119 replies to this topic

[~ Dee]

I'll start this thread by posting the text file I've been keeping on my computer to keep track of progress. Sorry, I don't have any pictures of myself.


Materials-
bacteriostatic sodium chloride (this is a specific type of injectable saline- not contact lens saline)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...p;aq=-1&oq=
about 30 gauge or smaller diabetic syringes
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+...p;aq=-1&oq=

Method- intradermal injection (for saline injections you'll be doing a slightly more slanted angle when injecting a rolling or box scar, you do not go in deep) Found a good example picture- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/mut...WLH50050_EA.jpg


Saline injections...

1st round- Thursday June 27th
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2nd- Tuesday July 3rd
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3rd round- did shallow depressions on forehead/chin-
July 14th, & 15th
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Sept 27th, Not a complete round of injections. Only went very shallow today. Skipped many injection sites.
With the exception of my north star, scar on tip of nose.
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4th Round- Friday, October 19th. Did extensive injections. Everywhere possible. Went a tiny bit deeper and some more shallow. Trying to determine which has more effect on icepick, & boxcars. (seems more shallow works better)
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5th- December 26th, booted stupid boyfriend recently & did another round of injections. Larger sites mostly. Three between brows.
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6th- January 1st, did shallow forehead scars, two larger brow scars, & icepicks. Did the other two major sites.
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7th- January third. Did the rest of my scars, & three icepick scars. Did brow wrinkle, ran up underneath whole length of scar.
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8th- Monday, February 4th- Since my recent TCA peel, I've been noticing older, more shallow scars. Did those shallow scars, pits, especially on forehead.. Did full face.
Slid needle about 1- 1 1/2 millimeters in at angle just beneath some large, scarred pores. Seems to be helping..
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Improvements are very noticeable at this point. I'd say two of my most anxiety causing scars have improved by at least 30%, both being of the boxcar/rolling variety of scar. I have a nasty pockmark on the center/tip of my nose. The largest, deepest scar of all. It has filled in significantly... As difficult as it is for me to spend an hour or more putting alcohol on my face, & sticking needles in it... I'd have to say the payoff is very much worth it. At a relatively low cost when compared to other, sometimes more invasive procedures.
________________________________________________________________________________

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9th- February 13th
Sooner than usual, am getting impatient, need to get work soon. Did almost all marks, but skipped some of the shallow forehead marks.
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10th- Sunday, February 24th- Pretty sure I got 'em all tonight!
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11th- Friday, March 7th- Did as many as I saw tonight. Feeling kinda worn out tonight from packing... May have missed a more shallow forehead spot or two.
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12th- Monday, April 1st- Did all of them again. Wanted one more round before doing another TCA peel.

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Disclaimer Thingy- Do this at your own risk. Please be careful, & research it for yourself as best as you can. Always use sterile saline, & clean needles. Sterilize the area before injecting. You are not going to need to insert the needle deep.
___________________________________________________________________________

[~ Dee]

I went in and dug up a bunch of informational threads about this method of scar revision.
These are the same threads that I read through to get myself started.


http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...line+injections


SELF Injecting Fillers for Rolling and Depressed Scars, Restylane / Perlane
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...p;hl=fibroblast
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...=187429&hl=

I will keep adding information to this thread. I believe saline injections are a very worthwhile treatment for scars that are really not often offered as they do not generate the kind of profit other methods do. I'm doing this at home, by myself. The only expenses being the injectible saline, & needles I'm using.

[pyro123]

Wow, 7th rounds of saline injections on the same scars. How's your progress on the icepick scars? Have you tried saline w/ subcission on the nonresponsive scars?

[~ Dee]

I've had two icepick scars by my left nostril fill in. They are still there, but I can barely see them anymore. Though, I'm not entirely sure icepick is the right term. They were big holes, like very wide, deep pores. I used to have to fill them in with makeup, now they're almost gone. I stuck the needle straight in.
The one in the middle of my nose (looks like a chicken pock scar) is much more shallow than it was.

I have not done subcission. I had a bad experience with a plastic surgeon years ago where he punch floated some of my scars. (I forget the technical term) The result for me was worse scarring.... I've had an aversion to plastic surgeons and dermatologists for years due to many bad experiences like that. I've had much better results on my own.

