156 replies to this topic

[nma]

Genki Chu, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Guys, can anyone tell me how bad the face looks like 10 days after a deeper laser? Is it still badly swollen? When does the skin begin to peel? Are there any risks of permanent hyperpigmentation? Because I'm horrified about that. Even though my doc told me, the pinkish colour only last for some weeks. I dunno if I should trust him. Doctors say lots of things.

[katiekat]

i just did total fx 4 days ago. it didn't hurt me at all. maybe they went gentle w/ the settings (15 mJ on deep; 100 on active). but here's my concern. people report happy results right away. but it's only 4 days, and i can already see all my scars. and i'm still supposedly swollen! i dont see any improvement. is that how it's supposed to be? only notice results after months, after collagen's been stimulated?
why did my face go back to normal, when everyone else's seemed better even right after healing?

Yeah, I could c my scars about the same time frame. It took me about 4 months to notice a diff. To me , it made them a little smoother, but still there. I wondered about the whole Total FX or Max FX. I was told by one dr in Detroit that the Max was actually the original Co2. Does anyone know what the diff is?

this is my understanding, based on what my nurse told me. after she did total fx on me, i asked her to write down the settingz she used, which she politely did. one of the settingz she wrote down was DENSITY. i guess you could increase the density of the laser to a point where it's basically the same as full co2 (sacrificing the fractional quality that gives you quicker healing). but since it penetrates deeper, it'd present more risks.
now, i did full face co2 back in 2005, and resultz were junk. even though i have a bad history w/ the co2, the reason i did total fx is cuz the total fx laser penetrates deeper, stimulating more collagen to be produced. i don't notice any difference in my scarz yet, but i guess time will tell. (i know it should be slow and i should be patient, but people say they have immediate resultz, and i'm wondering why i'm missing out).

katie, did you like your results? would you do it again, or would you say it wasn't worth it? i'll do it again cuz healing time is low, but ONLY if i see promising resultz from this one

If I do another I might try the Fraxel Co2 or the original Co2. Right know i'm healing from the subcision I had last Wed. Not bad, just slightly yellow.

[bug]

nma, when i did full face co2 resurfacing, my face was pink for about 4 weeks. they went deeper on some areas of deeper scarring, and those were pink for almost 2 months.

for my total fx, i did that on wednesday; i went out to pick up a pizza last night, monday. so, 5 days and i was pretty much normal. maybe just slightly red on the face. you could get away w/ saying it's sunburn. but, you can see the red line where they stopped using the laser. nothing big though. swelling was pretty much gone in 3-4 days. they give you pillz for that.
it'll depend on how you heal (i heal really fast) and how deep your doc goes.
if your doc said a few weeks, he was probably being conservative, which is not a bad thing.

hyperpigmentation risks, i'm not sure about. no one said anything to me about it for the total fx. of course, sun spots is a problem if you're not patient and/or careful w/ the sun.

[Cubsfan]

here's some real before and after pics http://drfang01.so-buy.com/front/bin/home.phtml

[nma]

The before/after pics are quite discouraging. I was hoping for better results. Anyways, I am having MaxFX done later this month. I am so nervous about that. Will post before and after pics. Just wish me luck. Hope I will see some good results...

[pogo]

The before/after pics are quite discouraging. I was hoping for better results. Anyways, I am having MaxFX done later this month. I am so nervous about that. Will post before and after pics. Just wish me luck. Hope I will see some good results...

I think the pictures are an accurate representation of what people with bad scarring can expect from laser treatment.

The pictures do show some improvement and that's better than nothing.

THe unfortunate reality is, no current technology currently exists to radically improve lots of deep scarring. Deep pitted scars seem to be the most difficult to treat. I'm having a hard time accepting this but that's the facts.

It's the people with moderate scarring who will probably be the happiest with laser treatment. They might see their shallow scars totally disappear. Lasers work even better on people who just have superficial red marks. Look at this guy, his acne red marks, or is that a birth mark, I'm not sure, are totally removed:

http://drfang01.so-buy.com/front/bin/ptdet...tml?Part=000001

[nma]

I don't think my scarring is as bad as the ones in those pics. I think it is mild to moderate, but to me it looks horrible anyways. I know I tend to exaggerate, but that's the way I feel. If I will see anything more than 60% improving, I will be thrilled.

[WinstonSmith]

Bucksfan- I too had numbing cream and 3 tylenol...like having nothing at all.

tampagirl- When I was doing fraxel I paid $2500 all in all through many sessions for barely noticeable results. And for the Total FX fractional co2 I paid $1750 one time (doctor gave me $500 discount from $2250) and if I ever want it again only $1100. This is out of Denver Colorado.

