26 replies to this topic

[sie]

acne vaccine?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846368...Pubmed_RVDocSum

[andersoj]

: drooling : :L

[bug]

would this vaccine actually be for acne then? in my microbiology course my prof. told us that if p. acnes gets into your bloodstream, it can cause endocarditis. now, the vaccine would create antibodies for the bacteria circulating in your bloodstream. to me, it sounds like the vaccine, then, would be more for the endocarditis aspect. but woud it have an effect on the p. acnes that get into your pores (i assume from the outside external environment, meaning not using the bloodstream)?

[ibroken]

I can't understand one freakin' word of that article/link.

[BrenOne]

Suprised that this hasn't been thought of already...

[JustaMomToo]

would this vaccine actually be for acne then? in my microbiology course my prof. told us that if p. acnes gets into your bloodstream, it can cause endocarditis. now, the vaccine would create antibodies for the bacteria circulating in your bloodstream. to me, it sounds like the vaccine, then, would be more for the endocarditis aspect. but woud it have an effect on the p. acnes that get into your pores (i assume from the outside external environment, meaning not using the bloodstream)?

Yes, it was discussing the vaccine for acne. They were using heat-inactivated P. acnes to create the vaccine in hopes that it would suppress P. acnes-induced skin inflammation as inflammatory response is a part of the development of acne. Plus they continued to explain, "...antibodies elicited by inactivated vaccines effectively neutralized the cytotoxicity of P. acnes and attenuated the production of proinflammatory cytokine IL-8 in human sebocyte SZ95 cells."

Even though things developed for one disease sometimes are successful for others, since it is from the Journal of Investigative Dermatology, I would assume this is being developed and tested for acne as it states in the end, "These observations highlight the concept that development of vaccines targeting microbial products may represent an alternative strategy to conventional antibiotic therapy.Journal of Investigative Dermatology advance online publication, 8 May 2008; doi:10.1038/jid.2008.117."

Sie - Thanks for posting that link! It's very exciting!

BrenOne - I totally agree with you! With all the other diseases they try coming up with vaccines for, I'm surprised this wasn't thought of before. Unless, of course, it was but we hadn't heard of it bc it hadn't been successful in tests.

[sie]

Alot of people with mild/sporadic acne have success by quitting picking and quitting products. I wonder if doing that would simply allow your body to slowly develop back its own antibodies and slowly distribute those antibodies (immune strategy/knowledge) to the immune cells (to essentially... re-teach the immune system "when" to leave p. acnes alone, and "when" to take it out--which would be after they've colonized and begun causing inflammation).

[peteyboy]

Hmm. I'm not really sure how this vaccine would work.

If I'm not wrong, what a vaccine does is that it delivers a harmless form of the microorganism which will then elicit a immune response from the body. The next time the real microbe comes, the body will know exactly how to deal with it, so the microbe will be killed before it could cause any symptoms

The diseases that can be vaccinated against are usually those where you get infected once and you gain total immunity against them. Diseases like chicken pox, polio, measles. Strains that can rapidly mutate usually do not have true vaccines. The flu vaccine for example guards against current strains but will have to be 'updated' in the future because it won't work against future strains.

Besides, after repeated exposure to the acne bacteria, the body should have developed immunity against it on its own. If it hasn't, then it is unlikely any vaccine would help.

In any case, even if the vaccine does work, it won't help us because all vaccines are preventative in nature. There is no point giving someone who already has chickenpox a vaccine because the vaccine is not a cure, just a prophylatic measure. It might be good news for those who hasn't got acne though.

[andersoj]

^ Your no fun

[JustaMomToo]

^ Your no fun

hahaha Your response made me chuckle as it was my thought exactly as I was reading Peteyboy's much too logical approach to this whole vaccine about which I'm fantasizing!

[JustaMomToo]

Hmm. I'm not really sure how this vaccine would work.

If I'm not wrong, what a vaccine does is that it delivers a harmless form of the microorganism which will then elicit a immune response from the body. The next time the real microbe comes, the body will know exactly how to deal with it, so the microbe will be killed before it could cause any symptoms

The diseases that can be vaccinated against are usually those where you get infected once and you gain total immunity against them. Diseases like chicken pox, polio, measles. Strains that can rapidly mutate usually do not have true vaccines. The flu vaccine for example guards against current strains but will have to be 'updated' in the future because it won't work against future strains.

Besides, after repeated exposure to the acne bacteria, the body should have developed immunity against it on its own. If it hasn't, then it is unlikely any vaccine would help.

In any case, even if the vaccine does work, it won't help us because all vaccines are preventative in nature. There is no point giving someone who already has chickenpox a vaccine because the vaccine is not a cure, just a prophylatic measure. It might be good news for those who hasn't got acne though.

Yesterday I was thinking about that same thing, however, I was thinking they wouldn't come up with a vaccine for people who don't have acne simply due to the fact you don't know you have it until you get it. Plus, you don't know how serious it will be until it becomes serious. Many times kids get it briefly, then they simply outgrow it, as happened to my nephew. Both my kids have great skin. How was I to know that would happen? My husband has great skin, but they could just have easily gotten my skin. Then there are kids who have horrible skin with parents who have great skin.

