235 replies to this topic

[alternativista]

Edit: This thread was primarily about the ZAG enzyme but it's full of info on lectins, digestive tract health and which lectins harm it, cooking methods that reduce lectins and food/nutrient combinations that reduce damage. Not to mention info about the enzymes and other factors involved in normal exfoliation of skin cells that doesn't clog pores.
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Something I'm looking into:

ZAG enzyme (zinc-alpha-2-glycoprotein) which per Cordain:

Quote

There is an enzyme called ZAG that normally dissolves the proteins holding together skin cells lining the pore, so that they can flake away and not block the pore. But there is exciting new evidence showing that components of certain foods enter the bloodstream and inhibit ZAG, thus causing the skin cells lining the pore to stick together and thereby block the pore.

I had a link the a pdf of the book, but I guess they figured out their mistake. If you google T'he dietary cure for Acne pdf', you'll find places you can download it. And there's a link to a study showing the relationship between ZAG and exfoliating skin cells in one of the posts below.

Also, definition found elsewhere: an enzymatic protein found in body fluids including sweat.

Quote

The main role of zincalpha2glyco-protein is breaking down lipids accumulation so it doesn't only work in the body to prevent the pore blockage but might used by the body to burn visceral fats while sparing muscles or lowering tryglicerides levels in diabetic subjects

Ok, so he says those 'certain foods' that inhibit ZAG are lectins, anti-nutrient proteins found in all kinds of seeds. Cordain of course considers all legumes and grains to be inedible evils, but especially wheat, peanuts and soy. But I haven't found anything but Cordain's word that ZAG is inhibited by lectins.

And elsewhere, he says:

Quote

Common dietary lectins from whole wheat (WGA), peanuts (PNA) and soybeans (SBA) impair the action of one of the glycosidase enzymes, known as zinc alpha (2) glycoprotein or ZAG.
This enzyme normally acts to dissolve three of the remaining proteins in
corneocyte desmosomes: Dsg1, Dsc1 and corneodesmosin. However, when
you eat lots of whole wheat, peanuts, soy based food products and other
legumes, their respective lectins (WGA, PNA and SBA) get into keratinocytes
and corneocyte lamellar bodies and bind zinc alpha (2) glycoprotein and prevent
it from getting its job done.

Again naming only the lectins from those three seeds.


However, this article, not by Cordain, names wheat, peanuts, kidney beans and soy beans as most problematic, while others like broad beans (lima) not so much. And that soaking and sprouting destroy all to most lectins. And:

Quote

In wheat, gliadin, a component of gluten and an iso-lectin of wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), is capable of activating NF kappa beta proteins which, when up-regulated, are involved in almost every acute and chronic inflammatory disorder including neurodegenerative disease, inflammatory bowel disease, infectious and autoimmune diseases.1 WGA needs more recognition as an important dietary problem. Scientific literature shows that dietary lectins can dramatically reduce natural killer (NK) cell activity directly and through disruption of intestinal flora. Natural killer cells are one of the body’s most important defenses against viruses and other invaders.

and

Quote

In many people, lectins found in lentils, green peas, corn, potatoes but especially wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), are known to bind to the insulin receptor giving the fat cell the same message that insulin gives, namely to make fat. The lectin, however, due to a lack of feedback inhibition, remains indefinitely attached to the receptor giving the cell a constant message to make fat.20-25 This perhaps explains why many weight loss programs that include a moderate-to-high amount of carbohydrate (especially modern grain) fail....One other point with regard to lectin contribution to weight gain is the fact that WGA has been shown to block digestive hormones. WGA can bind to the receptor for cholecystokinin (CCK), a hormone involved in appetite control, suppressing its function.26-27 This essentially leads to an increase in appetite and impairment in the release of digestive enzymes.