Who did you go to?

[WinstonSmith]

I could say more about differences, but that is all a person really needs to know. I hope my writing proves that you MUST do your research before undergoing and laser treatment. I knew what, when, where, how, and why before I decided to choose this laser.

AJ

PS. If i'm wrong about anything you can correct me, but I feel I'm fairly accurate in what I said.

How do you do research the person doing it though? There aren't a lot of people who have a fractional CO2 laser and since it's new, there aren't before and after pictures.

I think this is probably the only laser that will help my scarring, white hypertrophic scarring, but I don't know how to find the right person. The plastic surgeons I've been to don't focus on scarring and haven't seen scars like mine really. They mainly do wrinkles, which is more common than scarring on the face, so that's more profitable...

[dolvid]

Just wanted to let you guys and gals know that I am having the Total Fx done in Dec. My issues are fine lines under my eyes ( least concerned with ), sunspots, and some pitting from electrolysis and acne I guess. I had a consult with a Plastic Surgeon last week. I find it interesting that he only deals with issues of the neck up ( seeing as its my face, feel he might be more qualified than one who works on butts and boobs ). Suppose to be really good and has written books as well. His office offers microdermabrasion as well as chemical peels. Wasn't sure if either would give me results that I am looking for. After talking to him, he said that the issues I had concerns with, would be about 80% accomplished with the Total Fx. After researching several websites regarding lasers, this is what I believed would be best for me. So after having it done, I can let you know how it went.

[cekim15]

Good luck dolvid! Specializing in the neck up is actually quite common; he's most likely an otolaryngologist (ENT; ear, nose, throat). Very few "plastic surgeons" have actually done an integrated plastics residency.

[Kevin DeBias]

you will soon find that nothing comes close to ActiveFX; there are patents on the internal components and more and more, companies are trying to save money by using abandoned lasing mediums, old technologies as "new", or just inferior processes. there's a lot of crap out there.

the lumenis ultrapulse Encore does not need to be upgraded to perform ActiveFX. my father actually used the coherent model (ultrapulse 5000C) to pioneer the procedure. I'm willing to bet there are docs out there using this laser with the protocol and achieving successful results.

enjoy. pour on the questions ....I'm here to help folks!!!

nice original post as well ---- i'm a fan of the raw reports.

take care --- happy thanksgiving!

kevin

This sounds very similar to Sciton's profractional. I'm under the impression that some Drs who had full CO2 lasers, have converted/upgraded these to fractional versions. The downtime is supposed to be less, so I suppose this makes it viable for more people.

My PS's description sounds similar: microlaser peel plus pro-fractional in the same treatment. Numbing cream, plus some sort of oral sedation. Expect 4-5 days downtime. No discussion about multiple treatments.

Glad to hear that you are pleased, as I'm scheduled in a few weeks. I'm a bit nervous about it, especially the thought of oral sedation. Wondering if this is similar sedation of colonoscopy (haven't had that, either).

[drjmc]

The combination fx offers something over fraxel. You're getting much more resurfacing and for a cheaper price.

Deep scar resurfacing plus superficial pigment resurfacing in one treatment.

So over a course of 5-6 you'd theoretically have a much better result than with the same number of fraxels.

I'm not sure though that FX goes as deep as Fraxel for scarring. C02 is also ablative so I'm not sure more than one treatment is wise. You lose about 10 percent of your skin with each C02 resurfacing. (That's vaporized tissue that's gone forever.)

I'm still new at figuring out all the laser stuff but I'm guessing what this girl had done is the CO2 fractional laser...a combination of Fraxel but with better results. Also, the CO2 Fractional laser is NON-ABLATIVE. I made sure before I decided to do it. I haven't done yet...I'll do it this next Tuesday but I made sure that it was non-ablative and there is no ozzing or crusting involved. A big plus since you definitely don't want to run the risk of more scarring!

hope this helps a little! Good luck to everyone!

HI ,I think the CO2 fractional laser is ablative but the side effects are reduced compared to the old CO2.

hmmm...that's interesting because my doctor told me that the CO2 fractional laser was non-ablative. Now I'm curious....

Hello and it is probably too late to post this but as an MD who stumbled across this board, I wanted you to know. Fraxel CO2 (repair) is absolutely ablative and if you doctor told you differently he does not understand laser physics. I recommend the procedure but it is ablative.