[~ Dee]

I found user Jenya's pictures of her forehead depression that Dr. Sire treated using saline injections. I found her pics & posts very inspirational in doing my own injections...
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...c=71585&hl=
If you scroll down to the third post you'll find her pictures.

[ninjazx]

Im looking to get some kind of injections done on my scarring as well and was wondering where did you get the materials from to do your saline injections? and how do you know how deep you need to go before injecting?

[~ Dee]

Wow, 7th rounds of saline injections on the same scars. How's your progress on the icepick scars? Have you tried saline w/ subcission on the nonresponsive scars?

Ok, I was just in my bathroom. I put on the harsh fluorescents that are attached to the sides of my medicine cabinet/mirror... Upon careful evaluation, I can honestly say that though some of my scars have not responded as quickly none are unresponsive. Some are improving at a slower rate, but they've all at least softened up a bit. A few haven't had as many injections as the larger ones. But, I have several scars that have ragged edges, were very severe, they have softened up significantly. Any deep holes are now more shallow than before. I'm very pleased with the results.
This isn't the way to go if you are impatient. It takes time, & repetition.

I'm going to be doing a 24% TCA peel soon as well. Mostly, I'm looking to improve pigmentation issues.

[~ Dee]

Im looking to get some kind of injections done on my scarring as well and was wondering where did you get the materials from to do your saline injections? and how do you know how deep you need to go before injecting?

I searched online for diabetic needles (about 30 gauge or smaller) & bacteriostatic sodium chloride... I forget which companies sold to me.. I only needed to buy once. I'll no doubt have plenty of extra when I finally stop doing the injections.
I believe only a few milimeters... What I was originally told was to go just beneath the surface of the scar, within the epidermis.
This is why I recommend doing your own research beforehand. I've provided a picture, links to informative threads... I've also invited someone I respect a great deal to come in and help me a bit with the thread. Hopefully, she will, & she'll be able to help me explain in better detail.
I wouldn't want anyone trying this without being well informed. So, please check back!

Anyone with any experience on the topic is welcome to come in and share.

[Wynne]

Hi all! Those are some excellent links, Dee. I'm SO very glad it's working out for you! I myself have only done one set of saline injections on myself but for me, it wasn't all that scary as I give injections every single day! (I'm a nurse). I know that it is very worrisome and scary for people to consider doing on their own.

And I will say honestly that there are some who should not even consider attempting this procedure on their own. Those who should not attempt it at all are those who do not read all the links that Dee so kindly researched and posted, conveniently in ONE place. She read all the threads and asked intelligent questions prior to even attempting the saline injection herself. That image she found is a very good one to show the technique of an intradermal injection; the ones I'd found for her were not that good! She studied, researched, and asked questions that couldn't be answered by a few minutes of Google/acne.org search.

Those who might consider doing a saline injection course are those who will read all those links, learn about the technique, research Dr. Sire possibly, ask questions that haven't already been answered in the saline injection threads on this board (just research, really), have good hand/eye coordination, steady hands, impeccable clean to almost sterile technique, and great lighting, and the proper supplies. And most likely, I would add: be older than 18. Better yet, find a practitioner in your area who will be willing to trial saline injections for you. Most doctors/plastic surgeons might not be terribly interested in the technique as it is not terribly income-producing...

And I, as a nurse, cannot do these procedures on others. I have been asked via PM if I would do TCA CROSS or saline injections and/or TCA peels for people. I am sorry, I cannot. It is not that I do not want to, it is that my nursing license does not allow me to do so. If I were a nurse practitioner (isn't going to happen!), I could possibly get a doctor who is willing to sign off for me to do these procedures for patients, but as it stands now, I cannot. It is illegal for me to do so. Please do not ask.

Specific questions I will be more than happy to help out with, but Dee has already done an exceptional job of explaining the procedure along with her progress.

[~ Dee]

Hi all! Those are some excellent links, Dee. I'm SO very glad it's working out for you! I myself have only done one set of saline injections on myself but for me, it wasn't all that scary as I give injections every single day! (I'm a nurse). I know that it is very worrisome and scary for people to consider doing on their own.

