57 replies to this topic

[LaChesis]

ak87

I am sorry that all this stuff happened to you , I really am . But I just dont like the way the other girl always break it down on every threads.. I feel like she's just trying to keep everybody away from the drug by scaring them because she had a bad experience with it and she doesnt just say it once , she goes on every thread and talk about horror stories that can happen and she's almost like THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU TAKE ACCUTANE , you got to understand that for the majority of people they end up clear and have no more than dry lips and skin during the treatment. And almost everyone is aware of the possible side effects before taking it and that's their choice to take it or not. Telling your bad experience with accutane is one thing but trying to terrorize everyone is another and I feel like that's what that girl is trying to do.

[mrsraisinkain]

To Donnatkb

Stop talking to people as if they were stupid please? You're annoying with your never ending sarcasm and drama about accutane , every accutane thread I go , I see you talking about it as if it was the devil. Once you've given your opinion about the drug , just stop , we've all heard it a thousand times so get over it and if you dont want to then try to be nice to people. Some people like me took it and are perfectly fine. The only thing you're trying to do is scare people because you are frustrated that it didn't work out well for you. And just because some people dont share your opinion about the drug doesnt make them idiots.

AMEN!!! Ugh. It's just plain rude. She says, "It changes your brain chemistry and fucks you up." Wow. That conclusion must have taken a long time to research. Maybe she should publish it.

[moreGano]

To Donnatkb

Stop talking to people as if they were stupid please? You're annoying with your never ending sarcasm and drama about accutane , every accutane thread I go , I see you talking about it as if it was the devil. Once you've given your opinion about the drug , just stop , we've all heard it a thousand times so get over it and if you dont want to then try to be nice to people. Some people like me took it and are perfectly fine. The only thing you're trying to do is scare people because you are frustrated that it didn't work out well for you. And just because some people dont share your opinion about the drug doesnt make them idiots.

AMEN!!! Ugh. It's just plain rude. She says, "It changes your brain chemistry and fucks you up." Wow. That conclusion must have taken a long time to research. Maybe she should publish it.

It already has been published.

1.
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/14/5111.full

"The results demonstrate that the regions of the adult brain where cell proliferation is ongoing are highly sensitive to disruption by a clinical dose of 13-cis-RA."

2.
The study was subsequently published in the American Journal of Psychiatry in 2005. The full study can be downloaded here [Bremner 2005]. Briefly, Dr Bremner compared the effect of Accutane on brain function and compared the results to his published findings of the effects of depression on brain function. Brain function was measured before and after four months of treatment with Accutane (13 patients) and antibiotic (15 patients) using PET scans. Isotretinoin (but not antibiotic) treatment was associated with decreased brain metabolism in the orbitofrontal cortex, a brain area known to mediate symptoms of depression. This study suggests that “isotretinoin treatment is associated with changes in brain function�. The study also proved that Accutane must enter the brain and therefore can cause depression, even if it is an acne drug!

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/162/5/983.pdf

[donnatkb]

Of course taking accutane will result in anxiety.

But you have to consider that taking any medication, especially one with so much controversy surrounding it, will result in anxiety. You are anxious to see how its going to work.. if you are on this forum, you probably read so many various things that it makes you even more anxious.. you experience the worsening period, probably get even more freaked out, but its tough to say its the medication itself to blame.

I am going to a skin specialist to see if he thinks accutane is right for me, but im pretty much out of luck. I've tried everything from all the various creams to like 6 blue light therapies that didn't seem to give me a single % of improvement. Even cortizone injections seemed "immune" to my acne. So I'm pretty much prepared for the seemingly natural anxiety that will come along with the experience. I actually hope that going in with this in mind helps, so wish me the best of luck!

Good luck! Try and do it low dose it's your best choice!

To Donnatkb

Stop talking to people as if they were stupid please? You're annoying with your never ending sarcasm and drama about accutane , every accutane thread I go , I see you talking about it as if it was the devil. Once you've given your opinion about the drug , just stop , we've all heard it a thousand times so get over it and if you dont want to then try to be nice to people. Some people like me took it and are perfectly fine. The only thing you're trying to do is scare people because you are frustrated that it didn't work out well for you. And just because some people dont share your opinion about the drug doesnt make them idiots.

