32 replies to this topic

[Giantsbran1227]

Throughout the day my skin is very oily and it bothers me alot. I am constantly having to blot my face and it is a big confidence issue for me.

But then after I take a shower and wash my face my skin is still VERY shiny with no oil at all. How can I get that more matte look and also reduce the oil?

[toomuchaccutane]

Throughout the day my skin is very oily and it bothers me alot. I am constantly having to blot my face and it is a big confidence issue for me.

But then after I take a shower and wash my face my skin is still VERY shiny with no oil at all. How can I get that more matte look and also reduce the oil?

By taking accutane. that's the only way. other than that, you will just have to deal with oily skin. I used to have EXTREMELY OILY SKIN. but took accutane an no longer have any oil.

[assassin.]

What the above poster said.

[ItalianBoy]

^ What he said.

[Giantsbran1227]

Im a breakdancer and have heard that accutane can damage your joints severely which is something i cannot risk. Are there any safer options?

[Warrior of Acne]

I do not think there are any other treatments that work other than Accutane. You will have to decide if it is worth it.

[Buke]

somebody said accutane is the only way, wrong. JUST READ
I replied this on several different posts: I also tried a lot of antibiotics: doxycycline, erythromycin, Bactrim, clindamycin (oral), penicillin, amoxicillin, and currently ciprofloxacin. Erythromycin and clindamycin didn't work at all for my acne. I think it's because those are most effective against gram-negative bacteria or gram positive, I can't remember which one. All the other antibiotics are effective on both the gram type bacteria. The derms suggested accutane many times. I had reasons, other than side effects, why I didn't want to take it. I left that hospital and went somewhere else, that's where i got the cipro. It isn't the only thing i got, though. Acne is mainly caused by hormone imbalances. Your body is has wayy too much testosterone, and is telling your body to produce all kinds of oil. That oil clogs your pores and traps the bacteria, forming acne. Antiandrogens are used to control the testosterone level. So the doctor also decided to put me on spironolactone "spiro". This is proven to treat server acne, and get rid of all the excess oil. Many people go on this for an acne medication. Some also get a birth control pill to improve the effectiveness. It takes anywhere from 1-3 months to start clearing acne. It only takes 1-2 weeks for all the oil to stop being produced. I was able to go 12 hours without washing my face; no oil. Usually I have so much oil, I have to wash it every couple hours. I read, I believe on this site, this girl was on antibiotics, and accutane. The accutane stoped working after a while, so she went on this and stayed clear. Go to google and type Spironolactone for acne, read the reviews. I would bring this up to your derm. You also want a healthy immune system. Take a multivitamin, and zinc 50 mg capsules (1 or twice daily). If you have scars, take a shower at night. After the shower, break a zinc capsule open, pour the powder on your finger tips, use your other hand to sprinkle water on the powder, rub it in untill it's like a liquid, and rub it on your face. Leave that on over night, and you'll be good. Zinc is amazing. I think give zinc and spiro a shot. After 3-4 months if you still have acne, may God have mercy on your soul. Good luck to you and enjoy your life.

[Giantsbran1227]

somebody said accutane is the only way, wrong. JUST READ
I replied this on several different posts: I also tried a lot of antibiotics: doxycycline, erythromycin, Bactrim, clindamycin (oral), penicillin, amoxicillin, and currently ciprofloxacin. Erythromycin and clindamycin didn't work at all for my acne. I think it's because those are most effective against gram-negative bacteria or gram positive, I can't remember which one. All the other antibiotics are effective on both the gram type bacteria. The derms suggested accutane many times. I had reasons, other than side effects, why I didn't want to take it. I left that hospital and went somewhere else, that's where i got the cipro. It isn't the only thing i got, though. Acne is mainly caused by hormone imbalances. Your body is has wayy too much testosterone, and is telling your body to produce all kinds of oil. That oil clogs your pores and traps the bacteria, forming acne. Antiandrogens are used to control the testosterone level. So the doctor also decided to put me on spironolactone "spiro". This is proven to treat server acne, and get rid of all the excess oil. Many people go on this for an acne medication. Some also get a birth control pill to improve the effectiveness. It takes anywhere from 1-3 months to start clearing acne. It only takes 1-2 weeks for all the oil to stop being produced. I was able to go 12 hours without washing my face; no oil. Usually I have so much oil, I have to wash it every couple hours. I read, I believe on this site, this girl was on antibiotics, and accutane. The accutane stoped working after a while, so she went on this and stayed clear. Go to google and type Spironolactone for acne, read the reviews. I would bring this up to your derm. You also want a healthy immune system. Take a multivitamin, and zinc 50 mg capsules (1 or twice daily). If you have scars, take a shower at night. After the shower, break a zinc capsule open, pour the powder on your finger tips, use your other hand to sprinkle water on the powder, rub it in untill it's like a liquid, and rub it on your face. Leave that on over night, and you'll be good. Zinc is amazing. I think give zinc and spiro a shot. After 3-4 months if you still have acne, may God have mercy on your soul. Good luck to you and enjoy your life.

