40 replies to this topic

[I hate redspots]

Oh ffs there were no cookers of course but there were these miracles called FIRES.

People have cooked for millenia. Why do you think our guts cannot cope with large amounts of raw meats? We have evolved away from that. There is nothing 'unnatural' about cooking OR WE WOULDNT FUCKING DO IT.

Peoples diets millions of years ago are completely irrelevant to now. So we started eating grains 10000 years ago. Have you any idea how many generations that is? Our digestion system has no doubt evolved during that time. It doesn't take millions of years for a change like some people seem to think. And people live longer now than the cavemen did. Why people obsess about these cavemen diets is beyond me.

10000 is nowhere near long enough for natural selection to take place especially in a species like humans which have actually helped the weak throughout history. But because we have eaten it for so long I'm sure we have adapted somewhat its not like we're completely new to it.

When people talk about evolution btw they are talking about natural selection which is basically survival of the fittest. In a nutshell it is like saying a species is weeded out over not just a few hundred generations but millions of generations due to the slightest of slight differences which give them the slightest advantages. It does take as long (if not longer) than people seem to think.

Adaption however, does not take as long.

That is completely untrue. Natural selection can happen drastically in 10000 years over small things such as a small adaption in diet. Europeans built up a high capacity for alcohol in a much smaller time. Small but noticeable difference in species can be found even just a couple of generations.

Natural selection is NOT all over a scale of millions of years/generations.

The title of your post is misleading

If you were indeed 'Eat[ing] real food in it's natural state'

Why cook the meat?
Why cook the veg?

That is altering it's natural state.

You refer to "choose food that would have been consumed thousands, if not millions of years ago" - Fair enough but thousands and yes indeedy millions of years ago there weren't no cookers so it would've been raw baby!

I agree with other bits, coloured boxes and such like although I sprout grains and they are tasterrific

Oh ffs there were no cookers of course but there were these miracles called FIRES.

People have cooked for millenia. Why do you think our guts cannot cope with large amounts of raw meats? We have evolved away from that. There is nothing 'unnatural' about cooking OR WE WOULDNT FUCKING DO IT.

How do you know that fire was used to cook meat and not just to keep warm?

"Why do you think our guts cannot cope with large amounts of raw meats?" - er, cos we're not supposed to eat it in the first place??

ffs - love it!

We're not supposed to eat meat in the first place?!! Not followed human history much?

If we didn't want to cook the meat why the hell would we keep it warm?

[lollypolly]

We're not supposed to eat meat in the first place?!! Not followed human history much?

If we didn't want to cook the meat why the hell would we keep it warm?

In answer to your first question - I said RAW meat not meat

I can't answer the second question cos it doesn't make any sense

[I hate redspots]

So you're saying we're not meant to eat raw meats, but we are meant to eat cooked meats I assume? But also you're saying that cooking is some sort of modern invention?!!

My second question is responding to you saying "how do you know that fire was used to cook meat and not just keep it warm"

[ayla]

^She meant keep the people warm, not the meat.

Discovery of Fire

The controlled use of fire was an invention of the Early Stone Age (or Lower Paleolithic). The earliest evidence for controlled use of fire is at the Lower Paleolithic site of Gesher Benot Ya'aqov in Israel, where charred wood and seeds were recovered from a site dated 790,000 years ago.

Not everybody believes that; the next oldest site is at Zhoukoudian, a Lower Paleolithic site in China dated to about 400,000 BP, and at Qesem Cave (Israel), between about 200,000-400,000 years ago.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/ancientdai...ire_control.htm

I love the content of the original post - great advice. As usual, I advise a healthy combination of both raw and cooked whole foods. Some minerals and vitamins are only released when cooked, and some vanish when cooked.

Perhaps the OP could change the title to 'Whole Food' vs. 'Real Food'

[moonbase]

Look guys, the only reason we cook meat now is because of bacteria and diseases. geeze. oh and it tastes so wonderful~~

[lollypolly]

So you're saying we're not meant to eat raw meats, but we are meant to eat cooked meats I assume? But also you're saying that cooking is some sort of modern invention?!!

My second question is responding to you saying "how do you know that fire was used to cook meat and not just keep it warm"

Yeah as ayla points out I meant people. I'm sure people didn't go "hang on a bloody minute, let's invent something to heat up this meat cos it tastes pish"

I don't think we should eat meat at all raw or cooked and the fact that everyone who eats it has to cook it first (aside from raw meat eaters - massive kudos to them) leads me to believe it isn't a natural intuitive option. Just my opinion of course


"Perhaps the OP could change the title to 'Whole Food' vs. 'Real Food'" - yes that was my original point

[JacJack]

So you're saying we're not meant to eat raw meats, but we are meant to eat cooked meats I assume? But also you're saying that cooking is some sort of modern invention?!!