AMEN!!! Ugh. It's just plain rude. She says, "It changes your brain chemistry and fucks you up." Wow. That conclusion must have taken a long time to research. Maybe she should publish it.

Yes research is a grand thing little one! YOU should try it!

[bay1971]

Accutane has really stuffed up my head. I started having all these symptoms about 2 weeks before I finished accutane, and continue to suffer even after 5-6 months now.

Hello Skribby, I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. Very unfortunate for you being so young too! I experienced anxiety on the exact same time frame as you, I was fine for my whole course aside from the last two weeks and now I'm 5 months out and the anxiety continues. I actually fainted right as I started to ween off accutane and every since then anxiety. I am a 37 year old woman, so I know my body by now and this is definately not somatic. It's not in my head my physical symptoms of anxiety have been documented. I went to see a neurologist who is also a psychiatrist - he stated its entirely possible that the accutane may have made me more suseptible to anxiety, but he didnt say for sure. He prescribed "buspar" very light med for anxiety, I have not taken it as I've been trying to manage it with other natural means.

Acne is gone, but I too am left with and have been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. I have mixed feelings now about having done the course. It has gotten better the farther out I am from my last dose, and was not as severe as yours.

I can manage the anxiety and hoping it phases out, but I truly believe it's related somehow to the accutane. I NEVER had anxiety attacks for 37 years, and I've been through a lot of anxious meetings and family health situations. This is new and I attribute it even if just in part to the accutane. I asked my dermatologist about it and her nurse told me they have never had this happen, and it was probably the stock market or the Christmas holidays, which I was insulted by, my stock portfolio didnt cause my brain chemical balance to go off, accutane did. When I read your post I wanted to reply because if two people (or more) have experienced this on the same exact 2 week time frame, seems like its not a coincidence.

I'm wondering how you are doing now that you are further out from stopping. How are you?

[jmiri]

Wonder what happened to the OP? For the record, it IS all in his head, but only in that Accutane probably altered brain functioning. Patients who are already prone to depression are susceptible to psychiatric symptoms, but that doesn't mean "psychologically normal" ones are exempt from them. It sounds like Accutane altered the OP's brain activity, which can and does happen - like a user mentioned above me, it decrease activity in the orbitofrontal cortex, which mediates depression. If you don't have enough activity there to begin with, you're probably at risk.

I'm going on Accutane as soon as I'm prescribed it, but I don't underestimate the potential risks. Don't underestimate the people who are proliferating 'horror stories,' because they're all too likely. Accutane isn't just dry lips and skin, it's a freaking chemotherapy drug. It may also induce symptoms akin to Vitamin A psychosis. Stop trying to pass it off as something innocuous as ibuprofen, there's a reason most of the derms I've asked for it have cringed and told me to leave.

That said, I would kiss the feet of any derm who got me on this stuff immediately. With great rewards come enormous risks!

The drug is harmful to the brain for anyone that uses it

It is used in the treatment of brain cancer, and more.

Atleast you are well informed and know the risks, however there are side effects that develop AFTER therapy too when it's to late to change your mind, so be warned.

[jmiri]

I agree, and certainly realize that I may feel perfectly fine directly after treatment, then horribly regret my decision years along the line. You never know what's going to happen. I have, however, decided to go with a relatively low-dose treatment, and know that Accutane is about the only thing left that can treat my skin. Acne affects my life so negatively at this point that I'm finally looking into Accutane... I've been thinking about for years, but almost dismissed it as distant conjecture. In a way, it's probably the only option for people who literally get suicidal over their acne, but of course it's doubly dangerous for them.

But hey, a choice is a choice. Just know what you're getting into so you're not completely baffled if you end up shit creek.

Exactly,
You are one of the few and probably the only one on this website, that knows what you might get yourself into. There are few of those, these days. Even though I'm against the drug today in the treatment of acne, except for severely cystic acne on the face especially, not the body, in low doses of course, as well. I understand, if you are suicidal, so maybe accutane is for you.

Atleast, the low dose will minimize, and if something happens, you might not beat yourself up for it, anyway, since you were prepared. But did you try changing diet fully too? AND is your acne cystic?

