30 replies to this topic

[Joe Zit]

"I believe that in the case of acne, to try to take a scientific approach is going to cause you to go to a dermatologist and have antibiotic after antibiotic OR take accutane, which is so strong that they make girls sign a contract promising that they wouldn't get pregnant because it would make their baby have horrible birth defects. Not to mention, you have serious liver damage and can get depressed and suicidal. My boyfriend took it and it had effects on him like he was on pcp, he was breaking glass windows with his bear hand. And he's not like that. He's a really gentle, happy, life of the party guy. (His acne is cured, but his family is now really sensitive to any anger he expresses because they remember those accutane outbursts. It's like that period of time added an invincibly angry side to his personality and those memories are permanant.) " healedandanonymous

healedandanonymous:

The scientific method has given us the greatest advances in the history of the world with regard to both the cure and effective treatment of many diseases including acne (I don't think that acne can be cured, but it can be arrested, just my opinion). Your boyfriend's acne was arrested/cured...ergo sum, the treatment was a success.

Accutane CAN have negative side effects, not WILL have negative side effects. It is not inevitable that accutane is going to cause extreme behavior anymore than it is inevitable that one's liver is going to be destroyed. I am in total agreement with you that it is not for pregnant women or for women who plan on getting pregnant in the near future, but it is certainly not the only prescription medication on the market where that applies. Pregnant women shouldn't smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol either.

One question for you: During your boyfriend's seemingly bizarre behavior, was medical intervention sought, and did the diagnosis conclude that his behavior was due to accutane, or is this merely layperson opinion?

Acne is a mysterious and troubling disease that we don't have the complete answer for. but thousands of people have had success with accutance and anti-biotic regimens, many claim success with Dan's Regimen, still others with Pro-Activ and we have success stories coming from BFG's regimen.

You have accumulated a catalog of things that don't work for you, which doesn't mean that they wouldn't work for someone else or haven't worked for someone else. You can't say conclusively if accutane would work for you because you fear side effects that you may or may not have (since you are female, again, you might not wish to take it because of the pregnancy issue which is a very legitimate reason).

My impression is that you are a nice person who wants to share something you think will help others, and that is a very noble goal...but please dear poster, you are asking us to accept what you say on faith alone, and again, I would say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What I find so interesting is your complete ability to discard conventional medical protocol, and then accept a treatment that is essentially faith based. (faith based in the sense that you don't know how it works but believe it will) How do you know in the long run that what you are advocating isn't harmful? Can you prove it? You claim to educate us, but you are giving us junk science.

All the best, I wish you well,

Joe Zit

[maddy001]

I'm surprised that probiotics actually work when they are more for the gut rather then the skin. Probiotics are important for the colonization of gut bacteria that help produce vitamins and minerals essential for the body. No, gut bacteria do not really help digest food, its your stomach and intestinal enzymes that are doing the job. The most that bacteria does is breakdown any leftover food not digested by the intestines to produce minerals and water. And on the contrary, it is the more food that is digested the more toxins are released especially proteins which produces the most toxins out of all essential molecules. Toxins are cleared by the liver so people with stronger liver tend to clear the toxins faster and so have less acne

As for the thread starter, acne is not an internal infection, its an external infection because p.acnes live on the human skin and crawls its way into the skin pores thus causing acne. Why do antibiotics work even though it is taken internally? That's because of blood. After being metabolize in the liver, it floats in the blood and since all cells need oxyen which is carried in blood, the antibiotic is able to go to the skin cells and do its thing. Antibiotics are not bad actually, they are the cure for numerous bacterial infections out there. And I doubt that the antibiotics will kill all the good bacteria in the body, antibiotics are actually quite specifc in their job depending on their function. And I also like to add that some people develop resistance so fast is because they don't take the antibiotics as instructed. Some miss doses that allows the resistance to build up faster then it should have.

Last point there, I think its pretty irresponsible to be taking the fish or horse antibiotic without a prescription. Is he a doctor? Also even if the antibiotic is the exact same thing, the dose and the makeup of the drug may be different and that is very dangerous.

[BrenOne]

Good post. I admit to being mainly clueless about how it all happens biologically. But what I was wondering was how probiotics could have a positive effect on acne - if the really do - or if there's been any study done into it? It evidently doesn't help everyone anyway.

