5 replies to this topic

[WTF MAN!?]

Hi, I'm new to the board. I have been suffering with acne for 11 years off and on and I am sick and tired of it as I am sure all of you are. Nothing worse than waking up in the morning with hopes of slightly clearer skin that morning and discovering a new outbreak in the mirror. WTF MAN?! How do you go about your day optimistically from that point on? But I digress.

What I have come to realize over the years of trying to find a cure for acne is 1) No one really knows why acne happens; 2) No one really knows of a universal cure (and I would argue there is no such thing); 3) Different things work for different people. All these things have created this web of confusion that I am sure many of you are entangled in and I am not satisfied, not satisfied at all. I am frustrated and angry, as I am sure all of you are. We live in a world that is governed by science! There must be some sort of order -- things have to make sense, otherwise our existence would not be possible!

Is it possible that factors such as your diet, heritage, and environment are all linked and the reason why different things work for different people is the result of the numerous and (seemingly) unlimited number of permutations that arise from these factors and those factors' sub-factors?

What got me thinking about this is that I read somewhere that the indigenous peoples of Papua New Guinea, parts of Africa, and South America do not suffer from acne and at the very worst only a very small percentage of them do. Is it possible the reason for this is that they have lived on the same land, in the same environment, eating the same thing for at least 10,000 years? They have been dealing with the same germs, building immunity to the same bacteria since the dawn of modern man (and way before). Could this be why they do not have the same prevalence of acne in their population?

When the Spaniards came over to the New World they, unknowingly, brought with them smallpox which decimated the indigenous peoples and have killed off as many as 95% of the population in the New World. Why? Because the Aztec and the Inca did not have the same farm animals that the Europeans had. Their children did not get to play around in these farm animals' filth for several dozen centuries and they did not get an opportunity to develop any sort of immunity to smallpox -- zero. Hence the widespread devastation.

Diet seems to be a popular explanation for acne, but why isn't there one diet that has been proven to cure acne? If such a thing existed this forum board would be deserted. As members of this time-frame we come from different ethnic backgrounds, our ancestors have lived in different parts of the world and have moved around from place to place for thousands of years. What foods and bacteria cause overproduction of sebum, food for Propionibacterium acnes, that you, as an individual of a certain ethnicity, have came in contact with?

Heritage. What bacteria and germs has your ancestry built immunity towards? What bacteria are you, as the descendant, susceptible to? Is it possible that acne occurrence in United States is so high because your ancestors did not evolve on this land (except Native American which do have lower percentage of acne prevalence from what I read)?

Environment. Is the humidity or temperature or sun-hours something that your body not agreeing with? Is it the local dirt and/or bacteria that your skin doesn't like? Maybe your ancestors came from a place where the environment was different. Maybe it's all the food that is being grown thousands of miles away that you eat every day cause you to break out? Is it about what your ancestors were used to eating or your current environment, meaning, would it be better to eat only locally grown and slaughtered things or not? I know I'm talking about food, but I think it's all inter-related.

I am not a scientist or historian or anthropologist of any sort. I am just a guy who believes that the world makes sense and that we have the ability to find answers we're looking for by beginning to ask the right questions. I might be totally wrong about this and I might sound like an ignoramus, but I want people to start thinking outside the box a little bit because it is obvious that shit has not been working out so far.

Think about things that scientist aren't able to think about because of their ultra-linear thinking. They think about the production of sebum and how to stop inflammation, but I don't think they are thinking of WHY this is happening on a deeper cause-and-effect level. If you can provide evidence to completely disprove my line of reasoning I would be very accepting because it would be another thing I can scratch off my list.

What I would like to see from this is to maybe spark some deeper thought about this. Maybe we can organize and test out a couple of things based on location/ethnicity of people. If I am wrong, someone on this board might come up with a different hypothesis and we can test that out as well. I know it is possible to find a cure for acne because we are on the internet where thousands of people can contribute and I can't think of a group of people more motivated to find an answer than sufferers of acne, because I don't know about you, but I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!

Edited by WTF MAN!?, 26 June 2011 - 09:17 PM.