[nma]

Hi guys,
I am back from Odessa (Ukraine) where I had my laser procedure on December 18 and I want to share this experience with you. I had Max Fx on my full face, whereas the doctor went deeper only on my nose, cheeks and chin, where the most scarring was. Max Fx is a deep full CO2 laser, not a fractional one, and it was supposed to give very good results. The downtime was (and still is) quite long. I am almost on my 2 week post procedure and I still can't go out in public. Face is still deep pink, the forehead looking slightly paler. All in all I am VERY disappointed by the results. I got I think less than 30% improvement. One or two scars look slightly better, the other one are exactly the same. And it is not only my impression. My family was expecting me to return home completely changed and they couldn't see any improvement. I am so disappointed you can't imagine. I put all my fucking hopes in this fucking laser treatment. And my scarring was only moderate. I am sick of everything. Hope my face will return to its initial color, otherwise I end up crazy. I took pics every day post laser procedure. Will post them later.

[Kevin DeBias]

FYI ---- everyone needs to research their practitioner, the skill and expertise, the anticipated results.

CO2 is an advanced laser treatment. It looks easy, but this story right here is a first-hand experience of what appears to be an unsatisfied patient. Note: MaxFX is a major skin resurfacing treatment that does require general anesthesia. ActiveFX is a fractionated version, which can be successfully performed with topical anesthesia.

I encourage anyone seeking laser treatment to thoroughly investigate the options, ask as many questions as possible, and also seek treatment at a reputable facility with a reputable physician.

my father performs laser and aesthetic procedures 6 days a week --- Dr. Glenn DeBias.

see www.ilamed.com for further info.

I'm more than happy to assist with your goals ---- however, I'm not a physician myself.

Good luck, happy new year, and stay HEALTHY!!!!!

sincerely,

kevin

[Sam]

this one right? yeh his before and afters look good..but who cares..3 pics isnt enough.. docs need to put at least 30 pics up...y dont they? simple..becayse they dont have much success.

Thats what these pics are supposed to make us believe,that this treatment removes acne scar.

These pics are taken in different lighting and with different facial expressions,i couldn't believe a picture unless i took them myself.

[claisen]

One of the doc I spoke to who has UltraPulse Encore, Total FX (Deep FX & Active FX) said that DeepFX is better for deeper scars than UltraPulse. DeepFX downtime (can't go out) can be 7-14 days with redness/change in color of skin lasting for months.

I think for Asians, you can't be too aggressive with DeepFX or you get discoloration for a long time (as seen in the pics in website given). But then, you'd need more Tx with weaker settings.

Some docs believe that 4-5 Erbium Fraxels (latest version) can give better result than one CO2 fraxel.
Others believe not even close. And that it even outperforms traditional CO2 resurfacing because it ablates deeper (up to 1.6mm?).

I've seen some impressive results with erbium fraxels as well as CO2 fraxels, I mean if you put them side by side, you notice that are very impressive (with moderate/severe scars, pits). I've also seen some very unimpressive results - I guess it also has to do with expertise of the doc.

[indigenous]

Wow- I would be happy if I got the results shown in those pics. I am planning to do ActiveFX (w DeepFX in areas) in February, but I am so scared that it will be another waste of money. When I read that some, like nma here, are disappointed, I don't know what to decide. I have seen photos online that look like there was no improvement at all and some that look amazing- so I wonder if they're fake. When reading reviews you hear of people who are very happy and others who claim it did nothing for them.

I am anxious to see silversunpickup's results.

[nma]

you went all the way to the uKRAINE based on a certain website ive seen before...saw it when i typed in acne scarring
www.vsm-skinlaser.com.ua

this one right? yeh his before and afters look good..but who cares..3 pics isnt enough.. docs need to put at least 30 pics up...y dont they? simple..becayse they dont have much success.

Yes, that's it. I live in Romania. Ukraine is not THAT far, so the cost of the plane ticket was reasonable (about 320 euro).

I did not take my decision to go there based on only 3 pics. I have been in contact with that doc since August. My father (who is Ukrainian) also discussed with him on the phone.

[nma]

Wow- I would be happy if I got the results shown in those pics. I am planning to do ActiveFX (w DeepFX in areas) in February, but I am so scared that it will be another waste of money. When I read that some, like nma here, are disappointed, I don't know what to decide. I have seen photos online that look like there was no improvement at all and some that look amazing- so I wonder if they're fake. When reading reviews you hear of people who are very happy and others who claim it did nothing for them.

I am anxious to see silversunpickup's results.

Believe me, I put all my hopes in this treatment. And since it was a deep laser, it was supposed to give good results. At first I thought, oh my god, my face looks amazing, I couldn't see any more scars. That is because my face was still a little bit swollen I guess. Gradually they became more and more visible.

Here are 2 photos before the laser procedure:





Scars look the same even after the laser procedure.