But it may not need a 13-cis intervention, do you live in a hot sunny climate? If not, spend the money and go to mexico instead, and get a tan, which will reduce the acne.

If you still do take the accutane, make sure to get a good brain shrink included with the capsules, which would have been nice for me before accutane to give me self-esteem, rather than after, the problems with acne could have been solved, now the problems I have, can't be.

Though, the brain-damage is persistant, with no available treatment.

[maddy001]

Tanning does not help acne. It may provide temporary relieve but in the long run you are going to damage your skin. Read tha acne myths: http://www.acne.org/myths.html

Tanning gives rise to skin cancer so its not good to predispose yourself to it.

[jmiri]

Yes, tanning is bad for acne, in the long term, I agree. But not 1/10 of bad as Accutane in both the short and long-term, especially the effects on the brain, immune-system, and more. It's not good to predispose your self to diabetes, arthritis and more, because this is what Accutane does, by lowering adult stem cells systemically throughout the entire body. Believe me, tanning > Accutane, the less taken, the better. The latest science shows, a small amount of natural sunlight everyday, to produce vitamin D is healthy, anyways

[maddy001]

Yes, tanning is bad for acne, in the long term, I agree. But not 1/10 of bad as Accutane in both the short and long-term, especially the effects on the brain, immune-system, and more. It's not good to predispose your self to diabetes, arthritis and more, because this is what Accutane does, by lowering adult stem cells systemically throughout the entire body. Believe me, tanning > Accutane, the less taken, the better. The latest science shows, a small amount of natural sunlight everyday, to produce vitamin D is healthy, anyways

Do you even read what you are typing? You said tanning is bad for acne than why even bother suggesting it to him in the first place? He's looking for a suggestion to clear acne, not going on a holiday. Even if you want to dissuade him from taking accutane, can't you offer him any other ideas instead of telling him to pack his bag and head off to mexico for a tan??

Is tanning = a small amount of sunlight? when tanning equates to excessive exposure of sunlight

[jmiri]

Tanning means you get to much colour. Small amounts of sunlight is healthy, doesn't mean you need to tan. a very very slight 'pink' is not bad. Going to mexico for a week to tan, is not long-term tanning anyway, so will not cause any skin damage. And when she gets back she can expose herself to natural sunlight slowly, so the acne doesn't worsen. It will give her temporary relief, relax some, calm the hormones, eat fresh fruit and vegetables, which is full of vitamins and minerals, inturn, reduces acne. Minerals don't get rid of acne, but they have something to do with it. Plus, maybe the less stressful environment in the carribean can help rethink whether to take the drug or not. And yes, I can offer her different alternative treatments to try, but I do not know what she has tried already, need to know that first.

[maddy001]

Tanning means you get to much colour. Small amounts of sunlight is healthy, doesn't mean you need to tan. a very very slight 'pink' is not bad. Going to mexico for a week to tan, is not long-term tanning anyway, so will not cause any skin damage. And when she gets back she can expose herself to natural sunlight slowly, so the acne doesn't worsen. It will give her temporary relief, relax some, calm the hormones, eat fresh fruit and vegetables, which is full of vitamins and minerals, inturn, reduces acne. Minerals don't get rid of acne, but they have something to do with it. Plus, maybe the less stressful environment in the carribean can help rethink whether to take the drug or not. And yes, I can offer her different alternative treatments to try, but I do not know what she has tried already, need to know that first.

Sun exposure and tan are 2 different words to be used. Tanning equals to exposing yourself to the sun till you turn bronze and that requires a long time. Who ever says tan will not cause skin damage. Every time you go for a tan, you are already generating oxidative stress in your skin due to the UVA radiation which in turn will cause the skin to start producing melanin as a defence mechanism to protect itself against DNA damage. That's why you turn bronze.


Quote"But it may not need a 13-cis intervention, do you live in a hot sunny climate? If not, spend the money and go to mexico instead, and get a tan, which will reduce the acne."

I'm sorry if I sound sarcastic but you need to phrase your words properly especially your first post( 5 posts above this) otherwise people will get mistaken. First you said small amount of sunlight is healthy and need not tan, then you said to head off to mexico to tan. Um what???