Isn't the spironolactone something that only girls take? Im a male....

[databased]

How can I get that more matte look and also reduce the oil?

By decreasing DHT levels in the skin. Two natural DHT inhibitors you can control are melatonin and lycopene.

Amplify melatonin levels by: going to bed at the same time each day, sleeping 9-10 hours each night in total darkness, eliminating caffeine (or reducing evening caffeine), avoiding mis-timed doses of melatonin from things like wine/beer, trying to keep your eyes in bright light as many hours as possible each day, increase intake of tryptophan-rich foods (e.g. meat) and decrease carbs most likely to interfere with the absorption of tryptophan (required to create melatonin) such as high-fructose fruits.

Amplify lycopene levels by: well, eating a crapload of lycopene. 60 grams of tomato sauce as many days of the week as you can work it into your food stream will give you big damn dose.

Take 50mg zinc (any form) and 200mcg of selenium per day, as well as a Vitamin B complex (to ensure tryptophan is not diverted to manufacture Vitamin B).

In contrast to a previous post, you don't want a healthy immune system; your immune system is already overreacting, which is how you get all the inflammation and pus of acne. Tell your immune system to take a Valium and listen to some Allman Brothers.

[Giantsbran1227]

How can I get that more matte look and also reduce the oil?

By decreasing DHT levels in the skin. Two natural DHT inhibitors you can control are melatonin and lycopene.

Amplify melatonin levels by: going to bed at the same time each day, sleeping 9-10 hours each night in total darkness, eliminating caffeine (or reducing evening caffeine), avoiding mis-timed doses of melatonin from things like wine/beer, trying to keep your eyes in bright light as many hours as possible each day, increase intake of tryptophan-rich foods (e.g. meat) and decrease carbs most likely to interfere with the absorption of tryptophan (required to create melatonin) such as high-fructose fruits.

Amplify lycopene levels by: well, eating a crapload of lycopene. 60 grams of tomato sauce as many days of the week as you can work it into your food stream will give you big damn dose.

Take 50mg zinc (any form) and 200mcg of selenium per day, as well as a Vitamin B complex (to ensure tryptophan is not diverted to manufacture Vitamin B).

In contrast to a previous post, you don't want a healthy immune system; your immune system is already overreacting, which is how you get all the inflammation and pus of acne. Tell your immune system to take a Valium and listen to some Allman Brothers.

I eat extremely healthy. Never any sugars, sweets, and most of my food is organic. I also supplement with ALOT of vitamins daily. Could this be the cause of the over healthy immune system? Also will lycopene and zinc help just with acne? Im more concerned about the shiny, oily skin.

I also have been taking 15 pills of B5 (7.5 grams) every day for about 2 weeks. I have not noticed much difference but I heard it helps. Do you think I should continue this?

Edited by Giantsbran1227, 18 November 2009 - 10:48 PM.

[databased]

I eat extremely healthy. Never any sugars, sweets, and most of my food is organic.

You're either saying you eat absolutely no fruit, or that you have the mistaken belief that a fructose molecule from an apple will magically behave differently in the body than a fructose molecule from a can of Coke. If you eat a lot of fruit like apples, pears, etc., then you are on a high-fructose diet, just like the obese guy filling up his Big Gulp at the Kwiky-Mart.

I also supplement with ALOT of vitamins daily. Could this be the cause of the over healthy immune system?

Your immune system is just pretty much irrelevant to the problem (except if you manage to knock it out, you won't be having acne).

Also will lycopene and zinc help just with acne? Im more concerned about the shiny, oily skin.

DHT is the handle to decrease sebum production. Lycopene is a plausible bet for interfering with DHT and to decrease its production. Zinc also interferes with the production of DHT.

I also have been taking 15 pills of B5 (7.5 grams) every day for about 2 weeks. I have not noticed much difference but I heard it helps. Do you think I should continue this?

I have little faith in megadosing B5, but I don't know any reason it should make oily skin worse.

Some people report less oil when using Nicomide. YMMV.

In an experiment too short to be conclusive, I've combined Nicomide with large-dose lycopene (~60 grams tomato sauce at least 4 nights/week) and seen a significant reduction in oil and shine. I suspect this is from the lycopene (that was the point of performing the experiment), since I don't have a direct biochemical mechanism by which nicotinamide could do this, but it will take time to confirm that in my own particular case.