My second question is responding to you saying "how do you know that fire was used to cook meat and not just keep it warm"

Yeah as ayla points out I meant people. I'm sure people didn't go "hang on a bloody minute, let's invent something to heat up this meat cos it tastes pish"

I don't think we should eat meat at all raw or cooked and the fact that everyone who eats it has to cook it first (aside from raw meat eaters - massive kudos to them) leads me to believe it isn't a natural intuitive option. Just my opinion of course


"Perhaps the OP could change the title to 'Whole Food' vs. 'Real Food'" - yes that was my original point

you do know we get more nutrition from COOKED vegetables
and raw veggie often contain oxalic acid which gives us hard time to get some of the important stuff like calcium from food
There's nothing UN-natural when we use fire( nature source) to enhance food
raw vs cooked veggie
raw vs cooked veggie 2

[lollypolly]

you do know we get more nutrition from COOKED vegetables
and raw veggie often contain oxalic acid which gives us hard time to get some of the important stuff like calcium from food
There's nothing UN-natural when we use fire( nature source) to enhance food
raw vs cooked veggie
raw vs cooked veggie 2

No I don't know that and I don't agree at all in the slightest

There is no significant risk (in my opinion) with oxalic acid in natural food stuffs unless you eat rhubarb leaves I believe - which I don't

Fire may be natural but eating food with fire isn't, no other species on the planet does so and manages to survive quite lovely



Smallprint
The above information is my opinion and is not intended to start an argument neither is it a request for you to try and alter my opinion with articles or opposing arguments with references to internet pages which back up your point as being right and my being wrong. I couldn't give a shit if you fully understand or appreciate the merits of a raw vegan diet. It works for me so that's all that matters. ahthankyou

[Necromancer]

Yeah, I'd like to meet the person that can't appreciate a big raw piece of chicken or fish.

Yeah I would too I'm guessing there isn't a meat eater on this site with the balls to pick up a chicken, slit its throat and start munching the way nature intended lol yuk

These people a thousand, oh no, a million years ago would be pissing themselves laughing

Yeah I'd be laughing at 'these people a thousand, oh no, a million years ago" when they reach my age (25) since they are all in the ground buried since they are already dead before they hit 21 from parasites and all types of bacteria illnesses.

[valo_123]

I completely respect someone's decision not to eat meat for whatever reason it may be. I agree that the way companies kill animals is inhumane, but to say that we aren't meant to eat meat? Is there any reason you feel this way other than you think it's cruel? To say that we need fire to prepare it is a completely 100% terrible argument. Just 1 of many examples I could come up with....were born naked, does that mean it's wrong to put cloths on just because it's unnatural?

[Glass Danse]

you do know we get more nutrition from COOKED vegetables
and raw veggie often contain oxalic acid which gives us hard time to get some of the important stuff like calcium from food
There's nothing UN-natural when we use fire( nature source) to enhance food
raw vs cooked veggie
raw vs cooked veggie 2

No I don't know that and I don't agree at all in the slightest

There is no significant risk (in my opinion) with oxalic acid in natural food stuffs unless you eat rhubarb leaves I believe - which I don't

Fire may be natural but eating food with fire isn't, no other species on the planet does so and manages to survive quite lovely



Smallprint
The above information is my opinion and is not intended to start an argument neither is it a request for you to try and alter my opinion with articles or opposing arguments with references to internet pages which back up your point as being right and my being wrong. I couldn't give a shit if you fully understand or appreciate the merits of a raw vegan diet. It works for me so that's all that matters. ahthankyou

Are you against using fire to boil water...?
And I don't see why you would want to compare to other animals who couldn't even make fires and cook food if they wanted to, and who die earlier than we do.

[I hate redspots]

So you're saying we're not meant to eat raw meats, but we are meant to eat cooked meats I assume? But also you're saying that cooking is some sort of modern invention?!!

My second question is responding to you saying "how do you know that fire was used to cook meat and not just keep it warm"

Yeah as ayla points out I meant people. I'm sure people didn't go "hang on a bloody minute, let's invent something to heat up this meat cos it tastes pish"

I don't think we should eat meat at all raw or cooked and the fact that everyone who eats it has to cook it first (aside from raw meat eaters - massive kudos to them) leads me to believe it isn't a natural intuitive option. Just my opinion of course


"Perhaps the OP could change the title to 'Whole Food' vs. 'Real Food'" - yes that was my original point

Oh, well in that case your definitely wrong. Fire was used to keep people warm. But it was also used as a hunting technique to scare/herd wild animals, and it was used to cook food. It was one of the earliest tools used by mankind.

[tenten]

Our bodies have adjusted to eat all kinds of foods. If you live life like this and never enjoy foods how boring a life that will be? when your probably 70 you'll look back and wish you just enjoyed yourself the way you wanted. Eat good but eat happy!

