41 replies to this topic

[LiliVG]

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/...nt/167/1/71.pdf

Histamine production was dramatically reduced when male rats were castrated. Histamine levels returned to normal when the castrated mice were given supplemented androgens. Acne, as we know, involves excess androgens, or excess sensitivity to androgens. Perhaps allergens don't cause acne, maybe androgens make us prone to allergies and acne?

I mention this because of the trend I've noticed in myself and others on this board who notice that common food allergens seems to make their acne worse, such as wheat, dairy, nuts, etc. And there does seem to be a link between histamine and androgens.

What do you think?

[hippie_ops]

I think it may be true? I have morning flu a lot and sometimes i take anti-histamines when its out of control. This androgen thing may be causing me my spots, hair thinning and sinus problems. What a combo to have=(

[ryudoadema]

Could be a coincidence, but it seems that when I do things that are supposed to control androgens (good, sleep, exercise, omega 3, low gi etc.), foods that bothered me before with acne or gi symptoms dont anymore or not as much!

[alternativista]

Yep. And Vitamin C is an anti-histamine and was part of the vitamin combo (b-complex, Zinc and C) I took that was the first thing that ever helped me. I have rosacea as well and my face is never red anymore.

It's also good for the adrenals. There's a thread on that somewhere.

[rakbs]

So are you saying that excessive androgens causes excessive histamine, which causes abnormal allergic responses to certain foods...yet we aren't really allergic to them, and we would be able to tolerate them if androgen levels were normal?

And does anyone else wish that curing acne was as easy as taking a pill without any side effects?

[alternativista]

So are you saying that excessive androgens causes excessive histamine, which causes abnormal allergic responses to certain foods...yet we aren't really allergic to them, and we would be able to tolerate them if androgen levels were normal?

And does anyone else wish that curing acne was as easy as taking a pill without any side effects?

I've seen a few threads on people taking anti-histamines. Zanex or zantax or something like that. There was one here and one on healthboards. In the end they gave up because you can't take them long term, but maybe that was specific to the specific anti-histamine they were using. You can take vitamin C long term.

[Zanpakutou]

I think it's important info. I've had chronic sinus problems around the same time I developed acne, and it's still going strong (although greatly reduced due to my change in diet).

I have oily skin, acne, allergies, etc. All seemed to happen at the same time (post puberty).

[DeAntonio]

Vitamin C is a good one

Ive never megadoed but supposedly 18,000 MG a day of Vitamin C will help acne..... thats a HUGE dose which isnt lethal but 36 times more then the 500MG a day recommended serving

[rakbs]

It would be easier to overdose on the soy lecithin that's packaged with the Vitamin C than the Vitamin C itself.

[LiliVG]

I didn't know vitamin Cwas an anti-histamine, that's interesting.

Salt is a natural antihistamine also.

Lately I've been drinking peppermint tea because it's anti-androgenic, 3 cups a day, and I've been able to eat chocolate, peanut butter, and wheat, things I could never eat before. I think this androgen-histamine thing may be why.

[Tasha90]

It would be easier to overdose on the soy lecithin that's packaged with the Vitamin C than the Vitamin C itself.

I wonder what the best way to get extra vitamin C would be...without having to take a supplement. I know, for instance, rosh hip and black currant have very high levels of vitamin C.

@LiliVG, that's really interesting. I've been drinking peppermint tea as well, two cups a day. Would you recommend three instead?

[LiliVG]

I've been using loose leaf peppermint tea in a metal tea ball dipper thingy, lol so I don't know if there's a difference between doing it that way and using the pre-made paper tea bags in a box. Maybe pre-made tea is more processed and so less effective? I don't know. The tea costs waaay less when I bought it in bulk, so I just do it that way. I've also been thinking about getting some peppermint extract, but I haven't really looked into that yet.

Oh, and also I sweeten the tea with xylitol instead of sugar or honey.

[rakbs]

This might be of interest: the mineral copper apparently is able to signifanctly reduce histamine, and too much copper actually results in histamine levels that are too low.

Maybe it would be worth it to take a milligram or two of supplemental copper, especially those of us who have been taking zinc for elongated periods of time.

[alternativista]

This might be of interest: the mineral copper apparently is able to signifanctly reduce histamine, and too much copper actually results in histamine levels that are too low.

Maybe it would be worth it to take a milligram or two of supplemental copper, especially those of us who have been taking zinc for elongated periods of time.

There's a lot in the cocoa I drink everyday. And something else I can't think of off hand. But I know I was wondering if I should start worrying about copper levels because there's also a milligram in my multi.

[sepsi]

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/...nt/167/1/71.pdf

Histamine production was dramatically reduced when male rats were castrated. Histamine levels returned to normal when the castrated mice were given supplemented androgens. Acne, as we know, involves excess androgens, or excess sensitivity to androgens. Perhaps allergens don't cause acne, maybe androgens make us prone to allergies and acne?

I mention this because of the trend I've noticed in myself and others on this board who notice that common food allergens seems to make their acne worse, such as wheat, dairy, nuts, etc. And there does seem to be a link between histamine and androgens.

What do you think?

