235 replies to this topic

[alternativista]

Good site on preparing foods in the best ways, including soaking and fermenting:

http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2011/02/...-which-is-best/

Site with online courses in such things including how to make sourdough into just about anything:
http://gnowfglins.com/ecourse/ Some kind of paid membership required.

And yogurt from oats instructions: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=3127724

Edited by alternativista, 22 July 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[alternativista]

So, I don't claim to understand what this means, especially since I can only read the abstract, but it seems to be some evidence that certain lectins affect cell proliferation.

Quote

Binding of erythroagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from Phaseolus vulgaris to the epidermal growth factor receptor inhibits receptor function in the human glioma cell line, U373 MG.

Rebbaa A, Yamamoto H, Moskal JR, Bremer EG.

Source

Chicago Institute of Neurosurgery and Neuroresearch, Illinois, USA.


Abstract

Little is known about the role of the N-linked oligosaccharides in the function of the epidermal growth factor (EGF) receptor (EGF-R). In a human glioma cell line, U373 MG, EGF-Rs contain the bisecting N-linked oligosaccharide sequence recognized by erythroagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from Phaseolus vulgaris (E-PHA). Incubation of E-PHA with cultured U373 MG cells results in inhibition of EGF binding to its receptor and consequently inhibition of EGF-induced autophosphorylation of the receptor. Consistent with the inhibitory effects on the EGF-R, phenotypic events that depend on EGF-R signaling, such as cell spreading and proliferation, were also found to be modified. The effect of this lectin seems to be specific because leukoagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from P. vulgaris (L-PHA), an isolectin of E-PHA, had no effect on EGF-R activity or the biological functions of these cells even though L-PHA was able to bind to the EGF-R. These findings suggest the presence of an important bisecting N-linked oligosaccharide structure in close proximity to the EGF binding site on the receptor. Furthermore, these results suggest the possibility that E-PHA lectin binding may provide an additional approach to blocking EGF-dependent glioma cell growth.

Phaseolus vulgaris is what's known as the common bean. There are varieties eaten worldwide fresh or dry. Green, pinto, kidney, black, lima, navy, etc.

Quote

The toxic compound phytohaemagglutinin, a lectin, is present in many common bean varieties but is especially concentrated in red kidney beans. White kidney beans contain about a third as much toxin as the red variety; broad beans (Vicia faba) contain 5 to 10% as much as red kidney beans.^[2]
Phytohaemagglutinin can be deactivated by boiling beans for ten minutes; the ten minutes at boiling point (100 °C (212 °F)) are sufficient to degrade the toxin, but not to cook the beans. For dry beans the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also recommends an initial soak of at least 5 hours in water, which should then be discarded.^[2]
If the beans are cooked at a temperature below boiling (without a preliminary boil), as in a slow cooker, the toxic effect of haemagglutinin is increased: beans cooked at 80 °C (176 °F) are reported to be up five times as toxic as raw beans.^[2] Outbreaks of poisoning have been associated with cooking kidney beans inslow cookers. ^[2]

Edited by alternativista, 09 January 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[corgisoulpower]

Revisiting threads like these is always so helpful, especially since I usually don't take the time to absorb everything the first time round.

[alternativista]

alternativista, on 09 September 2009 - 03:16 PM, said:

In this study about the possibility of using ZAG enzymes as a marker in testing for prostrate cancer, they mention two things that were comprehensible and of interest. One is that ZAG enzymes tend to increase as we age. Perhaps a factor in 'growing out' of acne?

I just had a thought. I'd only considered the above statement in relation to this lectin theory, but remember, ZAG enzymes breaks down the connections holding skin cells together so that they exfoliate freely. So that's relevant whether or not lectins inhibit ZAG. And whether or not you try to limit your exposure to lectins.

Study about ZAG and shedding of skin cells: http://www.fasebj.or...t/full/14/3/565

Quote

Another enzyme that we have shown to participate in desquamation of normal skin is ZAG (38) . We had previously shown that ZAG expresses enzymatic activity (44) and that it plays a role in stratum corneum cohesion (45) . ZAG also has ribonuclease activity (46) and it participates in the destruction of nuclei in terminally differentiating keratinocytes (47)

Edited by alternativista, 17 November 2011 - 12:07 PM.

[corgisoulpower]

alternativista, on 15 November 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

alternativista, on 09 September 2009 - 03:16 PM, said:

In this study about the possibility of using ZAG enzymes as a marker in testing for prostrate cancer, they mention two things that were comprehensible and of interest. One is that ZAG enzymes tend to increase as we age. Perhaps a factor in 'growing out' of acne?

