19 replies to this topic

[greentiger87]

Main Point - NO ONE should pay for Epiduo. Ask for generic Differin. Buy some great benzoyl peroxide from your drugstore, or better yet - use Dans! Use them at the same time if you want. Use the benzoyl peroxide generously, without worrying about putting on too much retinoid, or how much Epiduo costs per drop.

Scientists have known since at least 1998 that adapalene (Differin) is remarkably stable in the presence of benzoyl peroxide, especially when it isn't exposed to open air or UV light (that is, the conditions in a tube of the drug).

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046...390s2008.x/full

The patent, held by Galderma, expired in May 2010, as you can confirm at the FDA website. It was originally approved in May 2000, with 10 years of exclusivity.

http://www.betterchem.com/pharmaceuticals/ADAPALENE/data.htm

This makes cheap, generic adapalene available. I confirmed this by asking for generic when I filled my Differin prescription. I was met with some resistance, but when the clerk looked it up - it was there. It's right in front of me, produced by "Teva Pharmaceuticals". You can see that another company, Nycomed, was granted a patent for adapalene in June 2010, obviously with no exclusivity.

Lo and behold what Galderma was able to get approved in December of 2008! The patent for a mixture of Benzoyl Peroxide and Differin, touted as a stable, combination formulation.

http://www.drugpatentwatch.com/ultimate/pr...hp?query=EPIDUO

Finally, here's the full ingredient list for Epiduo, at the bottom of the FDA Information Guide.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/epiduo.html


ADAPALENE (ADAPALENE) Active 1 MILLIGRAM In 1 GRAM
BENZOYL PEROXIDE (BENZOYL PEROXIDE) Active 25 MILLIGRAM In 1 GRAM

acrylamide/sodium acryloyldimethyltaurate copolymer
docusate sodium
edetate disodium
glycerin
isohexadecane
poloxamer 124
polysorbate 80
propylene glycol
water
sorbitan oleate

I see a bunch of surfactants/emulsfiers, emollients, penetration enhancers, a preservative, and a gel-maker. No dedicated antioxidant or other ingredient meant to keep adapalene and benzoyl peroxide from reacting. We already know they don't react to any practical extent. What's special about this formulation?

Nothing. It's no different than mixing together a good quality benzoyl peroxide and cheap, generic adapalene in the palm of your hand, and applying it.

The creation of Epiduo was purely a moneymaking scheme to extend the profit Galderma was raking in from Differin beyond the expiration of its patent.

And of course, dermatologists push it because its the newest thing available, and really a great combination!

Does this not make anyone else fume inside? This is the kind of stuff that is driving up healthcare costs to the point that average people can't afford insurance.

NO ONE should pay for Epiduo. Ask for generic Differin. Buy some great benzoyl peroxide from your drugstore, or better yet - use Dans! Use them at the same time if you want. Use the benzoyl peroxide generously, without worrying about putting on too much retinoid, or how much Epiduo costs per drop.

Edited by greentiger87, 04 January 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[willow569]

Good information for people to have, especially if they are trying to save money on prescription medications.

It also bothers me that most of the research done on these different prescription meds is done by the pharmaceutical industry, and rarely by independent researchers (true of many types of medications, not just acne treatments). But, that's a whole other can of worms...

[Ryan C]

Great info gt.

I heard a few people mention Epiduo, but I seriously didn't know what the hell it was. I used Differin awhile back.. but Epiduo didn't even exist.

I can't stand that these companies grasp for money any way they can like this. It just shows how the acne prevention industry has so many companies that try and take advantage of their consumers. Well-formulated products from honest suppliers are too hard to come by these days

P.S.: I think this deserves to be pinned.

Edited by Ryan C, 07 January 2011 - 02:08 AM.

[20something20]

Good information for people to have, especially if they are trying to save money on prescription medications.

It also bothers me that most of the research done on these different prescription meds is done by the pharmaceutical industry, and rarely by independent researchers (true of many types of medications, not just acne treatments). But, that's a whole other can of worms...

Not trying to offend anyone here and I by no means sympathize with farmaceutical companies (as they make enough profit ), BUT the whole reason patents where invented was to make sure these companies could make any profit at all after doing tons of expensive research. People have no idea how much money is being spent on research for new meds and if it weren't for patents, they would no longer bother and indeed the government would have to make those expenses for independent research in the form of taxmoney. In the end it's the same as the user of the meds kinda pays for it now anyway. But it's a choice of the governments, so they're to blame, not the companies.

The good news: researchers in pharmaceutical companies are well paid, so they can attract talented people. Plus they are being managed by managers and have far greater incentives for doing a good job (read: keeping their job and a great salary). It's well known how low productivity was in communist countries, so I think overall they're doing a great job and have already developped lots of great meds (but of course, they also try to make money by selling small, ridiculous adaptations, such as indeed epiduo).