I am looking at it from a standpoint of how allergies are treated with allergy shots. You can read some of the related links to the right of that article. They did say they hoped vaccines would replace antibiotic usage and how they hoped this vaccine would work. Plus, I can't believe parents would vaccinate their kids without ever knowing if their child would even develop acne with all the concerns about vaccinations now as it is.

If you read anything else where they state this would be given before actually acquiring the disease, and not simply used as a treatment option, let us know the link, article, etc. so we can be depressed together lol. This is a fascinating topic!

[sie]

I was thinking in terms of allergy shots too when I read it. A few of my family members had deadly allergies as children and took allergy shots and can now (as adults) be exposed to the allergens with mild or no effects. Its the same logic as homeopathy too. Aid the body in doing its job...wake up the immune system and get your immune system working the same way as clear-skinned people's immunity.

But I think a person with acne could conceivably retrain their own system but would have to live with ugly spots from the spot's "cradle to grave" without any interference: no extraction/popping, no shot, no spot treatment, nothing; until the immune system straightens out. In other words, let the immune system kill the p.acnes, which left in the system is just like the heat-inactivated cultures used in the experiment--it induces antibody creation (AFTER the awful inflammation period--the hardest part to go through). You could have an anti-inflammatory diet, to help some, but no spot treatment of inflammation. It's part of the process that your body MUST go through. You'd have to do this with every single spot (NO interference, no benz. per., nothing), but it would seem that over time there would be fewer and less severe spots, until finally: clear skin. Basically: do nothing. Do nothing to interfere with the "handling" of p.acnes. You can still wash and AHA and moisturize and do whatever you do for keeping nice, young skin...but do nothing that interferes with the immune response to the spot/infection. You could nourish your immune system with green tea, zinc, echinacea, etc...but don't interfere with it...don't try to do its job for it. (Obviously this is for your basic pimply skin, not for severe cystic acne, which should be referred to a doctor.) What do you guys think?

[daarchitect2007]

People with acne don't illicit an immune response to P Acne bacteria. They illicit an inflammatory response to the byproduct of the bacteria. These bacteria convert triglycerides in human sebum into free fatty acids and then convert those free fatty acids into medium and long chain fatty acids. These medium and long chain fatty acids incite the compliment pathway that releases neutrophils and cytokines causing inflammation and hyperkeratinization. An acne vaccine would work by initiating an immune response to the Acne bacteria themselves, the body would effectively stop acne bacteria overgrowth and resultingly substantially reduce their inflammatory byproducts. The reason the body doesn't develop an immune response to acne bacteria after contact is because the body doesn't realize the acne bacteria are harming it. It is only reacting to their byproduct.

[peteyboy]

Wow. That makes sense.

However, if acne bacteria does not elicit a immune response from the body even though the body knows that it's there, the vaccine shouldn't be any good because the immune system won't be provoked by it as well.

[daarchitect2007]

Well there are some levels of antibodies tailored against P acne. While p acne are a member of normal skin flora; they still need to have their levels kept in check. Your body does have some levels of P acne antibodies floating around. This vaccine seems to incite a substantial increase in P acne antibodies. An increase in sebum allows P acnes to proliferate as they take advantage of a narrow niche in the skin's lipase function. The bodies circulating levels of P acne antibodies can't account for this overgrowth and the P acnes are allowed to proliferate until their fatty acid secretions activate the bodies alternative complimentary pathway. The alternative pathway isn't regulated by antibodies; it is an innate response and far less precise. Those with higher androgen values and hormonal imbalance who are prone to acne have a higher ratio of natural killer T cells to helper/regulatory T cells. When the alternative pathway is activated the area is flooded with both, however, inflammation is rampant as the helper/regulatory T cells are too few to down regulate the inflammatory actions of the NK Tcells and their corresponding inflammatory cytokines, etc. The primary pathway is a much more precise action that relies on the regulatory effects of antibodies. If the antibodies were in greater number, P acne bacteria could be down regulated without the excessive inflammation or activation of the alternative pathway. This methadology is exemplified in the skin disorders of HIV positive individuals. They are subject to something called Gram Negative Folliculitis. This is an overgrowth of gram negative bacteria that are not present in the normal skin flora. With comprimised immune function their antibodies falter allowing Gram Negative Bacteria to flourish. This overgrowth incites the alternative pathway causing an acne like eruption anywhere on the body. In summary, a higher amount of P acne antibodies would curb the unaccounted for overgrowth of P acne bacteria due to increased sebum production.

[davevexer]

I theorize that there already is an acne vaccine/cure/whatever. Obviously they don't wanna release it to the public because acne prevention companies and such make billions and helps the economy.

[thenumber12]

im giving my babies that

[ben100604]

I theorize that there already is an acne vaccine/cure/whatever. Obviously they don't wanna release it to the public because acne prevention companies and such make billions and helps the economy.

The reason there isn't a cure at the minute is because the human body is a very difficult thing to work against. There is no conspiracy.

[daarchitect2007]

BTW a p acne vaccine has been used in dogs for years. It's called immunoregulin.