76 replies to this topic

[jc]

As long as I get my commission from the liver flushing council of Canada, then I'm all for it. Flush away Trace!

[jc]

That is what I have you believe my dear princess!

[thebignosebandit]

tracy i was under the impression that the closest thing you came to a cure was accutane. good luck with your flush.

[Denise2]

SweetJade you are so right about the parasites. As you all know, I passed some weird looking parasites that I didn't know what they were. JC, you remember me talking about that? I did some research as I had a feeling they were liverflukes, and guess what? About 3 weeks ago, I decided to try to find some pictures of liverflukes online and found out that that is EXACTLY what I passed. 3 liverflukes while I flushed.....and I had no clue I even had them! So another good thing I found about flushing was that I also flushed out some pretty nasty parasites I had no clue I had. And no, I did NOT do a parasite kill before I did my flushes. Towards the end of my colonics and flushing sessions, I passed a white worm that was about 6 inches long! :blink: :huh: :o :unsure: :doh:

These parasites release tons of toxins and poop and pee in us!

THAT'S SO NASTY!!!!!! No wonder I had acne!!!!! :doh:

[jc]

You're so lucky Denise...to have pass parasites. lol Dang...I'd better start my paragone parasite cleanse soon!

[Locnar]

Nico, I think Locnar was talking to me. 

Well, I had acne since age 11, I'm 39, and am clear consistantly for the first time in my life.

Locnar, you really sound like an immature person.  In all honestly, you have no clue what you are talking about and we know our bodies.  I do feel sorry for you though because you sound very ill-informed and ignorant.  I have gone for weeks without Retin A use because I'm treating my scars through tca cross mostly, but have also had needling done.  And I don't start breaking out if I don't use it.  Retin A doesn't seem to effect me for the good or bad as far as breakouts go, but I think it probably helps minor scars and red marks a bit.  READ THE TCA CROSS THREAD IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.  And to be honest, since I've used the strongest peels known to man and they didn't clear me, then it's obvious Retin A wouldn't either (since they are about a gazillion times stronger than Retin A).  DUH.

All of you people who have no life experience and put all your faith in dermatologists will pay a price one day, you can be sure of that. Particularly if you are on antibiotics long term.  You are so willing to put your life and skin in the hands of doctors who don't even understand that diet effects acne, that long-term antibiotic use is the height of irresponsible treatment and can cause great harm because of the prolifiration of candida, and that the liver is the organ that helps skin stay clear.  I mean...good grief. 

Good luck, you'll need it.

It would be nice for once to have a discussion with "holistic" proponents without being called names. I guess that's wishing too much.

You still havn't refuted anything I said. There are still too many variables involved in your case for anyone to prove that liver flushes do anything. Anecdotal evidence cannot prove such a claim.

Correlation does not equal causation.

I'm still waiting to hear your dazzling rebuttle to that fact. I suspect that I'll be waiting for a while because THERE IS NONE.

It's not that doctors don't understand all your goofy theories from curezone, it's just that they know that there is NO evidence for them. And just for clarity, the position of american dermotologists in NOT that "diet does not affect acne." That is a bold face lie. Do some research.

[Locnar]

(a moment of silence please.....)

- First of all, in defense of Allopathic Doctors (M.D.s) I personally would not prescribe something that I don't know anything about.  - can work for the patient or against the patient, but it's in their best interest if they don't have a doctor that is up-to-date.

- In defense of Naturopathic Doctors - they are far more knowledgable about nutrition than any MD or DVM will ever be.  Nutrition classes in medical schools, such as Harvard, are very few, and in most, are still Electives!

In regards to Accutane, it's a TEMPORARY solution.  Not any different from all other solutions, except that there is this misconception that it's a wonder drug that you take for a small period of time, stop, and all your problems are gone.  Now, just like almost everything else you do on these boards, most will be continued for the rest of your life.  Accutane, as was stated by the manufacturer, Roche, it's antiandrogenic effects will cease once the medication has stopped.  Therefore, the effects can last from several months --- several years if you're lucky, but IF you truly have a hormonal imbalance (beyond puberty), then your acne will come back one day.  There's quite a few people around here that have been on up to 6 treatments over the years, and they still have acne.