Note: There are many kinds of lima beans, btw, and if you soak properly and cook with garlic, onions and a little salt, taste absolutely nothing like those awful things they fed us in school. Onions are high in methionine/cysteine which are the aminos legumes are limited in, btw. I've been buying giant Peruvian lima beans and they are delicious. Throw in some greens such as spinach or collards at the end of cooking. They are also high in methionine to complete the protein

I glanced through Sally Fallon's book to see what the Weston Price people had to say about lectins since they are all about soaking grains, nuts, legumes or any other seed, but they seem to just be about the phytates. And if you search the Westonprice.org site for lectins, all that comes up is their anti-vegetarian and anti-soy rants. But if you want info on soaking legumes, grains and other seeds, westonprice.org and/or Fallon's book are good sources.

I also saw some reference to digestive enzymes that break down proteins being helpful breaking down lectins. Like proteases. I'm looking into which proteases, but searches on lectins turn up so much research about cancers that I don't care to read through.

Note be sure to check out page 4-5 or so for lists of food sources for glyconutrients that bind up lectins. And for as many traditional dishes we could think of that consist of combinations of the high lectin-containing food and the glyconutrient containing food.

And see also this link for more information about Hyperkeratinization and Hyperproliferation of skin cells: http://www.acne.org/...p...t&p=2580171

Edited by alternativista, 26 February 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Mr. Crab]

Sounds like an amazing find! Now we need to find exactly which foods inhibit it the most.

[alternativista]

In this study about the possibility of using ZAG enzymes as a marker in testing for prostrate cancer, they mention two things that were comprehensible and of interest. One is that ZAG enzymes tend to increase as we age. Perhaps a factor in 'growing out' of acne?

And the other is that ZAG may be induced by androgens, which would seem contradictory in preventing acne if what Cordain says about ZAG dissolving the proteins that hold skin cells together. If it's induced by androgens, then many of us should have plenty of it.

Then again, I myself don't have excess androgens going on, so perhaps this is a factor for me, but maybe not for teen boys.

---------------
A new-to-me term came up in all this. Exocrine. Exocrine glands are glands that secrete their products (hormones) into ducts (duct glands). They are the counterparts to endocrine glands, which secrete their products (hormones) directly into the bloodstream (ductless glands). Typical exocrine glands include sweat glands, salivary glands, sebaceous glands, mammary glands, stomach, liver, pancreas.

If you search for ZAG, you do find a lot about prostrate, breast and some other cancers. But so far not about acne or similar skin condition.

Edited by alternativista, 06 February 2010 - 03:08 PM.

[alternativista]

About lectins:

http://www.clearskin.net/acne/modules.php?...req=viewarticle Claims:

Lectins are sugar-binding proteins that mimic insulin. They bind to carbohydrates, and to various proteins. This binding action causes your body to attack itself, which in turn creates inflammation. This inflammation leads to more acne, among many other physiological problems.

http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html, whoever Krispin is, claims:

These lectins bind to sugar moieties in cell walls or membranes and thereby change the physiology of the membrane to cause agglutination, mitosis, or other biochemical changes in the cell. (agglutination- clumping; mitosis-multiplication or division of a cell forming two daughter cells)

&

All life forms, plant and animal, insect and fungus have cell membranes that contain carbohydrates that sit within and project from the membrane. If a lectin with the right key comes in contact with one of these 'locks' on the gut wall or artery or gland or organ it 'opens the lock', that is disrupts the membrane and damages the cell and may initiate a cascade of immune and autoimmune events leading to cell death.

Lectins can be inactivated by specific carbohydrates (technically known as mono and oligosaccarides) which can bind the 'key' and prevent the protein from attaching to the carbohydrate 'lock' within the cell membrane. Glucosamine is specific for wheat lectin and it is this specificity that may protect the gut and cartilage from cell inflammation and destruction in wheat (or gluten) responsive arthritis.