Could be, but the fact that allergenic foods trigger in inflammatory response could also be the reason. What I've discovered is that along with blood sugar issues chronic, low-intensity inflammation is another big reason for acne. Inflammation also leads to blood sugar issues and vice versa so those things reinforce one another.

[SweetJade1980]

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/...nt/167/1/71.pdf

Histamine production was dramatically reduced when male rats were castrated. Histamine levels returned to normal when the castrated mice were given supplemented androgens. Acne, as we know, involves excess androgens, or excess sensitivity to androgens. Perhaps allergens don't cause acne, maybe androgens make us prone to allergies and acne?

I mention this because of the trend I've noticed in myself and others on this board who notice that common food allergens seems to make their acne worse, such as wheat, dairy, nuts, etc. And there does seem to be a link between histamine and androgens.

What do you think?

Could be, but the fact that allergenic foods trigger in inflammatory response could also be the reason. What I've discovered is that along with blood sugar issues chronic, low-intensity inflammation is another big reason for acne. Inflammation also leads to blood sugar issues and vice versa so those things reinforce one another.

Androgen Dominance (and to a milder degree Estrogen Dominance), Thyroid imbalances, Adrenal imbalances and/or a Hypersensitivity to normal amounts of steriod hormones are associated with chronic acne cases. In this regard, high androgen levels most certainly can correlate with high Insulin levels/Insulin Resistance, which as you've already mentioned, is known to be a sign of the Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome.

It makes sense to see that histamine levels, among other pro-inflammatory markers, should also increase with the presence of Androgens. Yet...is that really the case or it it because Androgens are....Inflammatory or..... Androgen excess can also be a sign of Insulin Resistance, which...is a sign of Chronic Inflammation....LOL.

Did I basically repeat the same thing twice?

OK, in all seriousness, one proposed pathway would be:

Trigger--->"Silent" Chronic Inflammation--->Insulin Resistance---> (+ "background" inflammation)--->Hyperandrogenism---> (+ more "underground" inflammation) ---> Acne (surface inflammation)

Okies... off to bed I go


P.S. Did anyone catch the article about the best way to treat allergies is not to inhibit histamine but to GIVE histamine?


P.P.S. Bumped into this new type of chocolate called "The Doctor's Chocolate" sweetened w/ Xylitol and 1 g of table sugar (3grams or more of table sugar affect me), so this isn't a problem for me at least. What I found interesting was how it's promoted to relax you, improve mental clarity, blood flow, skin etc all due to the amino acid L-theanine! If you look it up, high levels are found in Green Tea and is believed to help reduce histamine in studies and subsequently inflammation... http://www.thedoctorschocolate.com

[DeAntonio]

This might be of interest: the mineral copper apparently is able to signifanctly reduce histamine, and too much copper actually results in histamine levels that are too low.

Maybe it would be worth it to take a milligram or two of supplemental copper, especially those of us who have been taking zinc for elongated periods of time.

More then that IMO...

I usually shoot for like 10 MG a day, thats well over the recommended limit but if you suspect a Copper Defiency then Ive read thats fine to take

Copper is dirt cheap... got a Bottle of 2MG Copper Pills, 300 in the bottle for under 3 bills


right now Im doing

Methionine 1000MG
Copper 10MG
Vitamin C 17,000MG
Calcium + Magnesium - 2000 MG Calcium, I think around 500 Mag.

All of those are beneficial in Histadelics and those with High Histamine Levels... Ill keep all posted

[LiliVG]

This might be of interest: the mineral copper apparently is able to signifanctly reduce histamine, and too much copper actually results in histamine levels that are too low.

Maybe it would be worth it to take a milligram or two of supplemental copper, especially those of us who have been taking zinc for elongated periods of time.

More then that IMO...

I usually shoot for like 10 MG a day, thats well over the recommended limit but if you suspect a Copper Defiency then Ive read thats fine to take

Copper is dirt cheap... got a Bottle of 2MG Copper Pills, 300 in the bottle for under 3 bills


right now Im doing

Methionine 1000MG
Copper 10MG
Vitamin C 17,000MG
Calcium + Magnesium - 2000 MG Calcium, I think around 500 Mag.

All of those are beneficial in Histadelics and those with High Histamine Levels... Ill keep all posted

Woah! I read that much can induce vomiting, it must not be absorbing or something...

[DeAntonio]

This might be of interest: the mineral copper apparently is able to signifanctly reduce histamine, and too much copper actually results in histamine levels that are too low.

Maybe it would be worth it to take a milligram or two of supplemental copper, especially those of us who have been taking zinc for elongated periods of time.

More then that IMO...

I usually shoot for like 10 MG a day, thats well over the recommended limit but if you suspect a Copper Defiency then Ive read thats fine to take

Copper is dirt cheap... got a Bottle of 2MG Copper Pills, 300 in the bottle for under 3 bills


right now Im doing

Methionine 1000MG
Copper 10MG
Vitamin C 17,000MG
Calcium + Magnesium - 2000 MG Calcium, I think around 500 Mag.

All of those are beneficial in Histadelics and those with High Histamine Levels... Ill keep all posted

Woah! I read that much can induce vomiting, it must not be absorbing or something...

what, the 17,000 Vit. C or the 10MG Copper ?

[LiliVG]

the copper...