[A Holy Man]

Kombucha is pretty nasty tasting. Are pills of probiotics (what are prebotics) reliable ways to get that kind of good party going inside your body? Any other means (don't say yogurt because dairy consistently causes gushers for me) of getting these probiotics accepted into the body?

[Wynne]

Kombucha is pretty nasty tasting. Are pills of probiotics (what are prebotics) reliable ways to get that kind of good party going inside your body? Any other means (don't say yogurt because dairy consistently causes gushers for me) of getting these probiotics accepted into the body?

There are many probiotic supplements available at health food and drugstores. Some must be refrigerated.

I have only thus far seen anecdotal evidence about the efficacy of probiotics for acne.

However, I am not willing to totally discount it. Doctors themselves are getting more with the research now and are actually prescribing probiotics for people who have celiac disease, lactose intolerance, Clostridium difficile infection and prophylactically for antibiotic usage.

The whole body works together in concert. I am also not willing to discount the effect of proper digestion on the entire body system and concomitant skin problems/disorders related to poor digestion. Those nutrients that are lost; well, they would benefit the skin, too. That's my take on probiotics, digestion and acne.

Remember, there's SO much that we do not know and have not studied.

The mind body connection is also amazingly strong and powerful. That needs more research, too.

And swordth: Excellent posts with completely accurate information. Thanks for contributing. Stick around!

[lul]

I like to take these pills too, I was doing it to stay regular mostly, but I guess I'l start taking them more regularly.

http://www.vnfnutrition.com/phpshop/assett...4754e1fac21.jpg

3 billion probiotic cells per pill. It's the brand I use.

[princess_nannan]

I agree with the probiotics...

The protocol derms have (it mystefies me ) is to prescribe round after round of powerful oral antibiotics for mild acne, most of which are ineffective on today's youth. Generations of over-prescribing create another challenging problem... the fact that p.acnes bacteria have become resistant to the majority of prescription meds for acne out there.

Maybe I don't have all the facts, but it seems irresponsible for derms to prescribe young people high doses of doxycycline, tetracycline, and the others. It's on their sheet as a mandate-for every new patient with acne, they give 6 months of doxy plus a drying antibiotic topical pad or lotion, and then when that doesn't work they move on to minocycline + erythromycin as a topical...and so on.

After killing all the good bacteria, without probiotics and a healthy diet, many people wind up in worse shape than before. Plus they still have the acne, as an insult to injury

Plus, in my opinion, it's irresponsible on a public health scale. The more antibiotics are prescribed, the more bacteria -- not just p. acnes, all other bacteria that would respond to that medicine -- will become resistant. Antibiotic resistance is already a big problem and the reason that penicillin did not become the global cure to illness that it was suspected to -- when they started prescribing it to everyone, resistance developed and new antibiotics had to be introduced. P. acnes resistance developing in the individual is inconvenient, but there are far worse bacteria for which antibiotic resistance is a growing danger, such as staph. Antibiotics should not be prescribed unless the health of the individual is at risk and they become necessary -- for example, if you have an internal bacterial infection (which usually means a fever or severe pain in some area like with a UTI or sinus infection or strep throat), you need antibiotics. Mild acne is a vanity problem, not a health problem, and regularly prescribing long courses of antibiotics for issues of vanity is just irresponsible imo. Healthcare providers should know that, and many GPs are being taught not to prescribe antibiotics unless other courses of action fail because of growing concern about resistance (for example, my last doctor would make me take a round of strong decongestants to clear out a sinus infection, and would only prescribe antibiotics if that didn't help). Derms should follow suit, using them as a last resort for more severe acne and never for mild acne.

[Fox]

Healedanonymous - you're so wrong it's almost humourous, if only other people didn't take your "advice" seriously.