And I will say honestly that there are some who should not even consider attempting this procedure on their own. Those who should not attempt it at all are those who do not read all the links that Dee so kindly researched and posted, conveniently in ONE place. She read all the threads and asked intelligent questions prior to even attempting the saline injection herself. That image she found is a very good one to show the technique of an intradermal injection; the ones I'd found for her were not that good! She studied, researched, and asked questions that couldn't be answered by a few minutes of Google/acne.org search.

Those who might consider doing a saline injection course are those who will read all those links, learn about the technique, research Dr. Sire possibly, ask questions that haven't already been answered in the saline injection threads on this board (just research, really), have good hand/eye coordination, steady hands, impeccable clean to almost sterile technique, and great lighting, and the proper supplies. And most likely, I would add: be older than 18. Better yet, find a practitioner in your area who will be willing to trial saline injections for you. Most doctors/plastic surgeons might not be terribly interested in the technique as it is not terribly income-producing...

And I, as a nurse, cannot do these procedures on others. I have been asked via PM if I would do TCA CROSS or saline injections and/or TCA peels for people. I am sorry, I cannot. It is not that I do not want to, it is that my nursing license does not allow me to do so. If I were a nurse practitioner (isn't going to happen!), I could possibly get a doctor who is willing to sign off for me to do these procedures for patients, but as it stands now, I cannot. It is illegal for me to do so. Please do not ask.

Specific questions I will be more than happy to help out with, but Dee has already done an exceptional job of explaining the procedure along with her progress.

Oh excellent! Thank you!
This thread is coming together now. I was concerned about posting it in the first place because it's not something to take lightly, or jump blindly into. But, I still feel the information should be available!

*hugs Wynne*

[mary23]

Hi, i just wanted to let you guys know that i also went to Dr. Sire to get two dents that were caused by cortisone injections to go away. I know they are supossed to fill in naturally on its own but i couldnt wait any longer. Any way i started doing the treatments 2 months ago twice a month. my deepest indentation is gone the only thing you can see is the needle hole and now im working on the 2nd one which noone can see unless i tilt my head to certain angle under certain kind of lighting... either way that one is going away as well. And just to let you guys know like other procedures i didnt notice visible results until after the 3 or 4th injection.

[pyro123]

Dee

Check out my gallery pictures. I have two big scars and around them a lot of tiny ice pick scars, though they dont show at that angle.

I did subsiccion and is not as invasive as what u got which is punch excission. My suggestion is that you can combine both procedures for better, faster results which personally i never done. It also takes couples of trials of subsiccion to see results but along with saline, it can work faster.

[January31]

Dee, Did you have any bound down icepick/boxcar scars where there is almost complete tissue loss? If so, are they filling in also?

Jan31

[~ Dee]

Dee, Did you have any bound down icepick/boxcar scars where there is almost complete tissue loss? If so, are they filling in also?

Jan31

Yes, what pyro123 mentioned, I had punch excisions done. I did not heal well from mine. (-understatement) I had five or six done. What's really wild is before, you could not see where the stitches were. Now, as the scars are slowly filling in, I can find exactly where the stitches were placed. It has given me enough encouragement to keep going.


pyro123, I appreciate your advice. You are likely correct...The really attractive thing to me about the saline injections is that I can put on a light coat of makeup the following day, & nobody is the wiser. For me, that means no down time!
I'm not sure if guys would feel as comfortable as that if they are adverse to concealer... Also, I'm not sure if others would experience slight bruising? I only know that I have not.


Thanks mary23! That's great to hear! I appreciate your input, & good luck with that second area!

Hi, i just wanted to let you guys know that i also went to Dr. Sire to get two dents that were caused by cortisone injections to go away. I know they are supossed to fill in naturally on its own but i couldnt wait any longer. Any way i started doing the treatments 2 months ago twice a month. my deepest indentation is gone the only thing you can see is the needle hole and now im working on the 2nd one which noone can see unless i tilt my head to certain angle under certain kind of lighting... either way that one is going away as well. And just to let you guys know like other procedures i didnt notice visible results until after the 3 or 4th injection.

I recall it took about the same amount of injections for me to notice improvements as well. Soon, I'll try to come in and dig up as many explanations of how and why the saline works. I could write it now in my own layman's terms, but I doubt it will read as well.

