40 replies to this topic

[Rodey]

I hate to even bring it up because I really do like Dan's products and they do work for me, but what is up with the absolutely ridiculous shipping prices?

I've ordered golf bags, golf clubs, computers and they've all been a heck of a lot cheaper than two 9oz bottles of cleanser. I don't buy into the "jacked up prices on the product but lower shipping" thing either, especially not when purchasing products on a place like eBay and getting great shipping prices.

I'm sorry, but it's just really frustrating and ridiculous that when I buy two 9oz cleansers, the shipping almost doubles my total and that's for the cheapest/slowest shipping method.

It's taken up to 10 days before to get my order and I'm paying nearly $15 for that?

Come on now, something needs to be changed here.

[cool as kim deal]

A lot of online retailers use free, flat-rate, or otherwise discounted shipping to try to induce you to order a bunch of stuff there. Amazon.com does it, most computer stores do it, overstock.com does it, drugstore.com--basically any huge online store. They make up for this by raising the prices of the items they sell or reducing overall costs in other ways (e.g. customer service). You might not believe it, but that is indeed what they do. (You can read an article about it here.) Dan doesn't do this. Small sellers on eBay also often offer similar shipping deals because of intense competition, they want you to buy from them rather than the guy listed one above them. It's not clear that all of those sellers are offering shipping pricing schemes that are rational in the long run--they might not be able to make a profit if they keep it up and aren't marking up their goods more. Yeah, I know, this doesn't matter to the buyer in most cases, but if the buyer wants to be sure the store will still be around if he wants more, he should care that the seller isn't driving himself out of business with unsustainable shipping offers. I think Dan is just that kind of seller--if you try the products and like them, you definitely want them to be around so you can reorder. You don't want him to do stupid shipping offers that might get you to order things now, but then you won't be able to reorder in the future because he's out of business.

If you want to make sure you're not getting ripped off, you can weigh your products and try using shipping rate calculators on ups.com or usps.com. I think you'll find that the shipping rates are where they should be, though keep in mind Dan's will be a little higher because they also cover packaging and handling. You also might look at what an order would cost you with shipping and handling included, divide those costs among the things you ordered, and compare those prices to the cheapest equivalent products that you can get elsewhere online. I think even with shipping included, Dan almost always wins on price against online stores. Then you consider the quality of what you order and realize, yeah, this is a good deal. Don't just let the shock of what the cost of the shipping alone is freak you out.

[Aroused Guy]

I hate to even bring it up because I really do like Dan's products and they do work for me, but what is up with the absolutely ridiculous shipping prices?

I've ordered golf bags, golf clubs, computers and they've all been a heck of a lot cheaper than two 9oz bottles of cleanser. I don't buy into the "jacked up prices on the product but lower shipping" thing either, especially not when purchasing products on a place like eBay and getting great shipping prices.

I'm sorry, but it's just really frustrating and ridiculous that when I buy two 9oz cleansers, the shipping almost doubles my total and that's for the cheapest/slowest shipping method.

It's taken up to 10 days before to get my order and I'm paying nearly $15 for that?

Come on now, something needs to be changed here.

I have to agree, even after what CAKD said. Sometimes the shipping is more than the product...

[cool as kim deal]

I have to agree, even after what CAKD said. Sometimes the shipping is more than the product...

The products are inexpensive but heavy, and weight is what determines the shipping cost, not how much you paid for them. To me, it makes sense that the shipping wouldn't be supercheap. It might be psychologically discouraging to place an order where the shipping is nearly as much (or more) than the product prices, but there's nothing actually wrong with that, I think. Consider the case if Dan was able to lower production costs more and sell his products for even less, but the shipping and handling steps were unaffected. Then the shipping cost to pre-shipping price ratio would be even higher, but you'd still be getting a better deal even though shipping now "looks" more expensive.

Also, keep in mind that if you like the products, ordering more at a time will save you on shipping per item. Shipping prices are not linear by weight; for example, if you order twice as much stuff as you usually would, then the initial price will be twice as much, but the shipping prices on your whole order will certainly not double--they won't increase by much at all, in fact.

[Rodey]

Just a note, I meant two 16 oz bottles, but I was tired and I think everyone understood.

I'd honestly rather pay more for the product and less for shipping, it'd at least make me feel better. It's just absurd that I'm paying $15 for shipping, which is almost the same amount of the product itself. That and the fact that it takes so long to get the product after paying that price is pretty annoying.

I'm still not sure if I understand how this method is any cheaper than other places jacking up the price of the product, but lowering shipping. It's exactly the same. If you have a higher priced product but lower priced shipping and a lower priced product but higher priced shipping, in the end, it all equals the same anyway.