[Jess]

Plus, in my opinion, it's irresponsible on a public health scale. The more antibiotics are prescribed, the more bacteria -- not just p. acnes, all other bacteria that would respond to that medicine -- will become resistant. Antibiotic resistance is already a big problem and the reason that penicillin did not become the global cure to illness that it was suspected to -- when they started prescribing it to everyone, resistance developed and new antibiotics had to be introduced. P. acnes resistance developing in the individual is inconvenient, but there are far worse bacteria for which antibiotic resistance is a growing danger, such as staph. Antibiotics should not be prescribed unless the health of the individual is at risk and they become necessary -- for example, if you have an internal bacterial infection (which usually means a fever or severe pain in some area like with a UTI or sinus infection or strep throat), you need antibiotics. Mild acne is a vanity problem, not a health problem, and regularly prescribing long courses of antibiotics for issues of vanity is just irresponsible imo. Healthcare providers should know that, and many GPs are being taught not to prescribe antibiotics unless other courses of action fail because of growing concern about resistance (for example, my last doctor would make me take a round of strong decongestants to clear out a sinus infection, and would only prescribe antibiotics if that didn't help). Derms should follow suit, using them as a last resort for more severe acne and never for mild acne.

Great post...I learned a lot from it.
The recent staph problem is a real eye-opener.

[maddy001]

I agree with the probiotics...

The protocol derms have (it mystefies me ) is to prescribe round after round of powerful oral antibiotics for mild acne, most of which are ineffective on today's youth. Generations of over-prescribing create another challenging problem... the fact that p.acnes bacteria have become resistant to the majority of prescription meds for acne out there.

Maybe I don't have all the facts, but it seems irresponsible for derms to prescribe young people high doses of doxycycline, tetracycline, and the others. It's on their sheet as a mandate-for every new patient with acne, they give 6 months of doxy plus a drying antibiotic topical pad or lotion, and then when that doesn't work they move on to minocycline + erythromycin as a topical...and so on.

After killing all the good bacteria, without probiotics and a healthy diet, many people wind up in worse shape than before. Plus they still have the acne, as an insult to injury

Plus, in my opinion, it's irresponsible on a public health scale. The more antibiotics are prescribed, the more bacteria -- not just p. acnes, all other bacteria that would respond to that medicine -- will become resistant. Antibiotic resistance is already a big problem and the reason that penicillin did not become the global cure to illness that it was suspected to -- when they started prescribing it to everyone, resistance developed and new antibiotics had to be introduced. P. acnes resistance developing in the individual is inconvenient, but there are far worse bacteria for which antibiotic resistance is a growing danger, such as staph. Antibiotics should not be prescribed unless the health of the individual is at risk and they become necessary -- for example, if you have an internal bacterial infection (which usually means a fever or severe pain in some area like with a UTI or sinus infection or strep throat), you need antibiotics. Mild acne is a vanity problem, not a health problem, and regularly prescribing long courses of antibiotics for issues of vanity is just irresponsible imo. Healthcare providers should know that, and many GPs are being taught not to prescribe antibiotics unless other courses of action fail because of growing concern about resistance (for example, my last doctor would make me take a round of strong decongestants to clear out a sinus infection, and would only prescribe antibiotics if that didn't help). Derms should follow suit, using them as a last resort for more severe acne and never for mild acne.

I beg to differ. Mild acne is not a vanity problem, it can cause low self-esteem which can eventually to psychological problems. It affects people the same way whether you have severe or mild acne. I experienced it myself and I know how mild acne can really affect a person. Sometimes it can be worse then a person with severe acne. Although the thought that antibiotics really harms the body and tip the balance of good and bad bacteria really remains to be seen. Although I agree that it does kill off good bacteria, I doubt that these antibiotics are that potent to actually destroy all. There are actually different levels of antibiotics and tetracyclines actually belong to the lower grades. I think this issue of antibiotics causing serious complications has been overemphasied on these boards.

Also although more antibiotics are created after penicillin, resistance is one of the reasons but I don't think its the main reason. Penicillin is a narrow spectrum antibiotic and it being narrow, means it can only attack a specific class of bacteria. Since there are so many infections cause by different bacteria these days, the development of more antibiotics besides penicillin is needed.

[rommy]

If the moral to your story is that our body's lack good bacteria to fight off the infection, then surely we should look to probiotics - bannanas, yakult, etc.. rather than horse antibiotics. The concept you put forward seems fair enough and as so little is known about acne nyon nothing at least minutely sensible should be dismissed before trying, it's just the consuption of animal medications that worried me.