I just had a thought. I'd only considered the above statement in relation to this lectin theory, but remember, ZAG enzymes breaks down the connections holding skin cells together so that they exfoliate freely. So that's relevant whether or not the lectin thing is. And whether or not you try to limit your exposure to lectins.

Study about ZAG and shedding of skin cells:

http://www.fasebj.or...t/full/14/3/565

QUOTE

Another enzyme that we have shown to participate in desquamation of normal skin is ZAG (38) . We had previously shown that ZAG expresses enzymatic activity (44) and that it plays a role in stratum corneum cohesion (45) . ZAG also has ribonuclease activity (46) and it participates in the destruction of nuclei in terminally differentiating keratinocytes (47)

What's something you can do to help ZAG enzymes do what they're supposed to?

[alternativista]

corgisoulpower, on 16 November 2011 - 12:17 AM, said:

What's something you can do to help ZAG enzymes do what they're supposed to?

I don't know although perhaps there's something in the earlier posts in this thread. I know I went off on a tangent while researching the glyconutrients that bind up lectins so may have missed or forgotten other factors. Looking for ways to improve/boost ZAG would probably be a good thing to do. Zinc is one thing as ZAG stands for zinc-α₂-glycoprotein.

I just noticed that the study I just quoted said ZAG was another enzyme involved in desquammation. That means there are more. There are probably plenty of clues in that psoriasis study :

Quote

Psoriasis is a T cell-mediated inflammatory disease characterized by hyperproliferation and by aberrant differentiation. We found cathepsin D and zinc-α₂-glycoprotein, two catalytic enzymes associated with apoptosis and desquamation, to be present in the stratum corneum of the normal epidermis but absent from the psoriatic plaque. Psoriasis is characterized by an altered response to interferon-γ (IFN-γ), including the induction of apoptosis in normal but not in psoriatic keratinocytes, often with opposite effects on gene expression of suprabasal proteins. We found that IFN-γ binding and signaling were attenuated in psoriasis: The IFN-γ receptor, the signal transducer and activator of transcription STAT-1, and the interferon regulatory factor IRF-1 were strongly up-regulated by IFN-γ in normal keratinocytes, but not in psoriatic ones. IFN-γ strongly up-regulated the expression of the catalytic enzymes cathepsin D and zinc-α₂-glycoprotein in normal keratinocytes but down-regulated them in psoriatic ones; the reverse was true of the apoptotic suppressor bcl-2. We believe that the aberrant response to IFN-γ plays a central role in the pathophysiology of psoriasis, particularly the disruption of apoptosis and desquamation.—Chen, S.-H., Arany, I., Apisarnthanarax, N., Rajaraman, S., Tyring, S. K., Horikoshi, T., Brysk, H., Brysk, M. M. Response of keratinocytes from normal and psoriatic epidermis to interferon-γ differs in the expression of zinc-α₂-glycoprotein and cathepsin D.

http://www.fasebj.or...t/14/3/565.full


So cathepsin D is also something to look into. And just looking at the wikipedia article and skimming through the references cited, there's a lot of mention of estrogens and that estrogen regulates cathepsin D levels. Which could be how estrogen is a factor. Most research into cell proliferation and apoptosis is going to be about cancer and breast cancer is one of the more common research topics.

Edited by alternativista, 29 November 2011 - 10:12 AM.

[alternativista]

FYI, many of these so-called anti-nutrient proteins have antioxident qualities. I saw a study on how the buckwheat prolamine inhibited the oxidation of linoleic acid. They aren't all evil.

Interesting articles:

http://www.silverhyd...toxins-concern/


http://cassiopaea.or...p?topic=19362.0 scroll down to post #4 or go to the pdf http://lnmcp.mf.uni-...h/2001s-629.pdf cites some details on prolamin/lectin content of seeds like quinoa and buckwheat. and that 'Buckwheat prolamin was found to exhibit antioxidative effect in powder model systems and radical scavenging activity.' it inhibits the oxidation of linoleic acid.

And that prolamines are alcohol soluble. Perhaps another soaking medium to look into? The article also states that the prolamin content of buckwheat is less than 5%

Article about measuring the anti-nutrient protein content in seeds HOW TO DETERMINE COELIAC DISEASE ACTIVE PROTEINS IN CELEALS AND PSEUDOCEREALS http://www.foodinnov...va/docu2/49.pdf
States that:

Quote

Proteins of cereals are classified into three fractions depending on their solubility. The first
fraction are albumins and globulins, which are soluble in salt solutions, mainly in NaCl, the
second part – prolamins are proteins soluble in alcohol (ethanol) solutions and the last fraction
are glutenins, which are soluble in alkali solutions, for example in NaOH (Ciccocioppo et al.,
2005). Albumins and globulins are constitutional proteins with enzymatic activity, prolamins
and glutelins are consider to be grain-storage-proteins (Wieser, Koehler, 2008).

