doesn't boost agmatine levels, which is the desired metabolite of arginine that contains all the sports/health benefits arginine was supposed to bring. I'm not trying to argue, just mainly getting my thoughts out there and maybe benefit the discussion and make some progress.

[alternativista]

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I would be interested to know what conditions would stop the body from producing its own non essential amino acids though. I know that arginine is in a similar camp as glutamine, worthless for muscle growth but beneficial for post surgery trauma patients. It is also said to help support the immune system when it is under a lot of stress.

I've never looked into much to do with amino acids as it's pretty rare to be deficient in this country. But, molybdenum is something you only need a trace of but without it, the body can't break down the proteins you consume so it can use the amino acids.

[AndersCh1m]

alternativista, on 19 January 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

AndersCh1m, on 19 January 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I would be interested to know what conditions would stop the body from producing its own non essential amino acids though. I know that arginine is in a similar camp as glutamine, worthless for muscle growth but beneficial for post surgery trauma patients. It is also said to help support the immune system when it is under a lot of stress.

I've never looked into much to do with amino acids as it's pretty rare to be deficient in this country. But, molybdenum is something you only need a trace of but without it, the body can't break down the proteins you consume so it can use the amino acids.

I know it's hard to say people are deficient of amino acids, but I'm thinking a large part of the population get nowhere near the amount of protein or fat for their bodies to run at full efficiency. I guess I'll add that to my list of things to look into, but I think if people that have acne suffered from lack of nonessential amino acid synthesis, there would be more obvious signs than just acne.
I can't think of any reason someone wouldn't be able to produce non essential amino acids without having the inability to break down protein and lack of amino's from their diet. Seems like a lot of conditions need to be met before that would happen, unless the person is completely malnourished.

I just read into that study Autononimous posted and here's what I take from it:

Arginine blood levels are tested, but that was the main problem with the studies run on arginine. Arginine supplementation does not increase blood arginine levels. Meaning, the body makes the amount it needs and leaves it. I did run into other data saying the pathway it is synthesized by doesn't make enough, so the rest is consumed through diet. Thing is, most foods contain more than enough to get the rest in. It's in pretty much any complete protein profile, so there shouldn't be a problem that would require more.
Like I said before, I believe it is in the same camp as glutamine. Both are nonessential, Glutamine makes up somewhere around 60% of skeletal muscle amino acids. That doesn't mean that supplementing is going to cause muscle growth though, as the body isn't going to use any more than it needs.

Sorry if it seems random or unorganized, I'm pretty brain fried at the moment.