[chunkylard]

Hi, I'm new to the board. I have been suffering with acne for 11 years off and on and I am sick and tired of it as I am sure all of you are. Nothing worse than waking up in the morning with hopes of slightly clearer skin that morning and discovering a new outbreak in the mirror. WTF MAN?! How do you go about your day optimistically from that point on? But I digress.

What I have come to realize over the years of trying to find a cure for acne is 1) No one really knows why acne happens; 2) No one really knows of a universal cure (and I would argue there is no such thing); 3) Different things work for different people. All these things have created this web of confusion that I am sure many of you are entangled in and I am not satisfied, not satisfied at all. I am frustrated and angry, as I am sure all of you are. We live in a world that is governed by science! There must be some sort of order -- things have to make sense, otherwise our existence would not be possible!

I'm afraid you're wrong. "We" do know what causes acne. It's a mixture of several elements that on their own might not be all that detrimental or even bad for skin. But when these elements come together, they manifest in the form of acne.

I'd also argue that although there are differences from one person to the next (I for one am allergic to artichokes but I still recognize that they're a healthy food) there are foods every single person on this planet should be avoiding. Those foods are: gluten-containing grains, dairy, soy, processed sugars/carbs, trans fats. No matter who you are, your body does not like those things nor does it need them.

Plenty of people say "oh well XYZ doesn't break me out so it's ok to include in my diet." Not quite. I've never had any sort of breakout from dairy but I know that it's not something to include in my diet virtually 99% of the time. The rare 1% is when I consume kefir or kefir cheese. Cigarettes also don't break me out but I don't smoke them.

Is it possible that factors such as your diet, heritage, and environment are all linked and the reason why different things work for different people is the result of the numerous and (seemingly) unlimited number of permutations that arise from these factors and those factors' sub-factors?

Short answer: yes. Evolution hasn't created every race equal. Many Asians, Polynesians and Native Americans get drunk very easily and suffer far worse side effects than, oh say, someone from Eurasia (Russia.)

There are several races which also gain weight MUCH easier than others, especially when introduced to a SAD way of eating and lifestyle.

What got me thinking about this is that I read somewhere that the indigenous peoples of Papua New Guinea, parts of Africa, and South America do not suffer from acne and at the very worst only a very small percentage of them do. Is it possible the reason for this is that they have lived on the same land, in the same environment, eating the same thing for at least 10,000 years? They have been dealing with the same germs, building immunity to the same bacteria since the dawn of modern man (and way before). Could this be why they do not have the same prevalence of acne in their population?

It's because they're eating the diet that humans were meant to eat.

When the Spaniards came over to the New World they, unknowingly, brought with them smallpox which decimated the indigenous peoples and have killed off as many as 95% of the population in the New World. Why? Because the Aztec and the Inca did not have the same farm animals that the Europeans had. Their children did not get to play around in these farm animals' filth for several dozen centuries and they did not get an opportunity to develop any sort of immunity to smallpox -- zero. Hence the widespread devastation.

Diet seems to be a popular explanation for acne, but why isn't there one diet that has been proven to cure acne? If such a thing existed this forum board would be deserted. As members of this time-frame we come from different ethnic backgrounds, our ancestors have lived in different parts of the world and have moved around from place to place for thousands of years. What foods and bacteria cause overproduction of sebum, food for Propionibacterium acnes, that you, as an individual of a certain ethnicity, have came in contact with?

There is such a diet. It's called the Paleo Diet. Common sense dictates that if you eat the food Mother Nature intended, you won't suffer from diseases of affluence. Thankfully, more and more people are discovering it and adjusting it to fit their lives and specific food sensitivities/intolerance/allergies.

Heritage. What bacteria and germs has your ancestry built immunity towards? What bacteria are you, as the descendant, susceptible to? Is it possible that acne occurrence in United States is so high because your ancestors did not evolve on this land (except Native American which do have lower percentage of acne prevalence from what I read)?