& that

Lectins are found in ALL foods, certain foods more than others, and the same food may contain varying amounts of lectins depending on processing, when and where the plant was grown, and species.

and that some sources are more 'toxic' than others. Nightshades are listed in with the various seed sources without saying what you can do about them. You don't usually soak or sprout nightshades. & finally, it notes that gluten-free and anti-candida diets avoid many sources of lectins and that might be what's really helping. Also notice that the 'toxic' lectin sources are also common allergens.

Krispin also has pages on some other interesting things like the importance of Magnesium and vitamin D you might like to check out.

And for those that don't know by now, nuts, grains, and legumes (aka pulses) are all seeds.

Edited by alternativista, 20 June 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[alternativista]

Ah, here's a study about ZAG and shedding of skin cells:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/565

Another enzyme that we have shown to participate in desquamation of normal skin is ZAG (38) . We had previously shown that ZAG expresses enzymatic activity (44) and that it plays a role in stratum corneum cohesion (45) . ZAG also has ribonuclease activity (46) and it participates in the destruction of nuclei in terminally differentiating keratinocytes (47)

desquamation = shedding of skin cells. keratinocyte = most common type of skin cell.


Also has a role in melanin production and skin cancer:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v119/n2/full/5601575a.html

[Drizzler]

Very interesting stuff. Though now I am more confused than ever with beans/legumes... some say they are the healthiest foods in the world, some say they are basically poisonous!

[alternativista]

Very interesting stuff. Though now I am more confused than ever with beans/legumes... some say they are the healthiest foods in the world, some say they are basically poisonous!

And some say they are the healthiest foods when properly prepared according to centuries old traditions.

Some references on soaking and sprouting seeds and nuts (with conflicting instructions):
http://www.wellnesstips.ca/grain%20preparation.htm
http://www.raw-food-living.com/soaking-nuts.html
http://foodthatnourishes.blogspot.com/2007...otein-with.html
http://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/2009/0...nuts-and-seeds/
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/0...aking-nuts.html
Most of those are citing Sally Fallon. And they say to add salt to break down enzyme inhibitors. But I wonder what that does to the nuts ability to sprout.

http://kardenaskitchen.com/2009/09/nuts-and-seeds/
http://www.veggiewave.com/soaking_chart
http://www.raw-food-living.com/soaking-nuts.html I like this one. It better explains soaking vs sprouting process. Which is basically soak first. Then follow sprouting instructions.
http://www.astrologyclub.org/PowerFood/Pow...ndSprouting.htm
http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sprouting.html

Preparing legumes and grains:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008...ns-part-ii.html

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/0...g-grains-2.html
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/1...g-grains-2.html

Edited by alternativista, 02 February 2010 - 09:01 PM.

[alternativista]

I was just re-reading and noticed that I've posted some stuff that may be of interest to those that feel they need to avoid gluten. Candida diet followers as well. See post #4. I've just gone back in and bolded the points of interest.

Also, according to the cooking show I was watching. Grains like wheat don't actually contain gluten. They contain a couple of proteins that bind together with water to make gluten. And I do know that the yeast bread making process is designed to maximize gluten formation and you must use a gluten flour. When making cakes, gluten is undesirable and cake flour is low gluten. So maybe you don't really need to avoid all grains or even all sources of wheat, just the ones that are produced in a way that they form a lot of gluten.

Edited by alternativista, 21 September 2009 - 04:05 PM.

[tigermike]

awesome stuff alternativista! (as always)

I follow alot of what Cordain teaches, except for his stance against saturated fats.
Other than that he really knows his stuff!

[alternativista]

^Well, most of this info isn't coming from Cordain. Cordain is only where I got the connection between the ZAG enzyme and acne and lectins. And I do appreciate that. But the problem with lectins is apparently alleviated when foods like the legumes and grains he considers inedible are prepared properly according to ancient traditions.

I don't agree with a lot of what Cordain says. He is not an anthropologist and I think he just picked whatever diets he liked and ignored many others. It's a big planet and humans spread in all directions to all kinds of climates and adapted just fine to many different diets.