[Packerfan785]

Our bodies have adjusted to eat all kinds of foods. If you live life like this and never enjoy foods how boring a life that will be? when your probably 70 you'll look back and wish you just enjoyed yourself the way you wanted. Eat good but eat happy!

I feel better when I eat healthy foods and am happy in my choice when I chose them. Who says you need to eat unhealthy food to feel good?

Our bodies are very poor at digesting diary and grains hence all the related allergies.

[mike_wf]

I like your post and think it's really informative. My one problem (with this post and the paleo diet overall) is that it seems to ignore cultures that have incorporated grains successfully into their diets. I mean look at the mediterranean diet, which is assosciated with lower levels of all kinds of diseases (alzheimers, heart disease, etc). And how about the traditional Japanese diet?

[JacJack]

you do know we get more nutrition from COOKED vegetables
and raw veggie often contain oxalic acid which gives us hard time to get some of the important stuff like calcium from food
There's nothing UN-natural when we use fire( nature source) to enhance food
raw vs cooked veggie
raw vs cooked veggie 2

No I don't know that and I don't agree at all in the slightest

There is no significant risk (in my opinion) with oxalic acid in natural food stuffs unless you eat rhubarb leaves I believe - which I don't

Fire may be natural but eating food with fire isn't, no other species on the planet does so and manages to survive quite lovely



Smallprint
The above information is my opinion and is not intended to start an argument neither is it a request for you to try and alter my opinion with articles or opposing arguments with references to internet pages which back up your point as being right and my being wrong. I couldn't give a shit if you fully understand or appreciate the merits of a raw vegan diet. It works for me so that's all that matters. ahthankyou

oh horrray
since when did we discover another live form in another planet?

I hate it when people keep giving out false information because of what they "believe" in
raw vegetable is good for us but cooked veggie is even better

I completely respect someone's decision not to eat meat for whatever reason it may be. I agree that the way companies kill animals is inhumane, but to say that we aren't meant to eat meat? Is there any reason you feel this way other than you think it's cruel? To say that we need fire to prepare it is a completely 100% terrible argument. Just 1 of many examples I could come up with....were born naked, does that mean it's wrong to put cloths on just because it's unnatural?

exactly!!!

[lollypolly]

Oooh haven't we all got ourselves carried away. Loads of posts and I can't quote everyone but I'll try and respond to what I guess was directed at me.


1. yep raw meat = "parasites and illnesses" so yeah i wouldn't recommend eating it but i know some raw folks do. A big pile of raw meat and organs ain't appealing in my book...

2. Is there any other reason I feel this way - yeah it's because I don't believe it natural to eat animals nor beneficial to ingest meat products. It might cure your acne and that's what we're here for but I'm betting in a few years time you're gonna be feeling and looking pretty shitey

3. No I'm not against boiling water - I have tea sometimes, it's nice...

4. I compared us to other animals as I was saying no other species on the planet (of which there are quite a few) cook their food to death to eat it - eat the way nature intended, it feels better

5. I am "definitely wrong" - only numpties say that. Nobody here can say anybody else here is wrong, it's a childish argument in my opinion

6. living life like this and never enjoying food - i hope that wasn't based at me - i love life and i always enjoy my food it makes me feel alive and wonderful and it serves my body exceptionally well

7. cooked veggies is better - er, i disagree, like i already said a bizillion times


p.s. yes i think we ought not to wear clothes - it'd make life waaaaay more funnier

[I hate redspots]

^Im not saying you are wrong about anything else, Im just saying you were wrong when you said people thousands of years ago only used fire to keep themselves warm, they had far more uses for it than that.

And please explain to me how cooking things using a fire is 'unnatural'?

The way fruits and vegetables are farmed nowadays, that is FAR more unnatural.

[valo_123]

IN MY OPINION, you came into the thread to indirectly say that eating meat is not natural and is not right to do, obviously knowing this would annoy people. You're post had nothing to do with the original post, you just had to get your two cents in there IMO. Then when people oppose what you're saying, which you had to know would happen...they're being argumentative right? lol, that's pretty childish IN MY OPINION

Maybe i should find a vegetarian thread or message board and drop in to give my opinion that not eating meat in is the incorrect way. Of course I'd say it in a round about way so they couldn't accuse me of starting an argument..after all, I'd just be offering my opinion, no harm in that!

[Wynne]

IN MY OPINION, you came into the thread to indirectly say that eating meat is not natural and is not right to do, obviously knowing this would annoy people. You're post had nothing to do with the original post, you just had to get your two cents in there IMO. Then when people oppose what you're saying, which you had to know would happen...they're being argumentative right? lol, that's pretty childish IN MY OPINION

Maybe i should find a vegetarian thread or message board and drop in to give my opinion that not eating meat in is the incorrect way. Of course I'd say it in a round about way so they couldn't accuse me of starting an argument..after all, I'd just be offering my opinion, no harm in that!

I agree.