[January31]

Dee, I just want to thank you so much for sharing this information! I, personally, have never heard of this, but am going to try it, along with doing my own TCA CROSS and perhaps needling.

What happened with your excisions? Did the doctor use layered stitches?

It's amazing that those of us who have suffered with scars for years are now finding so much success treating them ourselves!

[~ Dee]

Dee, I just want to thank you so much for sharing this information! I, personally, have never heard of this, but am going to try it, along with doing my own TCA CROSS and perhaps needling.

What happened with your excisions? Did the doctor use layered stitches?

It's amazing that those of us who have suffered with scars for years are now finding so much success treating them ourselves!

You're welcome!
What happened was that I had a plastic surgeon that did not respect & listen to his patients. They sent me home with these sort of tape bandages on my skin & told me not to wash my face. They told me to keep those bandages on as long as possible (about three to five days).
I tried to tell them that with skin this oily those bandages would not make it past the first night. Sure enough, they had all slid off overnight while I was sleeping. What followed were panicked phone calls from me, & bad advice from the girls at the desk. I was also a pack a day smoker back then.
I really blame us both. I should've had more self respect, & demanded better treatment..

[~ Dee]

Ok, I've searched for a decent medical explanation for what happens when you inject saline underneath scar tissue. I now give up.

Best as I can muster here...

Intradermal injection of saline under scar tissue stretches and breaks up scar tissue. Creating new fibroblast sites. The skin fills in the damage over time with new collagen. Semi permanent fillers do the same thing, but are much more costly.
That's the basic breakdown. If anyone cares to hazard a better explanation please feel free to submit it. While I can get a clear picture of it in my head, articulating it in clear scientific terms is more difficult for me.

I also try to stay on a high protein diet because I've read it aids in healing, but do not have info on hand to back that up. Another thing I typically use after a round of injections is copper peptides to aid in skin remodeling.
Two sources I'll post for you here-

http://www.skinbio.com/quickmatureskinrestore.html

http://www.dianayvonne.com/category/.13/

I do not believe these are necessary for the injections to work, but they may aid in the process.

[January31]

Dee, I agree with you - Always go by your gut instincts!!! I've noticed that some cosmetic doctors/PS and dermatologists have this habit, along with their staff, of treating their patients like backward children. You are so right about respecting yourself and demanding quality treatment.

Jan31

Dee, I just want to thank you so much for sharing this information! I, personally, have never heard of this, but am going to try it, along with doing my own TCA CROSS and perhaps needling.

What happened with your excisions? Did the doctor use layered stitches?

It's amazing that those of us who have suffered with scars for years are now finding so much success treating them ourselves!

You're welcome!
What happened was that I had a plastic surgeon that did not respect & listen to his patients. They sent me home with these sort of tape bandages on my skin & told me not to wash my face. They told me to keep those bandages on as long as possible (about three to five days).
I tried to tell them that with skin this oily those bandages would not make it past the first night. Sure enough, they had all slid off overnight while I was sleeping. What followed were panicked phone calls from me, & bad advice from the girls at the desk. I was also a pack a day smoker back then.
I really blame us both. I should've had more self respect, & demanded better treatment..

[used2bpretty]

I've thought about doing this for quite some time. Mentioned it to my derm about 2 years ago. At first, he said that he would do it if I signed a waiver. Unfortunately, he changed his mind. Given the frequency of lawsuits and such, I can't say that I blame him.

Fast forward to now. I'm a nursing student. I have quite a few IV bags of bacteriostatic saline that we had to buy last semester. Honestly, I wouldn't mind tryind out my intradermal technique either. I'd actually prefer doing it myself. After all, it is my skin. The big problem seems to be in finding needles/syringes. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

[~ Dee]

I've thought about doing this for quite some time. Mentioned it to my derm about 2 years ago. At first, he said that he would do it if I signed a waiver. Unfortunately, he changed his mind. Given the frequency of lawsuits and such, I can't say that I blame him.

Fast forward to now. I'm a nursing student. I have quite a few IV bags of bacteriostatic saline that we had to buy last semester. Honestly, I wouldn't mind tryind out my intradermal technique either. I'd actually prefer doing it myself. After all, it is my skin. The big problem seems to be in finding needles/syringes. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

It's so easy to search online for diabetic syringes. Just give it a try. & Good luck to you!