Much like with the Weston Price people. I appreciate their recommendation of whole foods prepared in traditional methods, but that's about it. They are complete nut jobs on a number of subjects.

Edited by alternativista, 05 November 2009 - 04:12 PM.

[Drizzler]

I posted this on here months ago... an amazing article on properly preparing grains:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html


-"But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact, it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation."

-"Our ancestors, and virtually all pre-industrialized peoples, soaked or fermented their grains before making them into porridge, breads, cakes and casseroles. A quick review of grain recipes from around the world will prove our point: In India, rice and lentils are fermented for at least two days before they are prepared as idli and dosas; in Africa the natives soak coarsely ground corn overnight before adding it to soups and stews and they ferment corn or millet for several days to produce a sour porridge called ogi; a similar dish made from oats was traditional among the Welsh; in some Oriental and Latin American countries rice receives a long fermentation before it is prepared; Ethiopians make their distinctive injera bread by fermenting a grain called teff for several days; Mexican corn cakes, called pozol, are fermented for several days and for as long as two weeks in banana leaves; before the introduction of commercial brewers yeast, Europeans made slow-rise breads from fermented starters; in America the pioneers were famous for their sourdough breads, pancakes and biscuits; and throughout Europe grains were soaked overnight, and for as long as several days, in water or soured milk before they were cooked and served as porridge or gruel.

As you said, they don't mention lectins... But the same idea


This is probably also why Dr. Mercola's no-grain diet clears acne (or so he says).

Edited by Drizzler, 16 September 2009 - 07:44 AM.

[tigermike]

^Well, most of this info isn't coming from Cordain. Cordain is only where I got the connection between the ZAG enzyme and acne and lectins. And I do appreciate that. But the problem with lectins is apparently alleviated when foods like the legumes and grains he considers inedible are prepared properly according to ancient traditions.

I don't agree with a lot of what Cordain says. He is not an anthropologist and I think he just picked whatever diets he liked and ignored many others. It's a big planet and humans spread in all directions to all kinds of climates and adapted just fine to many different diets.

Much like with the Weston Price people. I appreciate their recommendation of whole foods prepared in traditional methods, but that's about it.

Well I think Cordain is just trying to guide people toward a less inflammatory, nutrient dense "diet".
Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

Does soaking grains/legumes eliminate the lectin problem? I thought that was just to counteract the phytates? I could be wrong there.

[alternativista]

Well I think Cordain is just trying to guide people toward a less inflammatory, nutrient dense "diet".
Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

Does soaking grains/legumes eliminate the lectin problem? I thought that was just to counteract the phytates? I could be wrong there.

Yes, according to the article I linked to in my first post. And somehow, despite what Cordain says, the communities all over the world with high numbers of very healthy centenarians tend to eat plant based diets with a great deal of legumes and grains.

Also, this was about all seeds. Not just legumes and grains. Besides, lectins are in all foods, not just seeds.

Edited by alternativista, 17 September 2009 - 01:22 PM.

[databased]

Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

glycemic load of

ripe banana 13
raisins 28
dried dates 42

wheat bread 9
barley bread 7
Coke 15

[Packerfan785]

Grains are also a really good source of calories.

[uncle buck]

Would coconut be problematic to this? After all it is the worlds largest seed.

[alternativista]

Some threads with interesting related info:

Food allergies, lectins and N-acetyl glucosamine, a possible supplement to reduce intolerance http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Food-alle...&hl=lectins

Gluten Sensitivity, Signs, Infertility, ADHD, Diabetes, Autism etc. http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Gluten-Se...&hl=lectins

Bloodtype and development of disease http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...st&p=278649

IGF and lectins in dairy (grain fed animals) http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Question-...&hl=lectins

[tigermike]

Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

glycemic load of

ripe banana 13
raisins 28
dried dates 42

wheat bread 9
barley bread 7
Coke 15

LOL...i love how you picked out the dried fruit for your argument. Yeah, dried fruit is gonna have high GL. and bananas are one of the higher GI fruits. good job for figuring that out.
Why don't you do a more thorough comparison?
The first number after the food is CALORIES the second number is GYLCEMIC LOAD
FRUITS
Apple, average 120 6
Banana, ripe 120 13
Dates, dried 60 42
Grapefruit 120 3
Grapes, average 120 8
Orange, average 120 5
Peach, average 120 5
Peach, canned in light syrup 120 9
Pear, average 120 4
Pear, canned in pear juice 120 5
Prunes, pitted 60 10
Raisins 60 28
Watermelon 120 4
BAKERY PRODUCTS AND BREADS
Banana cake, made with sugar 80 18
Banana cake, made without sugar 80 16
Sponge cake, plain 63 17
Vanilla cake made from packet mix with vanilla frosting (Betty Crocker) 111 24
Apple pie, made with sugar 60 13
Apple pie, made without sugar 60 9
Waffles, Aunt Jemima (Quaker Oats) 35 10
Bagel, white, frozen 70 25
Baguette, white, plain 30 15
Coarse barley bread, 75%-80% kernels, average 30 7
Hamburger bun 30 9
Kaiser roll 30 12
Pumpernickel bread 30 6
50% cracked wheat kernel bread 30 12
White wheat flour bread 30 10
Wonder™ bread, average 30 10
Whole-wheat bread, average 30 9
100% Whole Grain™ bread (Natural Ovens) 30 7
Pita bread, white 30 10
Corn tortilla 50 12
Wheat tortilla 50 8

SO THE AVERAGES ARE
FRUIT: CALORIES 106.15 GL 10.9
GRAINS: CALORIES 47.09 GL 12.33

So....on AVERAGE according to YOUR supplied list...fruit has a LOWER glycemic load and HIGHER calories.
What do we know about the nutritional density of grains compared to fruit?
Well for the most part Fruit is MORE nutritionally dense than grains.
So...
1) Fruit has higher calories and higher nutrient value than grains. To get more nutrient and caloric value from grains you would have to EAT MORE of them.
2) Fruit ON AVERAGE has a lower glycemic load than grains.
3) So you could eat fruit, get more nutrition, be satiated faster, and have less blood sugar problems than eating grains.
4) unfortunately this list didn't include fiber, but i'd be willing to bet fruit has grains beat in the fiber department too.
5) Veggies would probably put up equally impressive stats.

@databased: please use all the data if you're gonna use data to argue.
@packerfan: obviously grains are not the best source of calories when taking nutrient density and glycemic load into account.

[Drizzler]

Also note that the above listings for the grain products don't take into account people rarely eat just the serving size amount...

[databased]

LOL...i love how you picked out the dried fruit for your argument. Yeah, dried fruit is gonna have high GL. and bananas are one of the higher GI fruits. good job for figuring that out.
Why don't you do a more thorough comparison?

Because people don't eat laundry lists of foods. The point was precisely that people eat specific foods, not "grains". Thus, if you look at people on this forum who claim they are eating "healthy" and still have acne, they often have chosen a high-fructose, high glycemic load diet (which they inexplicably decide to make produce even higher insulin responses by running through a blender).

You can stare at the list of low-glycemic load fruits all you want, but if you in fact eat apples, bananas, pears, and mangoes, you're just going for maximum sugar and fooling yourself into thinking it's healthy.

Also note that the above listings for the grain products don't take into account people rarely eat just the serving size amount...

Which is... an identical issue for fruit -- especially when people get out the blender to amplify both portions and glycemic load. There are folks doing "apple fasts" and imagining it is healthy to eat such massive amounts of sugar because apples are "natural". We are highly trained sugar seekers (some believe that was the evolutionary advantage of the retinal cones that let us distinguish colors). Put that laundry list of fruits out on a table and people will instinctively eat the high glycemic load selections first -- and then claim it was "healthy".