I'm going to stop here, I don't want to flame up this thread by deviating from the topic of this thread.

Duchamp: Good luck on your course. Accutane isn't that dangerous if you are well monitored by a good derm(One who is sympathetic and knows accutane well) and with your regular bloodtests. It would be a good idea to find someone close like your parents or guardian to monitor your moods and symptoms(should you have any) and listen to your body if it sends out bad signals , stop medication immediately and consult your derm. That should help prevent a lot of risks. Should you need any help, feel free to PM me, I will be happy to help.

[jmiri]

I would much rather have some slight oxidative stress on my skin from a bit of excessive sun exposure, than DNA oxidative damage by taking Accutane, shown in this study below. Wouldn't you?

http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10...5/CCLM.2005.204


*moderator edit, personal remark removed*

[Christina ~]

Im sorry for the way you feel. I know how you feel, and all other cliches. (but cliches are only cliches cos they're true!!)
But how do you know you got like this cos of accutane? Maybe it just gave you something to blame it on. Anxiety ISNT one of the side effects of accutance. A side effect of acne sure, but not accuatane.

anxiety IS an effect of accutane. please see link below. Please don't post up information that isn't well researched.

http://biopsychiatry.com/serotonin/isotretinoin.html

or read the article here.

Depression Reflects A Genetic Trait:
Serotonin Study
New research has found that a drug used to treat severe forms of acne reduces the availability of the chemical serotonin, low levels of which have been linked to aggression and clinical depression.

In a study published in the journal Experimental Biology and Medicine, scientists reveal a potential mechanism that might link the drug Roaccutane (Accutane in the US) to reported cases of depression in some patients taking the medication.

The researchers had previously reported that the drug caused depressive behaviour in mice but, until now, the mechanism by which this might happen was unknown.

Using cells cultured in a laboratory, scientists from the University of Bath (UK) and University of Texas at Austin (USA) were able to monitor the effect of the drug on the chemistry of the cells that produce serotonin.

They found that the cells significantly increased production of proteins and cell metabolites that are known to reduce the availability of serotonin.

This, says scientists, could disrupt the process by which serotonin relays signals between neurons in the brain and may be the cause of depression-related behaviour.

“Serotonin is an important chemical that relays signals from nerve cells to other cells in the body,� said Dr Sarah Bailey from the Department of Pharmacy & Pharmacology at the University of Bath.

“In the brain it is thought to play an important role in the regulation of a range of behaviours, such as aggression, anger and sleep. Low levels of serotonin have been linked to depression, as well as bipolar and anxiety disorders.

“Many medications aimed at treating depression seek to increase levels of serotonin to help overcome these problems," continued Dr Bailey. “Our findings suggest that Roaccutane might disrupt the way serotonin is produced and made available to the cells.

“This could result in problems associated with low levels of serotonin, which might include depression. We are currently looking into this mechanism in more detail.�

the key word is LINKED TO. there is a correlation not a CAUSATION. it means in some cases there can be inferences drawn.

it does not mean in all cases accutane causes psychiatric symptoms.

use your head...if it did the FDA would be forced to take it off shelves or patients would be mandated to have psychotherapy during their treatment.

yeesh.

[mx123]

Christina there clearly is a causation:

Evidence about Accutane’s propensity to cause psychiatric problems had been building up all throughout the 80’s and 90’s, but nobody, not even the dermatologists were talking about it or acknowledging that it was happening. Despite all of the accumulating evidence, dermatologists announced to everyone that there was absolutely no link between Accutane and psychiatric side effects. A shocking report appeared in The Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology back in 1987 that was titled “Hypervitaminosis A syndrome: a paradigm of retinoid side effects.� (J Am Acad Dermatol 1987;16: 1027-39) I guess none of the dermatologists bothered to read their own journal because this report should have raised some serious red flags about the connection between retinoids and psychiatric toxicity. In this report it says that physicians utilizing retinoids should be aware that in the past few decades patients have been committed to psychiatric hospitals for severe depression and schizophrenia when mental changes were due to hypervitaminosis A. The report also says that investigative trials of new retinoids have shown how important it is to become familiar with hypervitaminosis A syndrome because so many side effects associated with new retinoids (such as Accutane) have previously been encountered in patients with chronic hypervitaminosis A.

