41 replies to this topic

[TonyZ]

So you are telling me, a person who has ate a relatively healthy diet and been active my entire life, that I have acne because of a toxic liver? I don't have very much oil on my skin at all by the way. Yet my friends who barely get any acne at all do drugs, alcohol, eat McDonalds and candy all day long? They sit and watch TV and play games all day, and they are constantly sick. It is disgusting because I know they are constipated as it takes 10-20 minutes while I wait for them to go to the bathroom. Do you have any real evidence the body uses the sebaceous glands to remove toxins?

Acne is caused by oil and dead skin. Where people try to insert toxins, I don't know, but it's non related.

Blood and lymph toxins are extremely related to acne problems; I am appalled by the ignorance in this post! A simple Google search for "toxins and acne" will pull up nearly half a million results on liver health. Do us all a favor by looking up some facts before denouncing a well-thought out, researched post as bogus.

I can also google proactive and get even more results about how it helped people clear there skin. You can find people who claimed urine or seamen cleared their skin. You can find almost anything linked to acne. Bacteria+Dead Skin+Sebum equals acne. Everyone agrees on that. You do not need toxins in this equation and I don't even know how you could put them in there.

Show me these facts please.

Lol. great post. The day google becomes a reliable source is the day hell freezes.

[Zmffy]

Proactive is a treatment. It helps make pimples go away. What I'm trying to do is tell everyone the way I CURED my acne.

By the way I still touch my face constantly, don't exfoliate, didn't use benzyol peroxide and I use that weak cetaphil cleanser, but my acne is gone. "You do not need toxins in this equation" is an amazingly ignorant statement, because unless you're eating 100% organic fruits and vegetables and only that, you have toxins in your body. Unless you know that your liver is in peak condition, you have no evidence that toxins in your body aren't the cause of your acne.

Sounds like someone doesn't want to give up their junk food or take any herbs and supplements. So many people are in denial.

[bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ]

Well for one Zmffy, you're abusing the word cure. You have no proof you cured anything, such as analyzing your liver by any quantitative means and comparing it to your current liver status now. You also never provide a visual proof of your skin. "Clear" is a subjective term, and many acne suffers can deem themselves clear to the eye from a distance away to a mirror, opposed to 100% acne free skin.

"I changed my diet, cut out a lot of sugar, fat (especially omega 6 fatty acids like the ones found in vegetable oil), drugs, alcohol, caffeine etc"

Changing your diet was probably the best thing you did, and it could have nothing to do with the liver, rather the whole IGF-1 and insulin aspect.

" I got less acne but my liver was still shot from the junk and the drugs."

You still do not know your liver was still affected by those things. Jumping to conclusions is why your argument is partially flawed, but the liver health is definitely an important factor.

[Zmffy]

The thing that has made it so that I haven't got any pimples in the last 2 weeks was a herbal supplement containing milk thistle, dandelion root, and burdock. Do some research on those herbs, come back and tell me what they're good for (hint, liver cleansing). "Proof" doesn't exist. I merely have tons and tons of empirical evidence backed up by logical deduction. You may be your own judge. You may try it yourself too. Or not.

[bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ]

The thing that has made it so that I haven't got any pimples in the last 2 weeks was a herbal supplement containing milk thistle, dandelion root, and burdock. Do some research on those herbs, come back and tell me what they're good for (hint, liver cleansing). "Proof" doesn't exist. I merely have tons and tons of empirical evidence backed up by logical deduction. You may be your own judge. You may try it yourself too. Or not.

Perhaps, but you're making outrageous anecdotal claims such as "Then I came to learn that ACNE IS THE REDUCED FUNCTION OF THE LIVER" that you try to portray as absolute truth. Are there not people who did the same things you did, but rather had a perfect complexion instead? Yes it happens, and alcoholics who have a failing liver may not show signs of acne.

Acne is the result of dead skin cells/p. acnes/sebum.

[Translocator]

The thing that has made it so that I haven't got any pimples in the last 2 weeks was a herbal supplement containing milk thistle, dandelion root, and burdock. Do some research on those herbs, come back and tell me what they're good for (hint, liver cleansing). "Proof" doesn't exist. I merely have tons and tons of empirical evidence backed up by logical deduction. You may be your own judge. You may try it yourself too. Or not.

Perhaps, but you're making outrageous anecdotal claims such as "Then I came to learn that ACNE IS THE REDUCED FUNCTION OF THE LIVER" that you try to portray as absolute truth. Are there not people who did the same things you did, but rather had a perfect complexion instead? Yes it happens, and alcoholics who have a failing liver may not show signs of acne.

Acne is the result of dead skin cells/p. acnes/sebum.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Also, everything Zmffy has suggested is great for clearing acne, regardless of any perceived flaws in his conclusions by blessthefall (for those of you who are wondering. ... ?)