[greentiger87]

Good information for people to have, especially if they are trying to save money on prescription medications.

It also bothers me that most of the research done on these different prescription meds is done by the pharmaceutical industry, and rarely by independent researchers (true of many types of medications, not just acne treatments). But, that's a whole other can of worms...

Not trying to offend anyone here and I by no means sympathize with farmaceutical companies (as they make enough profit ), BUT the whole reason patents where invented was to make sure these companies could make any profit at all after doing tons of expensive research. People have no idea how much money is being spent on research for new meds and if it weren't for patents, they would no longer bother and indeed the government would have to make those expenses for independent research in the form of taxmoney. In the end it's the same as the user of the meds kinda pays for it now anyway. But it's a choice of the governments, so they're to blame, not the companies.

The good news: researchers in pharmaceutical companies are well paid, so they can attract talented people. Plus they are being managed by managers and have far greater incentives for doing a good job (read: keeping their job and a great salary). It's well known how low productivity was in communist countries, so I think overall they're doing a great job and have already developped lots of great meds (but of course, they also try to make money by selling small, ridiculous adaptations, such as indeed epiduo).

I certainly wasn't suggesting that we move the pharmaceutical industry to a command economy 0.o. The problem is that corporations don't have morals in the same way that individual people do.. and have a disturbing propensity to dilute the ethics of their employees through groupthink and disembodied profit goals.

There is no doubt that pharmaceutical companies are making egregious profits... they're doing fantastic even in the midst of the recession. The profit margins are outrageous. Our healthcare system operates in a fundamentally unsustainable way. We subsidize the healthcare of the entire world by paying exorbitant prices for drugs that are most often researched and produced right here in the US.

There are just too many perverse incentives. Galderma has made more than enough money on Differin to recoup its development and research costs. Now it's time for the science behind it to go back into the public domain, where scientific knowledge should always end up. Patents are important for research to progress, but so are patent limits. Companies could still be very successful without pulling bizarre tricks like this one with epiduo (this is hardly the worst case).

Edited by greentiger87, 08 January 2011 - 05:10 PM.

[johnny28]

How much guys do you pay for Epiduo? I live in Sweden and it's about €12 for me. Certainly not that big deal..

[greentiger87]

How much guys do you pay for Epiduo? I live in Sweden and it's about €12 for me. Certainly not that big deal..

Lol, my point exactly. It's 200 dollars w/o insurance at online pharmacies, likely more at brick-and-mortar pharmacies. How much the insurance covers is variable.

My generic adapalene was a $10.00 copay on a $20.00 total cost.

[nebraskagirl]

My generic adapalene was a $10.00 copay on a $20.00 total cost.

No way was it $20 total, without insurance! My Target receipt from my last generic adapalene prescription said that the retail price was $195.00. Epiduo is more expensive, but not by much-- the difference is that Epiduo wouldn't have been covered by my insurance, but the adapalene was.

You're not wrong about the shiftiness of the pharmaceutical companies, I'm just saying that generic adapalene isn't cheap without insurance either.

Edited by nebraskagirl, 12 January 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[mboona]

But .3% differin is not available as a generic.
or is it?

and you say that you mix it with your hands? What I do is apply differin first wait 5 minutes for it to dry and then bp on my chin at night. and use bp again in the morning throughout problem areas on face.

Edited by mboona, 09 February 2011 - 12:35 PM.

[BV =)]

wow i never knew that. my doc always gives me epiduo. should i stop using it or what? lyk currently instead of the epiduo, im using facial cleansing pads with tea tree oil. well actually ive briefly stopped using the pads and have been applying antibotic ointment on my scars cuz ive heard that it helps but idk. wat do u guys think would be best?
thanks =)

[Wynne]

wow i never knew that. my doc always gives me epiduo. should i stop using it or what? lyk currently instead of the epiduo, im using facial cleansing pads with tea tree oil. well actually ive briefly stopped using the pads and have been applying antibotic ointment on my scars cuz ive heard that it helps but idk. wat do u guys think would be best?
thanks =)

Ask your doctor. The point of the first post is not to say that Epiduo is bad or doesn't work, it's to say there are cheaper ways of using a facsimile. All Epiduo is: 2.5% BP and Differin. Buy them separately and it's likely cheaper!

[abigailwheeler]

Just wanted to say that Epiduo is working for me (you can see the progress in my gallery) and I paid £7.40 for it.

There are lots of people on here that it has worked for as well. Derms wouldn't prescribe it if it didn't work.

[WishClear127]

Good information for people to have, especially if they are trying to save money on prescription medications.

It also bothers me that most of the research done on these different prescription meds is done by the pharmaceutical industry, and rarely by independent researchers (true of many types of medications, not just acne treatments). But, that's a whole other can of worms...

