25 replies to this topic

[radikal]

Guys, those who followed my posts in the past may have noticed I'm rather methodical and don't get excited easily.

BUT RIGHT NOW I FEEL LIKE JUMPING AROUND WITH JOY.

And the answer is...wait...it's been known for years; B5 plus Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCAR). Megadosing B5 at 7-10g/day and ALCAR at 1.5-2g/day. This while on a Nazi diet straight out of the juicer. I drink the juice (mostly veggies) and later on I eat the fibre (I throw it in the blender and make smoothies). Little animal protein beside a couple of eggs every day. Very little grains, NO refined sugar, NO dairy, nothing that would spike insulin. Little saturated and vegetal fat. The majority of food intake is raw (even if mechanically processed in juicer/blender).
I've been doing this for 45 days now. The comedy of this diet is that I'VE GAINED A BIT OF MUCH NEEDED WEIGHT.

And TODAY, like one hour ago (8pm), I went like, I don't feel oily...and its evening, not noon...and my lips are dry, much like they used to be on Accutane; I have very little oil to blot, this is really happening!

I've had (very) oily skin for 20 years now, and the only reprieves I got were while on Accutane (admittedly for some years).
The fact that I can control oil output with diet and vitamins, and feel healthier while doing it....is like...I'm at a loss of words. I feel like a pagan god, fuck you acne, fuck you oily skin, I am free now.

Most of you will lack the discipline to stay on this diet. It is a lifestyle choice.
I will scale back the B5 in a few weeks, and see how little I can get away with. The fact that it took 45 fucking days for my body to respond to this hardcore diet and B5+ALCAR megadose is telling of how fucked up my fat metabolism was/is. I am positive the megadose wouldn't have made the difference by itself.

I have nothing further to add and will not be maintaining this thread. All the answers are in the Nutrition forums.

Edited by radikal, 14 October 2011 - 12:03 PM.

[Trevor244]

To be honest this sounds depressing and unhealthy a little bit of dairy is needed in a stable diet aswell as a little bit of sugar also you've been fighting this for over 20 years so I guess you could be in your thirties which means your body may adjusting itself to get rid of your oily skin. Because acne does go away for some as they get older

[radikal]

Trevor244, on 19 October 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

To be honest this sounds depressing and unhealthy a little bit of dairy is needed in a stable diet aswell as a little bit of sugar also you've been fighting this for over 20 years so I guess you could be in your thirties which means your body may adjusting itself to get rid of your oily skin. Because acne does go away for some as they get older

I said I wouldn't add to the topic...anyways
No my body isn't naturally adjusting to less sebum...I am oily as I write, but it's midnight and it's been 14 hours since I washed my face and applied make-up, so it's acceptable....I didn't feel oily at 7pm.
Refined sugar and dairy are not required for the body to function, why would you think that?
I get how it may seem depressing, that's why I said it's a lifestyle choice you have to buy into and not think twice about it.

[Trevor244]

A little bit of diary helps the body to produce more enzymes in the saliva which aids in help teeth from acid erosion. A little bit of sugar is good for blood pressure and to give you energy. Bear In mind if you eat a lot of fruit then you'll be alright but need to have a little bit of diary in your diet because too much fruit can cause teeth acid erosion its on the internet if you want more info

[radikal]

Trevor, whatever works for you man.

As for me, I sleep in a cave. I go outside to lay in the sun and do some hunting and gathering. I haven't discovered fire yet. I don't eat grass (grains). Last time I had milk was while sucking at my mother's breast.

Maybe you get my point, maybe you don't. This is the mindset to make this work. That, and B5/ALCAR.

[Trevor244]

Lol haha that made me laugh, if you wanna create fire rub to dry sticks together this will create friction and then you'll get fire

[Tunnelvisionary]

So, your diet actually made you GAIN weight?

That's awesome, and I'm happy for you. I am in dire need of weight gain...and watching what I eat has made me thinner. Could I get some more specifics of how exactly you accomplished this? Or a link to a thread. Would definitely be appreciated.