On the Accutane label it even says ‘ May cause serious mental health problems ‘
‘Retinoids modulate gene expression in the brain in a broad spectrum and have effects on several neurochemical systems, including the dopamine system, which has been hypothesized to play a role in dysregulation of mood and emotion;
• High levels of the enzyme involved in retinoid synthesis, aldehyde dehydrogenaseare found in mesostriatal and mesolimbic dopamine pathways;
• Dopamine mesocortical pathways involve release of dopamine transmitter in theorbitofrontal cortex and other parts of the prefrontal cortex;
• Administration of retinoids causes changes in dopamine receptors, while genetic mutations of retinoid receptors are associated with deficits in dopamine receptors as well as mesolimbic dopamine functioning;
• Retinoids are associated with the inhibition of neurogenesis in the hippocampus, a brain area with connections to the prefrontal cortical areas, including the orbitofrontal.’

Hoffman-La Roche has always continued to deny that Accutane can cause psychiatric side effects like depression and suicide, but they do not acknowledge the fact that vitamin A toxicity has been consistently linked to mental illness for centuries. In 1597, European explorer Gerrit de Veer spent the winter in Nova Zembla. His diary of the experience revealed how he and the rest of his men became “gravely ill and feared for their lives� after eating polar-bear liver.
250 years later, in 1856, the Arctic explorer Elisha Kane and his crew experienced extreme fatigue, drowsiness, irritability, headache, bone pain, peeling skin, vertigo, and psychosis after they consumed polar-bear liver, which was later determined to be poisonous because it contains lethal amounts of vitamin A. One-half pound of polar bear liver will deliver about 9,000,000 IU of vitamin A to your diet, an extremely lethal dose that will make all your skin peel off before you die. Fatal cases typically end with full-body skin loss, liver damage, delirium, hemorrhage, and coma. This danger of toxicity resulting from the ingestion of bear liver has long been known by indigenous Inuit people of the Arctic regions, but many Western explorers and hunters had no knowledge and ended up learning the hard way. A common practice among the Inuit is to bury polar bear livers deep under the ice or toss them into the sea in order to prevent their sled dogs from chowing down their last meal. Polar-bear liver contains about 1 million IU of vitamin A per ounce (the RDA for adult humans is only 5000 IU), which is why if you decide to snack on it, the top layer of skin on your hands and other places all over your body will come off in giant sheets. Not surprisingly, peeling of the skin on the palms and soles and skin coming off on various places of the body is also a potential side effect of Accutane. An article titled “The Vitamin A Content and Toxicity of Bear and Seal Liver� dated 1943 described what happened to these explorers after they ingested polar bear liver. The side effects of eating polar bear liver are very similar to the side effects of Accutane.

The Vitamin A Content and Toxicity of Bear and Seal Liver
http://www.biochemj.org/bj/037/0166/0370166.pdf

The abstract of Dr. James O’Donnell’s article titled “Polar Hysteria: An Expression of Hypervitaminosis A� states,

“Isotretinoin (Accutane) is a drug closely related to the chemical structure of Vitamin A. The pharmacology and toxicology of these two retinoids is similar enough to warrant comparison. Accutane is a powerful drug which its manufacturer, Roche, indicates is limited for severe recalcitrant nodular acne. This potency is also reflected in Accutane's well-known ability to produce severe birth defects if taken during pregnancy. Less well-known is the risk of this lipid soluble chemical to affect the Central Nervous System. Reports of intracranial hypertension, depression, and suicidal ideation with Accutane use have prompted an examination of this serious and life threatening potential. Though Roche has added a warning to its product label for signs of depression and suicidal ideation, this product is being overprescribed for all forms of acne, including mild cases and moderate acne that have not been treated with alternative medications, which have a lesser risk of depression and suicide. There is no contesting that this drug is effective at clearing up the most severe forms of acne, but the public must be informed of its proper, limited indication for use; depression and suicide can follow in patients with no prior history of psychiatric symptoms or suicide attempts.�

Polar Hysteria: An Expression of Hypervitaminosis A
http://www.americantherapeutics.com/pt/re/...#33;8091!-1

Hypervitaminosis A and Fractures
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/4/347

