16 replies to this topic

[Addie]

A cool study for those who have a thing for lactic acid. It actually discusses lactic acid's antibacterial activity as its benefit in treating acne, not it's exfoliation abilities.

[jkom]

Definitely cool. Thanks for posting it. My own experiences support these results as well. I was perfectly clear back when I was using Eucerin's Skin Renewal moisturizer with lactic acid. I think the moisturizer was even a 5% concentration as in this study. Ever since it was discontinued I have had intermittent breakouts and excessive flakiness (I've been using Dan's regimen). Only until recently when I started using glycolic acid have I achieved some degree of consistency.

I would really like to get back to lactic acid, but I'm not sure which product I want to use yet. It would be ideal if I could buy a simple aqueous solution of it like the one used in this study. Can't find anything like that though. Let me know what you're using.

EDIT: I also like hearing stuff like "the age of at least 25 years when the patient spontaneously stops developing further acne lesions." At 23, I've noticed a remarkable decline in my mild acne over the past few years, and still hope to grow out of it.

[Addie]

I'm using Lac-Hydrin Five. It has 5% like the study and Eucerin Skin Renewal, but I've never used the Eucerin, so I can't compare. There's no sunscreen. 3 of the ingredients are glycerin, petrolatum, and squalane, though, which is probably why it seems to chill out my sensitive skin.

Edit: I'm also 23 and hoping the 25 thing is true.

[jkom]

Yeah LH5 is probably at the top of my list right now. I've tried it before, but it didn't control flakes or moisturize well enough for me to stay on it (bp makes my skin pretty dry). I've thought about combining it with other things such as jojoba and cetaphil, but that might dilute the acid too much. I currently use a combination of jojoba, cetaphil, and glycolic acid cream by alpha hydrox, and that works well for me. In fact, my skin is stable enough to prevent me from experimenting at the moment. I will try to make the transition eventually though. Glycolic acid offers benefits similar to lactic acid, but the more I read, the more I think lactic acid is superior. It is definitely not as irritating.

As for the age/acne relationship, I see 25 as the magic number quite a lot. The highest I've ever seen for most people growing out of it is 30. Hopefully we are not in the approx. 5% of cases where acne persists.

[willow569]

Its an interesting idea (that lactic can be antibacterial, as well as exfoliative). I use Vivant's Derm A Gel which contains lactic acid and vitamin A propionate - and have had great results from it.

I do have a couple of problems with the study though. First, about half of the subjects dropped out before the end of the study - that's a pretty bad attrition rate for a research study. I wonder why they dropped out - maybe their acne didn't improve or got worse? You never know about those who don't complete the study. Also, the subjects were on oral antibiotics when needed, so I am not sure how the researchers can distinguish the antibacterial effects of the antibiotics versus the effects of the lactic acid. Too bad they didn't use a group that got no oral antibiotics and just the lactic acid. Wonder how good the effects would have been without the oral antibiotics?

It would be interesting to try and repeat this with a better study design though. I do really like the effects of lactic acid!!

[Addie]

Yeah, I wasn't able to handle glycolic products.

I actually mix aloe with the LH5 to lighten it. I don't think anything can dry out my greaseball self.

I'm sitting next to my 27 year-old boyfriend with acne . . . hopefully I'm luckier than him.

[jkom]

Its an interesting idea (that lactic can be antibacterial, as well as exfoliative). I use Vivant's Derm A Gel which contains lactic acid and vitamin A propionate - and have had great results from it.

I do have a couple of problems with the study though. First, about half of the subjects dropped out before the end of the study - that's a pretty bad attrition rate for a research study. I wonder why they dropped out - maybe their acne didn't improve or got worse? You never know about those who don't complete the study. Also, the subjects were on oral antibiotics when needed, so I am not sure how the researchers can distinguish the antibacterial effects of the antibiotics versus the effects of the lactic acid. Too bad they didn't use a group that got no oral antibiotics and just the lactic acid. Wonder how good the effects would have been without the oral antibiotics?

