1247 replies to this topic

[alexmason14]

Hi Junebug,
These are the type, that most people are using, so yes alot of successes with that type, also one day isn't enough to see results, within a week hopefully you'll have clear skin or atleast be on the way to clear skin. These are the ones i've bought, just waiting for them to arrive now.

Alex

[rockets]

How can we actually find out our acne derives from hormonal imbalance?

Maybe it won't hurt to even try for a week or 2.

[alexmason14]

It's just common sense that the root cause is hormones, why does more then 80% of all teenagers have some sort of acne? Because at that stage of our lives, our hormones are so out of wack, and imbalanced. Also theres been hundreds of investigations into acne, and all of them say it's hormones. That's why alot of women are cleared using birth control, that's why this works, hormones impact nearly everything in our bodies, including our sebaceous glands (acne).

Alex

[pixxekurlz222]

Why does the thought of using progesterone cream scare me more than using DIM. I bought progesterone cream months ago when I thought I was Estrogen Dominant but never worked up the courage to use it. I guess because I've read some bad things about it and I don't trust myself to apply the correct dosage on the correct days. And I also read on the other board/thread where women were using DIM and seeing great results that one lady was actually applying too much progesterone cream and it was causing acne. So, she felt better just using DIM. I don't know. I don't think I'll go that route unless I'm working with naturopath or something. Which I can't afford right now.

I have no idea why!

Progesterone cream is quite safe. I use it instead of DIM because there has been much more research on its use and safety. It's best to purchase a kind that provides a metered dose, so you know you are getting the exact correct amount with each pump. A container like this:

https://www.arbonne.com/products/balance/prolief.asp (bottom left corner of that page talks about the metered pump)

I missed the post where someone broke out using progesterone cream. But, applying too much is obviously not smart.

Here is the post on another website where women were seeing good results using DIM: http://skincarerx.com/phorum/read.php?3,18273,page=1

It's long but the originator of the post talks about using progesterone cream and breaking out from applying too much.

and from the Weston A. Price Foundation:

Progesterone Creams Reconsidered

By Krispin Sullivan

Currently many women in the US are using topical progesterone creams, often called wild yam cream, or others such as Progonol, Progest and the like. These have been heavily promoted by Dr. John Lee and other alternative healthcare practitioners.

The general use of progesterone creams is alleged to be a safer alternative than estrogen therapy to prevent bone loss. This claim is based on anecdotal evidence from Dr. Lee. However, a recent clinical study showed no difference in bone mass between those using progesterone cream or a placebo. The cream did, however, reduce hot flashes. (Obstetrics and Gynecology August 1999, Vol 94, No 2, Pages 225-8)

In working with laboratories using saliva testing, we have found levels of progesterone in excess of many thousands of units above normal. The idea that this is natural and that there are no side-effects from use of these creams is incorrect. Some of the symptoms of progesterone overdose include headache, weight gain, fatigue, water retention and depression. One clinician described the symptoms of progesterone overdose to be similar to those of pregnancy.

Levels of progesterone begin to rise to abnormally high values after just 15 days of application of the creams. Symptoms begin gradually, often going unrecognized for months. When the cream is stopped it may take as long as three to six months for progesterone levels to return to normal. During this time symptoms may become worse before returning to the pre-cream baseline.

Here's the link to this article: http://westonaprice.org/women/natural_protection.html

You'll notice at the top of the page there is an article advocating DIM for estrogen dominance.

[BrenOne]

Hmm I'm confused;

Does DIM increase or decrease free testosterone levels?

Been reading the last few pages wondering about this too. Surely an increase would mean more acne?

EDIT - maybe should be seperate threads for male and female DIM users? Not in a sexist way lol - but more cos they're two totally different hormonal landscapes.

EDIT+ They are two totally different hormonal landscapes right?

[pixxekurlz222]

Hmm I'm confused;

Does DIM increase or decrease free testosterone levels?

Been reading the last few pages wondering about this too. Surely an increase would mean more acne?

EDIT - maybe should be seperate threads for male and female DIM users? Not in a sexist way lol - but more cos they're two totally different hormonal landscapes.

EDIT+ They are two totally different hormonal landscapes right?

I typed this out yesterday from a book I have on DIM. Does this help with your confusion?

How does DIM benefit testosterone activity?

Testosterone is an important contributor to healthy hormonal balance in both men and women. Testosterone is known as an androgen because when its effects dominate, male characteristics are seen. These include male distribution of body hair, a deeper voice, and male genital development. Testosterone is also identified as an anabolic hormone due to its ability to promote protein synthesis. Active protein synthesis produces bigger muscles and stronger bones, especially in response to exercise. This process also increases metabolic rate and consumes fat, resulting in a leaner physique. The more subtle effects of testosterone have to do with its action as support for mood and libido. Testosterone has clear antidepressant action and promotes interest in sex in both men and women.

Testosterone exerts its action differently depending on whether it is free or bound to carrier proteins in the blood. DIM, through its effects on estrogen metabolism, supports testosterone by helping to maintain the level of free, or active, testosterone. Free testosterone refers to the fraction of testosterone that circulates in the blood and is not associated or bound by SHBG, its carrier protein. Since only free testosterone easily crosses into the brain, muscles, and fat cells, much of the desirable action of testosterone has to do with the free portion. However, this represents only a tiny amount of the total testosterone, equal to only 2 percent of the total in men and even less in women.