Of course, I also work hard to have a normal melatonin cycle, which is crucial to keep my skin clear. But the addition of Nicomide/lycopene has specifically reduced oil production even further, or so it appears so far.

[Giantsbran1227]

Im a breakdancer who practices 6 days a week for hours. I need alot of carbs. Are you suggesting that I stop eating fruit?

Also is niacin the same thing as the thing you recommend to take with lycopene? Also can I take melatonin and lycopene in supplement form? Also would you recommend I chill out with all of the supplements? As long as I take the zinc and get the other nutrients you recommend, does it even matter what else I take? Im also thinking of starting cod liver oil. I greatly appreciate your elaborate responses. God Bless.

Edited by Giantsbran1227, 19 November 2009 - 01:38 PM.

[databased]

Im a breakdancer who practices 6 days a week for hours. I need alot of carbs. Are you suggesting that I stop eating fruit?

At least stop eating unnaturally large amounts of unnaturally sweet fruits. The Trobriand Islanders work and farm and fish all day, and then dance in the evening. They manage to do this and be (100%, totally, not a single lesion found among hundreds of men/women/children) acne-free while eating only very modest amounts of fruit (and not the super-sweet fruits you find in your local supermarket). They get most of their carbs from yams (but not the sweet orange potatoes commonly called "yams" in the U.S.). Why you specifically need "carbs" as opposed to "calories", I don't know, but carbs certainly exist in many forms other than fructose. If you gotta eat fruit, try to eat modest amounts, and try to stick to those with low fructose/glucose ratios (e.g., pineapple) and avoid those with high fructose/glucose ratios (apples, pears, etc.). When you live in dim indoor light all day, excess fructose is not your friend.

Also is niacin the same thing as the thing you recommend to take with lycopene?

"niacin" is a word used to refer to a number of different chemicals, each with different safety records and effects on the body. The form of niacin used in Nicomide is specifically nicotinamide. You can't just buy something labelled "niacin" and actually know what you're taking, you have to investigate what the exact chemical is in the active ingredient.

Also can I take melatonin and lycopene in supplement form?

Nope. There are (at least) two problems with melatonin supplements. Time it wrong, and you actually work against your natural melatonin cycle. The second problem is dose. Carry the biggest container of water you can carry out to your front yard and dump it there. Now leave the garden hose running in your back yard all night. In the morning, which yard is more flooded? That's the difference between trying to get melatonin from a pill, and getting it by having your pineal gland flood the body with melatonin all night long.

The problem with lycopene supplements is, they don't sell very large doses. 10mg is about the biggest I can find. I can get about ten times that much in one day by soaking my morning scrambled eggs in tomato sauce, and then cooking my evening chicken in a pot of tomato sauce. It's more tomato sauce than the average person would eat, but certainly not an insane amount. Since I've never been a big fan of tomato sauce (maybe if I had been, I wouldn't have had acne for years!), I figure if I can find a way to work it into the diet several times a week, most people probably can. If you got the bucks, you could get similar doses by just buying lots of bottles of lycopene supplements, but that assumes there's nothing else in the tomato that aids in digestability, bioavailability, etc. Worth a try if you really can't stand tomato sauce; I haven't tried it and have no opinion.

I am suspicious at this point that the yams the Trobriand Islanders eat every day may be fairly rich in lycopene (if anybody has done that analysis, I sure can't find it!) and that that, combined with the normal melatonin cycle they are forced to have (without caffeine or electric lights, they kinda have to live in bright outdoor light all day and sleep in darkness all night), is the key to the astounding 100% absence of acne, even in teenagers.

Also would you recommend I chill out with all of the supplements? As long as I take the zinc and get the other nutrients you recommend, does it even matter what else I take?

If you're experience shows they help you, I believe in whatever produces results.

I'm also thinking of starting cod liver oil.

Cod liver oil (as opposed to "fish oil") has a little Vitamin D, and a lot of Vitamin A. I'm really skeptical that Vitamin A (retinoic acid) is a Good Thing for acne, and I think it's possible it even hurts. In fact, I recently noticed a test-tube study where a table indicated, among all the topical treatments for acne, retinoic acid was alone in actually performing worse (more skin cells died off when touched by the P. acnes bacteria) than no treatment at all, when used at a high enough dose. Weirdly, the authors did not discuss that rather surprising data point, so I don't know if it was an error or not. Some Vitamin D researchers argue that retinoic acid may interfere with Vitamin D at the cell level, which I would not want.