It would be interesting to try and repeat this with a better study design though. I do really like the effects of lactic acid!!

Yeah these are good points. The fact that only "two patients did not require systemic antibiotics at all throughout the study period" is kind of disappointing. They don't have control groups either... Ah well, it still seems to work for me. I'll probably end up trying that Derm-A gel too. Thanks for bringing that up.

[Addie]

Its an interesting idea (that lactic can be antibacterial, as well as exfoliative). I use Vivant's Derm A Gel which contains lactic acid and vitamin A propionate - and have had great results from it.

I do have a couple of problems with the study though. First, about half of the subjects dropped out before the end of the study - that's a pretty bad attrition rate for a research study. I wonder why they dropped out - maybe their acne didn't improve or got worse? You never know about those who don't complete the study. Also, the subjects were on oral antibiotics when needed, so I am not sure how the researchers can distinguish the antibacterial effects of the antibiotics versus the effects of the lactic acid. Too bad they didn't use a group that got no oral antibiotics and just the lactic acid. Wonder how good the effects would have been without the oral antibiotics?

It would be interesting to try and repeat this with a better study design though. I do really like the effects of lactic acid!!

Those were points that jumped out at me, too.

[Eryka]

Rarely do I see posts devoted to lactic acid so, I'm going to pose my question here:

The DKR pretty much killed my bacterial based acne and now I'm dealing with a million whiteheads and sebum plugs. I just started a lactic acid treatment little under 3 weeks ago. I see improvement and a lot of junk has come out of my skin however . . .

Some of these plugs leave some dark holes that take forever to close. Also it's bringing up blackheads and such in places I've never had before. My skin is certainly not worse off but, it seems that if I could scrape the first layer or two of my skin off it would look better. (I won't mind you but, that's the theory.)

I'm just wondering if anyone else has gone through the dirty skin syndrome and how long did it take to go away?

Thanks

[Addie]

Rarely do I see posts devoted to lactic acid so, I'm going to pose my question here:

The DKR pretty much killed my bacterial based acne and now I'm dealing with a million whiteheads and sebum plugs. I just started a lactic acid treatment little under 3 weeks ago. I see improvement and a lot of junk has come out of my skin however . . .

Some of these plugs leave some dark holes that take forever to close. Also it's bringing up blackheads and such in places I've never had before. My skin is certainly not worse off but, it seems that if I could scrape the first layer or two of my skin off it would look better. (I won't mind you but, that's the theory.)

I'm just wondering if anyone else has gone through the dirty skin syndrome and how long did it take to go away?

Thanks

I just read your question on the DKR forum, too. I think lactic acid does this slowly to me, so it's not very noticeable. Over a month on lactic acid and it was still going on, though. When I tried glycolic acid, the results were closer to what you're talking about with the addition of heavy peeling. (I got dandruff in my eyebrows that just wouldn't let up, too. )
I quit experimenting with glycolic after about a month when it became apparent it was causing irritation on top of all that. I'd think, in your case, maybe try to stick it out awhile more, unless it's causing irritation? (I just assumed this phenomenon was a sort of IB, btw.)

[Addie]

Its an interesting idea (that lactic can be antibacterial, as well as exfoliative). I use Vivant's Derm A Gel which contains lactic acid and vitamin A propionate - and have had great results from it.

I do have a couple of problems with the study though. First, about half of the subjects dropped out before the end of the study - that's a pretty bad attrition rate for a research study. I wonder why they dropped out - maybe their acne didn't improve or got worse? You never know about those who don't complete the study. Also, the subjects were on oral antibiotics when needed, so I am not sure how the researchers can distinguish the antibacterial effects of the antibiotics versus the effects of the lactic acid. Too bad they didn't use a group that got no oral antibiotics and just the lactic acid. Wonder how good the effects would have been without the oral antibiotics?

It would be interesting to try and repeat this with a better study design though. I do really like the effects of lactic acid!!

I was looking at the Derm A Gel online. Do you know what percentage the lactic acid comes out to?

