16 replies to this topic

[fennecs]

Hello. This is my first thread on this forum, though I've occasionally lurked. If this is the wrong subforum for this topic, my bad, though I do consider it a more holistic approach. And let it be known that I'm not a nutritionist, though I do plan on going to school for it.

First I wanted to say something a little off topic to the original point of this post, but something Im going to dabble with nonetheless. What sense does washing your face serve?

When you wash your face, you want to get the dirt and everything out of your pores, but at the same time most use hot water. This strips off the oils on our faces. Some do this purposely, thinking these oils are going to clog pores, and some even blame their acne on having a very oily face, and will use products to try and keep down oil production.

I notice that quite a few people with acne supplement with vitamin E, one of the most notoriously known vitamins for healthy skin. So then why, I ask, would one harshly pommel their faces with hot water and spot treatments that serve only to dry out your skin? Im not sure how well known this is, on this board, but a lot of that vitamin E you take for healthy skin is actually INSIDE the skin oil, TRYING to repair your skin, but washing and spot treatments are inhibiting your body from doing its job with the tools you gave it. I challenge you to go two days without washing your face at all, preferably a weekend or a day you don't have to work, so that you don't have to be embarrassed about blinding people with your shinyness (assuming you have very oil skin.)

Now on to the main point of this topic. And I assume this is where a lot of you will close out of the tab and say "Ugh, again? Really?"
Masturbating!

Yup. Sorry if I bombarded you there. Keep in mind that this is where the topic gets really specific to a certain type of person, and women probably wont be as effected as men. Some of you might say "I masturbate, but I dont get acne! hurrdurr" Then why are you on this site? Sure, people can masturbate and not get acne. Just like some people can eat all kinds of junk food and not get it. And that's the point, not everyone's the same.

How many of you chronically masturbate? Im going to assume 60% of the naysayers are lying. A lot of polls show that men in particular masturbate at least 7 times a week (once a day) or 5 times a week. Keep in mind that a lot people on those polls are either lying, saying they dont do it at all, or downplaying it.

And now for my argument, all them there sciencey reasons, for my believing this can have a direct effect on acne for some people.

• Masturbation is one of the biggest hormonal imbalances you can inflict upon yourself.
  
• Masturbation, especially chronic, lowers your sensitivity to dopamine
  
• Masturbation causes a significant decrease in testosterone. This is a bad thing.

Alrighty then, my first point:
Masturbation is one of the biggest hormonal imbalances you can inflict upon yourself
This needs very little explanation. You masturbate, you're going to screw up your hormones. Testosterone is going to have random declines and spikes, blah, blah, blah. One of the main explanations for acne is a natural hormonal imbalance that occurs during puberty. For a lot of women, (with some exceptions) this is fixed by simply going on the pill. Lucky them :\

Masturbation, especially chronic, lowers your sensitivity to dopamine.
Okay, here we go. What is dopamine? Dopamine is basically the thing that lets you feel good. It's whats excreted when you're out having fun with your friends, laughing, and even when your tongue touches with another person's. People with chronic depression actually show lower levels of dopamine than those who tend to always be happy. Depression causes stress, stress has been linked to acne.

How does masturbating tie in with dopamine? Orgasm brings us the biggest blast of dopamine to our brains possible, and assaulting our brains with it on a daily basis is not healthy. It gets to the point where social interactions becoming boring, and some would rather stay home than go out with friends. It can even inhibit your ability to fall in love with someone long-term.

And lastly:
Masturbation causes a significant decrease in testosterone

"But OP! Less testosterone is a good thing! Testosterone causes acne!"
Correction, extremely high levels of testosterone (steroidal) causes acne. A properly balanced amount of testosterone and you'll have no problems. Also, it could be a potentially good thing, if it weren't for the fact that the decrease in testosterone is caused by its conversion into DHT, a hormone that is known to cause acne AND hair loss.

You remember that myth that thinning hair and hair loss can be caused by masturbating? Well all myths start somewhere. The masturbation-acne and masturbation-hairloss myth are no different than Bigfoot. Someone saw a gorilla-like man walking through a forest, couldn't fully explain it, so he a made up a story about it. Just like someone masturbated like a frenzied bear, noticed acne and hair thinning, but didn't have the brain capacity to scientifically explain the why it happened. People asked him "How so?" and all he could do is shrug his shoulders, and so it got displaced as a myth.

For more information on this last point, go here: http://www.acne.org/...<br /> <br /> As for me, I've quit masturbating cold turkey for a week and noticed a decrease in redness, and an extremely vast difference in my acne. It's simply going away now and anything I new I get tends to be smaller and goes away within two days, generally. I used to do it about once a day. Sometimes more than once, but sometimes not at all. I also feel livelier and more full of energy. If there is anyone out there who has this habit (who might not even realize it's more addictive than things like smoking and drinking) I implore you to check out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/nofap
and
http://yourbrainonporn.com/

And to close my point: Masturbating is just like sugar. Sugar has a lot of factors in it that can cause acne, from a decreased immune system to an increase in inflammation. And just like some can eat sugar without suffering acne consequences, some people can masturbate without getting acne at all. If you're avoiding sugar, you may as well avoid touching yourself too, as both have several ways they can cause acne.