Herbs, Vitamins, Dietary Supplements, and the various components of foods are documented.  Although, not every possible aspect of them has been, just as not every aspect of the human body has been discovered.  Yet, if it's popular enough, there's a study and there are plenty of studies that support what has worked for ALL of us on these boards:

http://www.pubmed.com
http://www.herbmed.com


Locnar,  I love your drive, but you are excluding some variables and some facts:

1.  RetinA - it has been used for several years prior and NEVER worked for Denise, myself, and others.  It helps, but it didn't prevent a percentage of us from continually breaking out while using it. 

2.  Time - very good variable.  The best way to test this is to stop using medications you know that help (retina didn't work before, why would it work now?), eat loads of "regular" food and stop the liver flushes.  Oh and getting some hormone, allergy, and intolerance tests would also be good too.  Of course, if it was time, then these wouldn't affect it. Then again, she's already done the liver flushes so, it may take a very LOONG time to get to such a toxic state. So this is a variable in study that probably wouldn't work for Denise, but perhaps others.

3. Parasites - this is supposed to be the 2nd step (after changing diet) in the cleansing process (followed by Liver Flush).  Now people have found parasites while they were doing their liver flushes also, but anyone that travels frequently out of the country, swims in lakes, ponds, eats undercooked meat, water vegetables, or has pets, probably has parasites.  They are not just for those in the third world countries.  You don't always have to be sick, to be unhealthy (if that makes sense).  Sometimes parasites just live off of you, without any intentional harm to you, but they are still taking away your nutrients.One of the things that I remember from my Animal Behavior class (loved that class) was that birds that had parasites, were much smaller, weaker, sicker, had poor looking feathers, and were not as brightly colored as the birds that didn't have parasites.  

Other countries consistently rely on various methods for naturally or medicinally eliminating parasites, yet those in the U.S. rarely do, despite the knowledge that we do have parasites and have had controlled outbreaks in the past.  You can't always see them when you flush, some are microscopic, and others aren't. One way to test this is to have your feces examined. I had this done over a year ago due to some IBS problem (I just needed more fiber) and it came out negative (I dont' know parasites they were looking for though).  Of course, it depends on that particular parasites life cycle in the human body, but for some, if they aren't dead, they probably won't flush (eggs might).

4. Liver Flushes - This is just a double blind experimental study waiting to happen.  We already know it's possible to flush the liver of stones through the use of electricity, but can we do it through the use of oil, acid, and salt....? 

Well many people around here say we can.  So far this is all pseudoscience until a study has been done on it, right?  Since that hasn't happened yet, you can do a case study and see what people are saying. I'm not a survey fan, but based on those members that have tried this, there was no other possible explanation.  They didn't alter anything else in their diets (for the better), didn't start a new prescription, etc.  All they did was follow the liver flushing and cleansing procedures.  Of course, those vary too.  So you can develop quite a few studies from this based on the variables of that alone, but the ingredients are still the same, oil, citrus & fruit acid, and salt.

Assuming that no one here is lying (why???? there's no money to be made from this) and that their past histories are accurate, how else do you explain their results?  If RetinA didn't do it, Allergy medicine didn't do it, MS meds didn't help, Anti-androgens or DHT inhibitor didn't do it, for some a changes in their diet didn't wasn't enough, changing their sheets didnt do it, bottled water didn't do it, and using all natural detergeants didn't fix it, then what else could it be?

I think most people, particularly after a certain age, are smart enough to realize that if they moved into a new house, changed schools, different work environment, moved to a new city or state, etc that those could all be factors too.  So based on what they've given us, there's no other variables left.  