High levels of SHBG “lock up” free testosterone, making it unavailable to support mood or metabolism. Interestingly, unmetabolized estrogen is the body’s primary signal to increase the production and levels of the testosterone-binding protein. Low levels of free testosterone have been identified during peri-menopause and are most dramatic in women with severe premenstrual syndrome (PMS) symptoms.

[BrenOne]

Thanx pixxekurlz - That helps! This thread is getting so huge it's hard to keep track.

[junebug1991]

Hi Junebug,
These are the type, that most people are using, so yes alot of successes with that type, also one day isn't enough to see results, within a week hopefully you'll have clear skin or atleast be on the way to clear skin. These are the ones i've bought, just waiting for them to arrive now.

Alex

Hello Alex,
Yeah yeah I know...one day is really too soon but I'm optimistic! =)
It's pretty funny though, it was the last package of 120 and there was one more of 60...i might go back in a couple of days to see if i cant snatch that one too, IF things start looking up that is.
Plus the guy there knew exactly what i was talking about... must be popular.

[Dotty1]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

[alexmason14]

It's got 100x Popular since this thread was made, shows how many acne sufferers there is, and how many people go on acne.org!, makes me really happy seeing people stick together and reporting new found 'cures'. Acne imo, is one of the worst diseases, that impact our self esteem. Hopefully this does work for most acne cases.

Alex

[Dotty1]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

[BrenOne]

One question. Even if DIM didn't increase the level of free testosterone but only "maintained" it's efficiacy by virtue of it's metabolising excess estrogen and SHBG-linked testosterone, shouldn't that mean an effective rise in free testosterone, thereby increasing androgenic effect (eg more acne)?

Put another way - does free testosterone cause acne?

[junebug1991]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

"wear off"?? Urgh. Doesn't everything.
im going to a birthday party tonight. there might be cake.
@_@ wish me luck.

[Case N]

im going to a birthday party tonight. there might be cake.
@_@ wish me luck.

Eat a piece for me too, I love me some kakez!

[kaleidoscope]

One question. Even if DIM didn't increase the level of free testosterone but only "maintained" it's efficiacy by virtue of it's metabolising excess estrogen and SHBG-linked testosterone, shouldn't that mean an effective rise in free testosterone, thereby increasing androgenic effect (eg more acne)?

Put another way - does free testosterone cause acne?

A rise in free testosterone should, I believe, cause more acne, oily skin, and other hyperandrogenic disorders such as hirsutism (excess hair) in women. That's pretty much common knowledge as far as I know. And according to some people, DIM does raise free testosterone. Which is why this is so confusing to me.

I even saw a post on another site where a woman claimed that I3C (precursor of DIM) significantly improved her acne AND hirsutism! Here it is: http://www.soulcysters.net/indole-3-carbin...ck-hair-182519/

Oh, but apparently DIM is also an androgen receptor blocker. So I guess that's how it works against hyperandrogenic disorders.

[Cleric.x7]

Hi Everyone!

On my second day of DIM and I have no new zits forming... but it's much too early to tell of course. I'm well aware of the placebo effect, so I'm going to take pictures at weekly intervals to see how effective it is.

-Cleric

[Mech]

Just woke up and looked in the mirror. No new zits. Yay! Face is clear right now---still have plenty of scarring to get rid of.

What do you use to get rid of the scarring?

[Daniell]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

If DIM is (expected to be) effective only for a limited time not because it simply 'cures' you, then that must mean that your body somehow apparently gets 'immune' to it, right? Then, don't you think it's better NOT to take DIM, since it apparently prevents your body from reaping DIM's benefits in the future (especially in case of teen acne since that already is expected to be 'only' temporary)? I mean, DIM is said to be great in preventing for instance cancer as well...

What do you think about this? Or am I just totally wrong here?



=========
I edited my post before I noticed Cleric's reply...

[Cleric.x7]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

If DIM is (expected to be) effective only for a limited time not because it simply 'cures' you, then that must mean that your body somehow apparently gets 'immune' to it, right? Then, don't you think it's better to NOT take DIM (especially in case of teen acne since that's expected to be 'only' temporary), since it apparently prevents your body from reaping DIM's benefits in the future?

What do you think about this? Or am I just totally wrong here?

As mentioned in earlier posts, it may be beneficial to vary the dosage or take DIM at different intervals (every 2 days as opposed to daily) so that the benefits stick long-term. It'll be interesting to see how effective DIM is after everyone has been trying it for a few years...

-Cleric

[bran88]

I am going to start a thread for those of us who want to find the basis of the estrogen/androgen problem. All anti-androgens have proven to "wear off" after 1-2 years of use (Accutane, Vitamin b5, birth control pills that control acne... etc).

So while we are reaping the benefits of this "cure", we need to start trying to find the real solution while we enjoy our skin...

If DIM is (expected to be) effective only for a limited time not because it simply 'cures' you, then that must mean that your body somehow apparently gets 'immune' to it, right? Then, don't you think it's better to NOT take DIM (especially in case of teen acne since that's expected to be 'only' temporary), since it apparently prevents your body from reaping DIM's benefits in the future?

What do you think about this? Or am I just totally wrong here?

hmm I don't think that anyone knows for sure if DIM only helps temporarily, that is just speculation. In fact I don't believe that this is most likely to be the case...other anti-androgens have hormones (or something like hormones in them...eg phytoestrogens, phytoandrogens or simulated human hormones made in the lab eg BCP) DIM doesn't have this property (like vitex chasteberry), DIM is supposed to help you manage your own hormones without adding anything else. So I'm not sure about permanence, but I wouldn't automatically say that DIM's effects are only temporary.