[spriorda]

I enjoyed reading your post yet the evidence is partly inaccurate. Masturbation can be an influence of acne. But just cutting it out will not simply make your acne go away. My friend had really bad acne for a while and cut out masturbation for I think 2 months and he said his acne didn't change that much. Look at adults for instance, they have sex with their partners on a regular basis yet their skin is clear. Acne is caused by toxins in the bloodstream. Get rid of the toxins through a healthy digestive tract and you get rid of your acne. Hope this helped.

[fennecs]

Thanks for the reply, nice to know you were interested

But I think you skipped over one of the main points I was trying to make, which is that while it may not have effected your friend, it could effect others. I never had acne until I started masturbating, really. And it never went away until I began to stop.

I agree with you on the digestive track for sure, though. Everyone should work to be healthy internally, regardless of whether or not they have acne.

[bobbi364]

fennecs, you are 100% correct.

Here is a quip from a previous post I made.

I have a couple things to add to this. Not only does this work, this is the main cause of almost all acne (other things could be allergies, and deficiencies - rare in the western diet).

I am here to explain to you all why and how ejaculation/orgasm causes acne. It is not because of the loss of vitamins, it isn't because you sweat and the sweat causes acne, it is on a hormonal level.

When one has an orgasm DHT Testosterone spikes, and the longer the sex/masturbation the more testosterone is expelled into the blood stream. DHT testosterone regulates the sebum oil gland and produces an imbalance in sebum oil production, which causes all sorts of pimples based on the amount of testosterone produced. The most DHT = cystic, the less DHT = whiteheads/blackheads and all small forms of acne. The reason this works with both males and females is because both males and females have DHT testosterone, and both release testosterone into the blood stream as one ejaculates.

The level of testosterone released is different in each individual, this is why some have terrible acne symptoms from ejaculation, and others do not.

A practical reason approach to this is steroid use and acne. Almost every single person who juices gets acne, it is based on the increase in testosterone.

You are all on the correct path to success, however having a set goal for everyone is hit or miss. Like stated above, one could ejaculate once a week and never get acne, and a different individual could get acne.

I encourage each and every one of you to google search: testosterone and acne, steriods and acne. Read about the effects and causes of DHT testosterone for yourselves.

I personally never masturbate, and have sex around once a week. I use to have bad acne (severe) in my teens, however once I quit masturbating my face cleared up and has remained clear.

Good luck to everyone.

spriorda, DHT is the main source of all acne, where: ejaculation, insulin and diet affect its creation/absorption into the blood stream. Toxins are a secondary cause of acne and is even a more rare cause, possible, however highly unlikely.

[fennecs]

Thanks Bobbi. I saw another thread on here asking why the majority of acne sufferers are skinny. The decreased levels of functional testosterone for muscle growth (due to chronic masturbation) pretty much explains that, but I didn't really want to post that for fear of being attacked, haha.

Interestingly enough, there are studies that show a huge spike of testosterone (up to 140%ish) after a person goes 7 days without doing it. It eventually evens out, though.

As for sex, I dont know what to tell you guys. I read somewhere that the chemical reactions are different when you do it with a partner rather than doing it by yourself, but Im not sure how that could make any sense.

[AutonomousOne1980]

Ok, masturbation.

perhaps it is true you have found some evidence that masturbation lowers dopamine, but by what measurable amount? and is it of any significance? in my opinion it will not be of much significance.

you claim all myths start somewhere, and that mastubation may actually make someone blind and bald. well, correlation does not mean causation, these widely held beliefs may be very false.


here is my take on it, people chronically masturbate BECAUSE they are stressed, and it is a stress reliever. there is a problem that precedes the chronicity of the masturbating, similarly to why people get addicted to drugs, they are managing their emotions via a form of escapism because there seems to be no clear solution at the moment. I believe people are stressed mainly because they do not eat or excercise correctly to have the vitality, creativity and mental focus to solve their problems. OR, their problems are too hard to solve and require too much of them. Or, they just liek sex plain and simple, join the rest of the world i guess, because everybody likes sex.