[Dan]

This was a hard decision for me to make when I went to larger sizes. Should I increase the price of products to artificially make it seem like shipping was cheaper? I decided to keep charging the lowest amount I could for products and charge to the penny what it costs me to ship stuff. That seemed more in line with one of my top ethics which is to be straightforward with people. Pumping up prices to artificially lower shipping, even though it would probably be better for business, seemed a little weird to me. I'm not sure what to do in the future though. Gas prices have made shipping go up and up and it is ridiculous sometimes how much it costs. Let's keep it as an open dialog. What do you guys suggest?

[Aroused Guy]

Is there a cheaper insulator/protector thing? When I opened my box, there was like 10 air packs in a little box lol. Would an alternative be cheaper to lower the price of handling?

[cool as kim deal]

Gas prices have made shipping go up and up and it is ridiculous sometimes how much it costs. Let's keep it as an open dialog. What do you guys suggest?

That's all the more reason to have us pay the shipping charges as they stand rather than to inflate the product prices. Gas prices are volatile, and you'd either have to change the product prices rather frequently to adjust for the latest figures (which will make people complain and require more explanation than just a high shipping price will), or you'd have to take a guess at future prices and put a fairly big markup on the products (especially since right now the cost only includes oil used in production of the bottles, not the actual shipping, right?). Neither scenario is more desirable for us than just charging what you've been charging for the products and having us deal with the couple extra bucks in shipping. I prefer transparency over satisfying an irrational desire for low shipping costs.

One possibility is offering a small flat-rate shipping charge for first-time customers only (by email, or shipping address, or billing address, or whatever makes most sense). This might be a good compromise between losing money on shipping costs while attracting new customers. People who like the products (like, everyone ) could then reorder in larger quantities, and while paying more for shipping than they did the first time, the per item shipping cost is still much lower when you order more stuff. I've never found it to be problematic.

When I start work in a couple of days and have access to Lexis-Nexis, I'll look up some scholarly econ/business articles on this topic. People aren't rational when it comes to shipping prices, apparently, and I'm sure it's been quantified.

[Aroused Guy]

If Dan's products eventually make it into stores, I'd rather pay for the store price than pay online.

All rates are to my zip code and lowest shipping rate available
I live in the St. Paul area in Minnesota

Daniel Kern

• $10.16 - 16 oz. products
• $4.97 - 8 oz. products
• $4.46 - 6 oz. products

Drugstore.com

• $5.99 - for standard shipping (up to 20lbs.)

Amazon.com (shipping rates vary, but all rates are listed with shipping BY AMAZON.COM itself)

• $7.94 - Johnson's Head-to-Toe Baby Wash, 15 Ounce Bottle 5 PACK (75 oz.total)
• $6.14 - Neutrogena Fragrance Free Liquid Neutrogena, Facial Cleansing Formula, 8-Ounce Pump Bottles (Pack of 3) (24 oz. total)
• $5.58 - Meguiar's G-13616 Quick Interior Mist and Wipe Detailer. 16 oz. liquid

I can see that other online stores have a cheaper shipping cost, and the shipping speed is reasonable.
The customer service is also decent.

[bojker26]

one thing i would say as well is that being from the uk i get charged about $40 as a tax on delivery makes the stuff very expensive, i'm not complaining cos my skin looks as good as it ever has but it may become to pricey for me when i become a skint student next year!
ha

[howling bells]

im with cakd on this one i think. transparency and fairness with prices is so important and i think its a cornerstone to an internet regimen like dans. personally id rather know honestly what im paying for, i wouldnt want artificially lowered shipping prices if the cost is just going to go straight back on to the products. i think dan already does a good job keeping his prices as low as possible,so he's doing the best he can, unfortunately shipping prices are sort of out of his hands and controlled by other factors. id rather keep the regimen products as a steady constant and deal with an increase/decrease in shipping when needed.

also as an international customer i think the prices are very reasonable. i pay somewhere in the region of $13-$16 for 14oz-32oz which when you think its shipped all the way across the atlantic within a week for, what, 7 pounds or so? i think people are just too used to cheap prices nowadays, i mean the cost of packaging that, driving it to the airport, fuelling the plane/boat that brings it over and then driving it to my front door all the way through all the royal mail post office etc etc, the man power, hours and fuel that goes into that is easily equatable to 7 pounds in my mind.

though yes import tax is a bitch but then we have our lovely government to thank for that. just try and keep it under $36 and you should be ok

[elleumas]

Is shipping prices going to rise in the near future? If it is, is it possible to give a heads-up to this community so those are interested can do a 'final' order at the existing shipping price.