See, that's interesting because MesoAmericans soak corn in an alkaline solution when preparing it for use as a grain in tortillas and such. I don't know how widespread that practice is beyond the Mesoamerican, tortilla eating world.

And this was posted a few pages earlier, but worth noting again as I'd forgotten it.

Quote

Dairy may be potentially more harmful in pasteurized, processed milk because of the reduction of SIgA, an immunoglobulin that binds dangerous lectins , Biol Neonate 1991;59(3):121-5 Davin JC et al The high lectin-binding capacity of human secretory IgA protects nonspecifically mucosae against environmental antigens.),

http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

So not only does grain fed dairy have more lectins, it has less of what binds them up and protects us from them.


Article on various antinutrients in plant proteins. It's actually about animal feed, but still somewhat useful:
http://www.pjbs.org/...ine/fin1709.pdf

Edited by alternativista, 02 January 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[Joner]

hi, im new to this topic and alot of this is flyinng over my head, words like "Albumins and globulins are constitutional proteins with enzymatic activity" but has anyone yet mentioned colostrum on this post? because if you look up zag enzyme and colostrum it appears that colostrum contains it

http://www.scielo.br...bt/v54n4/16.pdf

and i have read one person's post about their son using colostrum and it all seems to coincide. your body produces more zag enzymes as you grow older, and thus people growing out of acne. also many people seem to be supplementing with zinc and that seems very helpful yet there isn't an exact reason why it helps, maybe colostrum could be a possible acne treatment but now with better understanding? yay or nay? back me up with info and think i might try it out

[corgisoulpower]

Joner, on 28 November 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

hi, im new to this topic and alot of this is flyinng over my head, words like "Albumins and globulins are constitutional proteins with enzymatic activity" but has anyone yet mentioned colostrum on this post? because if you look up zag enzyme and colostrum it appears that colostrum contains it

http://www.scielo.br...bt/v54n4/16.pdf

and i have read one person's post about their son using colostrum and it all seems to coincide. your body produces more zag enzymes as you grow older, and thus people growing out of acne. also many people seem to be supplementing with zinc and that seems very helpful yet there isn't an exact reason why it helps, maybe colostrum could be a possible acne treatment but now with better understanding? yay or nay? back me up with info and think i might try it out

I'd love to start taking colostrum, it's definitely been "yayed" on this forum before.

[FSAS]

corgisoulpower, on 28 November 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Joner, on 28 November 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

hi, im new to this topic and alot of this is flyinng over my head, words like "Albumins and globulins are constitutional proteins with enzymatic activity" but has anyone yet mentioned colostrum on this post? because if you look up zag enzyme and colostrum it appears that colostrum contains it

http://www.scielo.br...bt/v54n4/16.pdf

and i have read one person's post about their son using colostrum and it all seems to coincide. your body produces more zag enzymes as you grow older, and thus people growing out of acne. also many people seem to be supplementing with zinc and that seems very helpful yet there isn't an exact reason why it helps, maybe colostrum could be a possible acne treatment but now with better understanding? yay or nay? back me up with info and think i might try it out

I'd love to start taking colostrum, it's definitely been "yayed" on this forum before.

was wondering if there might be specific posts that have some info on colostrum ? I'm kinda curious

[Joner]

well there was one from a mom talking about her son who had severe acne, and then he started to take omega 3 and colostrum together and at first he had an initial breakout but after a month or so i dont remember how long, he cleared up 100%, virtually no acne existent, completely gone and erradicated, she had theories as to why it helped, leaky guy and other stuff, but i think unfortunately the post got deleted because i can't seem to find it, that one was extremely helpful.

ive read articles about colostrum and alot of colostrum out there online is not actually colostrum
this one is supposedly good

http://www.surthriva.../colostrum.html

i think the mother in the post used the symbiotic colostrum and said all the others didn't work

but my questions are mainly for alternativista and others who are knowledgable on this topic of zag enzyme because it seems that this is could be a breakthrough. just researching zag its hard to find alot of info which goes to show that its a very new concept that hasn't been touched on alot, and i am happy to be a guinea pig

okay, this video isn't directly referring to colostrum's relation to acne, but i think it is worth a viewing, gotta warn you, it is very long but quiet intriguing



you can find part 2 and 3 on the side bar

[Joner]

sorry i just found the post, it wasn't deleted

http://www.acne.org/...-best-actually/

[alternativista]

