11 replies to this topic

[databased]

(For adults only, since it's not clear it's been studied in kids, or that there's a known safety record for taking mega-doses of niacinamide for years on end.)

Since people are taking niacin (often, a less safe form of niacin not shown to have any relevance to acne) for acne, I thought it worth pointing out you can roll your own version of a niacin treatment that was actually studied and that produced a measurable impact on acne symptoms for a significant percentage of those studied. Though sold as a prescription med as Nicomide, you can get all the ingredients off of iHerb.com (probably many other places as well):

• 3 Niacinamide pills
• 1 zinc pill
• 1/2 tablet copper
• 1/2 tablet folic acid

Take one set of these per day with meal. Allow 8 weeks for results (if any) to be established.

Nicomide is one of the more successful supplements for acne/rosacea, assuming their study wasn't fudged.

Of the patients studied, 79% reported their improvement in appearance as moderately better or much better, as measured by patient global evaluation, and 55% reported moderate (26%-50% reduction in lesions) or substantial (>50% reduction in lesions) improvement after 4 weeks of treatment (P<.0001). The percentage of patients who responded to therapy continued to increase through the 8 weeks of treatment.

Of course, self reporting is a lousy way to measure an acne treatment, one designed to give your product every percentage point due to placebo effect and optimistic patient bias. Still, for people dreaming of a pill solution, it's a chance to try something that was actually studied, where there's actually some record of safety (in adults, at least).

It may be that the megadose of niacinamide acts on acne exactly as one of the downstream effects of melatonin does: by regenerating glutathione, which takes out the excess superoxide that P. acnes needs to create inflammation.

[Crooked I]

I was just thinking about trying to replicate this the other day. I take niacinamide (not the used-for-cholesterol niacin) and zinc presently. What benefits do you think copper and folic acid have for acne though?

[databased]

What benefits do you think copper and folic acid have for acne though?

IMO, the copper is to cover their butts due to medical folklore that taking zinc might deplete you of copper. And, who knows, if you took 25mg of zinc 10 minutes before every single meal, maybe you could eventually have some detectable impact on copper levels. But since 100mg/day of zinc did not produce copper deficiency in elderly patients, I think the copper is more for legal defensibility than scientific reasons. I'm not sure there is a single modern study where modest-dose zinc supplementation was able to budge copper levels one whit. Or maybe I'm wrong, and they really think that copper/zinc superoxide dismutase is key and that people might be deficient in copper (despite the fact it gets into our drinking water and sprayed on many of our fruits).

Of all the other members of the Vitamin B family, folic acid would not have been my first choice. I have seen comments in the literature that folic acid has been "implicated" in acne, but have never actually managed to track down what study alleged that implication. Maybe they just figured that folic acid is the absolute safest of the Vitamin B family to include, and one that most people will be likely to be deficient in anyway.

OTOH, not very many acne studies get done, so I view this one as a relatively unique chance for anyone to replicate a study of a prescription med that claimed to produce highly significant improvement (as usual, nothing like a "cure") in just 4-8 weeks. That is a big ol' dose of niacinamide though, so I really would consult a doctor if you have any pre-existing medical conditions whatsoever.

[Crooked I]

Although not hugely learned in studying acne, I have never heard of folic acid being used as a treatment (although I've never searched for it directly). That said however, I'm pretty sure if you trawled through google long enough, you could probably find a success story involving acne and every supplement ever discovered/invented. Personally I think that most of these success stories are written by people who cleared up anyway, and attributed whatever success they had to the supplement they were taking at the time.

The reason I take the niacinamide orally is because I also apply it topically (as nicotinamide which seems to work well) and I thought I would see if it demonstrates the same anti-inflammatory effect when ingested.

No problems so far after 2 weeks or so, although lethargy seems to be more prevalent than I've ever experienced before. I don't know how much of that can be blamed by the B3 or any other lifestyle factor. I don't think I'll bother with the folic acid or copper.

[dan52]

The reason I take the niacinamide orally is because I also apply it topically (as nicotinamide which seems to work well) and I thought I would see if it demonstrates the same anti-inflammatory effect when ingested.