[radikal]

Tunnelvisionary, on 21 October 2011 - 09:54 PM, said:

So, your diet actually made you GAIN weight?

Don't get too excited; we're talking a gain of 2-3 kg over a couple of months; it has stabilized now. I'm thinking it has to do with the much improved fat metabolism from B5/ALCAR, and because I ate a lot more fiber than I used to. You can actually ingest 12 bell peppers in a day if you run them through the juicer and blender, who knew?

Edited by radikal, 23 October 2011 - 12:40 PM.

[Tunnelvisionary]

Sweet, thanks for the reply! I'll take it into account as I start modifying my diet.

[Wotever]

Radikal,

Congratulations on finding something that makes a difference. Perhaps, in the name of scientific research (...and I am sure the likes of Bryan would be with me on this one...) you could do some experimentation to try to isolate which of the three treatment methods you have adopted makes the difference - or, if all three, the relative significance of each one?

For one thing you might be able to add something valuable to the B5 debate, which seems to still be wide open, from what I have read...

[radikal]

Umm. No. I'm not going to risk having again the "initial" B5 breakout.
I have to say that I don't have full containment, it's midnight here and I just washed my face after 14 hours. Yes I was oily, but it wasn't gross. It's hard to quantify, let's say somewhat less that half of the "normal" for this late hour. I now go through the day just fine up to 6pm, when I blot. I used to blot at 1-2pm. It's a definite improvement, but not to the point where it's no longer an issue at all.

Back to the "science". I've reasoned my way to this path.
Hypothesis: (this is the easy part) I've inherited a genetic disorder which predisposes me to acne, triggering a chain of events which leads to overproduction of sebum and consequently acne. This I've accepted for years, it's easy to track the acne "lineage" in my family up to a grand-grand-mother. I didn't know what it was...until I learnt about inherited fat metabolism disorders (there are multiple types).

In few words, persons affected by these disorders have a disfunction at the cellular level which leads to inefficient fat acid metabolism in mithocondria. They would comparatively need a lot more panthotenic acid (B5) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR) to form enough coenzyme-A to break down the fats from the (standard) diet. Those unmetabolized fats are carried through the lymphatic system and secreted through the sebaceous glands. There are positive feedback loops (IGF-1, insulin, cholesterol->DHT) which make a bad situation worse.

What to do?
- Drastically reduce fat from the diet, with vegetable fats being the worst offender. Reduce (but not eliminate) animal protein.
- Increase load of low-glycemic complex carbohydrates, eliminate high-glycemic simple carbs to prevent insulin spikes. Eat as much raw food as reasonable. Do not fry anything. Meat is either lightly grilled or boiled (stick to free range poultry and fish). Basically a strict Paleo diet with modern tools like a juicer and a blender.
- Ingest copious amounts of B5 and ALCAR so that the body has enough coenzyme-A to fully metabolize the limited fat from this diet.
I also take Ca, Mg, Zn, niacin, saw plametto, but none of these are new. B5 and ALCAR are.

All that I do goes hand in hand and addresses the root cause. Like, don't give oxygen to the fire. The hot coals will be there, but no flame.

[bryan]

radikal, on 04 November 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

What to do?
- Increase load of low-glycemic complex carbohydrates, eliminate high-glycemic simple carbs to prevent insulin spikes.

Why do people constantly talk about the "complexity" of carbohydrates, as if that has anything to do with its glycemic index?? A baked russet potato (obviously a very highly "complex" carbohydrate) has a higher glycemic index than sucrose, which is common table sugar.

[Wotever]

I am sufficiently convinced as to fully intend to try B5, and perhaps ALCAR. It would of course be quite handy if some research institution would do a proper double-blind placebo-controlled trial to either confirm or refute Dr. Leung's original findings - and quantify the results ... but that is stating the obvious. Also a bit concerned by the "the effect of B5 wears off after a while because the body compensates for it" reports.