Seriously, if you want a study done on this, why don't you start one yourself.  There's plenty of people here that haven't done a flush that plan on it.  There's a thread on healthboards where a group of them are working up to doing a flush (taking the cleansing herbs first) you could interview them. 
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=146886
or
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=160291

True, it won't be a controlled study, but it will be the closest thing you've got to an effectiveness study, and in the real world, that's what counts more.  IF the results are in the liver flushes & cleanses favor (since most do these together), then you can get grant money and do a controlled study just to confirm and eliminate other factors. 

***Please take note, it's rare if anyone is cured after 1 flush. Most notice some results around the 2nd or 3rd. flush.  So you want a controlled study that is done short term for 1 -  2 months (2 - 4 flushes).  Then a long term study where you monitor them for 6 months or longer (around 6 - 12 flushes).

I hope that gives you some more stuff to ponder  ;-)


Take care all

SJ: I wan't attempting to list all of the variables. I was just pointing out to some that with the presence of a lot of variables, anecdotes cannot prove causality. You seem to understand that, so my post is not targeted at you. I value your input because you seem well informed.

However some users here can't seem to grasp the correlation=causation myth. It's a logical fact that you just can't get around no matter how much foot stomping and name calling you do.

[Locnar]

What the hell are you talking about stupid. I'm not using anything on my skin. I don't even wash it except when I'm in the shower.
And no cystic ane doesn't just go away like that.
You're blind and you're the one making up bullshit stories about what else it "could" be but you do NOT clear the kind of acne we had with Retin A (wich I'M NOT USING because topicals simply dO NOT WORK) and if it was just time it wouldve started fading a long time ago to be at the level it is now. It doesn't go away just like that in such a little amount of time except in your little fantasy magical dream world.
You're the one who's making up bullshit stories like "0h wel m4yb3 teh stpnz r jist harduned ol1v3 oil1!!11!". So please mr bullshitty the bullshitting troll, just go post your bullshit elsewhere unless you want to keep looking stupid.

Nico, I have to say, if you can't take some debate without resorting to this kind of post, then I'd suggest not sharing your idea's on a message board.

I don't understand why you are chiming in on liver flushes anyway, didn't you tell me that all illness was due to too much mucas, and that you have solved your mucus problems with diet? Or was that just last weeks BS?

[Keats]

keats you are absoloutely ridiculous.

this whole conspiracy of dermatologist/pharmacies/and money is ridiculous.

my doc will NOT prescribe accutane to me. because he feels that my condition is not severe enough. if he was so money hungry to sell me these $12 pills, he would have given them to me last year, but no, till this day he is hesitant to put me on it.

you are ridiculous.

The reason he wont is because of the risks of it prescribing the drug for you. It has been proven that the drug cause damage to your body in the long run.

I have used it as well. Actually i have done three courses, and I actually became addicted to the drug. I couldnt live one day without it, because i lost all my self-confidence in my skin. I knew this drug would supress my acne, it's a proven fact. It helps! But after each course of accutane the acne came back.

That made me go really insane. I got quite depressed, lost my whole self-confidence. I felt i was in some sort of vicious circle: acne -> roaccutane -> clean from acne -> stopping the roaccutane -> getting back acne after xxx months.

I have tried so so so much anti--biotics before this and really no one worked! That's why the derm have put me on accutane.

But that didnt seem to be the right treatment to me, because it apparently doesnt take care of the root of acne.

So I asked myself if there really wasnt a way to find out the root.

I went to a quite obscure person, so called iriscopist (someone who looks through meridians in your body, where blockades are) and she told me I was poisened!

And listen, I did only tell her some of my problems. I have told her I have used accutane as a treatment, but that it only worked on the short run. I have told her that in the period of using accutane, spider veins were developped all over my feet and ankle.

And I am only a male of 21! So thats quite abnormal for such a young person!

I did my search on the internet for a long time and found out that there were theories about acne been the consequence of a detoxified liver, etc etc.

I did a second search for the veins and discovered that there are theories that these are caused by abnormal blood clotting, and not well-functioning of some blood-transport processes, blablabla.