Joner, on 28 November 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

sorry i just found the post, it wasn't deleted

http://www.acne.org/...-best-actually/

Yeah, colostrum was big here for a while, but it was mostly about healing the digestive tract. I think that colostrum containing ZAG is new, at least, I don't recall it, but I forget a lot, that's why I write it down here. It probably is new because this thread went off in the direction of binding up/removing lectins from seeds with preparation methods and food combos.

Quote

Zinc α2-Glycoprotein: A Multidisciplinary Protein


Abstract

Zinc α2-glycoprotein (ZAG) is a protein of interest because of its ability to play many important functions in the human body, including fertilization and lipid mobilization. After the discovery of this molecule, during the last 5 decades, various studies have been documented on its structure and functions, but still, it is considered as a protein with an unknown function. Its expression is regulated by glucocorticoids. Due to its high sequence homology with lipid-mobilizing factor and high expression in cancer cachexia, it is considered as a novel adipokine. On the other hand, structural organization and fold is similar to MHC class I antigen-presenting molecule; hence, ZAG may have a role in the expression of the immune response. The function of ZAG under physiologic and cancerous conditions remains mysterious but is considered as a tumor biomarker for various carcinomas. There are several unrelated functions that are attributed to ZAG, such as RNase activity, regulation of melanin production, hindering tumor proliferation, and transport of nephritic by-products. This article deals with the discussion of the major aspects of ZAG from its gene structure to function and metabolism. (Mol Cancer Res 2008;6(6):892–906) http://mcr.aacrjourn.../6/892.abstract

Most of the research on ZAG, like with lectins, is about cancer and thus difficult to understand. But I thought the glucocorticoids that they think regulate it might be something to look into. Also the mention that it is thought to affect fertilization might mean it's a factor in PCOS.[/font][/color]

There's also this study that says ZAG plays a role in preventing type 2 Diabetes. See how inter-related everything is. Perhaps research in to that might include how to boost ZAG. http://endo.endojour...151/3/948.short

Edited by alternativista, 29 December 2011 - 11:25 AM.

[Joner]

another thing to consider is that alot of people have been posting about stopping masturbation has helped them alot with acne and I read somewhere that semen contains the zag enzyme. Maybe that is a possible correlation, that every time you ejaculate, you lose a certain amount of zag enzyme. Others who take it to the extreme are actually tried putting semen on their face:

http://www.acne.org/...rm-fights-acne/

seems quite odd but maybe there is a reason behind it because of the zinc-alpha-2-glycoprotein that is in it. Others have also put colostrum on their faces and that has helped their breakouts significantly.

Although alot of this thread has been about reducing lectin intake and absorption, is the possibility of increasing your zag enzyme consumption/production a better treatment?
Thoughts?

[alternativista]

Joner, on 29 November 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

Although alot of this thread has been about reducing lectin intake and absorption, is the possibility of increasing your zag enzyme consumption/production a better treatment?
Thoughts?

Or rather, an additional treatment or goal. Look into it. I know I've googled things like 'boosting ZAG' and not had any luck. Like I said before, most research into ZAG is about cancer, although that study on it preventing type II diabetes is hopeful. Hopefully some helpful info will come out of research into that.

Good Luck.

[Joner]

well shucks, i'm not a scientist and it seems like there is virtually no research out there based on the correlation between zag and acne or better yet just increasing zag in the body, i'll be back with more info if i find anything. but i am very hopeful, this could be the missing link into acne.

[alternativista]

^Well, also look into glucocorticoids, which apparently regulate ZAG, and cathepsin D, another enzyme involved in desquammation and regulated by estrogen. Perhaps the reason estrogen dominance and/or fluctuating estrogen causes monthly breakouts for some.

And from Cordain's book

Quote

During normal desquamation, 2 enzymes derived from underlying keratinocytes

and from corneocyte structures, called lamellar bodies, dissolve desmosomes.

First, carbohydrate dissolving enzymes, called glycosidases, and then protein
dissolving enzymes, called proteases, must be applied, (in that order). If one of these enzymes gets impaired then the corneocyte desmosomes will not disintegrate properly, and the corneocytes will stick together and block the follicle.