In any case, I let my body make however much Vitamin A it wants, when and where it wants, by just eating carrots. In fact, I chop up a couple of carrots in the food processor, toss them in the tomato sauce, and it just gives it a little extra texture while making sure my diet is pretty crammed with carotenoids (at least by modern standards).

All IMHO!

[hope123]

Throughout the day my skin is very oily and it bothers me alot. I am constantly having to blot my face and it is a big confidence issue for me.

But then after I take a shower and wash my face my skin is still VERY shiny with no oil at all. How can I get that more matte look and also reduce the oil?

All I can tell you is 3 words and you can find it at the dollar store. Significantly helped me... read reviews for yourself on this site:

MILK of MAGNESIA

[Giantsbran1227]

Thanks Data. Ill try your routine and let you know if the oil goes down. I think ill just eat tomatoes raw instead of all the tomato sauce. Im guessing that will have the same effect...

[Giantsbran1227]

Since you seem to be an endorser of a paleo like type diet, why do you not believe in fruit? That diet clearly says that fruit is a great thing to eat.

Also I cant make my room fully dark at night. Would wearing a good eyemask give me the same effect?

Edited by Giantsbran1227, 20 November 2009 - 07:51 AM.

[toomuchaccutane]

I eat extremely healthy. Never any sugars, sweets, and most of my food is organic.

You're either saying you eat absolutely no fruit, or that you have the mistaken belief that a fructose molecule from an apple will magically behave differently in the body than a fructose molecule from a can of Coke. If you eat a lot of fruit like apples, pears, etc., then you are on a high-fructose diet, just like the obese guy filling up his Big Gulp at the Kwiky-Mart.

I also supplement with ALOT of vitamins daily. Could this be the cause of the over healthy immune system?

Your immune system is just pretty much irrelevant to the problem (except if you manage to knock it out, you won't be having acne).

Also will lycopene and zinc help just with acne? Im more concerned about the shiny, oily skin.

DHT is the handle to decrease sebum production. Lycopene is a plausible bet for interfering with DHT and to decrease its production. Zinc also interferes with the production of DHT.

I also have been taking 15 pills of B5 (7.5 grams) every day for about 2 weeks. I have not noticed much difference but I heard it helps. Do you think I should continue this?

I have little faith in megadosing B5, but I don't know any reason it should make oily skin worse.

Some people report less oil when using Nicomide. YMMV.

In an experiment too short to be conclusive, I've combined Nicomide with large-dose lycopene (~60 grams tomato sauce at least 4 nights/week) and seen a significant reduction in oil and shine. I suspect this is from the lycopene (that was the point of performing the experiment), since I don't have a direct biochemical mechanism by which nicotinamide could do this, but it will take time to confirm that in my own particular case.

Of course, I also work hard to have a normal melatonin cycle, which is crucial to keep my skin clear. But the addition of Nicomide/lycopene has specifically reduced oil production even further, or so it appears so far.

So what you're saying is that taking propecia (which lowers DHT levels) would lower sebum production in your skin and make your skin less oily?

somebody said accutane is the only way, wrong. JUST READ
I replied this on several different posts: I also tried a lot of antibiotics: doxycycline, erythromycin, Bactrim, clindamycin (oral), penicillin, amoxicillin, and currently ciprofloxacin. Erythromycin and clindamycin didn't work at all for my acne. I think it's because those are most effective against gram-negative bacteria or gram positive, I can't remember which one. All the other antibiotics are effective on both the gram type bacteria. The derms suggested accutane many times. I had reasons, other than side effects, why I didn't want to take it. I left that hospital and went somewhere else, that's where i got the cipro. It isn't the only thing i got, though. Acne is mainly caused by hormone imbalances. Your body is has wayy too much testosterone, and is telling your body to produce all kinds of oil. That oil clogs your pores and traps the bacteria, forming acne. Antiandrogens are used to control the testosterone level. So the doctor also decided to put me on spironolactone "spiro". This is proven to treat server acne, and get rid of all the excess oil. Many people go on this for an acne medication. Some also get a birth control pill to improve the effectiveness. It takes anywhere from 1-3 months to start clearing acne. It only takes 1-2 weeks for all the oil to stop being produced. I was able to go 12 hours without washing my face; no oil. Usually I have so much oil, I have to wash it every couple hours. I read, I believe on this site, this girl was on antibiotics, and accutane. The accutane stoped working after a while, so she went on this and stayed clear. Go to google and type Spironolactone for acne, read the reviews. I would bring this up to your derm. You also want a healthy immune system. Take a multivitamin, and zinc 50 mg capsules (1 or twice daily). If you have scars, take a shower at night. After the shower, break a zinc capsule open, pour the powder on your finger tips, use your other hand to sprinkle water on the powder, rub it in untill it's like a liquid, and rub it on your face. Leave that on over night, and you'll be good. Zinc is amazing. I think give zinc and spiro a shot. After 3-4 months if you still have acne, may God have mercy on your soul. Good luck to you and enjoy your life.