Most animal liver is safe to eat (for people who have never taken Accutane), but it should be noted that bear, seal, and husky livers are not safe for anybody. In 1913, the Swiss explorer and skiing champion Xavier Mertz embarked on an Antarctic expedition with the Australian Sir Douglas Mawson and Lieutenant Edward Ninnis. While attempting to cross the Ninnis Glacier, Ninnis fell into a crevasse, along with six dogs, the tent and most of the supplies. With only a few days worth of rations left and 315 miles from the main base, Mertz and Mawson now faced the impossible challenge of getting back to safety without sufficient food. They began to eat the livers of their husky sled dogs and over a few weeks’ duration both were poisoned, experiencing dryness of the nose, mouth, eyes, cracked lips, irritability, hair loss, fatigue, and loss of all skin on their legs, hands, feet, genitals, “skin coming off whole body� according to Mawson’s diary. Even the thick skin on the soles of their feet came off, leaving areas of the underlying tissue bloody and exposed. Mertz consumed more liver and eventually became fatally poisoned after developing severe stomach pains, diarrhea, and going insane. The dreadful details of Mertz and Mawson’s ordeal can be read in the British Medical Journal articles “Man’s best friend?� and “Vitamin A and Sir Douglas Mawson.� Several parallels to the side effects of Accutane are exceedingly apparent.

Man’s best friend?
http://student.bmj.com/issues/02/05/life/158.php

Vitamin A and Sir Douglas Mawson
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerende...ageindex=1#page

Acne drug has serious side effects
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/h...tane/index.html

Here's a quote from the above article describing the controversy over the psychiatric side effects,

"Hoffmann-La Roche says there is no causal relationship between Accutane and depression or suicide. Experts point out that no one factor causes suicide and that a high percentage of Accutane users -teens and young adults- are already more likely to get depressed. But some doctors say there's plenty of evidence to support a link between Accutane and depression and suicide. And they argue that evidence of the link dates back to Arctic explorers of the 19th century. Diaries tell of how some sailors suffered polar madness. Experts today say it was from eating polar bear liver, which is full of vitamin A. In large doses Vitamin A can cause brain toxicity, seizures, and behavioral changes. Accutane is a derivative of vitamin A."

[Kelli1982]

I also am suffering from anxiety after Accutane but do not regret taking it. I am also on Adderall which can also cause anxiety so I cant really say. It seemed to come about after I stopped the tane though. I am now on zoloft for it and have stopped the adderall until I go back to school.

[columbus]

Only took Accutane for two weeks and during that two weeks I became constipated without any bowel movement at all! I had an incredible aggressive mood swing, and ended up getting off the accutane. Ever since, ive struggled with intense anxiety related to nothing I can wrap my head around- but this anxiety has also contributed to insomnia for the past 6 months. Anxiety is very real- and I never experienced anything like it before taking accutane. Due to my continued chronic constipation- I've researched so much to find a solution:

The limit in serotonin may affect your stomach (where 80% of the body's serotonin is utilized) causing mind-related stomach issues, hints the connection between anxiety and constipation. To treat this, acne, AND anxiety I highly recommend probiotics, a precursor to serotonin (less side effects and over the counter) called 5-HTP, and also consider taking wellbutrin for anxiety. If you have stomach issues, wellbutrin may actually make them worse.

I know how real the anxiety can be and can affect your life and sleep patterns, and I totally believe you and understand about the anxiety post-accutane, it's scary stuff and you feel like you have knots in the mind but can't find any reasonable loose ends to untie. Assume: you don't have any, and don't tug around in there thinking you do have something to fix- you may worry yourself even more or open up scars you never needed to! Aside from medicine- exercise and eat raw foods, organic if you can, and don't drink coffee or alcohol until you figure out the anxiety. Good luck Missy!


(My background- current college undergraduate at a prolific university on scholarship, with incredible family behind me. I'm not brilliant, but I've had a very successful academic life and social life, and even toured internationally as a singer/songwriter. I say all of this to reemphasize my past stability and abilities- which have now been compromised immediately after taking the tane.')

[chaseryder]

My story is similar to many of yours. Don't have the time nor the pAtience to go in detail... Any updates on your lives? Any successes?