[Zmffy]

It is the reduced function of the liver. If our livers were working at their optimal capacity we wouldn't get acne. Things such as hormones, stress, and vitamin deficiency are what hinders the liver's ability to purge toxins . Oily skin is excess sebum, and the more active our sebaceous glands, the more our livers can purge through our skin, through the acne. Dead skin and bacteria are merely what worsen acne inflammation. However I believe the root cause to be excess toxins in a hindered liver. We exercise, we eat right, we take all sorts of supplements and it appears to help rid acne because we are reducing the water-soluble toxins going into our livers and enabling them to work better. However the best way to completely end acne is to get milk thistle (and other) herbal extracts to clean out the fat-soluble toxins in our livers directly.

[strato]

I'm really digging this. I am often tired, the bottom of my eyes itch, I sweat so much that it's not normal!, and I've got acne...

Are those the symptom of kidney or liver problems?

[bɭesstheʄẚɭɭ]

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Also, everything Zmffy has suggested is great for clearing acne, regardless of any perceived flaws in his conclusions by blessthefall (for those of you who are wondering. ... ?)

Hypocrisy? There is so much evidence to point that the main causes of acne are those three things overall. That is NOT to say that other things play an influence, but:

" If our livers were working at their optimal capacity we wouldn't get acne."

is claiming that everyone's liver is to blame. What about Celiacs whose gluten problems contribute their acne? If Celiac disease is the root cause, then a worsening liver isn't the cause but a side-effect. The thing I am trying to get at is anecdotal evidence does not make it true. But if targeting your liver helps, then by all means other people may want to try it. I am even going to try it here soon.

[Translocator]

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Also, everything Zmffy has suggested is great for clearing acne, regardless of any perceived flaws in his conclusions by blessthefall (for those of you who are wondering. ... ?)

Hypocrisy? There is so much evidence to point that the main causes of acne are those three things overall. That is NOT to say that other things play an influence, but:

" If our livers were working at their optimal capacity we wouldn't get acne."

is claiming that everyone's liver is to blame. What about Celiacs whose gluten problems contribute their acne? If Celiac disease is the root cause, then a worsening liver isn't the cause but a side-effect. The thing I am trying to get at is anecdotal evidence does not make it true. But if targeting your liver helps, then by all means other people may want to try it. I am even going to try it here soon.

Stating anything as fact when talking about human health is false. Following the scientific method, NOTHING can be stated as the definite cause of acne, and it'd be better if people would stop saying what acne was caused by and just lay out their anecdotal treatment success stories. That, at least, seemed to be what you were the most miffed about, yet still decided to give your own (albeit more popular and accepted) fact statement of what acne is/caused by.

Could the deepest root cause of acne be caused by a distressed liver? Maybe. Operative word of course being the 'maybe'. Both of you are wrong in your fundamental assumptions of what the cause of acne is and what acne is ... Even if one of you is right. Maybe a structured format for these type of threads should have a "Theory: " section as to the OP's theory on what causes acne, hehe.

Anyways though, we seem to agree on most things, the hypocrisy I was pointing out was simply the self-assured fact-statements that were present in both you and Zmffy's posts.

[Charlotte_89]

I mentioned this already, but it's buried in that big mass of typing. Some, us, people have overactive sebaceous glands which enable the liver to purge toxins through the skin. But once puberty is over many peoples' glands dry up and they are unable to get acne, or use that as a form of toxin purging anymore.

"unable to get acne" so in some cases, a case of acne is not necessarily the sign of a person who is worse off health wise. His clear skinned friend could be just as bad, but the damage is staying on his inside.

but then why dont they have acne in non western countries? their livers would still be burdened by numerous things, like less than clean water, vitamin defencies, etc and some of those people must have overactive sebaceous glands. so why don't they get acne?

[Translocator]

I mentioned this already, but it's buried in that big mass of typing. Some, us, people have overactive sebaceous glands which enable the liver to purge toxins through the skin. But once puberty is over many peoples' glands dry up and they are unable to get acne, or use that as a form of toxin purging anymore.

"unable to get acne" so in some cases, a case of acne is not necessarily the sign of a person who is worse off health wise. His clear skinned friend could be just as bad, but the damage is staying on his inside.

but then why dont they have acne in non western countries? their livers would still be burdened by numerous things, like less than clean water, vitamin defencies, etc and some of those people must have overactive sebaceous glands. so why don't they get acne?