Environment. Is the humidity or temperature or sun-hours something that your body not agreeing with? Is it the local dirt and/or bacteria that your skin doesn't like? Maybe your ancestors came from a place where the environment was different. Maybe it's all the food that is being grown thousands of miles away that you eat every day cause you to break out? Is it about what your ancestors were used to eating or your current environment, meaning, would it be better to eat only locally grown and slaughtered things or not? I know I'm talking about food, but I think it's all inter-related.

I am not a scientist or historian or anthropologist of any sort. I am just a guy who believes that the world makes sense and that we have the ability to find answers we're looking for by beginning to ask the right questions. I might be totally wrong about this and I might sound like an ignoramus, but I want people to start thinking outside the box a little bit because it is obvious that shit has not been working out so far.

Think about things that scientist aren't able to think about because of their ultra-linear thinking. They think about the production of sebum and how to stop inflammation, but I don't think they are thinking of WHY this is happening on a deeper cause-and-effect level. If you can provide evidence to completely disprove my line of reasoning I would be very accepting because it would be another thing I can scratch off my list.

You're not wrong. It's this boxed thinking that got many of us here in the first place. I used to think acne was caused solely by bacteria. So I kept washing my face religiously. Needless to say, no amount of washing your face will ever clear your acne. In order to do that, you need to improve your lifestyle (exercise, getting adequate sunshine, getting adequate sleep, living in a health conducive environment and eating right.)

What I would like to see from this is to maybe spark some deeper thought about this. Maybe we can organize and test out a couple of things based on location/ethnicity of people. If I am wrong, someone on this board might come up with a different hypothesis and we can test that out as well. I know it is possible to find a cure for acne because we are on the internet where thousands of people can contribute and I can't think of a group of people more motivated to find an answer than sufferers of acne, because I don't know about you, but I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!

Basically, the answer to your question is that yes, there are people that are more prone to acne than others. Yes, race does have some part in it, albeit a small one. Yes, your environment affects not only acne but a bunch of physiological processes. And arguably the most important, diet does affect acne regardless of what the modern medical society refuses to acknowledge.

What always struck me as odd is that dermatologists adamantly refuse to admit that there's a connection between how you eat and acne. But then they also turn around and say "eat healthy and eat plenty of vegetables because they're good for the skin." Well...which is it? Does diet affect skin or not?

If I waited until dermatologists took their head out of their ass and stopped prescribing antibiotics for every little thing and creating superbugs en masse, I'd still have acne.

Rule of thumbs is: look at the modern medical industry/cult and add 10 years. That's how far along we actually are. They're about 10 years behind the rest of us.

[epicdermis]

Environment. Is the humidity or temperature or sun-hours something that your body not agreeing with? Is it the local dirt and/or bacteria that your skin doesn't like? Maybe your ancestors came from a place where the environment was different. Maybe it's all the food that is being grown thousands of miles away that you eat every day cause you to break out? Is it about what your ancestors were used to eating or your current environment, meaning, would it be better to eat only locally grown and slaughtered things or not? I know I'm talking about food, but I think it's all inter-related.

I've been wondering about this recently. I seem to break out whenever I travel, even when I strictly follow my diet, bring all my supplements along with me, use the same products I use at home, etc. Are there certain kinds of bacteria my skin has adjusted to, and others that trigger inflammatory response? What if, instead of using stuff like BP and antibiotics to sterilize your skin, you used a "probiotic" and colonized your skin with some kind of non-inflammatory strain of bacteria?

[alternativista]

Yes, it's heritage aka genetics, diet, lifestyle habits like physical activity, sleep, binge eating vs intermittent fasting, which you left out and environmental factors which include pollutants. All these things affect how well your body is able to function properly.

[myskinisHELL]

Hi, I'm new to the board. I have been suffering with acne for 11 years off and on and I am sick and tired of it as I am sure all of you are. Nothing worse than waking up in the morning with hopes of slightly clearer skin that morning and discovering a new outbreak in the mirror. WTF MAN?! How do you go about your day optimistically from that point on? But I digress.