Quote

The lectins (WGA, PNA and SBA) get into keratinocytes and corneocyte lamellar bodies and bind one of the glycosidase enzymes, known as ZAG

and

Quote

ZAG is a multi purpose enzyme. It not only helps to dissolve the proteins that are found in corneocyte desmosomes, but it also slows keratinocyte proliferation

More in this post: http://www.acne.org/...ost__p__3100243

Edited by alternativista, 29 December 2011 - 11:52 AM.

[nick_vw]

this is lots to sort out. Let me get it in order. ZAG involved in skid shedding/lipid metabolism, seems implicated in acne. ZAG inhibited by lechtins, worst offenders being wheat, soy, peanut. What about oatmeal? does that fall in to the wheat category?

I feel low GI helps but its really easy to fall off the wagon. It seems ridiculous the amount of pore clogging on my face back these days, but i really (really) dont have any inflamed acne.

[alternativista]

nick_vw, on 29 December 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

this is lots to sort out. Let me get it in order. ZAG involved in skid shedding/lipid metabolism, seems implicated in acne. ZAG inhibited by lechtins, worst offenders being wheat, soy, peanut. What about oatmeal? does that fall in to the wheat category?

I feel low GI helps but its really easy to fall off the wagon. It seems ridiculous the amount of pore clogging on my face back these days, but i really (really) dont have any inflamed acne.

No, few people are intolerant to oats provided their digestive tract isn't extremely damaged. If so, you probably need to avoid all grains if not all seeds and products from grain fed animals, at least until it heals. And you might not notice any improvement until you do so.

And we only have Cordain's word that lectins inhibit ZAG. And while he demonizes all grains and legumes and nearly all seeds, he only specifically names the gluten, soy and peanut lectins as having that ability. And as far as I know only those 3 plus kidney bean lectin harms cause additional harm by permeating the intestines linings.

[alternativista]

Barley, rye and rice all contain chitin-binding lectins similar to wheat lectin (WGA).- GreenMedInfo

Gluten isn't the only thing that binds to the very substance that makes up our digestive tract linings!!!!

http://www.greenmedi...heat-lectin-wga

Quote

Antigenically similar chitin-binding lectins are present in the embryos of wheat, barley, and rye, members of the Triticeae tribe of the grass family (Gramineae). However, the lectins display different localization patterns in these embryos. Lectin is absent from the coleoptile of barley but is present in the outer surface cells of this organ in wheat and in both inner and outer surface cells of rye coleoptiles. All three cereals contain lectin at the periphery of embryonic roots. Similar lectins were not detected in oats and pearl millet, members of other tribes of the Gramineae. Rice, a species only distantty related to wheat, contains a lectin that is antigenically similar to the other cereal lectins and located at the periphery of embryonic roots and throughut the coleoptile.

Wheat germ Aglutin (WGA), for those that didn't read the first few pages of the thread, bind to glyconutrients found in chitin which is in the shells of invertabrates and fungi, i.e. yeast. So apparently these other grains have also been found to have some similar lectin.

Here is an article specifically on the badness of various chitin-binding lectins and mentions potatoes and tomatoes. And rice. Potatoes and rice are two of the most common ingredients in 'gluten free' foods.

Quote

chitins" are long polymers of n-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG) All animals, including worms, fish, birds and humans, use N-Acetyglucosamine as a foundational substance for building the various tissues in their bodies, including the bones. The production of cartilage, tendons, and joints depend on the structural integrity of N-Acetylglucosamine. The mucous known as the glycocalyx, or literally, “sugar coat” is secreted in humans by the epithelial cells which line all the mucous membranes, from nasal cavities to the top to the bottom of the alimentary tube, as well as the protective and slippery lining of our blood vessels. The glycocalyx is composed largely of N-Acetylglucosamine and N-Acetylneuraminic acid (also known as sialic acid), with carbohydrate end of N-Acetylneuraminic acid of this protective glycoprotein forming the terminal sugar that is exposed to the contents of both the gut and the arterial lumen (opening). WGA's unique binding specificity to these exact two glycoproteins is not accidental. Nature has designed WGA perfectly to attach to, disrupt, and gain entry through these mucosal surfaces.

http://www.greenmedi...binding-lectins

Our intestinal linings are made of the NAG that these lectins bind to!!!
That's a detail I'd never seen brought up before, in all that research. All those Paleo blog articles, studies, etc. Kind of important.

It's curious that they don't mention soy, peanut, and kidney bean lectin which other studies have found to permeate the digestive tract.

Edited by alternativista, 24 February 2012 - 10:02 AM.