[Wotever]

Now here's a question - purely out of interest. If the body cannot adequately metabolize fat and wants to secrete it through the sebaceous glands, but the sebaceous glands have been put out of action (e.g. by Accutane or laser)... what happens to it then?

[radikal]

@Wotever: I dunno...it goes to the Fat Heaven? I've been on Accutane for years and had laser done on my face multiple times, and my sebaceous glands are still going strong. Just take right action.

@bryan: I seriously wanted to tell you to fuck off. Instead I'll quote some MD just to make you feel better. Funny how being right doesn't necessarily make one contribute value eh...I eat my potatoes boiled in crust, and it's not a staple food in my kitchen.

"Starches are long complex chains of simple sugars. This is why they are often called “complex carbohydrates”. It was once thought that complex carbohydrates do not raise blood sugar as quickly or as much as sugars, but now we know that some starches are actually more glycemic than some sugars. In this sense, they are not “complex” for very long at all. People who are sensitive to sugar should avoid most starchy foods as well, since most starchy foods are rapidly broken down into sugar.
Which foods have a lot of starch?

Grains (wheat, rice, barley, oats), potatoes, corn, and beans are all very starchy foods. Grains are made into bread, cereal and pasta, as well as crackers, biscuits, cookies, cakes, pie crust, and anything else made with flour.
What determines whether starches are digested rapidly or slowly?

There are several factors at work:

What is done to the starch before we eat it. Particularly when it comes to grains (and especially wheat), we have a tendency to grind it, puff it, flake it, roll it, and generally beat it into submission so we can form it into any number of processed foods. This has the effect of doing some of the work of our digestive systems before the food even goes into our mouths. It’s really no wonder that these foods are turned into sugar so efficiently within minutes of being in our bodies. The starches that are most rapidly digested are those made from flour (including whole grain flour) and most breakfast cereals.

On the other hand, if grains or legumes remain whole, such as beans, brown rice or whole barley, the starch is broken down into sugars much more slowly, and some never is turned into sugar at all, but reaches the large intestine intact – this is called resistant starch.

Starch Structure. Different kinds of starch have different arrangements of molecules, and some are easier for our digestive enzymes to get at than others. One kind of starch, called amylose, is broken down quite slowly. The higher the amount of amylose in a starch, the more slowly it is digested. Different types of rice have differing percentages of amylose. Long grain rices, which tend to stay more separate, are higher in amylose. Shorter grain rices, which tend to produce creamier and stickier rice are low in amylose and are more glycemic. New potatoes (sometimes described as “waxy”) have a starch that is closer to amylose in structure than more mature potatoes, and they are somewhat less glycemic."

Edited by radikal, 05 November 2011 - 06:52 AM.

[bryan]

radikal, on 05 November 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

@bryan: I seriously wanted to tell you to fuck off. Instead I'll quote some MD just to make you feel better.
[snip really interesting and informative article on starches]

Thanks, but I really don't NEED to feel better. I've only been saying this same thing (about the "complexity" of carbohydrates having little to do with their glycemic index) for years and years. I hope that YOU are the one who feels better, and can finally stop repeating this silliness about "complexity"!

[borie88]

Are there any studies on the mechanism in which ingested fat that is not metabolized is secreted out of the sebaceous glands?

[radikal]

@borie: there is extensive commentary on this topic in the Wai diet book. I don't know if that meets your standards.
@bryan: I jumped the gun on you, I know. You're so good at pointing out relatively minor fallacies while ignoring the larger argument....someone less informed may not see you're just nitpicking, and think instead you're dumping on the whole topic.

[borie88]

Not really but I would consider trying acetyl to see if it works. I eat a lot of meat, so I am not sure if it would help since beef provides a pretty good source.

[borie88]

i started taking 1g of acetyl a day in the morning, but it really screws up my sleep, so I think im gonna stop