What I have come to realize over the years of trying to find a cure for acne is 1) No one really knows why acne happens; 2) No one really knows of a universal cure (and I would argue there is no such thing); 3) Different things work for different people. All these things have created this web of confusion that I am sure many of you are entangled in and I am not satisfied, not satisfied at all. I am frustrated and angry, as I am sure all of you are. We live in a world that is governed by science! There must be some sort of order -- things have to make sense, otherwise our existence would not be possible!

I'm afraid you're wrong. "We" do know what causes acne. It's a mixture of several elements that on their own might not be all that detrimental or even bad for skin. But when these elements come together, they manifest in the form of acne.

I'd also argue that although there are differences from one person to the next (I for one am allergic to artichokes but I still recognize that they're a healthy food) there are foods every single person on this planet should be avoiding. Those foods are: gluten-containing grains, dairy, soy, processed sugars/carbs, trans fats. No matter who you are, your body does not like those things nor does it need them.

Plenty of people say "oh well XYZ doesn't break me out so it's ok to include in my diet." Not quite. I've never had any sort of breakout from dairy but I know that it's not something to include in my diet virtually 99% of the time. The rare 1% is when I consume kefir or kefir cheese. Cigarettes also don't break me out but I don't smoke them.

Is it possible that factors such as your diet, heritage, and environment are all linked and the reason why different things work for different people is the result of the numerous and (seemingly) unlimited number of permutations that arise from these factors and those factors' sub-factors?

Short answer: yes. Evolution hasn't created every race equal. Many Asians, Polynesians and Native Americans get drunk very easily and suffer far worse side effects than, oh say, someone from Eurasia (Russia.)

There are several races which also gain weight MUCH easier than others, especially when introduced to a SAD way of eating and lifestyle.

What got me thinking about this is that I read somewhere that the indigenous peoples of Papua New Guinea, parts of Africa, and South America do not suffer from acne and at the very worst only a very small percentage of them do. Is it possible the reason for this is that they have lived on the same land, in the same environment, eating the same thing for at least 10,000 years? They have been dealing with the same germs, building immunity to the same bacteria since the dawn of modern man (and way before). Could this be why they do not have the same prevalence of acne in their population?

It's because they're eating the diet that humans were meant to eat.

When the Spaniards came over to the New World they, unknowingly, brought with them smallpox which decimated the indigenous peoples and have killed off as many as 95% of the population in the New World. Why? Because the Aztec and the Inca did not have the same farm animals that the Europeans had. Their children did not get to play around in these farm animals' filth for several dozen centuries and they did not get an opportunity to develop any sort of immunity to smallpox -- zero. Hence the widespread devastation.

Diet seems to be a popular explanation for acne, but why isn't there one diet that has been proven to cure acne? If such a thing existed this forum board would be deserted. As members of this time-frame we come from different ethnic backgrounds, our ancestors have lived in different parts of the world and have moved around from place to place for thousands of years. What foods and bacteria cause overproduction of sebum, food for Propionibacterium acnes, that you, as an individual of a certain ethnicity, have came in contact with?

There is such a diet. It's called the Paleo Diet. Common sense dictates that if you eat the food Mother Nature intended, you won't suffer from diseases of affluence. Thankfully, more and more people are discovering it and adjusting it to fit their lives and specific food sensitivities/intolerance/allergies.

Heritage. What bacteria and germs has your ancestry built immunity towards? What bacteria are you, as the descendant, susceptible to? Is it possible that acne occurrence in United States is so high because your ancestors did not evolve on this land (except Native American which do have lower percentage of acne prevalence from what I read)?

Environment. Is the humidity or temperature or sun-hours something that your body not agreeing with? Is it the local dirt and/or bacteria that your skin doesn't like? Maybe your ancestors came from a place where the environment was different. Maybe it's all the food that is being grown thousands of miles away that you eat every day cause you to break out? Is it about what your ancestors were used to eating or your current environment, meaning, would it be better to eat only locally grown and slaughtered things or not? I know I'm talking about food, but I think it's all inter-related.