[xxy]

dr hauschka clarifying toner has lactic acid in it... really good stuff

[timmoore]

it is diffuclt to find lactic acid alone. serums. you have to find some one who does lctic cid peels and prabably dilute it to the streght you want. most manager skin comapnies only do glyocilci acid.

anyone knwo any good lactic acid serums, besides lachydra 12%.

plus iam curious if any studies proving lactic decreases p.acnes.

[Wynne]

it is diffuclt to find lactic acid alone. serums. you have to find some one who does lctic cid peels and prabably dilute it to the streght you want. most manager skin comapnies only do glyocilci acid.

anyone knwo any good lactic acid serums, besides lachydra 12%.

plus iam curious if any studies proving lactic decreases p.acnes.

I found a lactic acid peel solution at Platinum Skin Care. They have recently revamped their website and it doesn't seem as informative as it was. Perhaps I should do some more looking to see if their peel information is still there. Hmm.

http://platinumskincare.com/lacticacid50peel.aspx

Oh, found their lovely directions including warnings:

Lactic Acid Peel Directions 50%

This is a wonderful peel for those dealing with aging and pigmented skin. Lactic Acid will exfoliate the outer surface of the skin and encourage new cell turnover. It is a natural humectant, pulling moisture from the collagen levels to the surface of skin. It is an excellent acid choice for dry and sundamaged skin. This treatment is relatively non-irritating with very little, if any, down time. Our Lactic acid peel has been enhanced with a "skin lightening" and " anti-aging" coctail of herbal remedies.

Usage
Lactic is a mild acid and can be applied 1-2X per week to keep skin moist and exfoliated.



*To determine sensitivity, perform a patch test (behind ear) and check in 24 hours for excessive irritation.

Read all precautions before beginning!

DIRECTIONS

1. READ ALL PRECAUTIONS ON REVERSE SIDE

2. Thoroughly cleanse all areas that are to be treated with a deep cleanser. *The 10% Glycolic is ideal.

3. Gently wipe alcohol on all areas to be treated.

4. Get a timer and set it for desired peel time. (see chart on reverse side).

5. Pour a small amount of peel solution into medicine cup.

6. Fold a guaze pad in half and dip into solution. Wipe any excess off on cup.

7. Apply peel in a HORIZONTAL motion across the entire face/neck.

8. Apply peel again, this time in a VERTICAL motion across the entire face/neck. *This is to ensure the best coverage possible. (The cheek, lip and nose areas are the most sensitive, so they should be done last to avoid excess irritation—Avoid eye and mucus membrane areas). *Your skin should not be dripping wet! Just wipe it on like you would any toner. *A stinging/itching sensation is normal when using the Glycolic Peel Solution. Watch for any redness and neutralize acid with a dab of water if necessary.

9. Rinse well for 2-3 minutes with cool water ***Make sure no trace of acid is left on your skin.

10. Pat skin dry and follow with a plain moisturizer, Hyaluronic 100 or Emu oil are excellent choices. (Now is not the time for any active ingredients a.k.a. glycolic, retinol etc..)

11. *Make sure that you use a sunscreen with an SPF of at least 30. (Because this product may make your skin more sensitive to the sun, be certain you have adequate sunscreen protection while using this product and for a week afterwards). *per FDA

12. Repeat next week on the same "spa" day!

Q&A

1. I think the solution I purchased was too strong for me. How can I lessen the %?

You can lessen the percentage by mixing in either pure aloe gel or purified water (in a separate container) by following the formula 2/3 Peel solution 1/3 Aloe or Water.

2. I think the solution I purchased was too weak for me. What can I do? EXTENDING TIMES!

If you have reached your maximum time, and you still feel you need more, don’t waste your solution. *You can apply the solution in layers to keep it active. Apply solution, wait 2 minutes and reapply again. This will drop the pH level back down so you can leave it on for longer! You may apply again if needed.

3. I do not see peeling, is it working?

Just because you do not see any visible flaking does not mean the peel isn’t working. Most of the loosened skin comes off during your daily cleansings. If you skin “feels” smoother, it is working. Lactic is meant to moisturize more than flake.