[artless]

I'm still not sure if I understand how this method is any cheaper than other places jacking up the price of the product, but lowering shipping. It's exactly the same. If you have a higher priced product but lower priced shipping and a lower priced product but higher priced shipping, in the end, it all equals the same anyway.

yeah, you already said it's 'exactly the same'. so why does it bother you so much? find out how much the shipping is, add it to the cost of the product and figure out whether it's worth it to you. that's what i do. it's not as if they make money out of shipping unlike some other online companies. the amount they actually pay for shipping tally with what i paid them, factoring in packaging costs.

i stay in asia and it takes 1 week for the products to reach me with the cheapest shipping method. sorry to say that it's probably your postal service that's inefficient rather than danielkern.com's fault.

[elleumas]

actually, those living in the US should stop complaining about shipping costs


I'm in Asia too and my shipping costs are really high. Solution is I gather a few people who are interested and we order together...lowers the costs per person by alot

[Master_Z]

I agree. Its a bit too expensive. Recently I shipped something about the same weight via priority mail, shipped it in a large box, and it was still cheaper than Dan's shipping.

[thp1017]

Are the USPS flat rate boxes used at all? That's one thing that bothered me somewhat - if you order three or four of the 16oz bottles of various items, the should all fit in the large flat rate box (12" x 12" x 6"), which only costs 12.95 regardless of weight, yet the USPS priority shipping rate was over $20 - and similarly for the smaller flat rate boxes and smaller orders... of course the P&H also factors in to the total cost, but it's sometimes hard to figure out how the system got a particular number.

As far as new customers go - have you considered "selling" your packett samples? Maybe charge some minimal amount to cover costs per shipment, and include one of everything/everything you have available in samples? I'm interested in trying your cleanser, for example, but the high cost of "trying" a bottle out prevents me

[Dan]

I'll take all of these suggestions under consideration.

I would guess that shipping prices will hopefully stay steady for a while as people stop driving as much and demand drops, but who knows. The world is consuming more and more oil and that could cause prices to keep rising.

In the meantime I'll try to explain better where our shipping costs go. For instance, you can always ship something cheaper yourself at the post office. The shipping costs on danielkern.com go to not just shipping the product but handling. We pay a great rate for handling--less than the industry average. We have a great company who helps us keep prices on that down, but they still have to hire people to pack boxes and I always want to make sure whoever is doing work for us is getting paid well and treated well.

I'll look into the UPS flat rate boxes ASAP.

Thanks you guys. Keep the suggestions coming.

[Aroused Guy]

I'll take all of these suggestions under consideration.

I would guess that shipping prices will hopefully stay steady for a while as people stop driving as much and demand drops, but who knows. The world is consuming more and more oil and that could cause prices to keep rising.

In the meantime I'll try to explain better where our shipping costs go. For instance, you can always ship something cheaper yourself at the post office. The shipping costs on danielkern.com go to not just shipping the product but handling. We pay a great rate for handling--less than the industry average. We have a great company who helps us keep prices on that down, but they still have to hire people to pack boxes and I always want to make sure whoever is doing work for us is getting paid well and treated well.

I'll look into the UPS flat rate boxes ASAP.

Thanks you guys. Keep the suggestions coming.

Do you mean USPS boxes? Please be USPS lol.

[lynn3]

USPS has a flat rate box also. I was hoping Dan was talking about USPS also!

[Rodey]

I'm still not sure if I understand how this method is any cheaper than other places jacking up the price of the product, but lowering shipping. It's exactly the same. If you have a higher priced product but lower priced shipping and a lower priced product but higher priced shipping, in the end, it all equals the same anyway.

yeah, you already said it's 'exactly the same'. so why does it bother you so much? find out how much the shipping is, add it to the cost of the product and figure out whether it's worth it to you. that's what i do. it's not as if they make money out of shipping unlike some other online companies. the amount they actually pay for shipping tally with what i paid them, factoring in packaging costs.

i stay in asia and it takes 1 week for the products to reach me with the cheapest shipping method. sorry to say that it's probably your postal service that's inefficient rather than danielkern.com's fault.

I admitted it would be exactly the same, if I believe that that's what other places do, which I'm still not fully convinced on.

It's not my postal service being inefficient. My postal service is VERY efficient and I get every other item I purchase, that comes through USPS on-time and very quickly and usually cheaper.

I paid $14.95 or something like that for shipping on my previous order here, which I ordered about a week ago, I believe the 12th or 13th. It's now the 21st and I still do not have my new bottles.

If I pay $14.95 for shipping and handling, I expect to get it in 2-3 days, because that is the 2-3 day price for a lot of items.

And for those who say it's just because of the economy recently, I disagree, because these are the same shipping prices, or very close to the same, that I've been paying since I started the regimen back in Dec 06 - Jan 07.