Crooked,

Which niacinamide topical do you use? Is it prescription, OTC, or do you make your own? How's it working for you?

Thanks!

[databased]

I'm pretty sure if you trawled through google long enough, you could probably find a success story involving acne and every supplement ever discovered/invented.

No, by "literature" I mean scientific literature. So, for example, this paper claims folic acid implicated in acne. I'll have to wait until I'm at University next to get the full text to track down actual (scientific) source of the claim.

[jiveturkey86]

How many milligrams of niacinamide per day should one take?

[PLONKER]

I'm pretty sure if you trawled through google long enough, you could probably find a success story involving acne and every supplement ever discovered/invented.

No, by "literature" I mean scientific literature. So, for example, this paper claims folic acid implicated in acne. I'll have to wait until I'm at University next to get the full text to track down actual (scientific) source of the claim.

Medical Hypotheses is one of those 'quack' journals which carries no weight whatsoever. It once published a paper claiming that masturbation was a cure for nasal congestion Just be careful of the sources and sample sizes.

Edited by mellow_gold, 12 November 2009 - 02:47 PM.

[databased]

Medical Hypotheses is one of those 'quack' journals which carries no weight whatsoever.

No, it's exactly what it states itself to be and serves an important purpose in the medical literature. I did not cite it as an authoritative source, but as the source of a citation that needs to be tracked down.

Just be careful of the sources and sample sizes.

There are vanishingly few highly powered studies of good quality in the field of acne research (which is why the example of the Trobriand Islanders must figure into any compelling hypothesis about acne). There seems little reason to think that will change in the foreseeable future.

[Crooked I]

The reason I take the niacinamide orally is because I also apply it topically (as nicotinamide which seems to work well) and I thought I would see if it demonstrates the same anti-inflammatory effect when ingested.

Crooked,

Which niacinamide topical do you use? Is it prescription, OTC, or do you make your own? How's it working for you?

Thanks!

I use Nicam gel, which i order from a pharmacy website www.chemistdirect.co.uk or www.directchemist.com

I believe you can also get it via prescirption, which would probably be a better option as it costs £10 to order it online but only £5 on prescription (in Scotland anyway).

It seems to be working quite well - I'm slowly trying to use more and more of it, and at the same time use less and less BP, so as to replace the BP totally.

It absorbs quite well. It leaves your face quite tight and slightly dry but apparently your skin gets used to that and goes back to normal after a few weeks. I normally moisturise afterwards, to take away the tightness and to make sure all the gel is absorbed.

You can also buy it in the form of Freederm, which is the exact same product by the same manufacturer, although that's quite expensive, considering you only get 25g for £8 or so, whereas the Nicam Gel comes in 60g tubes.

[mugenman]

This is indeed very interesting. I'm going to follow databased's instructed regimen for 8 weeks and report my results. Hopefully no debilitating side effects occur like when I tried mega dosing pantothenic acid. Thanks for linking me to this thread databased.

[mugenman]

This is indeed very interesting. I'm going to follow databased's instructed regimen for 8 weeks and report my results. Hopefully no debilitating side effects occur like when I tried mega dosing pantothenic acid. Thanks for linking me to this thread databased.

Just thought I would share my results so far. I've been using this regimen for 19 days now and have seen some real improvement. I still break out, but when I do it's very negligible. I have actually increased the dose after the first week, I'm taking 75 mg of Zinc, 1 gram of Niacinamide, and 1 mg of folic acid. My skin certainly seems less oily, and I'm sure if I didn't start this treatment my pimples would be much more cystic as they were when using pantothenic acid.

Recently I also decided to add my Trophy Skin BlueMD blue light to my regimen due to the significant improvement resulted from the Nicomide and I figured that improvement would accrue with the blue light, but shortly after I started to break out again. I'm more than certain that the blue light attributed to the breakout. Luckily, the pimples are very small, and they seem to dry up quite quickly. I surmise that it's working well and i'll resume this regimen. I'm hoping for dramatic results at that eight week mark.