4. How many peels will I get from my bottle?

2oz. = 45 peels, 4oz. = 91 peels (average 20 drops pr peel).



ü If you have any medical questions as to whether you should be performing these peels...Consult your physician or dermatologist before you proceed!


Recommended Time Schedule


Treatment 1 1-3 minutes

Treatment 2 1-5 minutes*


*If you are an EXPERIENCED peel user you may extend the times, at your own risk, for a deeper peel.

*See directions in F.A.Q #2 to strengthen peel/ leave on for longer!

*It may take 2-3 days to notice the results of your peel. There may be more color on your sunspots for the first few days, until the new skin cells grow. You will get results! Be patient, and let your skin rejuvenate itself!


Precautions
ü Do not apply Lactic Acid if you have an allergy to DAIRY products.

ü Check with your doctor before use if you are pregnant.

ü Never apply another transdermal product during a chemical peel (No Emu oil until after you have rinsed thoroughly!)

ü Never use a chemical peel if you have been/are-using accutane in the past 6 months.

ü Never apply a peel after another facial exfoliating product (scrubs of any type).

ü Stop using Retin-a at least 3 days before performing a peel.

ü Keep the Peel Solution at least a quarter of an inch away from the eyes and mucus membranes.

ü If severe skin irritation occurs, remove the product by rinsing with cool water and consult a physician.

ü Do not apply to irritated, sensitive skin or skin with open wounds or after extraction.

ü Do not expose your face to the sun for 24 hours before or after the application of the chemical Peel. Then use a minimum SPF 30 on a daily basis.

ü Do not apply the Peel to skin that has been waxed or shaved within 24 Hours.

ü Slight reddening of the skin may occur for a limited period of time especially with sensitive skin types.

Agreement: I understand and acknowledge that I am under no obligation to follow any recommendations made by the seller. I understand the seller does not treat illnesses and any information received is intended to help me make an informed decision. I assume the risk of any adverse effects or consequences resulting from the use or misuse of any of the suggestions, preparations, or procedures. I hereby release, hold harmless, and discharge the seller and all of its officers, employees, agents and suppliers from all claims of damages, demands, or actions whatsoever in any manner arising from or growing out of my participation.

*Misuse of this product can cause injury or burns! Always follow directions exactly! Do not extend peeling times past 15 minutes! Used as directed, our peels and products are safe and effective. By using this product you agree that Platinum Skin Care and www.platinumskincare.com or Platinum Skin Care Inc. assumes no responsibility for misuse of this product or for any consequences or injuries as a result of using any of our products. KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN! Due to the pharmaceutical nature of these products, all sales are final. 1-586-598-6093

[willow569]

Its an interesting idea (that lactic can be antibacterial, as well as exfoliative). I use Vivant's Derm A Gel which contains lactic acid and vitamin A propionate - and have had great results from it.

I do have a couple of problems with the study though. First, about half of the subjects dropped out before the end of the study - that's a pretty bad attrition rate for a research study. I wonder why they dropped out - maybe their acne didn't improve or got worse? You never know about those who don't complete the study. Also, the subjects were on oral antibiotics when needed, so I am not sure how the researchers can distinguish the antibacterial effects of the antibiotics versus the effects of the lactic acid. Too bad they didn't use a group that got no oral antibiotics and just the lactic acid. Wonder how good the effects would have been without the oral antibiotics?

It would be interesting to try and repeat this with a better study design though. I do really like the effects of lactic acid!!

I was looking at the Derm A Gel online. Do you know what percentage the lactic acid comes out to?

I don't know what the percentage is. It defintiely has a decent amount though, because it has that slightly sour milk smell to it! Its nice because it is combined with vitamin a proprionate, which is also great for treating acne.

[Addie]

Mmm. Yep. I know that smell. It does look like a nice combo of ingredients.

[timmoore]

vivant only has 2% lactic dermagel.

i prefr looking for a lactic acid alone serum in the 5-10% range wit ph 3-3.5