Not trying to offend anyone here and I by no means sympathize with farmaceutical companies (as they make enough profit ), BUT the whole reason patents where invented was to make sure these companies could make any profit at all after doing tons of expensive research. People have no idea how much money is being spent on research for new meds and if it weren't for patents, they would no longer bother and indeed the government would have to make those expenses for independent research in the form of taxmoney. In the end it's the same as the user of the meds kinda pays for it now anyway. But it's a choice of the governments, so they're to blame, not the companies.

The good news: researchers in pharmaceutical companies are well paid, so they can attract talented people. Plus they are being managed by managers and have far greater incentives for doing a good job (read: keeping their job and a great salary). It's well known how low productivity was in communist countries, so I think overall they're doing a great job and have already developped lots of great meds (but of course, they also try to make money by selling small, ridiculous adaptations, such as indeed epiduo).

I totally agree. Patents are extremely important. Without them, there would be no reason for companies to put money into R&D, and these medicines would not be available to acne sufferers.

[Flyer17]

Good information for people to have, especially if they are trying to save money on prescription medications.

It also bothers me that most of the research done on these different prescription meds is done by the pharmaceutical industry, and rarely by independent researchers (true of many types of medications, not just acne treatments). But, that's a whole other can of worms...

Not trying to offend anyone here and I by no means sympathize with farmaceutical companies (as they make enough profit ), BUT the whole reason patents where invented was to make sure these companies could make any profit at all after doing tons of expensive research. People have no idea how much money is being spent on research for new meds and if it weren't for patents, they would no longer bother and indeed the government would have to make those expenses for independent research in the form of taxmoney. In the end it's the same as the user of the meds kinda pays for it now anyway. But it's a choice of the governments, so they're to blame, not the companies.

The good news: researchers in pharmaceutical companies are well paid, so they can attract talented people. Plus they are being managed by managers and have far greater incentives for doing a good job (read: keeping their job and a great salary). It's well known how low productivity was in communist countries, so I think overall they're doing a great job and have already developped lots of great meds (but of course, they also try to make money by selling small, ridiculous adaptations, such as indeed epiduo).

I totally agree. Patents are extremely important. Without them, there would be no reason for companies to put money into R&D, and these medicines would not be available to acne sufferers.

Yeah, but what good does that do when the patents are only enforceable in the United States? Without throwing this thread too far off-track, simply put, it usually ends up being the American consumer that picks up the tab for the research through higher Rx prices while the exact same product is sold at a fraction of the cost elsewhere.

[russell pattay]

epiduo and adapalene are in the same tier (price range on my insurance). should i ask my dermatologist to fill two prescriptions and purchase the cheaper one? for some reason, mine needed prior authirization and denied the claim, but the trial card rebate thing they have covered all but $35. it's sad how unaccessible prescription drugs are in the US and how confusing insurance can be.

[luckycat]

1. WE are paying for most of the research behind product development. 2. The very companies that charge $200 a prescription here in the U.S., set up divisions in other countries and charge as little as $20 for identical or slightly modified products. (Ahem, Johnson & Johnson) 3. Sometimes, these treatments are actually superior products due to saner (for lack of a better term) drug regulations. It is obscene really what the pharmaceutical industry gets away with in this country. I've actually been steaming over this absurdity all week.

Edited by luckycat, 30 October 2011 - 02:19 AM.

[david1017]

All the dermatologists I've seen (at least in California), have coupons for 35$ Epiduo. I'd say it's worth the 35 bucks considering it lasts quite a while. And without having to mix adapelene and bp, etc. That's how much I've been paying.

Without the coupon, you may be right.

[gecko333]

Really makes me so glad I don't live in America. Having to pay for medication is the most disgusting inhumane idea I have ever heard of.
My Epiduo is Free, as it should be.

[abigailwheeler]

gecko333, on 10 November 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Really makes me so glad I don't live in America. Having to pay for medication is the most disgusting inhumane idea I have ever heard of.
My Epiduo is Free, as it should be.

How do you get it for free?! I pay £7.40 every time

Wooo Birmingham!

[gecko333]

abigailwheeler, on 11 November 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

gecko333, on 10 November 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Really makes me so glad I don't live in America. Having to pay for medication is the most disgusting inhumane idea I have ever heard of.
My Epiduo is Free, as it should be.

How do you get it for free?! I pay £7.40 every time

Wooo Birmingham!

abigailwheeler, on 11 November 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

gecko333, on 10 November 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Really makes me so glad I don't live in America. Having to pay for medication is the most disgusting inhumane idea I have ever heard of.
My Epiduo is Free, as it should be.

How do you get it for free?! I pay £7.40 every time

Wooo Birmingham!

I'm a student who only works a few hours a week so I'm exempt from prescription charges
I wouldn't mind paying £7.40 though compared to £200+ in other countries.