After a long time of searching and stuff like that, I thought myself of thinking that there might be an interconnection between the spider veins and the acne both caused by the same problem.

So I decided to visit a local health store and asked them for a detoxification program. They sold me some products and I started using them.

Now it has been 2months later. I have no more acne and the development of veins stopped.. Actually I have the impression that they are actually a little bit faded. They are harder to notice..

Only this made me feel much better!

Now, I just dont want other people to overcome same things as I had with the accutane drug. That's all man. Sure I wont stop you if you believe your own stories or your derm, but I am just talking from my own experience.

--Keats

:lol: If you know someone who can diagnose disease by looking at the "meridians" of your body, then I know where that person can make one million dollars. Of course they won't, because it's all flim flam.

I dont think you understand me. People come from very different countries come to her for her treatments.

I think you are just a lamer who is only here to flame ppl.

[Locnar]

People come from many countries huh? Well that certainly proves it. I'm not here to "flame" or be a "troll." I'm sincere in my beliefs. I've never accused anyone of not being sincere, I'm not really sure why I'm getting accused. I suppose when you run out of real arguments.....


If your "meridians" person can truely diagnose disease, with any accuracy better than guessing and/or observation, then she can collect one million at www.randi.org. But she won't. Because she's a charlatan, making money off of the sick and desperate. Just like other faith healers, gurus, snake oil salesmen, "bloodless" surgery, and all other kinds of flim flam.

I understand you. Don't confuse disagreement with misunderstanding. I'll just add "lamer" to the long list of names "herbal" people pull out when they've run out of normal BS to say. It's funny that I get called immature and then get called:

lamer, 12 year old, doofus, stupid, barney fife, troll, mr shitty,
Whew, I just can't remember them all.
Yet I'm the immature one here.

[Keats]

People come from many countries huh? Well that certainly proves it. I'm not here to "flame" or be a "troll." I'm sincere in my beliefs. I've never accused anyone of not being sincere, I'm not really sure why I'm getting accused. I suppose when you run out of real arguments.....
 

If your "meridians" person can truely diagnose disease, with any accuracy better than guessing and/or observation, then she can collect one million at www.randi.org. But she won't. Because she's a charlatan, making money off of the sick and desperate. Just like other faith healers, gurus, snake oil salesmen, "bloodless" surgery, and all other kinds of flim flam. 

I understand you. Don't confuse disagreement with misunderstanding. I'll just add "lamer" to the long list of names "herbal" people pull out when they've run out of normal BS to say. It's funny that I get called immature and then get called:

lamer, 12 year old, doofus, stupid, barney fife, troll, mr shitty,
Whew, I just can't remember them all.
Yet I'm the immature one here. 

I didn't run out of arguments, i did run out of putting any more effort in worthless conversations with you.

[willparadigm]

Still can't refute one thing I said except with sarcasm and mocking. And you are laughing at us?!

Keep yer acne, we will all stay clear.

p.s.....did you note that I use safflower oil, which is clear and not green. Oh! That's part of my imagination too. Gotcha!

So those little clumpy thing stop passing why? And they are sometimes big, somtimes small, sometimes a couple of inches and are white, black, and tan because of what? That green olive oil?!

Yer pretty funny...I'll give you that. You write a list and still don't provide one sensible refutation except for someone else told you it was wrong. Well duh....keep trusting your derm to keep you clear and we will all STAY CLEAR.

Gall Stones a couple inches across would tear your bile ducts apart. There's no physical way for your body to pass them ... period.

[Vanbelle]

This thread is a delicious read.

I love drama

[chunkylard]

This topic is 7 years old. I want to hit you for bumping this up willparadigm. Now we're gonna have an influx of people guzzling olive oil to get rid of gallstones.

But yeah this topic is hilarious and made me a bit queasy. Look how far we've come in 7 years. From gallstone flushing to urine therapy. Oh wait...