If masturbating absolutely caused acne, hairloss, and blindness, then all porn stars would have serious issues here, but the evidence is too damn solid against this argument, i believed the case may be 99% closed here. excessive ejaculation will not cause acne hairloss or blindness, unless you were already deficient in the nutrients that were lost, anyways, therefore shift your focus back onto to your diet.

also, i started masturbating when i was 11 years old, i didnt really start to get bad acne until i was 17.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980, 18 January 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[bobbi364]

fennecs,

You are correct about those levels peaking several days without it, however they do eventually level out.  Think of it like a sine wave, where each individual has a different base line level for normal testosterone.Sex involved different hormones and thus causes different hormone connections, so yes, sex and masturbation are different on a hormonal level.  You should google acne and steroids, they have set studies of DHT and testosterone levels peaking after injection and last for up to 45 days until they went back to normalized levels.

auto,

you are very wrong, and thanks for posting evidence both for or against acne and hairloss.  believe it or not acne and hair loss are connected and are all sourced from DHT.  Please go read this in articles for youself...here is a small snippet from just one of many...This metabolism of androgen gets involved with an enzyme, the 5 alpha reductase which tends to combine with the male hormone, testosterone to give DHT (Dihydrotestosterone). This DHT is the natural metabolite of the human body that is the main reason for hair loss.

DHT is the sole cause of acne and hair loss and may very well be blindness as well.  attack what you don't know, I see flaws in your logic, might want to check that out.

Not only does ejaculation release DHT in the blood steam, so does high levels of insulin, and high levels of red meat fats.  This is all known fact.  There are other triggers that exist for acne, however they are extremely rare (those include allergies, deficiencies). And if one has food allergies, they can rest assured that acne will not be their only symptom.

fennecs,

there are things you can take to block DHT production and reception. Saw palmetto blocks the reception of DHT, while nettle root extract blocks 5 alpha II reductase (the creation of DHT). good luck buddy

Edited by bobbi364, 18 January 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[InNeed]

-

Edited by InNeed, 31 January 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[FSAS]

so really people would be clear if they blocked DHT? im confused as I dont masturbate often at all and I still have acne. what could that mean for people like me? are we just extra sensitive ? My acne started when I was 19 (oct last year) it came out of the blue so so fast even whilst on the pill. I then switched pills to the one known to clear acne in females, and I still have acne if not worse that before. The only thing that cleared me was spiro which i know has to do with androgens but im curious why people get affected like this? at the moment im working to heal my gut if theres a problems there as Im continuously told acne is gut related. theres no explanation as to why my acne occurred and so fast. im curious why androgens can all of a sudden start having an affect on people, like myself, i never got acne when i hit puberty or during puberty, my twin did at 16 but didnt last long and she's as clear as ever. does anyone have insight on why we should focus on DHT and why that even becomes the problem, like what we might have done to cause androgens being so affective in the form of acne?

[Omnivium]

fennecs, on 18 January 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Thanks Bobbi. I saw another thread on here asking why the majority of acne sufferers are skinny. The decreased levels of functional testosterone for muscle growth (due to chronic masturbation) pretty much explains that, but I didn't really want to post that for fear of being attacked, haha.

What about gaining fat? I'm really skinny and I have trouble gaining fat and muscle, but I don't masturbate very often. What else reduces testosterone and increases DHT? And can you post links instead of telling us to google it? Most of what I find on google is useless.

[fennecs]

Omnivium, on 19 January 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

fennecs, on 18 January 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Thanks Bobbi. I saw another thread on here asking why the majority of acne sufferers are skinny. The decreased levels of functional testosterone for muscle growth (due to chronic masturbation) pretty much explains that, but I didn't really want to post that for fear of being attacked, haha.

What about gaining fat? I'm really skinny and I have trouble gaining fat and muscle, but I don't masturbate very often. What else reduces testosterone and increases DHT? And can you post links instead of telling us to google it? Most of what I find on google is useless.

I'm not too knowledgeable on other things that lower testosterone. The answer you probably don't want to hear is that it's your genetic's fault, but that's probably it, or you're not eating enough. For gaining muscle, I just know that heavy weights and less reps is better. Basically as heavy as you can get, but not so heavy that you can't do 6-8 reps.

Hardgainers should also focus on calories more than they should protein. They need upwards of 4000~5000 calories a day. Having an incredibly high metabolism might be a cause of not being able to gain muscle, but Im not too sure on that one.
You may find this thread helpful: http://forum.bodybui...22686181&page=1

I can't answer FSAS question, since I don't believe DHT is the cause of all acne. I believe an unhealthy internal system can cause it too, so you'll have to wait for bobbi to answer that one.

[bobbi364]

FSAS, there are other factors that raise DHT, such as high insulin and fats from red meats, to name a few, those are the ones I know off the top of my head. Research and find out more. If one can block/inhibit DHT from reception or forming it will clear up many problems, however you could be experiencing acne from other secondary things, such as allergies or deficiencies.

There are only a couple of drugs that can lower testosterone, and those are very bad, as they can lead you to becoming sterile. You can however block the reception of DHT with Saw Palmetto, and block the enzyme used in the creation of DHT with Nettle Root Extract.