Because acne is inflammatory. A big reason why we (probably.. hehe ) get acne is because of the well-documented omega 3: omega 6 ratios westerners have in comparison to non western countries. Many Americans get to the point of having a 1:60 omega 3:omega 6 ratio, usually because of high vegetable oil content in their foods. Non-western countries usually have simpler diets that are highly carb-focused with little fat. This little amount of fat will both keep their insulin sensitivity high (good thing) and the ratio of omega 3:6s that they get will be more around the optimal range of 1:3, 1:2, or 1:1.

All of this coincides with what Zmffy has said, but he places a large emphasis on liver health as well. Like he said in his post, his friend told him that while eating properly (and with a good omega 3:6 ratio) will stop further damage to the liver, but wouldn't heal the damage he's already done. This is why he then suggests adding liver cleansers and fasts, which help give the liver time to repair.

Personally I don't agree with Zmffy's theory that the most fundamental cause of acne begins with liver damage, it probably just has a fair bit to do with the entire process. Whether or not acne is completely inflammatory based or whether it is the liver's backup system is irrelevant, we CAN'T know so we must only study probabilities --

We've tested and found that a higher amount of omega 3 EFAs in your body has an anti-inflammatory effect, and a high amount of omega 6 EFAs in your body correlates with a higher degree of inflammation. We've also found that when we eat a large amount of fatty foods, our blood fat levels increase and promote a lower degree of insulin sensitivity. This means that when we go and eat sugary foods, our body needs to pump out more insulin than usual to deliver the same amount of sugar to the same cells. It also means that our blood sugar stays higher for longer periods of time, which is dangerous, and promotes candida growth (which is a fungal backup system that saves your life, but also has various hormonal effects on your body which promote acne)... and diabetes. Point is: eating too many omega 6 EFAs is disastrous and highly inflammatory. Non-western countries don't eat a lot of Omega 6s (OR 3s, obviously, since they don't eat much fat in general, but their food sources like fish, flax, fruits, whole grain rice, whatever, they have better omega 3:6 ratios).

Liver damage, I assume, would promote a higher degree of inflammation in your body via D6D inhibition (delta 6 desaturase, which catalyzes alpha-linolenic acid(ALA) into eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), which then goes through various conversions into the 1st prostaglandin... aaah I suggest you go look it up, there's a lot to learn ) and D5D promotion, which would be disastrous for acne-prone individuals. In my opinion, acne is definitely not caused by one specific thing -- your body works together and some people have more damage in acne-causing areas than others, so some fixes and medications will work on Billy, who has a shot liver, but not on Sally, who has Leaky Gut Syndrome.

... Yep.

[Charlotte_89]

Excellent work Translocator!! I see you've looked into this before

So to summarise (alot) they probably dont get acne in non western countries because they don't eat flammatory /sugary/fatty foods which mess with their insulin levels, and they have a more balanced omega 3 to 6 ratio?

This makes sense.

[Mr. Crab]

Translocater, you are spot on!

I just wanted to post here again because I started my water fast this morning and am 12 hours in right now. Tomorrow, after 24-30 hours, I will start eating smaller portions and taking a milk thistle supplement, unless I feel like I want to go on further with the fast. I may give some updates here in the next few days. I'd also like to say that most of my cysts feel like they are disappearing already!

[XCman]

Zmffy,

do you know of any additional ways to help clean your liver? Other than the herb supplement and eating right and fasting? I haven't tried fasting, but I soon will. The herbs and eating right I've been doing for a while now with little help.

[solidsnake88]

Hey, I would like to try this, but I wanted to know something, do you take the milk thistle while fasting, or do you take it while eating food?

Appreciate any help, Thanks Guys.

[pink_melodies]

This has everything to with my epiphany. I know, I know - it's been said before. But I didn't realize the DIRECT effects that an unhealthy liver can have. It's just so enlightening.

I am kind of hesitant about the milk thistle because it acts like estrogen when in the body... If I could buy a couple of pills to jump-start my process that would be good, but you HAVE to buy at least 30 pills... Maybe I'll just buy the bottle and do them every 6 months when I feel like I need a detox.

[alternativista]

What to do/take/eat for the liver:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Good-Acne...n-t230714.html#

But read the other posts too. The liver is only one factor in acne.

[Packerfan785]

You can still eat a high omega 3 diet with low fat like most non western countries and burden your liver...

[solidsnake88]

I just done this fast, I went 45 hours without food, just drank water, wasn't to hard, but for some reason I had serious urge for krispy kreme donut? Anyway, I Haven't really noticed a difference, I admit I dont eat healthy, I try to, but I don't think diet has a major effect on me, I have tried eating clean, but it doesn't make much difference, I always seem to get whiteheads and few cysts.

But while I was fasting, I didn't really break out, apart from 1 or 2 whiteheads and my face was looking less oiler.

I might try this again, But I dont really know how to incorporate Milk Thistle, Do I take it while I am fasting or while I eat?