I am not a scientist or historian or anthropologist of any sort. I am just a guy who believes that the world makes sense and that we have the ability to find answers we're looking for by beginning to ask the right questions. I might be totally wrong about this and I might sound like an ignoramus, but I want people to start thinking outside the box a little bit because it is obvious that shit has not been working out so far.

Think about things that scientist aren't able to think about because of their ultra-linear thinking. They think about the production of sebum and how to stop inflammation, but I don't think they are thinking of WHY this is happening on a deeper cause-and-effect level. If you can provide evidence to completely disprove my line of reasoning I would be very accepting because it would be another thing I can scratch off my list.

You're not wrong. It's this boxed thinking that got many of us here in the first place. I used to think acne was caused solely by bacteria. So I kept washing my face religiously. Needless to say, no amount of washing your face will ever clear your acne. In order to do that, you need to improve your lifestyle (exercise, getting adequate sunshine, getting adequate sleep, living in a health conducive environment and eating right.)

What I would like to see from this is to maybe spark some deeper thought about this. Maybe we can organize and test out a couple of things based on location/ethnicity of people. If I am wrong, someone on this board might come up with a different hypothesis and we can test that out as well. I know it is possible to find a cure for acne because we are on the internet where thousands of people can contribute and I can't think of a group of people more motivated to find an answer than sufferers of acne, because I don't know about you, but I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!

Basically, the answer to your question is that yes, there are people that are more prone to acne than others. Yes, race does have some part in it, albeit a small one. Yes, your environment affects not only acne but a bunch of physiological processes. And arguably the most important, diet does affect acne regardless of what the modern medical society refuses to acknowledge.

What always struck me as odd is that dermatologists adamantly refuse to admit that there's a connection between how you eat and acne. But then they also turn around and say "eat healthy and eat plenty of vegetables because they're good for the skin." Well...which is it? Does diet affect skin or not?

If I waited until dermatologists took their head out of their ass and stopped prescribing antibiotics for every little thing and creating superbugs en masse, I'd still have acne.

Rule of thumbs is: look at the modern medical industry/cult and add 10 years. That's how far along we actually are. They're about 10 years behind the rest of us.

I'm very interested in the Paleo Diet. You seem very knowledgeable so I was wondering if you could you tell me a little bit more about it, or if that's too much of a hassle, send me a link with lotsa info on it, including a list of foods I CAN and CANNOT eat on the Paleo diet? Thanks so much.
:]

[mackthetemp]

Hey OP,

I having a very similar train of though today.

I was reading up on dietary supplements, some testimonials of users on these boards and any scraps of evidence that some scientifically savvy users pasted to support some of these claims. If you troll the boards for a couple hours you're likely to come across claims from some users suggesting that

• Vitamin D
• Vitamin B5
• Vitamin A
• Calcium
• Magnesium

supplements were the key to clearing up their acne. A couple users were willing to get blood tests, and they were found to be vitamin D deficient and used it to improve their skin condition. This is consistent with my experience living in Toronto where we receive enough sunlight for a few months of the year to boost our Vitamin D levels via UV radiation.

The idea that acne results from a deficiency in one or more of various vitamins is intriguing. Further, it seems to relate directly to your broad notion that acne is linked to diet, heritage (genetics), and environment (which is often linked to diet and sun exposure). For instance, I read that Inuit (northern Canadian native peoples) who have had a diet of seal and other native species are able to tolerate ingestion of Vitamin A at levels which are toxic to others. This is also reflected in the experience of users on these boards who have ingested incredible amounts of Vitamin A with or without experiencing any decrease in their acne.

If someone could try to explain the interaction of these ( and possibly other ) essential nutrients as they relate to the formation of acne/sebum/exfoliation; then perhaps we'd could try to determine which supplements should be included (and excluded) from a list of supplements that one could use as a guide for getting blood work done. If our collective reasoning/research yielded a reasonable list of nutrients that may be at the root of an individuals acne problem. I'm sure there would be no shortage of people who would be willing to prove us right/wrong in their quest to clear up their skin.

Cheers,
Mack

Edited by mackthetemp, 04 July 2011 - 07:31 PM.