Accutane IS the only way. Show me scientific proof for some else.

[databased]

So what you're saying is that taking propecia (which lowers DHT levels) would lower sebum production in your skin and make your skin less oily?

To be specific, finasteride inhibits 5alpha reductase Type 2 isoenzyme (hence its rebirth as a prostate cancer preventative); it's not very good at inhibiting the Type 1 isoenzyme, which is what is relevant for skin. So yes, if you took enough propecia, it would lower sebum, but at the normal dosages given, most adult males will experience no measurable reduction in sebum. If you had chosen dutasteride (Avodart) instead, I would say "yes, that should work" since it inhibits Type 1 isoenzyme, but AFAICT no one has done that study yet, since the drug is relatively new.

This goes back to the uneducated confusion most acne sufferers have about "hormones". They don't know what hormones actually are, and they don't understand, in particular, that the sex hormones relevant to acne are manufactured locally, right in the skin. Yes, your skin produces sex hormones. And a great many other things. From the perspective of the endocrine system, the skin is effectively an extra gland.

AFAICT, most products aimed at treating "shiny skin" are aimed at inhibiting 5alpha reductase Type 1 isoenzyme, so apparently this is the universally accepted mechanism at this point.

Accutane IS the only way. Show me scientific proof for some else.

If you're happy with Accutane, then be happy. I prefer to try to understand acne well enough to be acne-free by changing my behavior. My suspicion is that long-term acne is a symptom of an underlying condition that has the potential to lead to other long-term health problems, and I doubt that Accutane treats that root condition.

I think ill just eat tomatoes raw instead of all the tomato sauce. Im guessing that will have the same effect...

No, it won't. Cooking makes the lycopene more digestible. Further, to get the same amount of lycopene as in a can of tomato sauce, you would have to eat as many tomatoes as it took to make that can of sauce. This is why tomato sauce is special: it represents a highly concentrated source of lycopene. Dose matters.

Since you seem to be an endorser of a paleo like type diet, why do you not believe in fruit? That diet clearly says that fruit is a great thing to eat.

I eat at McDonald's every day, I doubt if I qualify as a paleo endorser. The problem with fruit is it's been bred during the last couple centuries to have ever higher fructose content. A single large sweet apple can give you as much excess (over glucose) fructose as a can of Coke. Not a problem if you live in bright light all day. But since almost all modern humans live in dim indoor light, they have carb malabsorption. Fructose is the worst for carb malabsorption, which in turn keeps tryptophan and zinc from being absorbed, which in turn destroys your melatonin cycle and, in the end, means you don't have zinc superoxide dismutase right where it's needed to keep P. acnes from generating inflammation in your keratinocytes. The same people who would think a can of Coke is evil, would snarf down way more fructose by jamming fruits in their mouths. In the day of your great-grandfather, fruits were "sweets", and anyone would have told you you will make yourself sick by stuffing sweets in your mouth all day. However, now we live in the time of a health fad that says fruits are wonderful, so you constantly see people on these forums claiming they don't eat "sugar", when in fact they are stuffing themselves with sugar all day long. Eat all the fruit you want -- just understand you might as well be guzzling caffeine-free Coke, as far as the effect on acne is concerned.

Also I cant make my room fully dark at night. Would wearing a good eyemask give me the same effect?

Yes. Just don't whip it off and turn on the lights when you get up to go to the bathroom.

[Giantsbran1227]

Have you heard of saw palmetto? I heard it greatly reduces DHT levels

[databased]

Have you heard of saw palmetto? I heard it greatly reduces DHT levels

DHT in the skin is created differently than DHT in the prostate; almost all studies of "DHT levels" are targeting the prostate. I have taken saw palmetto for years with zero effect on acne or shiny skin. YMMV, since different effects have been seen from one brand to another, or even in different batches of saw palmetto from the same manufacturer (always a problem when trying to use a plant extract).

In fact, I don't think I've ever used a brand of saw palmetto that didn't come with at least some lycopene (currently 2mg). Since I get around 50 times that much lycopene by eating a 60-gram can of tomato sauce during the day, I'm skeptical that either saw palmetto or typical doses of lycopene supplements will make much of a dent in shiny skin; sure didn't work for me anyway.

Edited by databased, 20 November 2009 - 06:25 PM.