[dandantheman]

Thank you fennecs and bobbi for your rational discussion on this subject.

People get very uncomfortable with this topic, as evidenced by the responses here and elsewhere. For fairly obvious reasons, ejaculation is seen as a universal stress-relieving activity, but with that it carries the notion that it couldn't possibly be strongly correlated with acne because, well, DUH, it reduces stress. No facts, no supporting evidence, no reason, just "it's good and reduces stress, and 'it's natural' therefore it couldn't cause acne." The positive stress-relieving aspect of ejaculation is probably severely outweighed by the negative sebaceous effects of DHT flooding the blood stream. It's like going 5 steps forward, and then 25 steps backward. For some reason, this is hard to grasp for some individuals here.

As to the effects, I concur 100%. Not only does acne completely subside after 6-9 days of abstinence for me (depending on my ejaculation frequency prior to that - cysts take longer to heal, and cysts are usually brought on by 2 ejaculations per day for me, or daily ejaculation for many days on end, or 2+ days per week for a few weeks), but the mental benefits are truly interesting - again, beyond the comprehension of most of the nitwits on this forum and elsewhere. After 6-9 days or so, I have so much mental sharpness and enhanced sex drive that I am on the verge of ripping my gf's clothes off and banging her silly. This, to me, is the optimistic side of this problem. Yes the acne sucks, but it also gives us a chance to swing the pendulum in the other direction periodically, giving us a rhythym for our daily life if we choose to accept it. I used to be really upset by this problem, and to be honest I still wish I could experience as much sex as I wanted without repercussion, but I also enjoy the positive side of having self-imposed limitations and a need for discipline. Acne and excessive ejaculation work together to bring down my physical appearance (due to acne), confidence, energy, mental acuity and drive, libido, etc. So the logical conclusion is to take all this as a sign to back off slightly and adopt a new rhythym to life that keeps me in a good balance.

I can't wait until this topic is better understood by the scientific and dermatological communities. For now, it's simply a collection of anecdotes and suspicions and a smattering of loosely drawn scientific conclusions, and we'll all take what we can get.

On a side note, I've noticed allergies and sinus or rhinal infections can amplify the effects. I tend to get rhinitis, and whenever my immune system is caught up fighting that off, ejaculations take a larger toll on my skin. Allergies alone can cause very small, tiny, and numerous, hardly noticeable, manageable pimples for me, but it usually never ever ever causes the types of acne that ejaculation causes me to have. Ejaculation is the only thing that makes me cross over into cyst territory, or inflamed whiteheads, etc.

For what it's worth, I am also a fairly skinny person of european descent, relatively oily skin, and difficulty gaining weight. So my body may be leaning toward lipid expulsion through the skin instead of lipid storage, as some have theorized.

[bobbi364]

dan, very well said, thanks for sharing your experience. I as well notice heightened brain functionality, it feels like I am a superhero compared to when I use to masturbate daily.

[Joner]

i like this topic, got some good minds here that are really on to something...I'm testing this out right now to see if masturbation could be a major cause for me. I've had moderately severe acne since i was 15. Now I am 17 and I have been masturbating since before I can remember and it's been a daily ritual ever since. Now that I'm taking on this challenge, I'll update on my results periodically. dandantheman, i want to applaud you. There are so many relentlessly blinded idiots here that it's very reassuring to here your logic. Same goes for fennecs...

bobbi364, are you essentially saying that by stopping masturbation, it will take 45 days to see true results?

[Chocobot]

I was on vacation for a month, sexual activity was low (and for a few weeks nill), and my muscle mass increased. It is not the first time I notice that lower sexual activity leads to muscle mass gains.

Didn't stop my acne though.

Edited by Chocobot, 20 March 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[DaftFrost]

Basically... masturbation , and sugars are directly connected to Acne.

Here is why, I am not going to use fancy words just plain simple so people would understand.


So.... There's puberty, during puberty our body starts to change and our body itself increases the insulin sensitivity. That basically makes our body make alot more insulin than we normally used to before puberty. During that time, eating sugary foods would mean a lot of insulin into the blood because we have higher sensitivity to it. That then leads to acne, and acne is usually hormonal 90 % of the time.

Masturbation is similar, it releases lots of hormones into our blood, causing imbalance and overflow. Its basically not natural to be ejaculating too often, infact look at monkeys they were our ancestors, do they ejaculate every week? Not even close, we are suppose to be reproducing several times in our lifetime not everyday.

So overall Masturbation is bad bad! and it causes lots of emotional problems because when you are being bombarded by the "Dopamine" your brain builds a tolerance against it so it becomes more resistant, therefore you will stop enjoying good happy stuff in your life. Its just like drug.



So yea..... Don't masturbate! Don't eat sugar, Eat Healthy and just have a healthy lifestyle that your body can love.